Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [mc505] samplah shtuff

Expand Messages
  • mojo tek
    Hey drK so a power user from wayback eh? any other hints and tips? hmmmm... seems like there is no escape from the 250 meg limit? and on the subject of
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 1 12:23 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hey drK
      so a power user from wayback eh?
      any other hints and tips? hmmmm...


      seems like there is no escape from the 250 meg limit? and on the subject of
      zip/jazz what is the actual difference between the media? (size and shape
      already noted ;)
      i dont know how these things work, is it part of the OS that controls the
      partition size or would it be an onbard rom that handles that kinda info?
      seems like the a6 would sit nicely beside an 808 at anyrate without the loss
      of the A6 OS...what the real question is, how can edirol pass out the a6 so
      much cheaper than roland can the sp808...does the dbeam really cost that
      much? maybe seethru plastic and pink colouring cost a fortune...

      _________________________________________________________________
      Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
      http://www.hotmail.com
    • drK
      ... Probably, if I can remember them! I really stopped using the SP808 except as a funky mixer when I got the VS1680 almost 2 years ago. But I really used to
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 1 10:32 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        >
        > Hey drK
        > so a power user from wayback eh?
        > any other hints and tips? hmmmm...
        >

        Probably, if I can remember them! I really stopped using the SP808 except
        as a funky mixer when I got the VS1680 almost 2 years ago. But I really
        used to use it for everything, from composition, to editing raw "live"
        performances, even did the mastering for two CDs on it. There is a definite
        zen to it and if you are of the frame of mind to milk it fro everything it
        has it really is very capable. The only reason I even moved to the VS1680
        was to gain more simultaneous record inputs.
        >
        > seems like there is no escape from the 250 meg limit?

        well that needs to be verified, but yes, it is a limitation that there is no
        work around, short of actually hacking the OS - good luck ;-)

        >and on the subject of
        > zip/jazz what is the actual difference between the media? (size and shape
        > already noted ;)

        Two different technologies. The ZIPs are really over-sized floppies. The
        media is flexible and floats the head above the surface because of the
        aerodynamics (Bernoulli effect - in fact the great granddaddy of the ZIPs
        were the Bernoulli drives made by Iomega way back when).

        Jazz is related to hard disk technology. the recording surface is rigid.
        This allows higher densities and faster rotational rates 9and hence data
        transfers) but creates two reliability issues. First is that the drives can
        'crash' - head into the surface - due to vibration, which will cause disk to
        fail. The ZIPs also suffer from this, but less so because the flexible
        media is more forgiving. the second issue is that the Jazz cartridge must
        open up to outside air to allow the head mechanism to enter. Hard drives
        are normally made in extremely high clean rooms because dust is fatal to a
        hard drive (a spec between the head and surface will score the surface of
        both). Jazz drives are prone to this same issue. In some regards it is
        amazing that drives like Jazz work at all.

        hard media removable drives are inherently unreliable and should not be used
        for any type of data backup. This includes not only Jazz, but also the now
        deceased syquest brand, and the newer Castle orb drives. A quick scan of
        the news archives at Google.com will reveal lots of reliability issues.
        syquest went out of business because their low cost 1GB drive was such a
        reliability problem.

        ZIPs are a tad better, but from experience they still should not be used for
        more than short-term storage, working storage, data transport.

        Personally the 250MB ZIP was nearly idea on the SP808 in that I could do
        over an hour of recording in stereo on one cartridge. This made it possible
        to record an entire CD's worth of tracks in a final mixed form. And it is
        more than adequate for any type of single song composition. actual, the
        "old" 100MB ZIPs handled this. So the benefit of the larger HDD is
        questionable in my mind, though I can see the appeal for convenience.

        > i dont know how these things work, is it part of the OS that controls the
        > partition size or would it be an onbard rom that handles that kinda info?

        Its the code in the OS. You will find that most musical instrument OS's
        reflect older DOS-like designs in their limitations. Time was that 500MB
        HDDs were the biggest DOS could handle 9and we used to have before that a
        32MB limit, so a large HDD of 250MB would end up partitioned 8 ways). More
        recent instruments have overcome the limitations somewhat, though a 2GB
        partition limit is still pretty common. I would hazard a guess that a lot
        of the file management and disk code in a current Roland or Korg or Yamaha
        product is over five years old.

        File lengths are another "hidden" limitation in most hardware devices.
        Again, up until very recently Windows had a 2GB file length limitation.
        Normally this isn't an issue in audio (3+ hours) but the limit is there.

        The other thing is that on something like this the complexity of handling
        the bigger drives is never broached if there is no need. Since Roland
        conceived the SP808 as a ZIP based device it never even looked at what it
        would take.

        The a6 is really more closely related to the VS840 than the SP808 OS-wise.
        They basically took a VS840 and shoved it into a SP808 package.

        > seems like the a6 would sit nicely beside an 808 at anyrate without the loss
        > of the A6 OS...what the real question is, how can edirol pass out the a6 so
        > much cheaper than roland can the sp808...does the dbeam really cost that
        > much? maybe seethru plastic and pink colouring cost a fortune...
        >

        Not sure that having the a6 and the Sp808 is a good or bad combination.
        Depends on what's the goal. For perspective, if the recording features of
        the A6 look attractive for the price, I would encourage researching what the
        going rate for used VS880 products are. I know that the VS1680 can be had
        for well under $1,000 so I suspect that its substantially less featured
        little brother is well below that, probably under $500 (or more).

        Why the cost difference? Well the D-beam hardware adds a bit, but not much.
        the D-beam royalty also adds something but hard to know what exactly that
        would be. So there is a bit of cost difference, but not enough to account
        for this difference. Most of it is the positioning of the product and its
        intended market. Roland tried to extend the SP808's life by introducing the
        well over priced SP808EX at the same price point of the original SP808. But
        the market changed a lot in the time since '98 when the SP808 first came
        out. My own approach 9had they asked me ;-) ) would have been to make the
        SP808EX a sub $800 SRP product. Today it really should be close to $600
        IMHO.

        BTW, Edirol and Roland are the same company, Edirol is a division focused on
        non-musical markets, primarily educational originally - hence the name.

        drK
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.