Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [medieval-leather] A Question On Immersion Dyeing

Expand Messages
  • Saint Phlip
    ... Well, while batch dying will help give you a MORE consistant color, the thing to remember with leather is that, rather like different batches of fabric,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 4, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      On 6/4/06, ren_junkie <ren_junkie@...> wrote:

      > Actually I have a bunch of them, but let's just start here.
      >
      > I want in the near future to start playing with immersion dyeing, as
      > I rather think that will be a better way to make all the pieces to
      > a suite I make all match better than dyeing each piece individually.
      >
      > First question, and the only one for today: How would Indigo work on
      > veg-tan leather? I recently found out it is indigo used in blue
      > jeans (I'm a textile retard, ok? lol), and I rather like the color.
      > In fact, I have spent quite a lot of time and fiebings light blue
      > and reducer trying to get a blue that looks the way I want. I have
      > seen jeans in a very similar tone of blue, so.....Would indigo work
      > for this, or would indigo be a bloody disaster? My woman has a lot
      > of indigo experience in fabrics, so she can help, but she has zero
      > experience with leather. So I turn to you, to let me know if it
      > would be a waste of time, or if the dye would take and be stable,
      > and all I would need to find out is what intensity to make it for
      > the tone I want.
      >
      > Thanks, all,
      > Christopher


      Well, while batch dying will help give you a MORE consistant color, the
      thing to remember with leather is that, rather like different batches of
      fabric, each hide will take the dye slightly differently. You'll even find
      variations within a single hide- that's a natural result of using a natural
      material. However, it certainly should provide you with the MOST consistant
      results- it's how the commercial outfits do it.

      I see no reason why indigo wouldn't work, as long as it was in the proper
      fluid base. Best colors I get are from spirit dyes, which I think uses
      denatured alcohol for a base. Have you given any thought to how much in
      terms of sheer volume you're going to need, what you're going to dye it in,
      and how you're going to deal with the excess? Batch dyeing of fabric
      generally requires the fabric to swim freely in the dye bath, and to dye
      about 15 lbs of fabric, I use a 50 gallon plastic barrel.

      http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1893-AA.shtml?lnav=dyes.html

      Dharma is an excellent company to deal with as far as dyes go. Orders arrive
      quickly, and accurately, and they have a tremendous amount of information on
      fabric dyeing on their site. I'm sure much of it will be transferable to
      leather, since they sell dyes for both plant fibers and animal fibers, as
      well as the natural dyes I gave you the URL for.

      Just be careful what you plan to do with the excess. A relatively "minor"
      spill of some grease that was thinned by (what else?) degreaser and a power
      washer, in an attempted clean up, here in CT, cost the company here who
      screwed up over $60,000 to clean up, once all was said and done. The EPA has
      NO sense of humor.


      Be careful, have fun, and DO tell us about your experiences.





      > --
      > Saint Phlip
      >
      > Don't like getting old? Beats the Hel out of the alternative.
      >
      > The purpose of life is not to arrive at the grave, a beautiful corpse,
      > pretty and well-preserved, but to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up,
      > totally worn out, proclaiming, "Wow! What a ride!"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Red
      First, Congratulations on getting this far. Now for the bad news...While it is possible to get a blue color from indido onto leather, it will not turn out like
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        First,
        Congratulations on getting this far. Now for the bad news...While it
        is possible to get a blue color from indido onto leather, it will not
        turn out like you think.
        My wife and I attended a fabric and dye retreat last year hosted by
        Griffin Dye Works. I taught basic stamping and belt making, my wife
        soaked up as much knowledge as possible.
        First, indigo is hard to work with. Any natural dye will work
        differently than modern chemical dyes, be it Fiebings, Rit or
        whatever. And indigo is more difficult to use than most others,
        apparently. All the ladies made a big deal about having "the indigo
        pots going" and having an expert there to help with them. On wool,
        linen, and cotton, it took lots of heat, lots of attention to detail,
        several soakings, rinsing, soaking, rinsing, drying, soaking, etc.
        At the end of it all, my wife was happy with the results she
        achieved on her linen. Then she took a bunch home to try on various
        types of leather. You can't heat it up the same, or it will turn the
        leather hard and brittle...so, in the end, the best results were
        achieved using a stronger solution and longer soaking.
        The blue was a deeeeep neo-electric blue. It was very pretty. It was
        also, very gritty. There was a lot of surface residue. If you rinse
        it, lots of color comes off. To get a decent dark blue, it ends up
        being more like a paint than a dye. Lots on the surface, a little
        penetration. Apparently, that is an issue with indigo...penetration
        and gripping power.
        If you rinse it to just what pentrated well, it ends up very light,
        and usually mottled in color.
        Now, both were nice effects. But, it was lots of work, lots of time,
        and the effects were not at all like we, or you, hoped it would be. I
        could have gotten the same effects with Fiebings, with lots less
        effort, and more control.
        So, to answer your question: Yes, it can be done. No, it's not easy.
        No, it won't look like blue jeans.
        That being said, try it. If you find a better way, or get better
        results, please let me know, cuz I would love to be able to use it. I
        just haven't found a way to make it easy, or get the effect I want. I
        have considered mixing it up thick and using it with a gesso or gum to
        make a paint, though. When time allows.
        And if you're in California, the same dye retreat weekend is held
        every year. This year it's in mid-late October. You can try any
        natural dyes you like, they use hundreds.
        Best of luck,
        Red

        --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "ren_junkie" <ren_junkie@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Actually I have a bunch of them, but let's just start here.
        >
        > I want in the near future to start playing with immersion dyeing, as
        > I rather think that will be a better way to make all the pieces to
        > a suite I make all match better than dyeing each piece individually.
        >
        > First question, and the only one for today: How would Indigo work on
        > veg-tan leather? I recently found out it is indigo used in blue
        > jeans (I'm a textile retard, ok? lol), and I rather like the color.
        > In fact, I have spent quite a lot of time and fiebings light blue
        > and reducer trying to get a blue that looks the way I want. I have
        > seen jeans in a very similar tone of blue, so.....Would indigo work
        > for this, or would indigo be a bloody disaster? My woman has a lot
        > of indigo experience in fabrics, so she can help, but she has zero
        > experience with leather. So I turn to you, to let me know if it
        > would be a waste of time, or if the dye would take and be stable,
        > and all I would need to find out is what intensity to make it for
        > the tone I want.
        >
        > Thanks, all,
        > Christopher
        >
      • Saint Phlip
        ...
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          On 6/5/06, Red <red@...> wrote:
          >
          > First,
          > Congratulations on getting this far. Now for the bad news...While it
          > is possible to get a blue color from indido onto leather, it will not
          > turn out like you think.


          <Much snippage of good information on dyeing leather with indigo snipped)

          Having done a bit of further research on the topic today I discovered that
          the best solution to dissolve indigo in for dyeing purposes is a mix of
          amonia and alcohol- not sure of the proportions. However, what you'll have
          will fade and wash out really easily, so if you use it for garments, a bit
          of sweat will have the appropriate portions of your anatomy turning blue-
          quite possibly highly amusing, but perhaps not the effect you might want ;-)

          Still looking, but what I'm finding indicates that woad might be a much
          better natural dye for your purposes. Certainly, it's more permanent.

          --
          > Saint Phlip
          >
          > Don't like getting old? Beats the Hel out of the alternative.
          >
          > The purpose of life is not to arrive at the grave, a beautiful corpse,
          > pretty and well-preserved, but to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up,
          > totally worn out, proclaiming, "Wow! What a ride!"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ren_junkie
          Thanks for the info. No, I don t know terribly much about using indigo, I have never dyed fabrics before. But, having said that, my woman is inhumanly happy
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 6, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks for the info. No, I don't know terribly much about using
            indigo, I have never dyed fabrics before. But, having said that, my
            woman is inhumanly happy when using indigo, so I have an experienced
            dyer on hand. The results do sound quite interesting, but I didn't
            realize it would act that way, or that it was worked at cuirbouile
            temps. Don't think it will work for what I was hoping for. Of
            course, if anyone happens to get that rather toxic-sounding
            amonia/alcahol mix to work, please let me know.

            Oh, I don't know the exact amounts of dy I will need, but I am
            anticipating enough to fill the average family pool...lol. It's
            gonna be beastly expensive, but I'm hoping the end result will
            justify the cost.

            Oh, I know that there will be vaiations from hide to hide, and even
            on the same hides. I want it consistient, but I want it to vary with
            the hide, not due to me. I hate when I'm dyeing something and I put
            more coats on one piece than another, or I do this spot a bit
            different than another. As long as it's variations in the leather
            causing the variations, that's fine. I mean, that's where the beauty
            of dyed leather is. If I wanted it perfectly consitient, I'd paint
            it.

            Woad, you say? Hmmmm, that's interesting. I would like to use
            naturaly and traditional dyes as much as possible. Maybe cheaper
            than Fiebings, and honestly, I just think it would be all kinds of
            cool to have natural dyes on my armour. Guess I'll have to give my
            woman the recipies from 1588. It'll just break her heart to get to
            play with all those new dyeing techniques....lol.

            Thanks,all...

            Christopher
          • Thomas Thurman
            Don t know if you have found this before: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/dyes/segreti.htm And using indigo for leather: 336. To dye skins blue. --Take for
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 6, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Don't know if you have found this before:

              http://www.elizabethancostume.net/dyes/segreti.htm

              And using indigo for leather:

              "336. To dye skins blue. --Take for each skin 1 oz. of indigo, and grind
              it well with strong vinegar, and to each ounce of indigo take one
              foglietta of vinegar, and dip a paintbrush or a hare's foot into it, and
              lay it upon the skins, and dry them in the shade. Then give them a second
              coat, and let them dry, and they will be very beautiful. And if you boil
              the vinegar a little with the indigo, the skin will be of a much brighter
              and fuller colour."

              Don't ask me what a foglietta is specifically :) I think most period
              recipes don't specifically use immersion because dyes could wash out the
              alum that the tawed leathers used. I would also recommend (if using this
              recipe) to use it on the lightest veg-tan stuff as alum tawed stuff is
              *BRIGHT* white.

              Brian

              > Thanks for the info. No, I don't know terribly much about using
              > indigo, I have never dyed fabrics before. But, having said that, my
              > woman is inhumanly happy when using indigo, so I have an experienced
              > dyer on hand. The results do sound quite interesting, but I didn't
              > realize it would act that way, or that it was worked at cuirbouile
              > temps. Don't think it will work for what I was hoping for. Of
              > course, if anyone happens to get that rather toxic-sounding
              > amonia/alcahol mix to work, please let me know.
              >
            • Ellen Bartel
              A foglietta is 240 mLs or a cup (8oz). Ellen Bartel ... grind ... it, and ... second ... you boil ... brighter ... period ... out the ... using this ... stuff
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                A foglietta is 240 mLs or a cup (8oz).

                Ellen Bartel


                --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Thurman"
                <tthurman@...> wrote:
                >
                > Don't know if you have found this before:
                >
                > http://www.elizabethancostume.net/dyes/segreti.htm
                >
                > And using indigo for leather:
                >
                > "336. To dye skins blue. --Take for each skin 1 oz. of indigo, and
                grind
                > it well with strong vinegar, and to each ounce of indigo take one
                > foglietta of vinegar, and dip a paintbrush or a hare's foot into
                it, and
                > lay it upon the skins, and dry them in the shade. Then give them a
                second
                > coat, and let them dry, and they will be very beautiful. And if
                you boil
                > the vinegar a little with the indigo, the skin will be of a much
                brighter
                > and fuller colour."
                >
                > Don't ask me what a foglietta is specifically :) I think most
                period
                > recipes don't specifically use immersion because dyes could wash
                out the
                > alum that the tawed leathers used. I would also recommend (if
                using this
                > recipe) to use it on the lightest veg-tan stuff as alum tawed
                stuff is
                > *BRIGHT* white.
                >
                > Brian
                >
                > > Thanks for the info. No, I don't know terribly much about using
                > > indigo, I have never dyed fabrics before. But, having said that,
                my
                > > woman is inhumanly happy when using indigo, so I have an
                experienced
                > > dyer on hand. The results do sound quite interesting, but I
                didn't
                > > realize it would act that way, or that it was worked at
                cuirbouile
                > > temps. Don't think it will work for what I was hoping for. Of
                > > course, if anyone happens to get that rather toxic-sounding
                > > amonia/alcahol mix to work, please let me know.
                > >
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.