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  • Saint Phlip
    I ve just been asked to write an article for the Creative Anachronist. Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that they can make at home with reasonably
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 7, 2007
      I've just been asked to write an article for the Creative Anachronist.
      Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that they can make at
      home with reasonably accessible materials. Unfortunately, I don't have
      any references here, other than Swords and Scabbards. Thinking that
      that might not be an ideal project for kids ;-) I was wondering what
      sources you guys might suggest that I could use to make them a pouch.
      I would prefer to use on-line resources, since the deadline is fairly
      close, and ILL takes a while, unless any of you guys have stuff you'd
      be willing to scan for me.

      --
      Saint Phlip

      Heat it up
      Hit it hard
      Repent as necessary.

      Priorities:

      It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
    • Matthew Martsolf
      Saint Phlip, How about a nice pair of kids sized bracers for the article. You could even do a template - size your own - type pattern for it. Would only
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 7, 2007
        Saint Phlip,

        How about a nice pair of kids sized bracers for the article. You
        could even do a template - size your own - type pattern for it. Would
        only require having a pair of scissors and something to make holes
        with. They can easily be made from scrap leather. They could also be
        decorated very easily by children with marker, dye or paint.

        Mathius

        --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Saint Phlip" <phlip@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've just been asked to write an article for the Creative Anachronist.
        > Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that they can make at
        > home with reasonably accessible materials. Unfortunately, I don't have
        > any references here, other than Swords and Scabbards. Thinking that
        > that might not be an ideal project for kids ;-) I was wondering what
        > sources you guys might suggest that I could use to make them a pouch.
        > I would prefer to use on-line resources, since the deadline is fairly
        > close, and ILL takes a while, unless any of you guys have stuff you'd
        > be willing to scan for me.
        >
        > --
        > Saint Phlip
        >
        > Heat it up
        > Hit it hard
        > Repent as necessary.
        >
        > Priorities:
        >
        > It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
        >
      • Henry Plouse
        Two years ago, I had to run a week long Medieval Event for 250 Girl Scouts (ages 7-13) and I did leather drawstring pouches. They re easy, cheap, and a good
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 7, 2007
          Two years ago, I had to run a week long "Medieval Event" for 250 Girl Scouts (ages 7-13) and I did leather drawstring pouches. They're easy, cheap, and a good way to learn everything actually necessary to working leather. I'd be happy to share my info with you.

          YOS,
          Alric of Angleheim, Lord Greybeard, Shire of Glyn Dwfn, An Tir.

          Saint Phlip <phlip@...> wrote:
          I've just been asked to write an article for the Creative Anachronist.
          Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that they can make at
          home with reasonably accessible materials. Unfortunately, I don't have
          any references here, other than Swords and Scabbards. Thinking that
          that might not be an ideal project for kids ;-) I was wondering what
          sources you guys might suggest that I could use to make them a pouch.
          I would prefer to use on-line resources, since the deadline is fairly
          close, and ILL takes a while, unless any of you guys have stuff you'd
          be willing to scan for me.

          --
          Saint Phlip

          Heat it up
          Hit it hard
          Repent as necessary.

          Priorities:

          It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.





          ---------------------------------
          Be a PS3 game guru.
          Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Saint Phlip
          OK, great, I d love to see what you have. Rest assured, I ll credit you ;-) I m looking forward to it because I enjoy kids, and it will be good to see if I can
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 7, 2007
            OK, great, I'd love to see what you have. Rest assured, I'll credit you ;-)

            I'm looking forward to it because I enjoy kids, and it will be good to
            see if I can translate my thoughts and ideas to them long distance,
            rather than one on one.

            On 3/7/07, Henry Plouse <ozymandias1951@...> wrote:
            > Two years ago, I had to run a week long "Medieval Event" for 250 Girl Scouts (ages 7-13) and I did leather drawstring pouches. They're easy, cheap, and a good way to learn everything actually necessary to working leather. I'd be happy to share my info with you.
            >
            > YOS,
            > Alric of Angleheim, Lord Greybeard, Shire of Glyn Dwfn, An Tir.
            >
            > Saint Phlip <phlip@...> wrote:
            > I've just been asked to write an article for the Creative Anachronist.
            > Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that they can make at
            > home with reasonably accessible materials. Unfortunately, I don't have
            > any references here, other than Swords and Scabbards. Thinking that
            > that might not be an ideal project for kids ;-) I was wondering what
            > sources you guys might suggest that I could use to make them a pouch.
            > I would prefer to use on-line resources, since the deadline is fairly
            > close, and ILL takes a while, unless any of you guys have stuff you'd
            > be willing to scan for me.

            --
            Saint Phlip

            Heat it up
            Hit it hard
            Repent as necessary.

            Priorities:

            It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
          • Henry Plouse
            Don t worry about crediting me - there s not that much original about it. Unfortunately, my scanner is crapped out so I m not sure how I can get the pattern
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 7, 2007
              Don't worry about crediting me - there's not that much original about it. Unfortunately, my scanner is crapped out so I'm not sure how I can get the pattern and sewing instructions to you.

              Basically, tho', you use a light, garment weight leather (chrome tanned), since that's easier for the kids to cut, punch, and turn (anything from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 oz.). There are two basic patterns - one of them is just a rectangle, with sewing holes along the two long sides. With that one, you contact cement along the long sides (on the good side - remember, these are "turn shoe construction"). Then, when the cement is tacky enough, you just fold it in half, pressing the glued edges together (at that point, you can do the hole punching - I use either a "0" or "00" punch). That leaves the opening on top and the bottom is the fold/crease. Then you sew each of the edges, trim the excess (I usually leave about 5/8" along the outside, so that little fingers can handle it and then trim it down to about 1/8"), turn it inside out, punch the holes for the drawstring and thread the drawstring.

              The other pattern (which I personally prefer, tho' it may be harder for the kids) involves cutting two matching "U" shapes. Again, glue with contact cement (on the "good side") around the long and curved edges and, when tacky, press together. Then punch holes for sewing and sew, in one continuous stitch, along one long side, around the curve and up the other long side. Trim, turn inside out, punch drawstring holes along the top, etc.

              I use 3 different stitches. The easiest (for the youngest kids) is a simple "running stitch" (in the hole, then back through the next hole, then in the next hole, etc. - then, go back, so that you catch the holes in the opposite direction, i.e., in the out hole, out the in hole, etc.).

              For more advanced/older kids, you can use a cobbler's stitch (tho' you have to use two needles for each kid with that one and it takes a bit more coordination).

              I personally prefer a running lock stitch. You can do that with an "Easy Stitch Awl", but you can also do it with a single needle. Thread through the eye and double the thread. To start, put the needle through the first hole, pulling it a bit more than halfway through. Then you can take the needle end, take it back through the next hole, loop it back through that same hole, forming a loop, and then take the loose end and pass it through the loop, before pulling it tight. Repeat, proceeding to the next hole.. The "mantra" I use, in teaching that stitch is "the rabbit (i.e., the needle) goes out the hole, looks around, sees the fox, runs back in the hole, sets the trap (i.e, the loop), fox goes through the trap (i.e. thread the loose end through the loop), and the rabbit springs the trap." Even my 4 year old granddaughter can do that one, but it does take a bit of work.

              I should note that I bought a couple pieces of upholstery leather (about 22 sq. feet each) from Brettuns Village Leather (www.brettunsvillage/leather.com) for about $60 each and we got enough for all the girls to make pouches. You can also tailor the project as necessary. I cut out plastic patterns and let the kids lay out and draw the blanks and go from there, but you could pre-draw, or pre-cut the blanks, even pre-glue or pre-glue and pre-punch the pieces, depending on how much time you have, what the kid's skill level and attention span is, etc.

              YOS,
              ALRIC of Angleheim.




              Saint Phlip <phlip@...> wrote:
              OK, great, I'd love to see what you have. Rest assured, I'll credit you ;-)

              I'm looking forward to it because I enjoy kids, and it will be good to
              see if I can translate my thoughts and ideas to them long distance,
              rather than one on one.

              On 3/7/07, Henry Plouse <ozymandias1951@...> wrote:
              > Two years ago, I had to run a week long "Medieval Event" for 250 Girl Scouts (ages 7-13) and I did leather drawstring pouches. They're easy, cheap, and a good way to learn everything actually necessary to working leather. I'd be happy to share my info with you.
              >
              > YOS,
              > Alric of Angleheim, Lord Greybeard, Shire of Glyn Dwfn, An Tir.
              >
              > Saint Phlip <phlip@...> wrote:
              > I've just been asked to write an article for the Creative Anachronist.
              > Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that they can make at
              > home with reasonably accessible materials. Unfortunately, I don't have
              > any references here, other than Swords and Scabbards. Thinking that
              > that might not be an ideal project for kids ;-) I was wondering what
              > sources you guys might suggest that I could use to make them a pouch.
              > I would prefer to use on-line resources, since the deadline is fairly
              > close, and ILL takes a while, unless any of you guys have stuff you'd
              > be willing to scan for me.

              --
              Saint Phlip

              Heat it up
              Hit it hard
              Repent as necessary.

              Priorities:

              It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.





              ---------------------------------
              Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
              with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Anna Troy
              And if the poches are made in veggi-tanned leather the leather can be dampened a bit and they can press patterns into it with a stick or other objects. Anna T
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 7, 2007
                And if the poches are made in veggi-tanned leather the
                leather can be dampened a bit and they can press
                patterns into it with a stick or other objects.

                Anna T

                > On 3/7/07, Henry Plouse <ozymandias1951@...>
                > wrote:
                > > Two years ago, I had to run a week long "Medieval
                > Event" for 250 Girl Scouts (ages 7-13) and I did
                > leather drawstring pouches. They're easy, cheap,
                > and a good way to learn everything actually
                > necessary to working leather. I'd be happy to share
                > my info with you.
                > >
                > > YOS,
                > > Alric of Angleheim, Lord Greybeard, Shire of Glyn
                > Dwfn, An Tir.
                > >
                > > Saint Phlip <phlip@...> wrote:
                > > I've just been asked to write an article
                > for the Creative Anachronist.
                > > Basicly what they want is a project for kids, that
                > they can make at
                > > home with reasonably accessible materials.
                > Unfortunately, I don't have
                > > any references here, other than Swords and
                > Scabbards. Thinking that
                > > that might not be an ideal project for kids ;-) I
                > was wondering what
                > > sources you guys might suggest that I could use to
                > make them a pouch.
                > > I would prefer to use on-line resources, since the
                > deadline is fairly
                > > close, and ILL takes a while, unless any of you
                > guys have stuff you'd
                > > be willing to scan for me.
                >
                > --
                > Saint Phlip
                >
                > Heat it up
                > Hit it hard
                > Repent as necessary.
                >
                > Priorities:
                >
                > It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools
                > which make the smith.
                >
                >
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                "So many books, so little time"

                "Anna's Crafts Links Page"
                http://annat.net/ac
              • Saint Phlip
                Guys, while I appreciate suggestions, it s documentation I need, not projects. Specific questions include- What types of garment leather would be an equivalent
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 8, 2007
                  Guys, while I appreciate suggestions, it's documentation I need, not projects.

                  Specific questions include-

                  What types of garment leather would be an equivalent to what was
                  available in the MA? Veggie tanned is pretty much a given, but how
                  does that differ from tawed?

                  Where can I find pictures of pouches? If I look at it, I can likely
                  make it (except shoes).

                  On 3/7/07, Henry Plouse <ozymandias1951@...> wrote:
                  > Don't worry about crediting me - there's not that much original about it. Unfortunately, my scanner is crapped out so I'm not sure how I can get the pattern and sewing instructions to you.


                  --
                  Saint Phlip

                  Heat it up
                  Hit it hard
                  Repent as necessary.

                  Priorities:

                  It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
                • Matthew Martsolf
                  Ello, An even easier project would be children s bracers/armguards. I have a basic pattern that I use but the pattern can also be scaled up or down depending
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 8, 2007
                    Ello,

                    An even easier project would be children's bracers/armguards. I have
                    a basic pattern that I use but the pattern can also be scaled up or
                    down depending on the child. The only tools need are something to cut
                    with and something to make holes with. They can then be personalized
                    by stamping or painting. The top edge can also have designs cut into it.

                    _____ _________ ________measure around wrist
                    I /o o\
                    I /o o\
                    I /o o\
                    Length /o o\
                    I /o o\ _____ measure around upper lower arm
                    I \ /
                    __I___ \_______________/

                    Cut, punch, decorate and lace - Done!

                    Mathius
                  • Ron Charlotte
                    ... The difference is night and day. The two forms of leather handle very differently. Judging from some of the recipes in _The Plichto_ (a 16th century
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 8, 2007
                      At 07:45 AM 3/8/2007, you wrote:
                      >Guys, while I appreciate suggestions, it's documentation I need, not projects.
                      >
                      >Specific questions include-
                      >
                      >What types of garment leather would be an equivalent to what was
                      >available in the MA? Veggie tanned is pretty much a given, but how
                      >does that differ from tawed?

                      The difference is night and day. The two forms of leather handle
                      very differently.
                      Judging from some of the recipes in _The Plichto_ (a 16th century
                      dyer's manual that contains a chapter on leather dyes and
                      treatments), the most likely garment leather could easily be alum taw
                      finished with an oil process.

                      Some of the very few surviving garments are made of "Buff" which is
                      essentially very heavy chamois leather.

                      In R. Reed's _Ancient Skins, Parchments and Leathers_ he has some
                      references to parchment treated skins being then tanned with an oil
                      tannage process.


                      >Where can I find pictures of pouches? If I look at it, I can likely
                      >make it (except shoes).

                      There's a few in books like _Dress Accessories_ otherwise, you have
                      to look at the details in a lot of the paintings of the era. There
                      really isn't much surviving predating the 1400s. That's the best I
                      can think of, I've spent a silly amount of time looking at prints of
                      paintings with a magnifying glass just to get the shapes for
                      accessories like purses.




                      Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                      ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                    • Lady Czina Angielczyka
                      Greetings! For garment weight (and a bit heavier), deerskin (and the deertan cow) will be vaguely similar to the buff leather. The flexibility needed for
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 9, 2007
                        Greetings!

                        For garment weight (and a bit heavier), deerskin (and the deertan cow)
                        will be vaguely similar to the 'buff' leather. The flexibility needed
                        for things like gloves and such could probably be best approximated
                        with garment pigskin, although I would probably turn it so the grain
                        side was out. Of course, then you have to deal with the accuracy of
                        the color - but they had white, black, red, green, and blue (according
                        to recipes in -The Plictho-, which were recipes for garment weight
                        alum tawed leather, more than likely).

                        Alum tawed is as different from veg-tan as modern chrome tanned, when
                        you're talking about garment weight. Heavier alum tawed is very
                        similar in weight and flexibility, which isn't much, when you're
                        talking 8 oz and higher.

                        In terms of pouches, the -Dress Accessories- has a few, as well as the
                        -Craft and Industry in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York - the
                        Leatherwork-. All archaeological examples are going to be veg tanned -
                        but there are a few museum examples that may be alum tawed.

                        For pictures of extant examples, you can check the Deutsches Leder
                        Museum (Germany, and much of the site is in German).
                        http://www.ledermuseum.de/

                        And for Waterer's Museum of Leathercraft (England), check here:
                        http://www.museumofleathercraft.org/

                        There are several bibliographies floating around with more resources
                        for you, as well. My personal 'Works Consulted for Leathercraft Items'
                        has just gone over 2 pages (and these are sources that I personally
                        have copies of). Unfortunately, there's still a lot of guess work
                        about everyday items that don't survive in archaeological conditions,
                        and alum tawed leather is a prime example.

                        In Service,

                        Czina Angielczyka
                        Barony of the Angels, CAID (in the SCA)

                        --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Saint Phlip" <phlip@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Guys, while I appreciate suggestions, it's documentation I need, not
                        projects.
                        >
                        > Specific questions include-
                        >
                        > What types of garment leather would be an equivalent to what was
                        > available in the MA? Veggie tanned is pretty much a given, but how
                        > does that differ from tawed?
                        >
                        > Where can I find pictures of pouches? If I look at it, I can likely
                        > make it (except shoes).
                        >

                        > --
                        > Saint Phlip
                        >
                      • The Dudleys
                        Greetings All, In the past, Siegel Leather has sold undyed (white) alum tawed leather in a variety of weights. Often, they sell it by the pound. It shows up
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 10, 2007
                          Greetings All,

                          In the past, Siegel Leather has sold undyed (white) alum tawed leather in a
                          variety of weights. Often, they sell it by the pound. It shows up now and
                          again in their emailed Friday Specials. Check their web site.

                          Friedrich
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