- It's true, alas. I do the editing of English-language technical papers each year for the Indonesian Petroleum Association's annual convention, and in the past couple of years the trend has been toward squeezing blood from the stone, so to speak.
Little bits of hydrocarbons here and there, or way down deep in the ocean trenches... meaning, quite problematical to bring to the surface.
Looks like the party's over.
--- In email@example.com, Danny Whitfield <eco.usa@...> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Chris Cosentino
> <chris@...> wrote:
> > >>You talk like we (PERAVES) didn't win $3.5 million at the Progressive
> > >>Auto X-PRIZE summer before last for 200 MPGE, 200 mile range @ 75 MPH,
> > >>zero to 60 in less than 5 seconds, and better handling through the S
> > >>turn test than any other contestant (there were over 100 with every
> > >>kind of power, even adiabatic ICE).
> > Dan as you know a hand built special and a mass produced vehicle for sale to the masses are completely different things. Let's see the electric vehicle industry scale up to production of millions of vehicles per year without having the gov't give each manufacturer hundreds of millions in subsidies and each buyer thousands in 'rebates'. The tech just isn't there to do it at a price people can afford.
> > >>I love the ICE powered rods too, but the electrics can dominate them
> > >>in every category (with conventional L-ION tech) today when designed
> > >>for that purpose (not an ICE vehicle with electric shoved into it).
> > When can I buy it? How much? I think electric vehicles have their place, mostly fleet use with monitoring, but they are far from ready to replace the ICE as a main power source for transportation even in clean sheet designs. I get a lot of auto trade rags and the tech guys involved in manufacturing already know what they will be manufacturing in 5 years and it is 10% better than what they have now. I don't see any of the 10-24x density increases talked about by industry guys because they know it is all in the lab and maybe 0.1% of lab stuff can actually be made cost efficient to manufacture. The old adage 'If it was that easy people would already be doing it' fits well here. The main reason for the sudden spurt of electric vehicle development is not technology but gov't money. Once that dries up the electric vehicle industry falls back to niche market.
> > >>But you are very right to be cautious. There were hundreds of players
> > >>in the beginning of the ICE age, most unable to make it work.
> > The electric motor and drive industry is well developed. Batteries too, look at all the laptop computers and cell phones. Electric cars are merely tapping into decades of development by parallel industries so the huge efficiency increases and price decreases usual in new technology development will not occur, they've already happened in the originating industries. They will be some efficiency increases as the specific use patterns can get optimized but electric motors and drives are already well developed and mass production scaled.
> > Sorry to be so dismissive of this but your original statement of '1000 mile range (actually 2000 if you turn off accessories) 200 hp penny per mile fuel cost can be had within 5 years.' doesn't have any basis in manufacturing reality. Maybe for prototypes, but then again a F1 car and MotoGP motorcycle are ultra high performance prototypes but nobody is trying to advocate them as production solutions.
> > Again, go for it on trying to design a better vehicle. That's what lists like this are all about. But let it be judged on its technology and performance and not try to make it work with huge subsidies that make it only partly economically viable.
> I agree with all you state here Chris, However the X-PRIZE was not a
> government sponsored deal. It was done by the Ansari family,
> Progressive insurance and other business interests. In fact, the
> vehicle was developed entirely in Switzerland not the USA and is a
> limited production vehicle available to anyone for $110K last time I
> It is fine that you are dismissive about about electric's potential,
> otherwise I would have you to fight as a competitor.
> The next 5 years should answer a number of other pivotal questions,
> like can the petrol industry keep up with new demand from China, India
> etc. without building new refineries or finding new reserves? They are
> down to chasing waste oil, oil sand and oil shale already.
> Dan W
KAI believe that GP bikes are limited to 6 speeds these days, the 50cc
Honda GP twin of the 60's had 10 speeds and wasn't there a Suzuki
GP racer with 14 speeds ?