Re: White Ti and Tails...
> Might I bother the group for some down-to-earth information on Titanium?Ti conrods are used in lots of high end engines - they require
> 1) DIMENSIONAL STABILITY:
> How dimensionally stable is Ti?
good dim. stability and about the same temperatures.
> 2) SAVING OUR ENDANGERED SEALS:The brass / bronze will have a higher expansion rate.
> With the half-a-thou-per-side fit, if I stay within the given temp
> range, will the Ti rotor remain stable enough to keep the seal? I think
> the cylinder in which it will rotate will be brass or bronze.
> 3) CUTTING REMARKS:Quite similar to phosphorous bronze to machine.
> How "machineable" is Ti? If a machinist is already good with brass and
> aluminum, what kind of learning curve is required to get Ti to do his
> 4) SAFETY:Nothing special - it's pretty inert - they use it for joint
> What does one need to know to safely work with Ti?
replacements in humans.
> 5) TOOLING:Should be fine.
> What kind of tools and/or tooling would be required for a GOOD machinist
> with a brass/aluminum/steel background to be successful making my valve
> 6) A CAST OF THOUSANDS:Not easily & yes.
> I feel silly asking, but can this stuff be cast? ...or is machining the
> only route?
> 7) EXPENSE:Closer to US$100 than $10k.
> What does the stuff cost? To start, I'd need a "stick" of Ti, about
> 8-inches tall and about 1-inch diameter. Will this be $100 (US), or
> Please tell me what you think I'd need to know about Ti and theTi doesn't like to rub against itself ( i.e. - as conrods in a vee engine )
> handling/machining of it to get started on this project.
Silver plating is used to solve this problem.
Ti can't be hardened to the same degree as steel - TiNite coatings
( and similar ) are the way to go if you need a hard surface.
DRYSDALE MOTORCYCLE CO.
PH: +613 9562 4260
FAX: +613 9546 8938
750-V8 & 1000-V8 MOTORCYCLES,
2X2X2, RACECAR & CARBERRY-ENFIELD
V-TWIN SITE :
- I had an interesting conversation with a rep from
Timet, he said honda has somehow developed a heat
treat of sorts for their Ti valves everyone else is
using a ceramic coat.
> If you recognize galling problems in your
> application, you can try to ask a
> titanium-valve manufactor what coatings they use. Ti
> has extemely bad
> tribological properties...
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
- Thanks guys, for all the Ti information and websites. From what you're
telling me, the project sounds, with some study and preparation,
imminently do-able. Since you've gotten me this far, let me ask about
the valve body material.
If I make the rotor from Ti (low speed & VERY moderate temps) what
material should I consider for the valve body? Ian says the brass/bronze
valve body would expand faster than the Ti rotor (understandable) so
what considerations should I make between this (possibly slight?)
thermal expansion mismatch and ease of machining? I can easily have a
brass valve body machined and my probable go-to guy is already familiar
As far as that goes, what recommendations do you have for choosing
between brass and bronze?
The valve body is essentially a cylinder with pipes soldered (if brass)
into holes in the body, similar to 2-stroke ports. The valve will turn
about 90-degrees to line up the exit port paths differently with each
cyclical 1/4 turn.
jrc in SC
PS: I went to one Ti website that had about 20 (separate) pages of
articles covering Ti and all its properties, qualities, weight,
handling/machining procedures, etc. I captured all these as standalone
files, named them according to their content, and organized a small
index page, all running OFFLINE in my browser. Zipped, the whole thing
is about 600k in size. If anyone wants it, blast me an e-mail and I'll
send it out. Neat little resource, and the kind we used to pay $50 for!
- the dec. issue of racecar engineering has info on some
of the newer Ti alloys.
--- Ray and Sonja Crenshaw <raymanz93@...>
> Thanks guys, for all the Ti information and__________________________________
> websites. From what you're
> telling me, the project sounds, with some study and
> imminently do-able. Since you've gotten me this far,
> let me ask about
> the valve body material.
> If I make the rotor from Ti (low speed & VERY
> moderate temps) what
> material should I consider for the valve body? Ian
> says the brass/bronze
> valve body would expand faster than the Ti rotor
> (understandable) so
> what considerations should I make between this
> (possibly slight?)
> thermal expansion mismatch and ease of machining? I
> can easily have a
> brass valve body machined and my probable go-to guy
> is already familiar
> with it.
> As far as that goes, what recommendations do you
> have for choosing
> between brass and bronze?
> The valve body is essentially a cylinder with pipes
> soldered (if brass)
> into holes in the body, similar to 2-stroke ports.
> The valve will turn
> about 90-degrees to line up the exit port paths
> differently with each
> cyclical 1/4 turn.
> Thanks again,
> jrc in SC
> PS: I went to one Ti website that had about 20
> (separate) pages of
> articles covering Ti and all its properties,
> qualities, weight,
> handling/machining procedures, etc. I captured all
> these as standalone
> files, named them according to their content, and
> organized a small
> index page, all running OFFLINE in my browser.
> Zipped, the whole thing
> is about 600k in size. If anyone wants it, blast me
> an e-mail and I'll
> send it out. Neat little resource, and the kind we
> used to pay $50 for!
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- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Ray and Sonja Crenshaw"
>if the operating conditions are moderate, I'm wondering why the
> If I make the rotor from Ti (low speed & VERY moderate temps) >
interest in titanium?
If the valve is handling a medium with no lubricating qualities I'd
be looking hard at materials that are meant to run dry (plastics and
> As far as that goes, what recommendations do you have for choosingSome bronzes have many percent lead content, which can >>help<<
> between brass and bronze?
survival in times of poor lubrication. Some of The stronger, harder
bronzes MUST be well lubricated to avoid galling and seizure. Brass
is pretty until it gets old and green.
> if the operating conditions are moderate, I'mOne is weight. There will be four of these valve assemblies. The other
> wondering why the interest in titanium?
is the cool whiz-bang effect of my getting to work with Ti! However, you
pique my curiosity with this next part:
> If the valve is handling a medium with no lubricating qualities I'dI am completely out of my element here, but I'm very interested. With
> be looking hard at materials that are meant to run dry (plastics and
> metal/plastic composites)
1/2 a thousandths-inch clearance, dimensional stability is just as
important as weight, and "machineability" is next most important.
Point me towards the right material and I'll look into it. If it's
lighter than brass, I'm interested.
Thanks, this is neat getting all these tips and ideas from "the field."