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Re: [medieval-leather] Digest Number 1403

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  • Jonathan Getty
    ... I had a chance to examine it about seven years ago, with the intention of finding out whether and what kind of tools might have been used. This is made
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 30, 2005
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      >Message: 2
      > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:29:57 -0800 (PST)
      > From: R Schooley <feketenoemi@...>
      >Subject: Irish Book Satchels
      >
      >I'm currently doing research on irish book satchels
      >and I've run into an interesting problem in the
      >description of the decoration on the satchel of the
      >Book of Armagh. Two of my sources (the article from
      >the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland and John
      >Waterer's article on the book satchels) describe the
      >decoration as being impressed or modelled possibly
      >with wood or bone tools, while a third source, The
      >Treasures of Ireland, suggests it was moulded over
      >over a wooden form. To add to the confusion I've also
      >run into someone who claims to have found a source
      >that states that it was done through a combination of
      >incising and stamping and uses it to justify using
      >modern tooling techniques.
      >
      >I'm working off of photocopies so none of the pictures
      >are clear enough for me to try to make my own guess.
      >Does anyone know of any sources that could shed a bit
      >more light on this?
      >
      >
      I had a chance to examine it about seven years ago, with the intention
      of finding out whether and what kind of tools might have been used.
      This is made much harder by the surface being severely cracked (on a
      fine scale). It was certainly worked from the outside, and the detail
      seemed more consistent with handtools than wood blocks. Some of the
      lines that define the edges of the knotwork stripes seem to have been
      cut, though it's possible that they were impressed with a blunt tool and
      cracked along these lines over time. The edges of the stripes are
      beveled somehow; but I didn't see the sort of marks a modern beveler
      leaves-- more likely they were smoothed down with a hand tool like a
      modeling spoon. The background was harder to judge, due to the
      cracking, but I didn't see stamping marks. It was lower than the
      foreground areas, which could be done by manually pressing down the
      background.

      Incidentally, it's probably my leather carving handout that mentions the
      Armagh satchel. My point was that the cut, bevel, background style has
      been around for a long time, rather than to justify modern tooling. I
      should probably rephrase that paragraph appropriately.

      Jon
    • R Schooley
      ... with the ... tools might ... surface being ... certainly worked ... consistent with ... define the ... though ... tool and ... the sort of ... were
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 1, 2005
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        --- Jonathan Getty <beans@...> wrote:
        > I had a chance to examine it about seven years ago,
        with the
        > intention of finding out whether and what kind of
        tools might
        > have been used. This is made much harder by the
        surface being
        > severely cracked (on a fine scale). It was
        certainly worked
        > from the outside, and the detail seemed more
        consistent with
        > handtools than wood blocks. Some of the lines that
        define the
        > edges of the knotwork stripes seem to have been cut,
        though
        > it's possible that they were impressed with a blunt
        tool and
        > cracked along these lines over time. The edges of
        > the stripes are beveled somehow; but I didn't see
        the sort of
        > marks a modern beveler leaves-- more likely they
        were smoothed
        > down with a hand tool like a modeling spoon. The
        background
        > was harder to judge, due to the cracking, but I
        didn't see
        > stamping marks. It was lower than the foreground
        areas, which
        > could be done by manually pressing down the
        background.

        Thank you so much! That helps me quite a bit. I am
        looking at making one of these satchels, and while I
        wanted to design my own knotwork rather than copy what
        is on one of the existant pieces I wanted to make sure
        I did the tooling correctly. I was looking at making
        my tools for the project as well, but I'm not sure how
        I'd make something that worked like a modeling spoon.
        I guess I'll have to play around with that part of it.


        > Incidentally, it's probably my leather carving
        handout that
        > mentions the Armagh satchel. My point was that the
        cut, bevel,
        > background style has been around for a long time,
        rather than
        > to justify modern tooling.

        It's entirely possible that is where he found it. He
        said he found it on the internet somewhere but hasn't
        ever gotten back to me with a website to look at for
        myself. Do you know if that handout is on the web
        anywhere?

        Noemi



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      • Marc Carlson
        ... Possibly at http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/toolingclass.html Marc
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 2, 2005
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          --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, R Schooley <feketenoemi@y...>
          wrote:
          > ...It's entirely possible that is where he found it. He
          > said he found it on the internet somewhere but hasn't
          > ever gotten back to me with a website to look at for
          > myself. Do you know if that handout is on the web
          > anywhere?

          Possibly at
          http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/toolingclass.html

          Marc
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