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Silly Question

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  • Chris
    But here it is anyway... Is there a definitive must have list of books on this group? I ve been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
      But here it is anyway...
      Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
      I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
      exist..

      if it dosent we should make one!
      After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
      Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or anything
      like that...

      Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least 'must photo-copy'
      parts books?

      just an Idea

      and BTW migh anyone know who wrote "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
      Scabbards" and perhaps ISBN#?

      Æiric
    • Karl Christensen
      Greetings, Aeric. My opinion is, is that you need whatever books suits what you need at the time. Shoes & Patterns ( Medieval finds from excavations in
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
        Greetings, Aeric. My opinion is, is that you need
        whatever books suits what you need at the time. "Shoes
        & Patterns" ( Medieval finds from excavations in
        London), Auth., Francis Grew & Margreth DeNeergaard.
        And "Knives & Scabbards", Auth., J. Cowgill & M.
        DeNeergaard. Both good books, would recommend any
        leatherwerker have them in their library.
        konr
        --- Chris <cslemke2000@...> wrote:

        > But here it is anyway...
        > Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on
        > this group?
        > I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if
        > it does indeed
        > exist..
        >
        > if it dosent we should make one!
        > After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens"
        > and "Knives and
        > Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or
        > ISBN # or anything
        > like that...
        >
        > Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least
        > 'must photo-copy'
        > parts books?
        >
        > just an Idea
        >
        > and BTW migh anyone know who wrote "Shoes and
        > Pattens" and "Knives and
        > Scabbards" and perhaps ISBN#?
        >
        > Æiric
        >
        >



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
        http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
      • Brian macTomais
        Shoes and Pattens on Amazon via tinyurl (to give you all the info you requested on these specific books): http://tinyurl.com/4ew5jm Knives and Scabbards on
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
          Shoes and Pattens on Amazon via tinyurl (to give you all the info you
          requested on these specific books):

          http://tinyurl.com/4ew5jm

          Knives and Scabbards on Amazon via tinyurl:

          http://tinyurl.com/3gsx7a

          Other books that are really nice generally speaking are:

          Nearly anything by John W. Waterer (Leather and the Warrior, Leather
          and Craftsmanship, and Leather Craftsmanship) but most are hard to
          get.
          Craft, Industry and Everyday Life: Leather and Leatherworking in
          Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York by Quita Mould, et al. (amazon
          tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/6jmvuk )
          Black Jacks and Leather Bottrells by Oliver Baker

          and if you really want an exhaustive Biblio I would also look at:

          for shoes: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOEBIBL.HTM
          General Leather working:
          http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/bibl.html

          Brian

          On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Chris <cslemke2000@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > But here it is anyway...
          > Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
          > I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
          > exist..
          >
          > if it dosent we should make one!
          > After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
          > Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or anything
          > like that...
          >
          > Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least 'must photo-copy'
          > parts books?
          >
          > just an Idea
          >
          > and BTW migh anyone know who wrote "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
          > Scabbards" and perhaps ISBN#?
          >
          > Æiric
          >
          >



          --
          Ex pertinacia pulchritudo
          From determination, beauty
        • Colin
          I don t know the authors off of the top of my head, but they are part of the Museum of London series and you should be able to find them on Amazon really
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
            I don't know the authors off of the top of my head, but they are part of the Museum of London series and you should be able to find them on Amazon really easily (use the .co.uk one if you're having problems finding them) and you can get the details from there.

            Colin

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Chris
            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:30 PM
            Subject: [medieval-leather] Silly Question


            But here it is anyway...
            Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
            I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
            exist..

            if it dosent we should make one!
            After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
            Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or anything
            like that...

            Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least 'must photo-copy'
            parts books?

            just an Idea

            and BTW migh anyone know who wrote "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
            Scabbards" and perhaps ISBN#?

            Æiric






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          • Chris
            Thank you! thank you very much. Æiric ... you ... carlson/shoe/SHOEBIBL.HTM ... indeed ... and ... anything ... copy ... and Knives and
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
              Thank you! thank you very much.

              Æiric

              > Shoes and Pattens on Amazon via tinyurl (to give you all the info
              you
              > requested on these specific books):
              >
              > http://tinyurl.com/4ew5jm
              >
              > Knives and Scabbards on Amazon via tinyurl:
              >
              > http://tinyurl.com/3gsx7a
              >
              > Other books that are really nice generally speaking are:
              >
              > Nearly anything by John W. Waterer (Leather and the Warrior, Leather
              > and Craftsmanship, and Leather Craftsmanship) but most are hard to
              > get.
              > Craft, Industry and Everyday Life: Leather and Leatherworking in
              > Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York by Quita Mould, et al. (amazon
              > tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/6jmvuk )
              > Black Jacks and Leather Bottrells by Oliver Baker
              >
              > and if you really want an exhaustive Biblio I would also look at:
              >
              > for shoes: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-
              carlson/shoe/SHOEBIBL.HTM
              > General Leather working:
              > http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/bibl.html
              >
              > Brian
              >
              > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Chris <cslemke2000@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > But here it is anyway...
              > > Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
              > > I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does
              indeed
              > > exist..
              > >
              > > if it dosent we should make one!
              > > After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives
              and
              > > Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or
              anything
              > > like that...
              > >
              > > Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least 'must photo-
              copy'
              > > parts books?
              > >
              > > just an Idea
              > >
              > > and BTW migh anyone know who wrote "Shoes and Pattens"
              and "Knives and
              > > Scabbards" and perhaps ISBN#?
              > >
              > > Æiric
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Ex pertinacia pulchritudo
              > From determination, beauty
              >
            • Alasdair Muckart
              ... Googling for book titles is usually a highly reliable way of finding information on them, even if you don t plan on buying them online. I have no
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
                On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 05:30:56 Chris wrote:
                > But here it is anyway...
                > Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
                > I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
                > exist..
                >
                > if it dosent we should make one!
                > After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
                > Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or anything
                > like that...

                Googling for book titles is usually a highly reliable way of finding
                information on them, even if you don't plan on buying them online.

                I have no affiliation with them other than being a happy customer, but I would
                encourage anyone interested in medieval stuff to sign up to David Brown/Oxbow
                Books mailing list, and to use them as your preferred book vendor. They are
                usually very slightly more expensive than amazon, but they have done a lot of
                work to keep interesteing medieval reference books in print and available and
                their service is excellent.

                --
                Alasdair Muckart | William de Wyke | http://wherearetheelves.blogspot.com
                "Any sufficiently advanced stupididty is indistinguishable from malice"
                -- James D. Macdonald
              • Ron Charlotte
                ... Here s my current go to bibliography. The stuff that s not annotated is either new enough (in my possession) that I haven t had a chance to decide on
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 8, 2008
                  At 01:30 PM 4/8/2008, Æiric wrote:
                  >But here it is anyway...
                  >Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
                  >I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
                  >exist..
                  >
                  >if it dosent we should make one!
                  >After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
                  >Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or anything
                  >like that...
                  >
                  >Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least 'must photo-copy'
                  >parts books?


                  Here's my current "go to" bibliography. The
                  stuff that's not annotated is either new enough
                  (in my possession) that I haven't had a chance to
                  decide on the best synopsis, or it's such a
                  general source as to not really need much commentary.


                  BIBLIOGRAPHY FOR LEATHERWORK
                  Compiled by al Thaalibi (Ron Charlotte)

                  Alexis of Piemont (Ruscelli, Girolamo); The
                  Secretes of the Reverende Maister Alexis of
                  Piemount ANNO 1558, Reprinted in 1975 by
                  Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, Ltd., Amsterdam (ISBN 90 221 0707 8)
                  Contains a large collection of apothecary and
                  craftsman’s formulae, including a number of leather dyes.

                  Cameron, Esther A.; Sheaths and Scabbards in
                  England AD400-1100, 2000, Archaeopress, Oxford, England (ISBN 1-84171-065-2)
                  The title tells the tale, but also includes brief
                  discussions of related technologies, including
                  wood and metal working, and a chapter examining the issue of Cuir Bouilli.

                  Cennini, Cennino D'Andea, The Craftsman's
                  Handbook, circa 15th C. Trans. by Daniel V.
                  Thompson, Jr., 1933, 1960 ed. by Dover
                  Publications, New York (ISBN 0-486-20054-X)
                  One section discusses the fabrication of helm
                  crests from leather, and the techniques of painting on leather.

                  Clark, John, et. al., The Medieveal Horse and
                  it’s Equipment, 2004, The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, UK (ISBN 1-84383-097-3)
                  Primarily harness fittings and spurs, as far as leather work is concerned.

                  Coe, Michael D, et. Al.; Swords and Hilt Weapons,
                  1993, Barnes and Noble Books (ISBN: 1-56619-249-8)
                  Some scabbards and sheath, with discussions on the construction.

                  Cowgill, J.; de Neergaard, M.; & Griffiths, N.;
                  et. al.; Knives and Scabbards, 1987, HMSO
                  (ISBN 0 11 290440 8)
                  Lots of well described and analyzed finds, only a
                  few actual pictures, but very good scholarship.

                  Diagram Group, The, Handtools of Arts and Crafts,
                  1981, St. Martin's Press, New York (ISBN: 0312358601).
                  A few pictures of historical leather tools, but
                  good overview of the tools needed to pursue the craft.

                  Eagan, G. & Pritchard, F., et. al.; Dress
                  Accessories: c.1150 -- c.1450, 1991, HMSO (ISBN 0 11 290444 0)
                  Lots of well described and analyzed finds, only a
                  few actual pictures, but very good scholarship.

                  Ellis-Davidson, Hilda R & Webster, Leslie; ‘The
                  Anglo-Saxon Burial at Coombe (Wodnesborough),
                  Kent’; Medieval Archaeology vol. 11, 1967, pp. 1-41.
                  Includes an detailed examination of a wool lined,
                  leather over wood sword scabbard.

                  Farnham, A. B., Home Tanning and Leather Making
                  Guide, 1922, A. R. Harding Publishing Company, Columbus, OH (LOC#: 22024042)

                  Goubitz, Olaf, Purses in Pieces, 2007, Stichting
                  Promotie Archeologie, Uitgevers, NL

                  Grew, F. & de Neergaard, M, et. al.: Shoes and
                  Pattens, 1988, HMSO (ISBN 0 11 290443 2)
                  Lots of well described and analyzed finds, only a
                  few actual pictures, but very good scholarship.

                  Groneman, Chis H., Leather Tooling & Carving,
                  1950, Dover Publications, New York

                  Metropolitan Museum of Art, The; The Secular
                  Spirit: Life and Art at the End of the Middle
                  Ages, 1975, E. P. Dutton & Co., Inc, New York (ISBN 0-87099-096-9)
                  Actually the catalog for a 1975 exhibition held
                  at the Cloisters in New York, this one has extant
                  item seldom published elsewhere.

                  Mould, Quita; Carlisle, Ian; & Cameron, Esther:
                  Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian
                  and Medieval York, 2003, York Archeological
                  Trust, York, UK (ISBN-902771-36-2)

                  Newman, Thelma R.; Leather as Art and Craft,
                  1973, Crown Publishers, New York (ISBN: 0 517 505754)
                  A good basic primer, but her historical overview
                  has some photos of pre 1600 items.

                  Reed, R.; Ancient Skins, Parchments, and
                  Leathers, 1972, Seminar Press, LTD, (ISBN 0 12 903550 5)
                  Primarily focused on leather writing materials,
                  his discussions on tanning materials available by
                  region and era are very worthwhile reading.

                  Rosetti, Gioanventura; The Plictho, 1548; Trans.
                  By Sidney M. Edelstein & Hector C. Borghetty;
                  1969, The MIT Press, Cambridge, MA (LOC#: 68-18235)
                  The last chapter is devoted to leather dyes, dressings, and tanning techniques.

                  Stohlman, Al
                  The Art of Making Leather Cases, 1979, Tandy Leather Co., Ft. Worth, TX.

                  Coloring Leather, 1985, Tandy Leather Co., Ft. Worth, TX.

                  The Art of Hand Sewing Leather, 1977, Tandy Leather Co., Ft. Worth, TX.

                  How to Carve Leather, 1952 Craftool Co., Ft. Worth, TX.
                  The late Mr. Stohlman's books remain (to me) some
                  of the best primers on good leather work techniques in general.

                  Waterer, John W.
                  Leather and Craftsmanship, 1950, Farber & Farber Ltd., London, England.

                  Leather Craftsmanship, 1968, Frederic A. Praeger, New York, New York.

                  ‘Irish Book-Satchels or Budgets’; Medieval
                  Archaeology vol. 12, 1968, pp. 70-82.
                  The “grand old man” of leather scholarship, for
                  many years his books were the only thing out
                  there. He has other books, but many of them are very hard to find.

                  Wells, Larry J., Leather Makin', 1985, Horizon
                  Publishers & Distributors, Inc., Bountiful, UT
                  A good modern primer on low tech leather tanning.



                  Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                  ronch2@... OR afn03234@...

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Filip De Clercq
                  If you want to make early medieval shoes there is a large section in this book. Primitive Shoes by Margrethe Hald ,Copenhagen 1972 ISBN 87 480 7282 6
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 9, 2008
                    If you want to make early medieval shoes there is a large section in this book.
                    "Primitive Shoes" by Margrethe Hald ,Copenhagen 1972
                    ISBN 87 480 7282 6
                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/8748072826/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=



                    "Mendemblik and Monnickendam" aspects of medieval urbanization in northern Holland.1989, ISBN 90 70319 11 X
                    This book contains 14 Cy shoes and boots from Monnickendam.
                    Dutch with short English summary.
                    This shoe is in the book.
                    http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalshoemaking/photos/view/bab9?b=1&m=f&o=0

                    Filip

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • beanmaestro
                    A few more that others haven t mentioned: If you read German, Leder im Europaischen Kunsthandwerk by Gunter Gall is incredible. If not, it s still well worth
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 9, 2008
                      A few more that others haven't mentioned:

                      If you read German, Leder im Europaischen Kunsthandwerk by Gunter
                      Gall is incredible. If not, it's still well worth it as a picture-
                      book. Got mine for $70 including postage from Germany.

                      For shoes, Olaf Goubitz' Stepping Through Time is a good bit
                      friendlier than Shoes and Pattens.

                      Marc Carlson (one of the founders of this list) has a good website/e-
                      book up on the subject:
                      Footwear of the Middle Ages, I. Marc Carlson (THL Diarmait ua Dhuinn)
                      http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOEHOME.HTM

                      Jon

                      --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cslemke2000@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > But here it is anyway...
                      > Is there a 'definitive' 'must have' list of books on this group?
                      > I've been looking but cannot seem to find it if, if it does indeed
                      > exist..
                      >
                      > if it dosent we should make one!
                      > After all I keep hearing about "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives and
                      > Scabbards" but have no idea who the authors are or ISBN # or
                      anything
                      > like that...
                      >
                      > Should we start a list of 'must-have' or at least 'must photo-
                      copy'
                      > parts books?
                      >
                      > just an Idea
                      >
                      > and BTW migh anyone know who wrote "Shoes and Pattens" and "Knives
                      and
                      > Scabbards" and perhaps ISBN#?
                      >
                      > Æiric
                      >
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