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  • Sir William Flanagan
    Hello to all!!! My name in the SCA is William Flanagan. I am a Knight in the outlands and enjoy leatherwork. I have been in the SCA for 20 years last Feb.
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 5, 2007
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      Hello to all!!!
      My name in the SCA is William Flanagan.
      I am a Knight in the outlands and enjoy leatherwork.
      I have been in the SCA for 20 years last Feb. mostly in the Kingdom
      of Atenveldt. this is were Master Joe Mc Fadden showed me a touch of
      leather work and got me hooked.

      I enjoy Embossing and Tooling. My reall issue right now is
      documention.

      The Wide Belts that is Worn in movies I refer to them as a WWF (old
      school)

      then the gorgets or a "celtic" collar a wide ring that sits on top of
      the shoulders and covers the front and back as well.

      Sorry for the bad Spelling

      Flanagan
    • Luke Knowlton
      Greetings Sir William, Welcome to the list. Glad you found us. ... I can speak to wide belts as worn in the period 350-550CE. These sorts of belts were very
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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        Greetings Sir William,

        Welcome to the list. Glad you found us.

        > The Wide Belts that is Worn in movies I refer to them as a WWF (old
        > school)

        I can speak to wide belts as worn in the period 350-550CE. These sorts
        of belts were very popular with the late Roman military. They were
        often decorated and reinforced with metal stiffeners. As far as I have
        been able to determine they were not tooled but could have decorative
        stitching. Here is a picture from Sir Raymond the Quiet's website of
        belts and fittings he sells:
        http://www.quietpress.com/RomanGermanic_Belt.html
        Here is an example from the mosaics from Piazza Armerina ca. 325CE:
        http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528044013710774mjzcCf
        The Piazza Armerina mosaics show a number of belts from the period and
        is a good resource.

        Hope this is a help,

        Master Luke Knowlton
      • Bill Worth
        Thank you thats a nice start Gives me a good place to look in that time. Flanagan Luke Knowlton wrote: Greetings Sir William,
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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          Thank you thats a nice start Gives me a good place to look in that time.
          Flanagan

          Luke Knowlton <lukeknowlton@...> wrote:
          Greetings Sir William,

          Welcome to the list. Glad you found us.

          > The Wide Belts that is Worn in movies I refer to them as a WWF (old
          > school)

          I can speak to wide belts as worn in the period 350-550CE. These sorts
          of belts were very popular with the late Roman military. They were
          often decorated and reinforced with metal stiffeners. As far as I have
          been able to determine they were not tooled but could have decorative
          stitching. Here is a picture from Sir Raymond the Quiet's website of
          belts and fittings he sells:
          http://www.quietpress.com/RomanGermanic_Belt.html
          Here is an example from the mosaics from Piazza Armerina ca. 325CE:
          http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528044013710774mjzcCf
          The Piazza Armerina mosaics show a number of belts from the period and
          is a good resource.

          Hope this is a help,

          Master Luke Knowlton




          Yahoo! Groups Links






          Bill Worth
          A.K.A.
          Sir William Flanagan
          http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
          The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
          is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Worth
          http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528453013710774LLAGHI This is a Pic. of the same albume with a lady wereing a celtic collar / gorget how can one know
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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            http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528453013710774LLAGHI

            This is a Pic. of the same albume with a lady wereing a "celtic collar" / gorget
            how can one know if this was leather or cloth etc.
            flanagan


            Luke Knowlton <lukeknowlton@...> wrote:
            Greetings Sir William,

            Welcome to the list. Glad you found us.

            > The Wide Belts that is Worn in movies I refer to them as a WWF (old
            > school)

            I can speak to wide belts as worn in the period 350-550CE. These sorts
            of belts were very popular with the late Roman military. They were
            often decorated and reinforced with metal stiffeners. As far as I have
            been able to determine they were not tooled but could have decorative
            stitching. Here is a picture from Sir Raymond the Quiet's website of
            belts and fittings he sells:
            http://www.quietpress.com/RomanGermanic_Belt.html
            Here is an example from the mosaics from Piazza Armerina ca. 325CE:
            http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528044013710774mjzcCf
            The Piazza Armerina mosaics show a number of belts from the period and
            is a good resource.

            Hope this is a help,

            Master Luke Knowlton




            Yahoo! Groups Links






            Bill Worth
            A.K.A.
            Sir William Flanagan
            http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
            The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
            is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jon Terris
            It may just be me but I would have thought that to be a necklace rather than a gorget. Is there any refernce for a leather gorget at all? My understanding as
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 7, 2007
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              It may just be me but I would have thought that to be a necklace
              rather than a gorget.

              Is there any refernce for a leather gorget at all? My understanding as
              an armourer is that the metal gorget appears in the 1500s as collar
              plates to support the top of a breastplate and backplate (made
              neccessary by the shortening of the plates at the shoulders to square
              them off over the top of the chest.)

              Am I completeley off track here? Is there another reason for the gorget?

              Jon.

              Please note, I am not being discouraging here, I am genuinely
              interested in knowing the history of this piece of equipment!


              --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Bill Worth <sirflanagn@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528453013710774LLAGHI
              >
              > This is a Pic. of the same albume with a lady wereing a "celtic
              collar" / gorget
              > how can one know if this was leather or cloth etc.
              > flanagan
            • Bill Worth
              I am Only referring to it as a gorget do to lack of knowledge. But I am trying to find a Reference so I can enter my Leather one in A&S with documentation ;-)
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 7, 2007
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                I am Only referring to it as a gorget do to lack of knowledge.
                But I am trying to find a Reference so I can enter my Leather one in A&S with documentation
                ;-)
                Flanagan

                Jon Terris <laffinjon@...> wrote:
                It may just be me but I would have thought that to be a necklace
                rather than a gorget.

                Is there any refernce for a leather gorget at all? My understanding as
                an armourer is that the metal gorget appears in the 1500s as collar
                plates to support the top of a breastplate and backplate (made
                neccessary by the shortening of the plates at the shoulders to square
                them off over the top of the chest.)

                Am I completeley off track here? Is there another reason for the gorget?

                Jon.

                Please note, I am not being discouraging here, I am genuinely
                interested in knowing the history of this piece of equipment!


                --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Bill Worth
                wrote:
                >
                > http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1336528453013710774LLAGHI
                >
                > This is a Pic. of the same albume with a lady wereing a "celtic
                collar" / gorget
                > how can one know if this was leather or cloth etc.
                > flanagan





                Yahoo! Groups Links






                Bill Worth
                A.K.A.
                Sir William Flanagan
                http://www.myspace.com/fighting_irish_knight
                The reason Irish fight so often among themselves
                is that they're always assured of having a worthy opponent.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ron Charlotte
                ... If you can lay hands on it, James Waterer s _Leather and the Warrior_ might help. It s not in my library, but is on my list to eventually acquire. I ll
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 7, 2007
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                  At 10:28 AM 11/7/2007, Jon wrote:

                  >Is there any refernce for a leather gorget at all? My understanding as
                  >an armourer is that the metal gorget appears in the 1500s as collar
                  >plates to support the top of a breastplate and backplate (made
                  >neccessary by the shortening of the plates at the shoulders to square
                  >them off over the top of the chest.)
                  >
                  >Am I completeley off track here? Is there another reason for the gorget?

                  If you can lay hands on it, James Waterer's _Leather and the Warrior_
                  might help. It's not in my library, but is on my list to eventually acquire.

                  I'll have to do a bit more poking about. Leather armor parts have
                  always been something of a hit and miss thing, research wise.


                  al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
                  Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                  ronch2@... or afn03234@...
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