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Armor Weight Leather

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  • Liz Crandall
    Warmest Greeings Unto the Group, I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best weight for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 14, 2006
      Warmest Greeings Unto the Group,

      I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best weight
      for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce weight? They
      want to become archers. I know that they all have to have the same
      armor requirements as regular fighters. Just need to know what the
      leather weight requirement is?

      Also, does anyone know of a place to find leather cheap, exspecialy
      since we have to buy so much? Thanks for any help that I can get from
      this list.

      Also, Happy Valentines Day.

      Isabeau
    • Robert Huff
      ... In the U.S., leather is usually measured as ounces per square foot . One ounce corresponds - roughly - to 1/64th of an inch. ... I don t know that this
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 15, 2006
        Liz Crandall writes:

        > I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best weight
        > for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce weight?

        In the U.S., leather is usually measured as "ounces per square
        foot". One ounce corresponds - roughly - to 1/64th of an inch.

        > They
        > want to become archers. I know that they all have to have the same
        > armor requirements as regular fighters. Just need to know what the
        > leather weight requirement is?

        I don't know that this varies by kingdom, but local armor regs
        would certainly be a place to start.



        Robert Huff
      • ren_junkie
        I would suggest armour/sole bend leather. Ask for it by that name at the Leather Factory, or probably any leather retailer. It s heavy weight, compressed veg
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 15, 2006
          I would suggest armour/sole bend leather. Ask for it by that name at
          the Leather Factory, or probably any leather retailer. It's heavy
          weight, compressed veg tan leather. It is very tough...I mean they
          make shoe soles out of it. It's my understanding that this leather
          is heavy enough to qualify in all SCA kingdoms...tho I can't say for
          positive. If you use a cuir bouile process process it becomes
          hardened leather which I have always heard is good everywhere...as
          well as being historical. At least historical up to the 14thC.

          Get posterboard. Make patterns till you think you have it perfect.
          Trust me...getting the patterns as close as possible before you mark
          your first bit of leather will save you a ton of money, and save you
          from inventing new swear words.

          Best way to harden leather. Cut it out with a jig saw. It is far and
          away the easiest way to do it. Soak it in water till the bubbles
          stop. The bubbles are the air in the fibers escaping. When it is
          thouroughly soaked (give it a few hours), let it sit in the air for
          a while. This is called casing. This will prolly take a few hours,
          too. When it's cased, it will still feel cool or cold and damp, but
          it will hold its shape when you bend it. If you do it too early it
          will still be a bit floppy. Pactice this on some scrap from the
          leather you're using so you get a feel for how long it takes to case
          and what it feels like when it cases. Once cased, shape it.Then
          stick it in an oven set about 180 degrees farenheit. Dont go over
          200, and dont go under 150. If it hits 212, the water boils, and you
          risk real problems, such as unexpected shrinkage. Sit it on an
          aluminum oven seet, or about 8 layers of aluminum foil, or a thin
          piece of wood. You risk burn spots if you dont do this. Check the
          piece every 15-20 min to make sure the shape is still good. If the
          shape has altered any, work it back into the right shape. Also,
          watch for spots that get crispy. If any part is crispy, take it out.
          The crispy bits weaken the leather dramatically. Keep baking and
          checking untill you get the rigidity you want. Then let it sit for
          about 24 or 48 hours in the air to make sure its completely dried.
          Again, practice with your scraps. Practice your dying on the scraps.
          Scraps are your friends...lol.

          There are other ways to do it, but this is the easiest, most
          forgiving way to do it, and you don't have to play with hot water or
          hot waxes. Some guys like the other methods, but I've never been
          burned by baking leather. It also ensures even saturation in a
          material that is notoriously inconsistient (it's skin, so the
          thickness varries.

          Course if you don't want to harden the leather, just soak it, let it
          case, shape it, and let it dry for a day or so.

          As far as cheap goes....It's not. Some places sell cheaper than
          others, but it's not cheap. A sole bend is sold by the pound, as
          opposed to the normal square footage.For example, 9-10 ounce lether
          is sold by the square foot, often in sides about 22-25 square feet.
          For sole bends it's x dollars per pound. You can buy them online (if
          you go that way, try http://www.brettunsvillage.com/ . Good prices)
          I would suggest going to a supplier tho to see the leather before
          you buy so you know exactly what you're getting. I like to make sure
          there are not a lot of rangemarks and brands (again, it's skin,
          there will be scars). A sole bend will run you over $100 a side.
          Armour is not a cheap thing to get into, whether you make it or buy
          it.

          Having said that, I think it's a great idea. It's fun, and a good
          skill for a re-enactor to have. Just don't think you're gonna get
          out of this for like 75 or a hundred bucks. But if you're careful,
          and not a giant like me, you can get your full suit of armour for
          less than a good breasplate.

          Ask the people at the leather place you get your stuff at to explain
          how to use the dyes and stuff. I could explain it, but I'd be
          surprised if you haven't fallen asleep reading my little novel
          here...lol.

          Hope it helps. I apologize for the length.

          Christopher

          --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Crandall"
          <keeperofthetriloch@...> wrote:
          >
          > Warmest Greeings Unto the Group,
          >
          > I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best
          weight
          > for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce weight?
          They
          > want to become archers. I know that they all have to have the same
          > armor requirements as regular fighters. Just need to know what the
          > leather weight requirement is?
          >
          > Also, does anyone know of a place to find leather cheap,
          exspecialy
          > since we have to buy so much? Thanks for any help that I can get
          from
          > this list.
          >
          > Also, Happy Valentines Day.
          >
          > Isabeau
          >
        • khailil1180@sbcglobal.net
          If I may be of assistance. (I ll get this one Terry) Armor bends are the only type of leather still sold by weight. Everything else is sold by the square
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 15, 2006
            If I may be of assistance.
            (I'll get this one Terry)

            Armor bends are the only type of leather still sold by weight. Everything
            else is sold by the square foot. An Armor bend is a very expensive, very
            heavy piece of leather. It's best suited for shoe soles & is twice as
            thick as needed for SCA armor, the retail cost of armor bends is $8.48 a
            pound.
            But I digress.
            So your average armor bend will weigh between 14 and 17 pounds. Average
            cost $140.00 plus tax and about $15.00 shipping. Your best bet is to
            purchase a "Select import saddle skirting" Stock # 9047-02. They have twice
            the square footage as a armor bend, are almost as thick and sale for half
            the cost. They are also alot easier to work with, can be cut with a average
            utility knife.
            The price is good till the end of this month, on sale for $69.99. How do I
            know all this, I work for Tandy Leather Factory & have been a SCA knight's
            marshall. Need more information, call me. Wayne at the Tandy Leather
            Factory. 1-800-541-2031. Will personally pick you out a premium side.




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "ren_junkie" <ren_junkie@...>
            To: <medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:15 AM
            Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Armor Weight Leather


            >I would suggest armour/sole bend leather. Ask for it by that name at
            > the Leather Factory, or probably any leather retailer. It's heavy
            > weight, compressed veg tan leather. It is very tough...I mean they
            > make shoe soles out of it. It's my understanding that this leather
            > is heavy enough to qualify in all SCA kingdoms...tho I can't say for
            > positive. If you use a cuir bouile process process it becomes
            > hardened leather which I have always heard is good everywhere...as
            > well as being historical. At least historical up to the 14thC.
            >
            > Get posterboard. Make patterns till you think you have it perfect.
            > Trust me...getting the patterns as close as possible before you mark
            > your first bit of leather will save you a ton of money, and save you
            > from inventing new swear words.
            >
            > Best way to harden leather. Cut it out with a jig saw. It is far and
            > away the easiest way to do it. Soak it in water till the bubbles
            > stop. The bubbles are the air in the fibers escaping. When it is
            > thouroughly soaked (give it a few hours), let it sit in the air for
            > a while. This is called casing. This will prolly take a few hours,
            > too. When it's cased, it will still feel cool or cold and damp, but
            > it will hold its shape when you bend it. If you do it too early it
            > will still be a bit floppy. Pactice this on some scrap from the
            > leather you're using so you get a feel for how long it takes to case
            > and what it feels like when it cases. Once cased, shape it.Then
            > stick it in an oven set about 180 degrees farenheit. Dont go over
            > 200, and dont go under 150. If it hits 212, the water boils, and you
            > risk real problems, such as unexpected shrinkage. Sit it on an
            > aluminum oven seet, or about 8 layers of aluminum foil, or a thin
            > piece of wood. You risk burn spots if you dont do this. Check the
            > piece every 15-20 min to make sure the shape is still good. If the
            > shape has altered any, work it back into the right shape. Also,
            > watch for spots that get crispy. If any part is crispy, take it out.
            > The crispy bits weaken the leather dramatically. Keep baking and
            > checking untill you get the rigidity you want. Then let it sit for
            > about 24 or 48 hours in the air to make sure its completely dried.
            > Again, practice with your scraps. Practice your dying on the scraps.
            > Scraps are your friends...lol.
            >
            > There are other ways to do it, but this is the easiest, most
            > forgiving way to do it, and you don't have to play with hot water or
            > hot waxes. Some guys like the other methods, but I've never been
            > burned by baking leather. It also ensures even saturation in a
            > material that is notoriously inconsistient (it's skin, so the
            > thickness varries.
            >
            > Course if you don't want to harden the leather, just soak it, let it
            > case, shape it, and let it dry for a day or so.
            >
            > As far as cheap goes....It's not. Some places sell cheaper than
            > others, but it's not cheap. A sole bend is sold by the pound, as
            > opposed to the normal square footage.For example, 9-10 ounce lether
            > is sold by the square foot, often in sides about 22-25 square feet.
            > For sole bends it's x dollars per pound. You can buy them online (if
            > you go that way, try http://www.brettunsvillage.com/ . Good prices)
            > I would suggest going to a supplier tho to see the leather before
            > you buy so you know exactly what you're getting. I like to make sure
            > there are not a lot of rangemarks and brands (again, it's skin,
            > there will be scars). A sole bend will run you over $100 a side.
            > Armour is not a cheap thing to get into, whether you make it or buy
            > it.
            >
            > Having said that, I think it's a great idea. It's fun, and a good
            > skill for a re-enactor to have. Just don't think you're gonna get
            > out of this for like 75 or a hundred bucks. But if you're careful,
            > and not a giant like me, you can get your full suit of armour for
            > less than a good breasplate.
            >
            > Ask the people at the leather place you get your stuff at to explain
            > how to use the dyes and stuff. I could explain it, but I'd be
            > surprised if you haven't fallen asleep reading my little novel
            > here...lol.
            >
            > Hope it helps. I apologize for the length.
            >
            > Christopher
            >
            > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Crandall"
            > <keeperofthetriloch@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Warmest Greeings Unto the Group,
            >>
            >> I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best
            > weight
            >> for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce weight?
            > They
            >> want to become archers. I know that they all have to have the same
            >> armor requirements as regular fighters. Just need to know what the
            >> leather weight requirement is?
            >>
            >> Also, does anyone know of a place to find leather cheap,
            > exspecialy
            >> since we have to buy so much? Thanks for any help that I can get
            > from
            >> this list.
            >>
            >> Also, Happy Valentines Day.
            >>
            >> Isabeau
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Ron Charlotte
            ... Just to give you a useable translation point: 1oz leather = 1/64 inch. 1 iron (which is the traditional measure for sole leather) is 1/48 inch. Saddle
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 16, 2006
              At 12:45 AM 2/15/2006, Isabeau wrote:
              >Warmest Greeings Unto the Group,
              >
              >I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best weight
              >for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce weight? They
              >want to become archers. I know that they all have to have the same
              >armor requirements as regular fighters. Just need to know what the
              >leather weight requirement is?

              Just to give you a useable translation point: 1oz leather = 1/64 inch. 1
              iron (which is the traditional measure for sole leather) is 1/48 inch.

              Saddle skirting grade will do the trick, as will most any leather sold as
              sole leather. The absolute lightest you should consider, unless you are
              just using it as a backing for something like a coat of plates, is in the
              10-12oz range


              Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
              ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
            • ren_junkie
              If you use saddle skirting, be watchful of it. I was using skirting for my first round of armour to just get a feel for how it all should be proportioned and
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 17, 2006
                If you use saddle skirting, be watchful of it. I was using skirting
                for my first round of armour to just get a feel for how it all
                should be proportioned and stuff. But, skirting can go from insanely
                thick (which is good for armour-I've had parts that wind up well
                over 1/4 inch) to less than half the thickness on the same side.
                It's still plenty usable, but you deifinitely want to take a lot of
                extra care in laying out the patterns for your pieces. The thinner
                bits still make good armour, but you'll want to try and stay as
                consitient in each piece of armour as you can. In other words, use
                the thinner parts for the stronger areas of your body and places
                where you won't get hit as hard, and the consitiently thick bits for
                your softer and more vital areas.

                I had forgotten about skirting, since I moved away from it for more
                consitient sides. But for beginning, it probably is the best value.
                It's just got a lot more variation than the armour/sole bends have,
                but still plenty servicable for most people making their first
                harness. If you go with the skirting DEFINITELY go pick it out in
                person. I was saved a lot of grief by doing this. There are a lot of
                skirtings that have outrageous range marks (scars on the hide). Also
                if you go to a leather retailer (Like Tandy/Leather Factory), they
                can teach you how to judge consitiencey in the leather, and that is
                a valuable valuable thing to know. At least if the salesperson is
                worth anything, they'll teach you...lol I'd be lost without the
                advice they've given me since I started with this stuff.

                Christopher

                --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, <khailil1180@...> wrote:
                >
                > If I may be of assistance.
                > (I'll get this one Terry)
                >
                > Armor bends are the only type of leather still sold by weight.
                Everything
                > else is sold by the square foot. An Armor bend is a very
                expensive, very
                > heavy piece of leather. It's best suited for shoe soles & is
                twice as
                > thick as needed for SCA armor, the retail cost of armor bends is
                $8.48 a
                > pound.
                > But I digress.
                > So your average armor bend will weigh between 14 and 17 pounds.
                Average
                > cost $140.00 plus tax and about $15.00 shipping. Your best bet
                is to
                > purchase a "Select import saddle skirting" Stock # 9047-02. They
                have twice
                > the square footage as a armor bend, are almost as thick and sale
                for half
                > the cost. They are also alot easier to work with, can be cut with
                a average
                > utility knife.
                > The price is good till the end of this month, on sale for
                $69.99. How do I
                > know all this, I work for Tandy Leather Factory & have been a SCA
                knight's
                > marshall. Need more information, call me. Wayne at the Tandy
                Leather
                > Factory. 1-800-541-2031. Will personally pick you out a
                premium side.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "ren_junkie" <ren_junkie@...>
                > To: <medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:15 AM
                > Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Armor Weight Leather
                >
                >
                > >I would suggest armour/sole bend leather. Ask for it by that name
                at
                > > the Leather Factory, or probably any leather retailer. It's heavy
                > > weight, compressed veg tan leather. It is very tough...I mean
                they
                > > make shoe soles out of it. It's my understanding that this
                leather
                > > is heavy enough to qualify in all SCA kingdoms...tho I can't say
                for
                > > positive. If you use a cuir bouile process process it becomes
                > > hardened leather which I have always heard is good
                everywhere...as
                > > well as being historical. At least historical up to the 14thC.
                > >
                > > Get posterboard. Make patterns till you think you have it
                perfect.
                > > Trust me...getting the patterns as close as possible before you
                mark
                > > your first bit of leather will save you a ton of money, and save
                you
                > > from inventing new swear words.
                > >
                > > Best way to harden leather. Cut it out with a jig saw. It is far
                and
                > > away the easiest way to do it. Soak it in water till the bubbles
                > > stop. The bubbles are the air in the fibers escaping. When it is
                > > thouroughly soaked (give it a few hours), let it sit in the air
                for
                > > a while. This is called casing. This will prolly take a few
                hours,
                > > too. When it's cased, it will still feel cool or cold and damp,
                but
                > > it will hold its shape when you bend it. If you do it too early
                it
                > > will still be a bit floppy. Pactice this on some scrap from the
                > > leather you're using so you get a feel for how long it takes to
                case
                > > and what it feels like when it cases. Once cased, shape it.Then
                > > stick it in an oven set about 180 degrees farenheit. Dont go over
                > > 200, and dont go under 150. If it hits 212, the water boils, and
                you
                > > risk real problems, such as unexpected shrinkage. Sit it on an
                > > aluminum oven seet, or about 8 layers of aluminum foil, or a thin
                > > piece of wood. You risk burn spots if you dont do this. Check the
                > > piece every 15-20 min to make sure the shape is still good. If
                the
                > > shape has altered any, work it back into the right shape. Also,
                > > watch for spots that get crispy. If any part is crispy, take it
                out.
                > > The crispy bits weaken the leather dramatically. Keep baking and
                > > checking untill you get the rigidity you want. Then let it sit
                for
                > > about 24 or 48 hours in the air to make sure its completely
                dried.
                > > Again, practice with your scraps. Practice your dying on the
                scraps.
                > > Scraps are your friends...lol.
                > >
                > > There are other ways to do it, but this is the easiest, most
                > > forgiving way to do it, and you don't have to play with hot
                water or
                > > hot waxes. Some guys like the other methods, but I've never been
                > > burned by baking leather. It also ensures even saturation in a
                > > material that is notoriously inconsistient (it's skin, so the
                > > thickness varries.
                > >
                > > Course if you don't want to harden the leather, just soak it,
                let it
                > > case, shape it, and let it dry for a day or so.
                > >
                > > As far as cheap goes....It's not. Some places sell cheaper than
                > > others, but it's not cheap. A sole bend is sold by the pound, as
                > > opposed to the normal square footage.For example, 9-10 ounce
                lether
                > > is sold by the square foot, often in sides about 22-25 square
                feet.
                > > For sole bends it's x dollars per pound. You can buy them online
                (if
                > > you go that way, try http://www.brettunsvillage.com/ . Good
                prices)
                > > I would suggest going to a supplier tho to see the leather before
                > > you buy so you know exactly what you're getting. I like to make
                sure
                > > there are not a lot of rangemarks and brands (again, it's skin,
                > > there will be scars). A sole bend will run you over $100 a side.
                > > Armour is not a cheap thing to get into, whether you make it or
                buy
                > > it.
                > >
                > > Having said that, I think it's a great idea. It's fun, and a good
                > > skill for a re-enactor to have. Just don't think you're gonna get
                > > out of this for like 75 or a hundred bucks. But if you're
                careful,
                > > and not a giant like me, you can get your full suit of armour for
                > > less than a good breasplate.
                > >
                > > Ask the people at the leather place you get your stuff at to
                explain
                > > how to use the dyes and stuff. I could explain it, but I'd be
                > > surprised if you haven't fallen asleep reading my little novel
                > > here...lol.
                > >
                > > Hope it helps. I apologize for the length.
                > >
                > > Christopher
                > >
                > > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, "Liz Crandall"
                > > <keeperofthetriloch@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> Warmest Greeings Unto the Group,
                > >>
                > >> I was aked by some of the guys in my group, what is the best
                > > weight
                > >> for armor leather. I believe that leather comes in ounce weight?
                > > They
                > >> want to become archers. I know that they all have to have the
                same
                > >> armor requirements as regular fighters. Just need to know what
                the
                > >> leather weight requirement is?
                > >>
                > >> Also, does anyone know of a place to find leather cheap,
                > > exspecialy
                > >> since we have to buy so much? Thanks for any help that I can get
                > > from
                > >> this list.
                > >>
                > >> Also, Happy Valentines Day.
                > >>
                > >> Isabeau
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
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