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Re: Diesel Motorcycle Experiments at Cranfield University

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  • Dave Williams
    ... A single fuel simplifies the supply line; in WWII, the Allies were handling high octane avgas for fighters, lower octane avgas for bombers and transports,
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 2, 2003
      James Provencher wrote:
      >
      > That is correct, the US military is trying to convert to one fuel,
      > not only for the ground vehicles, but for air and sea vehicles as
      > well. Last time I checked, they were trying to get everything to run
      > on JP-8.

      A single fuel simplifies the supply line; in WWII, the Allies were
      handling high octane avgas for fighters, lower octane avgas for bombers
      and transports, road gas for trucks and tanks, and Diesel fuel for
      construction equipment. That's not counting the "bunker oil" used by
      the Navy.

      Diesel engines are heavy and expensive, but they run on fuel coming
      from much lower out of the distillation curve. Even with cracking and
      reformulation, you can make twice as much Diesel fuel out of the same
      barrel of oil as you can gasoline... and Diesels will run on almost
      anything, from soybean oil to their own crankcase drainings, if they
      have to.

      It's not just the US military that's doing it; it's a long range NATO
      goal, and I suspect just about every military is seriously considering a
      single fuel policy. It not only makes good logistic sense, it will save
      money in the long term. Even the military's budget isn't unlimited...

      --
      ===ronin@... (Dave Williams)==============================
      == waiting, anticipating / for someone to save her soul / well, I ==
      == ain't no new Messiah / but I'm close enough for rock and roll! ==
      ============================= http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/index.htm
    • Michael T. Kasimirsky
      ... Don t forget the appeal of a fuel that is less flammable than gasoline to troops in combat vehicles. US tanks in WWII used gasoline and went up in
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 2, 2003
        > A single fuel simplifies the supply line; in WWII, the Allies were
        > handling high octane avgas for fighters, lower octane avgas
        > for bombers
        > and transports, road gas for trucks and tanks, and Diesel fuel for
        > construction equipment. That's not counting the "bunker oil" used by
        > the Navy.

        Don't forget the appeal of a fuel that is less flammable than gasoline
        to troops in combat vehicles. US tanks in WWII used gasoline and went
        up in spectacular fireballs when they were hit. German tanks used Diesel
        and didn't have this "feature" to them.
      • Joe Hawkins
        The US Military uses JP-8 for (just about) everything that ran on mo- gas, diesel, JP-4 and JP-5. Aircraft, motor vehicles, aircraft ground support equipment,
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 6, 2003
          The US Military uses JP-8 for (just about) everything that ran on mo-
          gas, diesel, JP-4 and JP-5. Aircraft, motor vehicles, aircraft ground
          support equipment, heating equipment, even the US Antarctic
          program/South Pole is powered by JP-8. The only exception is Carrier
          based aircraft, they are still restricted to JP-5.
          Gas turbine powered US Navy Ships burn either naval distillate fuel
          (NATO F-76) or marine gas oil (MGO).

          Joe Hawkins



          --- In mc-engine@yahoogroups.com, "James Provencher" <jeprovo@y...>
          wrote:
          > That is correct, the US military is trying to convert to one fuel,
          > not only for the ground vehicles, but for air and sea vehicles as
          > well. Last time I checked, they were trying to get everything to
          run
          > on JP-8.
          >
          > James
          > --- In mc-engine@yahoogroups.com, davisonx <davisonx@y...> wrote:
          > > I don't recall seeing it mentioned anywhere here... If
          > > I recall correctly, this whole diesel engine bike
          > > project came about because of the desire by the US
          > > military to have a common, single fuel spec for the
          > > ground vehicles. They hope to make combat supply
          > > lines simpler. It has nothing to do with perceived
          > > performance or durability improvements. Can anyone
          > > confirm?
          > >
          > > Brian
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
          > > http://sbc.yahoo.com
        • Joe Hawkins
          Panther and Tiger II/King Tigers used Maybach petrol (gasoline) engines. Joe Hawkins Oddball: heh See what d I tell ya heh Moriariti: The parade and the
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 6, 2003
            Panther and Tiger II/King Tigers used Maybach petrol (gasoline)
            engines.

            Joe Hawkins

            Oddball: "heh See what'd I tell ya heh"
            Moriariti: "The parade and the Uniforms I can understand but to buy
            this tank you gotta be crazy"
            Oddball: "It's a beautiful tank">
            Moriariti: "It's a piece of Junk! The fuel system leaks all over the
            place It's a piece of Junk!!"
            Oddball: "Always with the negative waves Moriatiti always with the
            Negative waves"







            --- In mc-engine@yahoogroups.com, "Michael T. Kasimirsky"
            <mtk21@a...> wrote:
            >
            > > A single fuel simplifies the supply line; in WWII, the Allies
            were
            > > handling high octane avgas for fighters, lower octane avgas
            > > for bombers
            > > and transports, road gas for trucks and tanks, and Diesel fuel for
            > > construction equipment. That's not counting the "bunker oil"
            used by
            > > the Navy.
            >
            > Don't forget the appeal of a fuel that is less flammable than
            gasoline
            > to troops in combat vehicles. US tanks in WWII used gasoline and
            went
            > up in spectacular fireballs when they were hit. German tanks used
            Diesel
            > and didn't have this "feature" to them.
          • David Scott
            One of the reasons the Blitzkrieg was so effective at the start of WWII when they advanced through France was that the tanks just filled up at roadside
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 6, 2003
              One of the reasons the "Blitzkrieg" was so effective at the start of
              WWII when they advanced through France was that the tanks just filled up
              at roadside filling stations. I don't supposed they paid for the petrol
              though.

              David

              Joe Hawkins wrote:

              >Panther and Tiger II/King Tigers used Maybach petrol (gasoline)
              >engines.
              >
              >Joe Hawkins
              >
              >
              >
            • Dave Williams
              ... They also made extensive use of motorcycles for reconaissance. Aircraft were fine, but the Panzer commanders put more faith in on-the-spot motorcycle
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 6, 2003
                David Scott wrote:
                >
                > One of the reasons the "Blitzkrieg" was so effective at the start of
                > WWII when they advanced through France was that the tanks just filled up
                > at roadside filling stations. I don't supposed they paid for the petrol
                > though.

                They also made extensive use of motorcycles for reconaissance.
                Aircraft were fine, but the Panzer commanders put more faith in
                on-the-spot motorcycle reports. Von Luck talks about this in his
                autobiography "Panzer Commander."

                After a while, just the appearance of a German motorcycle was enough to
                demoralize the French forces, who had quickly learned that whenever a
                motorcycle showed up, the Panzers weren't far behind. The Germans
                picked up on this, and ran motorcycles all over the place in feints to
                keep the French from guessing where the Panzers really were. Not that
                it mattered a whole lot by then...

                --
                ===ronin@... (Dave Williams)==============================
                == waiting, anticipating / for someone to save her soul / well, I ==
                == ain't no new Messiah / but I'm close enough for rock and roll! ==
                ============================= http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/index.htm
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