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Allah or Jesus?

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  • A. Setiadi
    The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States: ( because they have large families and they do not abort the unborn)
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 7, 2005
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      The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in
      the United States: ( because they have large families and they do
      not abort the unborn)

      Allah or Jesus? by: Rick Mathes

      Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
      maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training
      session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the
      Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of
      their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the
      Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the
      basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations,
      time was provided for questions and answers.

      When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
      "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams
      and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy War] against
      the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which
      is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven.
      If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
      There was no disagreement with my statements and, without
      hesitation, he replied, "Nonbelievers!"
      I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
      followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not
      of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct? The
      expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to
      that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the
      cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
      "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul
      commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley
      ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
      The Imam was speechless.

      I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you
      and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let
      me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells
      you to kill me in order to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to
      love you because I am
      going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?" You could have
      heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

      Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
      diversification-training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
      dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the
      Muslim's
      beliefs. I think everyone in the US (and Canada) should be
      required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal
      media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
      Please pass this on to all your email contacts. This is a true story
      and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison
      ministry. "I would hope you would share this with your entire email
      addresses. They have a right to know what is going on in "Our"
      United States of America..." And if this story offends any one, then
      we have a serious problem.



      Hendro Herlambang


      asetiadi@...
    • si Brewok
      Kebetulan saja Rick bertemu dengan ulama yang berpikiran demikian. Saya juga pernah bertemu dengan pastur/pendeta yang punya pemikiran sejenis, yang belum bisa
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 7, 2005
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        Kebetulan saja Rick bertemu dengan ulama yang berpikiran demikian.
        Saya juga pernah bertemu dengan pastur/pendeta yang punya pemikiran
        sejenis, yang belum bisa menerima perbedaan sebagai satu anugerah.

        Yang repotnya adalah, jika para pembaca email ini di Amrik sono lalu
        main hantam kromo saja mengatakan bahwa inilah wajah Islam dan para
        pemeluknya. Saya pikir, kita2 di milis ini yang sekian lama belajar
        untuk membuka hati dan pikiran tidak ikut2an menggeneralisir dgn cara
        demikian.

        Mengenai istilah Allah atau Jesus (yg dianggap Allah oleh para
        devoteenya), itu juga usah dipermasalahkan. Marilah kita mulai
        beranjak dari platform hakekat, tidak melulu meributkan soal bentuk
        saja.

        Salam
        brewok
      • dewa brata
        maksudnya email ini apa? saya gak setuju dengan penindasan terhadap agama lain tapi saya juga adalah seorang muslim anda bertanya kenapa ada jihad? jika itu
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 9, 2005
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          maksudnya email ini apa?

          saya gak setuju dengan penindasan terhadap agama lain
          tapi saya juga adalah seorang muslim
          anda bertanya kenapa ada jihad?
          jika itu ditanyakan maka seharusnya imam itu bisa menjelaskan,bahwa
          jihad pantas dilakukan jika kita sudah terdesak.salah satu daripada
          penyebab jihad adalah ditekannya kehidupan beragama dan juga
          pengusiran dari kota kediaman tempat kita.
          tulisan itu berkata bagaimana jika paus menyatakan membunuh orang yang
          berkeyakinan lain?
          dan apa saudara pikir itu tak pernah dilakukan oleh paus?bagaimana
          dengan kisah penyerbuan tentara salib ke yerusalem yang diserukan oleh
          paus saat itu?apa itu bukan berarti penghancuran buat mereka yang
          beragama lain?
          belum perang saudara antar kristen sendiri?antara katolik dan
          protestan seperti terjadi di irlandia
          atau upaya penjajahan daerah daerah oleh spanyol dan portugis dengan
          tujuan melenyapkan bangsa moor (ditafsirkan sebagai seluruh umat islam
          dimanapun)

          saya gak menyukai perdebatan agama
          saya gak mau mendebat agama lain
          tapi saya juga tak suka agama saya dilecehkan

          terimakasih
          dewabrata
          manusia biasa






          --- In mayapadaprana@yahoogroups.com, "A. Setiadi" <asetiadi@m...> wrote:
          > The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in
          > the United States: ( because they have large families and they do
          > not abort the unborn)
          >
          > Allah or Jesus? by: Rick Mathes
          >
          > Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
          > maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training
          > session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the
          > Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of
          > their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the
          > Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the
          > basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations,
          > time was provided for questions and answers.
          >
          > When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
          > "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams
          > and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy War] against
          > the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which
          > is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven.
          > If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
          > There was no disagreement with my statements and, without
          > hesitation, he replied, "Nonbelievers!"
          > I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
          > followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not
          > of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct? The
          > expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to
          > that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the
          > cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
          > "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul
          > commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley
          > ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
          > The Imam was speechless.
          >
          > I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you
          > and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let
          > me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells
          > you to kill me in order to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to
          > love you because I am
          > going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?" You could have
          > heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.
          >
          > Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
          > diversification-training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
          > dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the
          > Muslim's
          > beliefs. I think everyone in the US (and Canada) should be
          > required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal
          > media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
          > Please pass this on to all your email contacts. This is a true story
          > and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison
          > ministry. "I would hope you would share this with your entire email
          > addresses. They have a right to know what is going on in "Our"
          > United States of America..." And if this story offends any one, then
          > we have a serious problem.
          >
          >
          >
          > Hendro Herlambang
          >
          >
          > asetiadi@m...
        • aha2000
          Semua agama diciptakan adalah baik adanya... Semua agama sebenarnya adalah rangkuman ajaran/perbuatan dari Yesus (utk org Kristen/Katolik), Muhammad (Islam),
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 10, 2005
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            Semua agama diciptakan adalah baik adanya...
            Semua agama sebenarnya adalah rangkuman ajaran/perbuatan dari Yesus (utk
            org Kristen/Katolik), Muhammad (Islam), Sidharta (Buddha).
            Mereka tdk pernah mengatakan...agama saya adalah....
            Jadi agama adalah aturan2 dan rangkuman yg dibuat oleh manusia...

            Cuma lucunya...yang buat manusia, yang mensalah tafsirkan juga
            manusia...
            Itulah sebabnya Tuhan tidak bosan2nya mengirimkan 'orang2Nya' ke dunia
            ini utk menjelaskan hal yg sama terus menerus...

            Semua agama CINTA DAMAI... Saya meskipun Katolik, tidak percaya bahwa
            Islam tidak Cinta damai...
            Sayangnya, seperti di masyarakat, dalam setiap agama ada saja yg salah
            mentafsirkan...(Dan ini tidak hanya di agama ISLAM saja, agama
            Kristen/Katolikpun ada...)

            Saya berani bertaruh, jika Muhammad masih hidup, pasti sedih melihat
            banyak pengikutnya yang menafsirkan hal yg salah...
            Saya berani bertaruh, jika Yesus masih hidup, pasti sedih melihat banyak
            ajaranya yg disalah gunakan (dan banyaknya munafik)
            Saya berani bertaruh, jika Sidartha masih hidup, pasti sedih melihat
            ajarannya tidak dilakukan oleh pengikutnya...

            Tapi, Mereka juga sangat berbangga pada sebagian pengikutnya yang bisa
            mengerti INTI/ESSENCE dari ajaran Mereka. Tanpa gembar-gembor...Tanpa
            menuding2 agama lain...

            Menurut pendapat saya, buat apa berdebat tentang agama lain....
            Urusilah diri sendiri...
            Kalau diri sendiri sudah mengikuti 100% ajaran agamanya...Baru boleh
            menghimbau (tdk memaksa lho) orang2 yang kurang mengikuti apa yang
            dipilihnya...
            Kita hidup diberi kebebasan untuk memilih, buka kebebasan untuk memaksa
            orang lain...
            Biarlah Tuhan yang menghakimi kita ciptaannya (bukan manusia menghakimi
            manusia)...

            Saya jg pernah bertemu orang kristen yang menyatakan bahwa "hanya orang
            yang percaya YESUS akan diselamatkan"
            Saya tidak setuju !!! "Hanya Percaya" kalau tindakannya
            'amburadul'...pasti tidak akan diselamatkan...

            PEACE...PEACE...PEACE...

            Kita dah pusing sama BBM dan perekonomian kita, ngapain sih bikin hidup
            tambah ruwet dengan ngomongin agama lain???



            -----Original Message-----
            From: mayapadaprana@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:mayapadaprana@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dewa brata
            Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 11:24 AM
            To: mayapadaprana@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Mayapada Prana] Re: Allah or Jesus?


            maksudnya email ini apa?

            saya gak setuju dengan penindasan terhadap agama lain
            tapi saya juga adalah seorang muslim
            anda bertanya kenapa ada jihad?
            jika itu ditanyakan maka seharusnya imam itu bisa menjelaskan,bahwa
            jihad pantas dilakukan jika kita sudah terdesak.salah satu daripada
            penyebab jihad adalah ditekannya kehidupan beragama dan juga pengusiran
            dari kota kediaman tempat kita. tulisan itu berkata bagaimana jika paus
            menyatakan membunuh orang yang berkeyakinan lain? dan apa saudara pikir
            itu tak pernah dilakukan oleh paus?bagaimana dengan kisah penyerbuan
            tentara salib ke yerusalem yang diserukan oleh paus saat itu?apa itu
            bukan berarti penghancuran buat mereka yang beragama lain? belum perang
            saudara antar kristen sendiri?antara katolik dan protestan seperti
            terjadi di irlandia atau upaya penjajahan daerah daerah oleh spanyol dan
            portugis dengan tujuan melenyapkan bangsa moor (ditafsirkan sebagai
            seluruh umat islam
            dimanapun)

            saya gak menyukai perdebatan agama
            saya gak mau mendebat agama lain
            tapi saya juga tak suka agama saya dilecehkan

            terimakasih
            dewabrata
            manusia biasa






            --- In mayapadaprana@yahoogroups.com, "A. Setiadi" <asetiadi@m...>
            wrote:
            > The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in
            > the United States: ( because they have large families and they do
            > not abort the unborn)
            >
            > Allah or Jesus? by: Rick Mathes
            >
            > Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
            > maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training
            > session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the
            > Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of
            > their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the
            > Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the
            > basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations,
            > time was provided for questions and answers.
            >
            > When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
            > "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and

            > clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy War] against the
            > infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a
            > command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If
            > that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?" There
            > was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he
            > replied, "Nonbelievers!"
            > I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
            > followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not
            > of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct? The
            > expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to
            > that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the
            > cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."
            > "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul
            > commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley
            > ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
            > The Imam was speechless.
            >
            > I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you
            > and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let
            > me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells
            > you to kill me in order to go to Heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to
            > love you because I am
            > going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?" You could have
            > heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.
            >
            > Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
            > diversification-training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
            > dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the
            > Muslim's
            > beliefs. I think everyone in the US (and Canada) should be
            > required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal
            > media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.
            > Please pass this on to all your email contacts. This is a true story
            > and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison
            > ministry. "I would hope you would share this with your entire email
            > addresses. They have a right to know what is going on in "Our"
            > United States of America..." And if this story offends any one, then
            > we have a serious problem.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hendro Herlambang
            >
            >
            > asetiadi@m...




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