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4622Re: Period Shooting - armguards

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  • rmhowe
    Jul 1, 2001
      I'm sending this a day later - I've been thinking about how
      to post the article to the net. I don't have a website.
      I did attend a couple of copyright seminars a few years
      ago. However, Mickey Mouse, championed by one of our North
      Carolina senators (Coble) got another twenty years added
      on to copyrights last year. The tree got Sony Bono who
      was also in on this.

      As I understood it, previously, stuff prior to 1979 had
      75 years of copyright. Mickey was born in 1928. Disney
      got another twenty years. The problem is I'm not sure of
      the status of something printed in 1922. Last year I would
      have felt pretty safe. Now I need someone to tell me.
      Or else someone else post it. A lawsuit from a still operating
      Society is something I don't need.

      I know that current authors since 1979 get life plus 50 years.
      Or at least they did. I think they were pushing for 75.

      If this sounds a bit safety oriented it is. But then again I
      managed to convince someone to reprint the Mastermyr Find
      last year and this year I've provided original articles on
      early chests to be reprinted by someone else. 1907/12 I feel
      safe on.

      Who knows what the cut-off date is for the first of the century?
      Cite me an up-to-date webpage I can look at.

      Jonathan T Getty wrote:
      > A few questions about this bracer, Magnus...
      > First, is there a more modern citation for a picture of this
      > UCSB didn't exist until 1950-something, so no 1920's journals in
      > library. (it's been 78 years, can you post it to the list?)

      I'm a disabled craftsman, working from home.
      I don't have a scanner set up to copy, and I don't have the
      necessary experience in office skills. If I did I'd have a whopper
      of a website, but I don't have html training either.

      I don't recall seeing as good an offside view or a flat view as
      this particular one has. It's a line drawing in either event
      so I couldn't tell you more than the design shape.

      Basically square with coves cut at the corners.
      Design on the half facing in toward the user's body, with a
      beaded rim around the outside, or at least a lined groove
      around the edge. Actually, perhaps the design was worn out,
      like a modern military badge, and the smooth side in - unless
      you need to remind someone who they are fighting for -this-

      You could try interlibrary loan. I did give a complete citation,
      which is more than I get frequently. I absolutely love looking
      for something for years that sounded like a book, but was an
      article in a collection of articles in a book with an odd name.
      Festshrift for Otto Schwartz on his 50th Birthday (made up).
      I generally eventually find the complete citation by reading
      bibliographies in -some new to me- book.

      > Was the bracer tooled or stamped in a single pressing? Most of
      > my leather carving is of the cut, bevel, background ilk, so it
      > sounds like fun reproduction. Any idea if this bracer design
      > was mass-produced (standard issue sort of thing) or a one-off?
      > Jon/Todde

      It's late enough in period that they knew about movable type so
      I wouldn't discount it. Certainly bookstamps were known and
      medieval pottery stamps, and say for example - Fruit and wine
      presses. People knew no doubt how to use a lever and block
      printing was already known. Henry VIII's reign was rather late.
      Using this hypothesis you could fairly easily design a press.
      It wouldn't have to be screwed.

      The use of matrices and patrices to make stamped sheet metal
      dress and helmet accessories was well known. They were generally
      thickly cast tiles of copper alloy - the metal sheet was placed
      across them and a layer of lead was put atop and hammered to
      impress the foil onto/into the design. This is a technique
      going at least back to the Greeks - the Scythian and Thracian
      treasures were made frequently this way, so were the Valsgarde
      pre-Viking Age helmet plaques.

      The idea of using impression stamps for leather is not original
      with me. I learned it from one of a couple of Encyclopedias of
      Crafting or some such title, currently buried behind a bunch of

      One of the guys on the Authenticity list cited a horn bracer
      found on the Mary Rose, along with eleven leather bracers.
      I looked and have:
      Margaret Rule's _Mary Rose_
      Alexander McKee's _How We Found the Mary Rose_
      The Mary Rose travelling _Exhibition Catalog_
      The two _National Geographic_ Articles
      One from _Discover Magazine_
      One from _Popular Mechanics_ on the raising only.
      What's in Bradbury's _The English Medieval Archer_
      Thomas Hardy's _History of the Longbow_, with a chapter on the
      Mary Rose, recently updated again I understand.

      What's in these produced two or three further designs for
      bracers - none as good as the one in the article, generally
      small and indistinct views. I really wish the Mary Rose
      Trust would issue a much better book.

      I happened to look today because the other guy has information
      somewhere (like me) on the horn bracer, which appeared in NONE
      of the books. There were a number of leather items, like a
      jack, a shoe or two, a leather bottel, the big leather arrow
      spacer discs for a couple dozen.

      Apparently they may have been mass produced, as some were
      apparently from the Queen Mother's reign, at least they were said
      to have her pomegranite symbol on them. One of the small drawings
      had multiple round designs stamped across it in four or so
      rows, but did not look to me like it was impressed.
      Another seemed to be slightly familiar to the Dalton bracer
      and in my opinion could have been impressed. Of the eleven
      leather bracers I saw maybe three. Maybe because of condition,
      maybe because of duplication.

      Figure these were being mass manufactured and stored for use
      in multiple depots over the kingdom, and Henry's time was
      a fairly tempestuous one, as were the preceding reigns. Henry
      was fighting France for part of it. So, given the slim survivals
      of the stuff, I'd have to assume it was fairly likely.
      I mean they required things like six feathers from every goose
      in the kingdom, amassed many tens of thousands, possibly over
      a million arrows, in various store houses, every ship delivering
      wine to England also had to also import yew bow staves from Spain
      and Italy, large numbers of arrowheads were also produced.
      A competent archer might shoot ten per minute or more.
      Keeping them in supplies during a battle necessitated wagons
      full of arrows. Figure thousands of archers. A fantastic
      number of arrows raining on the enemy, and their maddened steeds.
      Eye slits were small for a very good reason.

      So you have what? You have a literal industry in various parts
      of the country producing enough stuff to shoot possibly hundreds
      of thousands of arrows in a medieval battle. No wonder the French
      never had much of a chance at Crecy, Potiers, and Agincourt.
      (Why they repeated the experience is beyond me.)
      I see no reason that armguards (and the Dalton one looks very
      standardized) to have standardized designs. Stamp it, cut around
      it, put on the straps.

      I used to make furniture. I needed large numbers of parts.
      I kept shelves full and I standardized how I made them.
      The tenons I cut, and I sometimes cut hundreds of tenons on
      stretchers and aprons a day, I could keep within 5 thousandths
      of an inch. I could have dry assembled my furniture and pegged
      it without the glue. And I cut several hours worth of time off
      each piece of my predecessor. You probably wouldn't believe
      how fast I could cut tenons and shoulders. Three sides of each
      tenon in twenty seconds, piled to cut the fourth side after
      I moved my jig/fence it slid on later.

      Why would medieval craftsmen be different? Their world was more
      regulated, but they sure as hell weren't stupid, and they likely
      got paid per piece - especially in the case of archery munitions.
      The bows were in boxes, just like modern guns are shipped and
      delivered, right from the storehouses.

      Their master craftmen's work is difficult for our master craftsmen
      to duplicate now. Winchester candlestand anyone? How about a
      magnificent silver ship nef for the table?

      Prior to Mary Rose there were only a couple of arrows that
      could be said to be medieval, and perhaps a bow or two.
      Mary Rose produced about two hundred bows, a couple thousand
      arrows, and attendant gear. Most of the horn string nocks didn't
      survive but a couple did, and the lighter shadow markings in
      the places where they were is there. One arrowhead - very
      rusted survived. So - a literal treasure trove.

      > > I do have the original article on the leather Henry VIII
      > > I've scaled it up to right size and at some point I may redo
      > > the design to reflect our Windmasters Hill Baronial Archery
      > > or the Atlantian archery groups in general, by carving the
      > > design into a linoleum block and using a large wood vise or a
      > > press to impress it into the leather. Archers here are very
      > > - I got a lot of practice carving linoleum blocks when I was
      > > a teenage artist. I did dozens of the things - mostly animals.
      > >
      > > Dalton, O. M.: A Late Medieval Bracer in the British Museum;
      > > in the _Antiquaries Journal July, 1922, (Vol. II, No. 3)_
      > > reprint, pp. 208-10 with illustration. Archery.
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