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10637Re: Wax OR water hardening leather.

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  • ren_junkie
    Mar 2, 2006
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      In my experience baking the leather does not cause it to shrink
      nearly as much as the dipping in hot water method. It also cause a
      lot less discoloration.

      You have trouble with the leather drying before you bake it? never
      heard of that before. You need to soak it thoroughly before you do
      anything with it. It should be in a bucket or a tub or something,
      and soak till it stops bubbling. If the water isn't permiated all
      the way thru, it woun't get as rigid as it ought. If you soaked it
      right it will take a long time before it is even cased. Usually it's
      hours after getting out of the water with my pieces before they're
      cased. Then just do the baking at about 180. Dipping in hot water
      does make it stretchy for a a while, but it usually doesn't soak all
      the way thru (even tho it gets VERY rigid), hot water can suck
      (owie), and the shrinkage is worse. It also is very hard to do that
      with a breastplate. Sides, stretching thins the leather, making it a
      bit weaker. If you hammer it, it compresses rather than stretches
      allowing you to move leather to the spots you need more thickness
      at, and it compresses it giving you better density.

      Saddle lac after 20 minutes? I didn't know you could do that. Do you
      keep baking after the saddle lac application? After 20 minutes my
      leather is still often a bit floppy. My bake times go on usually for
      hours, checking every 20 min. I've heard that rabbit glue works
      great applied every 20 min or so of baking till it's dried. What's
      you're ebay store?


      --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, <khailil1180@...> wrote:
      > My final comment. On this subject.
      > The hardened leather items I sell on my Ebay store are treated
      this way.
      > This process is for veg tanned leather only. I fully make the
      piece, what
      > ever it may be. Tool, dye and assemble.
      > *** soak it throughly in a bucket of water. Then preheat
      theoven to 180
      > degrees. Set the timer for about 20 minutes and let them bake...
      take them
      > out and let them air dry for a bit than spray them with saddle
      lac.( It's a
      > lacquer based finish, that will harden the leather somewhat.)
      > . Say what you want, but this is what works for me. But that is
      > leather work is all about. There is no one set way to do
      anything. There
      > are many paths to ones desired results. That is a big part of my
      day job at
      > Tandy, instructing people how to get from point A to Point B
      with their
      > project. Plus I have to factor in skill level & how much someone
      is willing
      > to spend.
      > Thats my story, Im sticking to it.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Alasdair Muckart" <silver@...>
      > To: <medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 12:45 PM
      > Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Wax OR water hardening leather.
      > > On Wednesday 01 March 2006 23:14, Jon Terris wrote:
      > >> --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, <khailil1180@> wrote:
      > >> > Have to agree, veg tanned works best when water hardened.
      > >>
      > >> Is that the general consensus?
      > >
      > > I say "it depends". You can't water harden chrome-tanned
      leather, and you
      > > can't mould wax-hardened leather the way you can with water
      hardened veg
      > > tan.
      > > Veg tan goes _really_ floppy and stretchy for a while after it
      comes out
      > > of
      > > the hot water -- even more so than when soaked in cold water --
      and can be
      > > moulded into quite deep shapes that you can't do with chrome
      > > leather.
      > >
      > >> Does water hardening give a more rigid leather than wax
      > >
      > > When it's warm, yes. When cold, not significantly but it all
      depends on
      > > the
      > > leather, the wax, and the degree of water hardening.
      > >
      > >> If so, will the technique of heating the leather and THEN
      > >> water work or does it have to be dipped?
      > >
      > > Water hardening is a very different process to wax hardening.
      You want to
      > > (gently) heat the leather before wax hardening to make sure it
      is dry so
      > > you
      > > don't get inadvertent water hardening happening when damp
      patches hit the
      > > hot
      > > wax. Having it warm also allows the wax to penetrate better
      before it
      > > cools
      > > down.
      > >
      > > When water hardening, I've had more consistent results dipping
      rather than
      > > baking because I've had it dry out before it all really came up
      to temp. I
      > > soak the leather in warm water first and then dip it into 80c
      water to
      > > harden
      > > it. Keep careful control over the temperature, and read a whole
      > > about
      > > the subject before you try it :-)
      > >
      > >> Again, I'm worried about ruining the work I've done so far- my
      > >> experience of water dipped leather came out hard but VERY
      > >
      > > The key thing to remember is that leather shrinks by around 30%
      when water
      > > hardened. If you've built something without planning to water
      harden it
      > > from
      > > the outset, then it's possibly not the best thing to do.
      > >
      > > Because of the shrinkage, water hardening carved or incised
      leather causes
      > > the
      > > incisions to open very noticeably and the carving to distort.
      Try it out
      > > on
      > > some scrap and you'll see what I mean. This shrinkage varies
      depending on
      > > what part of the hide you're working with too.
      > >
      > >> Anyone have any advice on the safest way to do this without
      > >> everything?
      > >
      > > Read lots on it. Test pieces of different leathers, different
      areas of the
      > > hide, different carving, different temperatures of water and log
      > > conditions and the results. Practice on larger differently
      shaped pieces
      > > until you feel confident.
      > >
      > > --
      > > Al.
      > > http://where.else.net.nz
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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