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Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled leather?

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  • Leslie Cox
    From what I ve found so far, I gather that you can t really make leather white unless it s done during the tanning process - but I m betting some of you in the
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 9, 2008
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      From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
      white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting some of
      you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
      tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
      how?

      I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and they want
      the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
      but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places) could
      possibly render assistance in the matter.

      My thanks in advance -

      Lucy Rose Falconer



      Live the Life you have Imagined
      -- Henry David Thoreau



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Vince Woodard
      I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen.. one is plain
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 9, 2008
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        I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
        probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
        one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum or
        heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
        stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you need
        it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick with
        dye/paint or something like that)
        Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a very
        thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
        this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base piece
        with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
        piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it the
        contrast.
        The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
        the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
        color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and even
        with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point, they
        were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much, but
        will work for a while at least.
        I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to get
        the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit being
        the type of piece you are making.

        Good luck :D

        Vince



        -----Original Message-----
        From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
        Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
        To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
        leather?

        From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
        white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting some of
        you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
        tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
        how?

        I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and they want
        the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
        but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places) could
        possibly render assistance in the matter.

        My thanks in advance -

        Lucy Rose Falconer



        Live the Life you have Imagined
        -- Henry David Thoreau



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Bill Worth
        I have run across this many times  and a Tandy manager gave me a Great idea that I have had good luck with so far.  Acrylic paint  and Latex paint   A 2
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 9, 2008
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          I have run across this many times  and a Tandy manager gave me a Great idea that I have had good luck with so far.
           Acrylic paint  and Latex paint   A 2 to 1 mix
           The acrylic paint will bound with the leather good and the latex allows for more flexibility.
           ***** Warning *****
           
          It May still crack but I have not run into this and it's been 1 yr.
           
           hope it works for you ;-)
           
          Sir William Flanagan
          http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
          The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
          is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.

          --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...> wrote:

          From: Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...>
          Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled leather?
          To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:45 PM

          I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
          probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
          one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum or
          heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
          stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you need
          it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick with
          dye/paint or something like that)
          Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a very
          thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
          this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base piece
          with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
          piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it the
          contrast.
          The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
          the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
          color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and even
          with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point, they
          were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much, but
          will work for a while at least.
          I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to get
          the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit being
          the type of piece you are making.

          Good luck :D

          Vince



          -----Original Message-----
          From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
          Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
          To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
          leather?

          From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
          leather
          white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
          some of
          you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
          tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
          how?

          I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and they
          want
          the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
          but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places) could
          possibly render assistance in the matter.

          My thanks in advance -

          Lucy Rose Falconer



          Live the Life you have Imagined
          -- Henry David Thoreau



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links




          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Leslie Cox
          Sir William - this sounds very possible for these vambraces - so, you re saying twice the amount of acrylic as latex? Unfortunately pinking is not the kind of
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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            Sir William - this sounds very possible for these vambraces - so, you're
            saying twice the amount of acrylic as latex?

            Unfortunately pinking is not the kind of decoration desired, so that
            suggestion won't work for this project. I'll probably test the white shoe
            polish idea as well, but this sounds best for this particular project.

            As most of you know, authentic might be what we *wish* to make, but it's
            generally not what other folks insist we do. I have explained the problem
            of white leather to these folks more than once, but they insist I somehow
            magically make it happen. And since they do this partly because they like
            my work and want me to make them, it is both hard to refuse and hard to
            think of making anything that will be sub-par, if you know what I mean.
            They truly don't know the limitations nor do they wish to. They only know
            they've "seen it done before" or so they say, and don't understand my
            reluctance.

            Ah, well! ;-) Thanks all of you for your suggestions - if there are more
            ideas that haven't shown up yet, I'll still be checking back.

            Thanks much - Lucy Rose


            -----Original Message-----
            From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bill Worth
            Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:10 PM
            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
            tooled leather?


            I have run across this many times and a Tandy manager gave me a Great
            idea that I have had good luck with so far.
            Acrylic paint and Latex paint A 2 to 1 mix
            The acrylic paint will bound with the leather good and the latex allows
            for more flexibility.
            ***** Warning *****

            It May still crack but I have not run into this and it's been 1 yr.

            hope it works for you ;-)

            Sir William Flanagan
            http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
            The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
            is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.

            --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...> wrote:

            From: Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...>
            Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
            tooled leather?
            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:45 PM

            I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
            probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
            one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum or
            heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
            stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you
            need
            it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick with
            dye/paint or something like that)
            Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a
            very
            thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
            this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base piece
            with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
            piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it
            the
            contrast.
            The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
            the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
            color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and
            even
            with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point,
            they
            were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much, but
            will work for a while at least.
            I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to
            get
            the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit being
            the type of piece you are making.

            Good luck :D

            Vince

            -----Original Message-----
            From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
            Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
            leather?

            From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
            leather
            white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
            some of
            you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
            tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
            how?

            I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and they
            want
            the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
            but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places)
            could
            possibly render assistance in the matter.

            My thanks in advance -

            Lucy Rose Falconer

            Live the Life you have Imagined
            -- Henry David Thoreau

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bill Worth
            twice the amount of acrylic as latex....yes    Pinking???    I am Sorry for my lack of education here.  But Are you getting a Pink Tone when you mix the
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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              twice the amount of acrylic as latex....yes
               
               Pinking??? 
                I am Sorry for my lack of education here.  But Are you getting a Pink Tone when you mix the Two?
               
               I used a White Latex and a White Acrylic  and got no Pinkish color.
               If this is not what you mean  then Please explain (no sarcasm here just bad spelling)
               
               It would be cool to do things more authentic but I am not tanning a hide in urine  Blah!!!!!
                 to my understanding  in order to get a authentic white you had to use lime???
                and with my lack of gracefulness  that ain't happening :-)
               
               so I am OK with what modern times gives us.  just if I were to enter it into an A&S for the SCA  I would document the Procedure of how it would have been done.
               
              Bill Worth
              A.K.A.
              Sir William Flanagan
              http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
              The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
              is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.

              --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...> wrote:

              From: Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...>
              Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled leather?
              To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 7:03 AM

              Sir William - this sounds very possible for these vambraces - so, you're
              saying twice the amount of acrylic as latex?

              Unfortunately pinking is not the kind of decoration desired, so that
              suggestion won't work for this project. I'll probably test the white
              shoe
              polish idea as well, but this sounds best for this particular project.

              As most of you know, authentic might be what we *wish* to make, but it's
              generally not what other folks insist we do. I have explained the problem
              of white leather to these folks more than once, but they insist I somehow
              magically make it happen. And since they do this partly because they like
              my work and want me to make them, it is both hard to refuse and hard to
              think of making anything that will be sub-par, if you know what I mean.
              They truly don't know the limitations nor do they wish to. They only know
              they've "seen it done before" or so they say, and don't
              understand my
              reluctance.

              Ah, well! ;-) Thanks all of you for your suggestions - if there are more
              ideas that haven't shown up yet, I'll still be checking back.

              Thanks much - Lucy Rose


              -----Original Message-----
              From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Bill Worth
              Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:10 PM
              To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
              tooled leather?


              I have run across this many times and a Tandy manager gave me a Great
              idea that I have had good luck with so far.
              Acrylic paint and Latex paint A 2 to 1 mix
              The acrylic paint will bound with the leather good and the latex allows
              for more flexibility.
              ***** Warning *****

              It May still crack but I have not run into this and it's been 1 yr.

              hope it works for you ;-)

              Sir William Flanagan
              http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
              The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
              is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.

              --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...> wrote:

              From: Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...>
              Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
              tooled leather?
              To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:45 PM

              I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
              probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
              one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum or
              heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
              stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you
              need
              it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick with
              dye/paint or something like that)
              Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a
              very
              thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
              this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base piece
              with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
              piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it
              the
              contrast.
              The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
              the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
              color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and
              even
              with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point,
              they
              were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much, but
              will work for a while at least.
              I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to
              get
              the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit being
              the type of piece you are making.

              Good luck :D

              Vince

              -----Original Message-----
              From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
              Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
              To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
              leather?

              From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
              leather
              white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
              some of
              you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
              tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
              how?

              I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and
              they
              want
              the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
              but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places)
              could
              possibly render assistance in the matter.

              My thanks in advance -

              Lucy Rose Falconer

              Live the Life you have Imagined
              -- Henry David Thoreau

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Leslie Cox
              Bill - by pinking I meant to refer to the cutting/slashing of leather that was suggested by another person - there s a better name for that, I think, but
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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                Bill - by "pinking" I meant to refer to the cutting/slashing of leather that
                was suggested by another person - there's a better name for that, I think,
                but right now my brain refuses to tell me what it is. I've seen some nice
                white belts done with cutouts &/or slashing techniques, by the way. But I'm
                being asked to carve a specific design here, so that won't work for this
                project.

                So, no reference was meant to what you suggested at all on *that* part of my
                reply. Sorry for the confusion, that's what I get for writing before I've
                had my morning tea...

                -- Smiles, Lucy Rose/Leslie

                On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Bill Worth <sirflanagn@...> wrote:

                > twice the amount of acrylic as latex....yes
                >
                > Pinking???
                > I am Sorry for my lack of education here. But Are you getting a Pink
                > Tone when you mix the Two?
                >
                > I used a White Latex and a White Acrylic and got no Pinkish color.
                > If this is not what you mean then Please explain (no sarcasm here just
                > bad spelling)
                >
                > It would be cool to do things more authentic but I am not tanning a hide
                > in urine Blah!!!!!
                > to my understanding in order to get a authentic white you had to use
                > lime???
                > and with my lack of gracefulness that ain't happening :-)
                >
                > so I am OK with what modern times gives us. just if I were to enter it
                > into an A&S for the SCA I would document the Procedure of how it would have
                > been done.
                >
                > Bill Worth
                > A.K.A.
                > Sir William Flanagan
                > http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                > The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                > is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.
                >
                > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...<lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>>
                > wrote:
                >
                > From: Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...<lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>>
                >
                > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                > tooled leather?
                > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 7:03 AM
                >
                >
                > Sir William - this sounds very possible for these vambraces - so, you're
                > saying twice the amount of acrylic as latex?
                >
                > Unfortunately pinking is not the kind of decoration desired, so that
                > suggestion won't work for this project. I'll probably test the white
                > shoe
                > polish idea as well, but this sounds best for this particular project.
                >
                > As most of you know, authentic might be what we *wish* to make, but it's
                > generally not what other folks insist we do. I have explained the problem
                > of white leather to these folks more than once, but they insist I somehow
                > magically make it happen. And since they do this partly because they like
                > my work and want me to make them, it is both hard to refuse and hard to
                > think of making anything that will be sub-par, if you know what I mean.
                > They truly don't know the limitations nor do they wish to. They only know
                > they've "seen it done before" or so they say, and don't
                > understand my
                > reluctance.
                >
                > Ah, well! ;-) Thanks all of you for your suggestions - if there are more
                > ideas that haven't shown up yet, I'll still be checking back.
                >
                > Thanks much - Lucy Rose
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                > [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>]On
                > Behalf Of Bill Worth
                > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:10 PM
                > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                > tooled leather?
                >
                > I have run across this many times and a Tandy manager gave me a Great
                > idea that I have had good luck with so far.
                > Acrylic paint and Latex paint A 2 to 1 mix
                > The acrylic paint will bound with the leather good and the latex allows
                > for more flexibility.
                > ***** Warning *****
                >
                > It May still crack but I have not run into this and it's been 1 yr.
                >
                > hope it works for you ;-)
                >
                > Sir William Flanagan
                > http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                > The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                > is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.
                >
                > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...<vwoodard%40comcast.net>>
                > wrote:
                >
                > From: Vince Woodard <vwoodard@... <vwoodard%40comcast.net>>
                > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                > tooled leather?
                > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:45 PM
                >
                > I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
                > probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
                > one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum or
                > heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
                > stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you
                > need
                > it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick with
                > dye/paint or something like that)
                > Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a
                > very
                > thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
                > this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base piece
                > with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
                > piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it
                > the
                > contrast.
                > The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
                > the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
                > color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and
                > even
                > with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point,
                > they
                > were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much, but
                > will work for a while at least.
                > I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to
                > get
                > the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit being
                > the type of piece you are making.
                >
                > Good luck :D
                >
                > Vince
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                > [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>]
                > On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
                > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
                > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
                > leather?
                >
                > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
                > leather
                > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                > some of
                > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
                > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
                > how?
                >
                > I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and
                > they
                > want
                > the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
                > but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places)
                > could
                > possibly render assistance in the matter.
                >
                > My thanks in advance -
                >
                > Lucy Rose Falconer
                >
                > Live the Life you have Imagined
                > -- Henry David Thoreau
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Fraser Crowe
                Exactly, the same as pinking shears. Herluin ... -- Man has tried his suicide with bigotry and hate. But in the end he ll kill himself with nothing but his
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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                  Exactly, the same as pinking shears.

                  Herluin

                  On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...>wrote:

                  > Bill - by "pinking" I meant to refer to the cutting/slashing of leather
                  > that
                  > was suggested by another person - there's a better name for that, I think,
                  > but right now my brain refuses to tell me what it is. I've seen some nice
                  > white belts done with cutouts &/or slashing techniques, by the way. But I'm
                  > being asked to carve a specific design here, so that won't work for this
                  > project.
                  >
                  > So, no reference was meant to what you suggested at all on *that* part of
                  > my
                  > reply. Sorry for the confusion, that's what I get for writing before I've
                  > had my morning tea...
                  >
                  > -- Smiles, Lucy Rose/Leslie
                  >
                  > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Bill Worth <sirflanagn@...<sirflanagn%40yahoo.com>>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > twice the amount of acrylic as latex....yes
                  > >
                  > > Pinking???
                  > > I am Sorry for my lack of education here. But Are you getting a Pink
                  > > Tone when you mix the Two?
                  > >
                  > > I used a White Latex and a White Acrylic and got no Pinkish color.
                  > > If this is not what you mean then Please explain (no sarcasm here just
                  > > bad spelling)
                  > >
                  > > It would be cool to do things more authentic but I am not tanning a hide
                  > > in urine Blah!!!!!
                  > > to my understanding in order to get a authentic white you had to use
                  > > lime???
                  > > and with my lack of gracefulness that ain't happening :-)
                  > >
                  > > so I am OK with what modern times gives us. just if I were to enter it
                  > > into an A&S for the SCA I would document the Procedure of how it would
                  > have
                  > > been done.
                  > >
                  > > Bill Worth
                  > > A.K.A.
                  > > Sir William Flanagan
                  > > http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                  > > The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                  > > is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.
                  > >
                  > > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...<lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>
                  > <lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>>
                  > > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > From: Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...<lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>
                  > <lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>>
                  > >
                  > > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                  > > tooled leather?
                  > > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com><medieval-leather%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 7:03 AM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Sir William - this sounds very possible for these vambraces - so, you're
                  > > saying twice the amount of acrylic as latex?
                  > >
                  > > Unfortunately pinking is not the kind of decoration desired, so that
                  > > suggestion won't work for this project. I'll probably test the white
                  > > shoe
                  > > polish idea as well, but this sounds best for this particular project.
                  > >
                  > > As most of you know, authentic might be what we *wish* to make, but it's
                  > > generally not what other folks insist we do. I have explained the problem
                  > > of white leather to these folks more than once, but they insist I somehow
                  > > magically make it happen. And since they do this partly because they like
                  > > my work and want me to make them, it is both hard to refuse and hard to
                  > > think of making anything that will be sub-par, if you know what I mean.
                  > > They truly don't know the limitations nor do they wish to. They only know
                  > > they've "seen it done before" or so they say, and don't
                  > > understand my
                  > > reluctance.
                  > >
                  > > Ah, well! ;-) Thanks all of you for your suggestions - if there are more
                  > > ideas that haven't shown up yet, I'll still be checking back.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks much - Lucy Rose
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>]On
                  > > Behalf Of Bill Worth
                  > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:10 PM
                  > > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com><medieval-leather%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                  > > tooled leather?
                  > >
                  > > I have run across this many times and a Tandy manager gave me a Great
                  > > idea that I have had good luck with so far.
                  > > Acrylic paint and Latex paint A 2 to 1 mix
                  > > The acrylic paint will bound with the leather good and the latex allows
                  > > for more flexibility.
                  > > ***** Warning *****
                  > >
                  > > It May still crack but I have not run into this and it's been 1 yr.
                  > >
                  > > hope it works for you ;-)
                  > >
                  > > Sir William Flanagan
                  > > http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                  > > The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                  > > is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.
                  > >
                  > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...<vwoodard%40comcast.net>
                  > <vwoodard%40comcast.net>>
                  > > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > From: Vince Woodard <vwoodard@... <vwoodard%40comcast.net><vwoodard%
                  > 40comcast.net>>
                  > > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                  > > tooled leather?
                  > > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com><medieval-leather%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  >
                  > > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:45 PM
                  > >
                  > > I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
                  > > probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
                  > > one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum
                  > or
                  > > heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
                  > > stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you
                  > > need
                  > > it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick
                  > with
                  > > dye/paint or something like that)
                  > > Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a
                  > > very
                  > > thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
                  > > this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base
                  > piece
                  > > with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
                  > > piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it
                  > > the
                  > > contrast.
                  > > The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
                  > > the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
                  > > color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and
                  > > even
                  > > with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point,
                  > > they
                  > > were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much, but
                  > > will work for a while at least.
                  > > I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to
                  > > get
                  > > the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit
                  > being
                  > > the type of piece you are making.
                  > >
                  > > Good luck :D
                  > >
                  > > Vince
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>]
                  > > On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
                  > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
                  > > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com><medieval-leather%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
                  > > leather?
                  > >
                  > > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
                  > > leather
                  > > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                  > > some of
                  > > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
                  > > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
                  > > how?
                  > >
                  > > I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and
                  > > they
                  > > want
                  > > the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
                  > > but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places)
                  > > could
                  > > possibly render assistance in the matter.
                  > >
                  > > My thanks in advance -
                  > >
                  > > Lucy Rose Falconer
                  > >
                  > > Live the Life you have Imagined
                  > > -- Henry David Thoreau
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Man has tried his suicide
                  with bigotry and hate.
                  But in the end he'll kill himself
                  with nothing but his waste,
                  and the trees are all gone.
                  ~ Roger McGuinn


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bill Worth
                  Ahhh  Well cool  I learned another Term     Thank you  Bill Worth A.K.A. Sir William Flanagan http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight The reason
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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                    Ahhh  Well cool  I learned another Term 
                       Thank you 


                    Bill Worth
                    A.K.A.
                    Sir William Flanagan
                    http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                    The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                    is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.

                    --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...> wrote:

                    From: Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...>
                    Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled leather?
                    To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 12:39 PM

                    Bill - by "pinking" I meant to refer to the cutting/slashing of
                    leather that
                    was suggested by another person - there's a better name for that, I think,
                    but right now my brain refuses to tell me what it is. I've seen some nice
                    white belts done with cutouts &/or slashing techniques, by the way. But
                    I'm
                    being asked to carve a specific design here, so that won't work for this
                    project.

                    So, no reference was meant to what you suggested at all on *that* part of my
                    reply. Sorry for the confusion, that's what I get for writing before
                    I've
                    had my morning tea...

                    -- Smiles, Lucy Rose/Leslie

                    On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Bill Worth <sirflanagn@...> wrote:

                    > twice the amount of acrylic as latex....yes
                    >
                    > Pinking???
                    > I am Sorry for my lack of education here. But Are you getting a Pink
                    > Tone when you mix the Two?
                    >
                    > I used a White Latex and a White Acrylic and got no Pinkish color.
                    > If this is not what you mean then Please explain (no sarcasm here just
                    > bad spelling)
                    >
                    > It would be cool to do things more authentic but I am not tanning a hide
                    > in urine Blah!!!!!
                    > to my understanding in order to get a authentic white you had to use
                    > lime???
                    > and with my lack of gracefulness that ain't happening :-)
                    >
                    > so I am OK with what modern times gives us. just if I were to enter it
                    > into an A&S for the SCA I would document the Procedure of how it
                    would have
                    > been done.
                    >
                    > Bill Worth
                    > A.K.A.
                    > Sir William Flanagan
                    > http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                    > The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                    > is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.
                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Leslie Cox
                    <lucyrosefalconer@...<lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Leslie Cox
                    <lucyrosefalconer@...<lucyrosefalconer%40gmail.com>>
                    >
                    > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                    > tooled leather?
                    > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 7:03 AM
                    >
                    >
                    > Sir William - this sounds very possible for these vambraces - so,
                    you're
                    > saying twice the amount of acrylic as latex?
                    >
                    > Unfortunately pinking is not the kind of decoration desired, so that
                    > suggestion won't work for this project. I'll probably test the
                    white
                    > shoe
                    > polish idea as well, but this sounds best for this particular project.
                    >
                    > As most of you know, authentic might be what we *wish* to make, but
                    it's
                    > generally not what other folks insist we do. I have explained the problem
                    > of white leather to these folks more than once, but they insist I somehow
                    > magically make it happen. And since they do this partly because they like
                    > my work and want me to make them, it is both hard to refuse and hard to
                    > think of making anything that will be sub-par, if you know what I mean.
                    > They truly don't know the limitations nor do they wish to. They only
                    know
                    > they've "seen it done before" or so they say, and don't
                    > understand my
                    > reluctance.
                    >
                    > Ah, well! ;-) Thanks all of you for your suggestions - if there are more
                    > ideas that haven't shown up yet, I'll still be checking back.
                    >
                    > Thanks much - Lucy Rose
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From:
                    medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >
                    [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>]On
                    > Behalf Of Bill Worth
                    > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:10 PM
                    > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                    > tooled leather?
                    >
                    > I have run across this many times and a Tandy manager gave me a Great
                    > idea that I have had good luck with so far.
                    > Acrylic paint and Latex paint A 2 to 1 mix
                    > The acrylic paint will bound with the leather good and the latex allows
                    > for more flexibility.
                    > ***** Warning *****
                    >
                    > It May still crack but I have not run into this and it's been 1 yr.
                    >
                    > hope it works for you ;-)
                    >
                    > Sir William Flanagan
                    > http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                    > The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                    > is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.
                    >
                    > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Vince Woodard
                    <vwoodard@...<vwoodard%40comcast.net>>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Vince Woodard <vwoodard@...
                    <vwoodard%40comcast.net>>
                    > Subject: RE: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white,
                    > tooled leather?
                    > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:45 PM
                    >
                    > I have seen tooled white, but its usually not very authentic. There are
                    > probably many ways to do it, but a couple of ways that I have seen..
                    > one is plain incising work (cut work). Make it from white leather (alum or
                    > heavy chrome tan probably...) incise the design, and open it up with a
                    > stylus of some sort. When it bends, the design will show up ok. If you
                    > need
                    > it to stand out, use something to color down in the lines (tooth pick with
                    > dye/paint or something like that)
                    > Another I have seen is do the base out of heavier white, and then get a
                    > very
                    > thin leather that you can do cut work all the way thru it (in metal work
                    > this would be referred to as pierce work). Then apply it to the base piece
                    > with glue/stitching. To make it really stand out, you could sandwich a
                    > piece of another lightweight darker color between the layers to give it
                    > the
                    > contrast.
                    > The other method I have seen is to do the design work in veg tan, tool it
                    > the way you want, curve it, then use an acrylic paint (or shoe polish to
                    > color it). I have done the last method out of desperation one time, and
                    > even
                    > with warning them the white coating would probably crack at some point,
                    > they
                    > were happy. This method is best on flat pieces that don't bend much,
                    but
                    > will work for a while at least.
                    > I have never done it, but I believe that pipeclay could also be used to
                    > get
                    > the white coating, although it will probably rub off on things a bit being
                    > the type of piece you are making.
                    >
                    > Good luck :D
                    >
                    > Vince
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From:
                    medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >
                    [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>]
                    > On Behalf Of Leslie Cox
                    > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:18 PM
                    > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: [medieval-leather] Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled
                    > leather?
                    >
                    > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
                    > leather
                    > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm
                    betting
                    > some of
                    > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
                    > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
                    > how?
                    >
                    > I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and
                    > they
                    > want
                    > the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is
                    problematic,
                    > but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places)
                    > could
                    > possibly render assistance in the matter.
                    >
                    > My thanks in advance -
                    >
                    > Lucy Rose Falconer
                    >
                    > Live the Life you have Imagined
                    > -- Henry David Thoreau
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ron Charlotte
                    ... For functional pieces that will get typical re-enactor abuse, the toughest white or other colored coating I ve found has been to get the acrylic artists
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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                      At 09:17 PM 11/9/2008, you wrote:
                      > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
                      >white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting some of
                      >you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting them
                      >tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion? If so,
                      >how?
                      >
                      >I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and they want
                      >the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is problematic,
                      >but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other places) could
                      >possibly render assistance in the matter.
                      >
                      >My thanks in advance -
                      >
                      >Lucy Rose Falconer

                      For functional pieces that will get typical re-enactor abuse, the
                      toughest white or other colored coating I've found has been to get
                      the acrylic artists pigment (Not the paint; the _pigment_. I've been
                      using the Folkart brand for this, but any quality acrylic pigment
                      will work), and dilute it with the acrylic leather finish (super
                      sheen or satin sheen) to the consistency of medium to heavy
                      cream. It takes about 2 -3 good coats, and bonds down into tooling well.

                      I've been using this trick for yellow and white belts for awhile now,
                      and it wears like iron. I've done white oil pigment in a linseed
                      sealer for a more historically accurate version, but it doesn't stand
                      up to constant wear, and armor staining anywhere as well.


                      Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                      ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                    • Chris Nickel
                      ... leather ... betting some of ... wanting them ... If so, ... they want ... problematic, ... places) could ... been ... well. ... now, ... stand ... Tandy
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 10, 2008
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                        --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Ron Charlotte <ronch2@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > At 09:17 PM 11/9/2008, you wrote:
                        > > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
                        leather
                        > >white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm
                        betting some of
                        > >you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and
                        wanting them
                        > >tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                        If so,
                        > >how?
                        > >
                        > >I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and
                        they want
                        > >the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is
                        problematic,
                        > >but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other
                        places) could
                        > >possibly render assistance in the matter.
                        > >
                        > >My thanks in advance -
                        > >
                        > >Lucy Rose Falconer
                        >
                        > For functional pieces that will get typical re-enactor abuse, the
                        > toughest white or other colored coating I've found has been to get
                        > the acrylic artists pigment (Not the paint; the _pigment_. I've
                        been
                        > using the Folkart brand for this, but any quality acrylic pigment
                        > will work), and dilute it with the acrylic leather finish (super
                        > sheen or satin sheen) to the consistency of medium to heavy
                        > cream. It takes about 2 -3 good coats, and bonds down into tooling
                        well.
                        >
                        > I've been using this trick for yellow and white belts for awhile
                        now,
                        > and it wears like iron. I've done white oil pigment in a linseed
                        > sealer for a more historically accurate version, but it doesn't
                        stand
                        > up to constant wear, and armor staining anywhere as well.
                        >
                        >
                        > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                        > ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                        >

                        Tandy has just recently come out with a white leather paint that is
                        specifically designed for belts and such.
                        I'm told it is more flexible than the older stuff they sell.
                        It's called Eco-Flo, and I have had better luck with it than the old
                        Kova stuff.
                        -Erich
                      • William Hicks
                        Well, this has been very educational....  lotsa good ideas and things to try, but I have one more questions:   How of you get mustard out of white
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 11, 2008
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                          Well, this has been very educational....  lotsa good ideas and things to try, but I have one more questions:
                           
                          How of you get mustard out of white leather??????   Gotta love those giant prezels and msutard dips at the Ren Fest....hehehe
                           
                          I could never wear white anything...  As soon as I put it on, I get somehting on it and it aint white no more!

                          William

                          --- On Mon, 11/10/08, Chris Nickel <cnickel1@...> wrote:

                          From: Chris Nickel <cnickel1@...>
                          Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled leather?
                          To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 5:31 PM






                          --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com, Ron Charlotte <ronch2@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > At 09:17 PM 11/9/2008, you wrote:
                          > > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
                          leather
                          > >white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm
                          betting some of
                          > >you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and
                          wanting them
                          > >tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                          If so,
                          > >how?
                          > >
                          > >I'm being requested to create archer's vambraces for someone, and
                          they want
                          > >the basic color to be white. I've advised them that this is
                          problematic,
                          > >but told them I would see if anyone on this list (among other
                          places) could
                          > >possibly render assistance in the matter.
                          > >
                          > >My thanks in advance -
                          > >
                          > >Lucy Rose Falconer
                          >
                          > For functional pieces that will get typical re-enactor abuse, the
                          > toughest white or other colored coating I've found has been to get
                          > the acrylic artists pigment (Not the paint; the _pigment_. I've
                          been
                          > using the Folkart brand for this, but any quality acrylic pigment
                          > will work), and dilute it with the acrylic leather finish (super
                          > sheen or satin sheen) to the consistency of medium to heavy
                          > cream. It takes about 2 -3 good coats, and bonds down into tooling
                          well.
                          >
                          > I've been using this trick for yellow and white belts for awhile
                          now,
                          > and it wears like iron. I've done white oil pigment in a linseed
                          > sealer for a more historically accurate version, but it doesn't
                          stand
                          > up to constant wear, and armor staining anywhere as well.
                          >
                          >
                          > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                          > ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                          >

                          Tandy has just recently come out with a white leather paint that is
                          specifically designed for belts and such.
                          I'm told it is more flexible than the older stuff they sell.
                          It's called Eco-Flo, and I have had better luck with it than the old
                          Kova stuff.
                          -Erich


















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ron Charlotte
                          ... True, it does actually work quite well, but quite frankly, for covering large expanses, adding pigment to the acrylic finish has turned out to be _very_
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 11, 2008
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                            At 06:31 PM 11/10/2008, you wrote:
                            >Tandy has just recently come out with a white leather paint that is
                            >specifically designed for belts and such.
                            >I'm told it is more flexible than the older stuff they sell.
                            >It's called Eco-Flo, and I have had better luck with it than the old
                            >Kova stuff.
                            >-Erich


                            True, it does actually work quite well, but quite frankly, for
                            covering large expanses, adding pigment to the acrylic finish has
                            turned out to be _very_ economical. One tube of the pigment is about
                            $2 and will produce enough colored sealer to cover a full hide worth
                            of belts. Plus, I've found that the available colors are a much wider range.


                            Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                            ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                          • Ron Charlotte
                            ... Hmmm, that s a tough one. You can try saddle soap, Lexol, or Dr. Jackson. Mustard is tough because the vinegar that is in the base of it helps make it
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 11, 2008
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                              At 10:11 AM 11/11/2008, William wrote:
                              >How of you get mustard out of white leather?????? Gotta love those
                              >giant prezels and msutard dips at the Ren Fest....hehehe
                              >
                              >I could never wear white anything... As soon as I put it on, I get
                              >somehting on it and it aint white no more!

                              Hmmm, that's a tough one. You can try saddle soap, Lexol, or Dr.
                              Jackson. Mustard is tough because the vinegar that is in the base of
                              it helps make it penetrate a lot of sealers.

                              If the leather was well sealed, the saddle soap will probably do the trick.


                              Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                              ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                            • beanmaestro
                              I got a sample of Siegel of CA s alum tawed leather and gave it a test carve. It incised, beveled, and backgrounded just like veg, maybe even a little better.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 12, 2008
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                                I got a sample of Siegel of CA's alum tawed leather and gave it a test
                                carve. It incised, beveled, and backgrounded just like veg, maybe
                                even a little better. The part that worried me was that the light
                                casing I gave it changed the shade ever so slightly toward yellow...
                                but what an untimely rain would do? That, and I don't have enough
                                knights ordering belts to justify a $120 hide.

                                Jon/Todde

                                --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Cox"
                                <lucyrosefalconer@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
                                > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                                some of
                                > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting
                                them
                                > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                                If so,
                                > how?
                              • Fraser Crowe
                                Alum-tawed? Is that as close to real buff leather as I think it might be? Herluin of Falaise ... -- Man has tried his suicide with bigotry and hate. But in the
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 12, 2008
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                                  Alum-tawed? Is that as close to real buff leather as I think it might be?

                                  Herluin of Falaise

                                  On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:19 PM, beanmaestro <dr.mrow@...> wrote:

                                  > I got a sample of Siegel of CA's alum tawed leather and gave it a test
                                  > carve. It incised, beveled, and backgrounded just like veg, maybe
                                  > even a little better. The part that worried me was that the light
                                  > casing I gave it changed the shade ever so slightly toward yellow...
                                  > but what an untimely rain would do? That, and I don't have enough
                                  > knights ordering belts to justify a $120 hide.
                                  >
                                  > Jon/Todde
                                  >
                                  > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > "Leslie Cox"
                                  > <lucyrosefalconer@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
                                  > > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                                  > some of
                                  > > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting
                                  > them
                                  > > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                                  > If so,
                                  > > how?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  --
                                  Man has tried his suicide
                                  with bigotry and hate.
                                  But in the end he'll kill himself
                                  with nothing but his waste,
                                  and the trees are all gone.
                                  ~ Roger McGuinn


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • beanmaestro
                                  ... might be? ... I can tell you that it s true white, and very stiff for its thickness (about 7oz on the sample I got). Jon ... a test ...
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 13, 2008
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                                    --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Fraser Crowe"
                                    <fraser.crowe@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Alum-tawed? Is that as close to real buff leather as I think it
                                    might be?
                                    >
                                    > Herluin of Falaise

                                    I can tell you that it's true white, and very stiff for its thickness
                                    (about 7oz on the sample I got).

                                    Jon

                                    >
                                    > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:19 PM, beanmaestro <dr.mrow@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I got a sample of Siegel of CA's alum tawed leather and gave it
                                    a test
                                    > > carve. It incised, beveled, and backgrounded just like veg, maybe
                                    > > even a little better. The part that worried me was that the light
                                    > > casing I gave it changed the shade ever so slightly toward yellow...
                                    > > but what an untimely rain would do? That, and I don't have enough
                                    > > knights ordering belts to justify a $120 hide.
                                    > >
                                    > > Jon/Todde
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In
                                    medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > > "Leslie Cox"
                                    > > <lucyrosefalconer@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make
                                    leather
                                    > > > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                                    > > some of
                                    > > > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting
                                    > > them
                                    > > > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                                    > > If so,
                                    > > > how?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Man has tried his suicide
                                    > with bigotry and hate.
                                    > But in the end he'll kill himself
                                    > with nothing but his waste,
                                    > and the trees are all gone.
                                    > ~ Roger McGuinn
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Colin
                                    What I ve heard of tawed leather is that water will wash the alum out of it, turning it back into rawhide. I d guess that is why it s going a bit yellow,
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 13, 2008
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                                      What I've heard of tawed leather is that water will wash the alum out of it, turning it back into rawhide. I'd guess that is why it's going a bit yellow, starting to turn back to rawhide.

                                      I know that there are Medieval records of white shoes, which I'm guessing to be tawed. They must have found some way to stop the water destroying them to use them as shoes.

                                      Colin

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: beanmaestro
                                      To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:19 PM
                                      Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Q re: best possible way to have white, tooled leather?


                                      I got a sample of Siegel of CA's alum tawed leather and gave it a test
                                      carve. It incised, beveled, and backgrounded just like veg, maybe
                                      even a little better. The part that worried me was that the light
                                      casing I gave it changed the shade ever so slightly toward yellow...
                                      but what an untimely rain would do? That, and I don't have enough
                                      knights ordering belts to justify a $120 hide.

                                      Jon/Todde

                                      --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Cox"
                                      <lucyrosefalconer@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
                                      > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                                      some of
                                      > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting
                                      them
                                      > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                                      If so,
                                      > how?






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                                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      Checked by AVG.
                                      Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1785 - Release Date: 13/11/2008 09:12


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Ron Charlotte
                                      ... No, Buff is a chamois (oil oxidation) process done on a heavier grade of leather. Some versions were alum tanned then finished with the oil tannage. The
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Nov 13, 2008
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                                        At 11:16 PM 11/12/2008, you wrote:
                                        >Alum-tawed? Is that as close to real buff leather as I think it might be?
                                        >
                                        >Herluin of Falaise

                                        No, "Buff" is a chamois (oil oxidation) process done on a heavier
                                        grade of leather. Some versions were alum tanned then finished with
                                        the oil tannage.

                                        The alum is more along the line of a big chunk of the common leather
                                        (because the process is much faster than veg-tanning). Won't take
                                        thorough wetting, though.


                                        Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                                        ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                                      • Vince Woodard
                                        I would bet that the white shoe leather (needing to be soft and supple) was probably (latigo d) or had tallows of some sort worked into it which would keep the
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Nov 13, 2008
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                                          I would bet that the white shoe leather (needing to be soft and supple) was
                                          probably (latigo'd) or had tallows of some sort worked into it which would
                                          keep the leather a little more water resistant, and keep the alum in it?
                                          Would have to do some digging on that one though (Marc Carlson would be a
                                          good source for that question...
                                          http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/TYPE.HTM )

                                          Vince

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                                          [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin
                                          Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 16:33
                                          To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Q re: best possible way to have white,
                                          tooled leather?

                                          What I've heard of tawed leather is that water will wash the alum out of it,
                                          turning it back into rawhide. I'd guess that is why it's going a bit yellow,
                                          starting to turn back to rawhide.

                                          I know that there are Medieval records of white shoes, which I'm guessing to
                                          be tawed. They must have found some way to stop the water destroying them to
                                          use them as shoes.

                                          Colin

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: beanmaestro
                                          To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:19 PM
                                          Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Q re: best possible way to have white,
                                          tooled leather?


                                          I got a sample of Siegel of CA's alum tawed leather and gave it a test
                                          carve. It incised, beveled, and backgrounded just like veg, maybe
                                          even a little better. The part that worried me was that the light
                                          casing I gave it changed the shade ever so slightly toward yellow...
                                          but what an untimely rain would do? That, and I don't have enough
                                          knights ordering belts to justify a $120 hide.

                                          Jon/Todde

                                          --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Leslie Cox"
                                          <lucyrosefalconer@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From what I've found so far, I gather that you can't really make leather
                                          > white unless it's done during the tanning process - but I'm betting
                                          some of
                                          > you in the SCA have dealt with folks needing white belts and wanting
                                          them
                                          > tooled also - is this possible to do in a decent quality fashion?
                                          If so,
                                          > how?






                                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          --


                                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          Checked by AVG.
                                          Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1785 - Release Date: 13/11/2008
                                          09:12


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                                          ------------------------------------

                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        • William Hicks
                                          I know a few of you out there attend and sell at the TRF.  I will be visiting tomorrow so if you would liek me to stop by your shop and say hi, reply here or
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Nov 14, 2008
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                                            I know a few of you out there attend and sell at the TRF.  I will be visiting tomorrow so if you would liek me to stop by your shop and say hi, reply here or call my cell and give me your shop number or name,
                                             
                                            I will be wearing my viking outfit, complete with my handmade leather turnboots, belt, poouches, mug and hat!
                                             
                                            Hope to meet a few of you tomorrow!

                                            William Hicks
                                            713-498-7724 (cell)
                                            My FaceBook profile
                                            My Etsy Store
                                            Leatherworker.net



















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