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Consortium Technology Markets

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  • frank_stratford
    Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 8, 2010
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      Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium developing these areas for a Mars mission- The key is that if a private consortium controlled this type of program, they could reach profits much faster than if governments controlled it. (not to say governments can't fund it as customers :) )

      There are probably many areas I am missing inside and outside of these but I hope these serve as a starting point to keep in mind when designing these missions--

      Life Support-
      Air supplies and generation systems
      Water supplies and recycling, water generation systems- in space and on planetary surface
      Food supplies- dried foods, greenhouse/gown foods
      - Soil creation and cultivation techniques
      - Environmental regulation needed (heat, water, light)
      - Every food market on earth(includes water tech)
      Radiation shielding-
      - Special Materials development and patents from this
      - Use of existing materials like polyethelene, demron, water,etc
      - Magnetic shielding R&D needed (for space and surface use)
      - Nuclear industry market
      Gravity-
      - Centrifugal gravity spin systems need to be researched
      - Benefits will help counter physiological effects of low gravity on humans.
      - Medical spin offs likely to come from this area- markets
      Energy Supply-
      - Clean energy research and applications
      - Will help reduce costs in almost all areas of the program if we can create a system of maximum efficiency for in space and surface use.
      - Earth based spin offs are obvious here- will help advance current R&D in this area
      - Markets do exist for energy based technologies
      Space Vehicles-
      - Launch Vehicles- advanced rocket designs needed
      - In space habitats and surface habitats
      - Transit vehicles- habitats
      - Orbital assembly advances
      - Cheap space access vehicle R&D
      Ground Vehicles-
      - Manned rovers- will have spin offs for vehicles on earth such as auto navigation and self drive ability (like current rovers)
      Robotics-
      - Needed for all aspects of the mission- in space repairs to ship, surface exploration and observation, greenhouse maintenance, energy maintenance, ISRU maintenance etc
      - Advanced robotics development will have benefits for the already slow moving robotics sector and for all industries that use these robots.
    • David
      Frank, Nice list. I d add to it our hydrogen storage problem, as there currently seems to be a drive towards hydrogen fuel for terrestrial applications,
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 9, 2010
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        Frank,

        Nice list.

        I'd add to it our hydrogen storage problem, as there currently seems to be a drive towards hydrogen fuel for terrestrial applications, particularly automotive, and the hydrogen storage is one of the main obstacles to this.

        One observation I have:

        Progressing some of these items is likely to involve some financial outline. Paper studies, modelling and simulation etc. cost us nothing (except our time, which I and presumably others would be prepared to donate for nothing at least initially). But some of the R&D here will at some point require physical testing and so forth - this means premises, equipment etc. And by their nature, there is a significant likelihood of not delivering the required results - they are high-risk items in that respect.

        Is the money available? How much would each of us be required to put in? My wife would have something to say if I put thousands into such a venture without a clear business plan and visible route to success.

        I did put together over the last week a short powerpoint on one business proposal for you that would not involve a substantial initial up-front investment. I don't want to publish it here yet for certain reasons but I would like to send it to you if that's OK with you. If you think its workable and worth proceeding with then I think I would be prepared to share it here.

        Regards,

        Dave G

        --- In marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com, "frank_stratford" <frank_stratford@...> wrote:
        >
        > Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium developing these areas for a Mars mission- The key is that if a private consortium controlled this type of program, they could reach profits much faster than if governments controlled it. (not to say governments can't fund it as customers :) )
        >
        > There are probably many areas I am missing inside and outside of these but I hope these serve as a starting point to keep in mind when designing these missions--
        >
        > Life Support-
        > Air supplies and generation systems
        > Water supplies and recycling, water generation systems- in space and on planetary surface
        > Food supplies- dried foods, greenhouse/gown foods
        > - Soil creation and cultivation techniques
        > - Environmental regulation needed (heat, water, light)
        > - Every food market on earth(includes water tech)
        > Radiation shielding-
        > - Special Materials development and patents from this
        > - Use of existing materials like polyethelene, demron, water,etc
        > - Magnetic shielding R&D needed (for space and surface use)
        > - Nuclear industry market
        > Gravity-
        > - Centrifugal gravity spin systems need to be researched
        > - Benefits will help counter physiological effects of low gravity on humans.
        > - Medical spin offs likely to come from this area- markets
        > Energy Supply-
        > - Clean energy research and applications
        > - Will help reduce costs in almost all areas of the program if we can create a system of maximum efficiency for in space and surface use.
        > - Earth based spin offs are obvious here- will help advance current R&D in this area
        > - Markets do exist for energy based technologies
        > Space Vehicles-
        > - Launch Vehicles- advanced rocket designs needed
        > - In space habitats and surface habitats
        > - Transit vehicles- habitats
        > - Orbital assembly advances
        > - Cheap space access vehicle R&D
        > Ground Vehicles-
        > - Manned rovers- will have spin offs for vehicles on earth such as auto navigation and self drive ability (like current rovers)
        > Robotics-
        > - Needed for all aspects of the mission- in space repairs to ship, surface exploration and observation, greenhouse maintenance, energy maintenance, ISRU maintenance etc
        > - Advanced robotics development will have benefits for the already slow moving robotics sector and for all industries that use these robots.
        >
      • frank_stratford
        By all means Dave please send it through to me and I will take a look. We have to start somewhere, and as many space companies are learning, earth based apps
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 9, 2010
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          By all means Dave please send it through to me and I will take a look. We have to start somewhere, and as many space companies are learning, earth based apps are the only real way to get moving.

          --- In marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com, "David" <davidgooding16@...> wrote:
          >
          > Frank,
          >
          > Nice list.
          >
          > I'd add to it our hydrogen storage problem, as there currently seems to be a drive towards hydrogen fuel for terrestrial applications, particularly automotive, and the hydrogen storage is one of the main obstacles to this.
          >
          > One observation I have:
          >
          > Progressing some of these items is likely to involve some financial outline. Paper studies, modelling and simulation etc. cost us nothing (except our time, which I and presumably others would be prepared to donate for nothing at least initially). But some of the R&D here will at some point require physical testing and so forth - this means premises, equipment etc. And by their nature, there is a significant likelihood of not delivering the required results - they are high-risk items in that respect.
          >
          > Is the money available? How much would each of us be required to put in? My wife would have something to say if I put thousands into such a venture without a clear business plan and visible route to success.
          >
          > I did put together over the last week a short powerpoint on one business proposal for you that would not involve a substantial initial up-front investment. I don't want to publish it here yet for certain reasons but I would like to send it to you if that's OK with you. If you think its workable and worth proceeding with then I think I would be prepared to share it here.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Dave G
          >
          > --- In marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com, "frank_stratford" <frank_stratford@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium developing these areas for a Mars mission- The key is that if a private consortium controlled this type of program, they could reach profits much faster than if governments controlled it. (not to say governments can't fund it as customers :) )
          > >
          > > There are probably many areas I am missing inside and outside of these but I hope these serve as a starting point to keep in mind when designing these missions--
          > >
          > > Life Support-
          > > Air supplies and generation systems
          > > Water supplies and recycling, water generation systems- in space and on planetary surface
          > > Food supplies- dried foods, greenhouse/gown foods
          > > - Soil creation and cultivation techniques
          > > - Environmental regulation needed (heat, water, light)
          > > - Every food market on earth(includes water tech)
          > > Radiation shielding-
          > > - Special Materials development and patents from this
          > > - Use of existing materials like polyethelene, demron, water,etc
          > > - Magnetic shielding R&D needed (for space and surface use)
          > > - Nuclear industry market
          > > Gravity-
          > > - Centrifugal gravity spin systems need to be researched
          > > - Benefits will help counter physiological effects of low gravity on humans.
          > > - Medical spin offs likely to come from this area- markets
          > > Energy Supply-
          > > - Clean energy research and applications
          > > - Will help reduce costs in almost all areas of the program if we can create a system of maximum efficiency for in space and surface use.
          > > - Earth based spin offs are obvious here- will help advance current R&D in this area
          > > - Markets do exist for energy based technologies
          > > Space Vehicles-
          > > - Launch Vehicles- advanced rocket designs needed
          > > - In space habitats and surface habitats
          > > - Transit vehicles- habitats
          > > - Orbital assembly advances
          > > - Cheap space access vehicle R&D
          > > Ground Vehicles-
          > > - Manned rovers- will have spin offs for vehicles on earth such as auto navigation and self drive ability (like current rovers)
          > > Robotics-
          > > - Needed for all aspects of the mission- in space repairs to ship, surface exploration and observation, greenhouse maintenance, energy maintenance, ISRU maintenance etc
          > > - Advanced robotics development will have benefits for the already slow moving robotics sector and for all industries that use these robots.
          > >
          >
        • Darren Oliveiro-Priestnall
          The MarsDrive commercial venture sounds like it has real potential although it’s still unclear what such a venture would encompass or who would be involved.
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 15, 2010
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            The MarsDrive commercial venture sounds like it has real potential although it’s still unclear what such a venture would encompass or who would be involved.

            I’d suggest that any company really needs investment while getting investment for a company focussed just on ‘going to Mars’ would be a big ask, especially in the current financial climate.

            For what’s it worth I’d therefore suggest two ideas which may or may not be taken on board.

             

            First of all, the venture would need to be self funded. I can’t see many banks or investors falling over themselves to invest in such an unknown venture, unless of course you have a strong team of established engineers and businessmen. One way to achieve this funding would be to form the company with shares and a fixed buy-in.

            For example, there could be 200 shares allocated, 100 kept back by the company for future use and 100 made available for MD members to buy. At a buy-in of £500 per share (maximum 1 share per person) it would form the company with a £50,000 central fund which should be sufficient to get the business running. Ideally that money should be held back as much as possible but is available for general business expenses and anything needed for the core business. Share holders don’t get paid but when the company reaches a threshold profit then dividends may be paid.

            Since people are investing money then it encourages them to support for success of the company and get involved. The potential of future dividend payments also helps to demonstrate that the company is viable as a commercial entity. Finally when the company grows, the remaining 100 shares may be further subdivided and sold to commercial investors to help to raise further funds for larger projects. Of course it could be done in different ways, maybe instead of 100 * £500 shares it could be 500 * £100 shares etc.

             

            Second of all, the activities should be both focussed on the end goal of going to Mars and on non-Mars related space activities. Again this is to increase the potential of returning a profit which can in turn fund the main Mars related projects.

            So for example, the company could work on the design, construction and ultimately a demonstration of a functional ISRU unit. At the same time the company could provide consultancy and support on space tech more generally to bring in money. In this situation, those MD contributors who are providing consultancy would be paid consultant fees but at a reduced cost which could be something like billing £800 per day, £400 going to the expert consultant and £400 going into the MD fund. At the same time MD could be working on the development of other non-Mars related technologies such as CubeSat technologies or research software.

            This is where that £50,000 fund is of use. It may be to cover expenses for that consultant who would be bringing in more than he or she is taking out but needs the support up front or it may be to purchase CubeSat kit etc.

             

             

            Just some thoughts but I do think such a venture needs to be viewed from both the MarsDrive central goal angle and the angle of becoming a commercially viable company.


            From: marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com [marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank_stratford [frank_stratford@...]
            Sent: 09 June 2010 06:39
            To: marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [marsdrivemission] Consortium Technology Markets

             

            Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium developing these areas for a Mars mission- The key is that if a private consortium controlled this type of program, they could reach profits much faster than if governments controlled it. (not to say governments can't fund it as customers :) )

            There are probably many areas I am missing inside and outside of these but I hope these serve as a starting point to keep in mind when designing these missions--

            Life Support-
            Air supplies and generation systems
            Water supplies and recycling, water generation systems- in space and on planetary surface
            Food supplies- dried foods, greenhouse/gown foods
            - Soil creation and cultivation techniques
            - Environmental regulation needed (heat, water, light)
            - Every food market on earth(includes water tech)
            Radiation shielding-
            - Special Materials development and patents from this
            - Use of existing materials like polyethelene, demron, water,etc
            - Magnetic shielding R&D needed (for space and surface use)
            - Nuclear industry market
            Gravity-
            - Centrifugal gravity spin systems need to be researched
            - Benefits will help counter physiological effects of low gravity on humans.
            - Medical spin offs likely to come from this area- markets
            Energy Supply-
            - Clean energy research and applications
            - Will help reduce costs in almost all areas of the program if we can create a system of maximum efficiency for in space and surface use.
            - Earth based spin offs are obvious here- will help advance current R&D in this area
            - Markets do exist for energy based technologies
            Space Vehicles-
            - Launch Vehicles- advanced rocket designs needed
            - In space habitats and surface habitats
            - Transit vehicles- habitats
            - Orbital assembly advances
            - Cheap space access vehicle R&D
            Ground Vehicles-
            - Manned rovers- will have spin offs for vehicles on earth such as auto navigation and self drive ability (like current rovers)
            Robotics-
            - Needed for all aspects of the mission- in space repairs to ship, surface exploration and observation, greenhouse maintenance, energy maintenance, ISRU maintenance etc
            - Advanced robotics development will have benefits for the already slow moving robotics sector and for all industries that use these robots.

          • spacenutnewmars
            The new list if you are talking aboutleveraging from near term Earth science and utilization leads to perhaps a profit and even some science that is useable
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 22, 2010
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              The new list if you are talking aboutleveraging from near term Earth science and utilization leads to perhaps a profit and even some science that is useable for a space mission to Mars but most of the items have not the same research needs to solve the Earth based problems in each area.

              While the need for air supplies, regeneration systems are a big need for a space vehicle they are not for Earth and so little of the needed science will happen unless you include the arena of clean air from smog or polutions that may result in a global warming effect but that is just about the only way near term Earth needs can lead to profit as general research is just an expense that makes very little money ever.

              Sorry that is all I have worked up a response on so far....


              --- In marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com, "frank_stratford" <frank_stratford@...> wrote:
              >
              > Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium developing these areas for a Mars mission- The key is that if a private consortium controlled this type of program, they could reach profits much faster than if governments controlled it. (not to say governments can't fund it as customers :) )
              >
              > There are probably many areas I am missing inside and outside of these but I hope these serve as a starting point to keep in mind when designing these missions--
              >
              > Life Support-
              > Air supplies and generation systems
              > Water supplies and recycling, water generation systems- in space and on planetary surface
              > Food supplies- dried foods, greenhouse/gown foods
              > - Soil creation and cultivation techniques
              > - Environmental regulation needed (heat, water, light)
              > - Every food market on earth(includes water tech)
              > Radiation shielding-
              > - Special Materials development and patents from this
              > - Use of existing materials like polyethelene, demron, water,etc
              > - Magnetic shielding R&D needed (for space and surface use)
              > - Nuclear industry market
              > Gravity-
              > - Centrifugal gravity spin systems need to be researched
              > - Benefits will help counter physiological effects of low gravity on humans.
              > - Medical spin offs likely to come from this area- markets
              > Energy Supply-
              > - Clean energy research and applications
              > - Will help reduce costs in almost all areas of the program if we can create a system of maximum efficiency for in space and surface use.
              > - Earth based spin offs are obvious here- will help advance current R&D in this area
              > - Markets do exist for energy based technologies
              > Space Vehicles-
              > - Launch Vehicles- advanced rocket designs needed
              > - In space habitats and surface habitats
              > - Transit vehicles- habitats
              > - Orbital assembly advances
              > - Cheap space access vehicle R&D
              > Ground Vehicles-
              > - Manned rovers- will have spin offs for vehicles on earth such as auto navigation and self drive ability (like current rovers)
              > Robotics-
              > - Needed for all aspects of the mission- in space repairs to ship, surface exploration and observation, greenhouse maintenance, energy maintenance, ISRU maintenance etc
              > - Advanced robotics development will have benefits for the already slow moving robotics sector and for all industries that use these robots.
              >
            • spacenutnewmars
              The water supply problem of select areas of the globe are unique IMO unrelated to Mars water recycling thou it can help those areas. Select processing in the
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 2, 2010
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                The water supply problem of select areas of the globe are unique IMO unrelated to Mars water recycling thou it can help those areas. Select processing in the arid areas of solar power to create water from wastes, CO2 with the help of technology such as the Sabitier reactor is the way to go. Throw into the waste side algea reprocessing of sludge and you get more fuel materials, organic matter to fertilize the soils to make it so that they grow once more plants so critical for life in general.

                Sure would be great to have every person not going hungry but when the cost is tied back to having the money, a job and many other factors the can cause one to be in that situation it is hard to get individuals to grow there own as a means around such issues but that is reality. For Mars there has been a little bit of descusion on newmars recently the topic of food inparticular with dehydrate food stores as a staple supply with suppliment of grown as the science expirment to make a base suffiecient is the steps for the future.

                http://survivalacres.com/information/shelflife.html
                http://www.cherubimfood.com/en/product-shelf-life.html

                The food source that is grown then becomes a backup system for the oxygen creation system impliment on mars. I do believe in time it will be a primary system but for now leave it in the realm that it may not be up to expectations. Sure we will experiment with the various methods and once we are stable in the efforts will settle on one I am positive. Typically on earth most areas can and do grow food quite well but there is the dry arid areas that need irrigation and while there is climates that produce great seasons or seasonal growing periods there is a few that are less temperate and require great sources of lighting and heat.


                --- In marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com, "spacenutnewmars" <spacenutnewmars@...> wrote:
                >
                > The new list if you are talking aboutleveraging from near term Earth science and utilization leads to perhaps a profit and even some science that is useable for a space mission to Mars but most of the items have not the same research needs to solve the Earth based problems in each area.
                >
                > While the need for air supplies, regeneration systems are a big need for a space vehicle they are not for Earth and so little of the needed science will happen unless you include the arena of clean air from smog or polutions that may result in a global warming effect but that is just about the only way near term Earth needs can lead to profit as general research is just an expense that makes very little money ever.
                >
                > Sorry that is all I have worked up a response on so far....
                >
                >
                > --- In marsdrivemission@yahoogroups.com, "frank_stratford" <frank_stratford@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Below I have a made a list in my non engineering view of some areas that have markets and which could benefit and generate profits for any consortium developing these areas for a Mars mission- The key is that if a private consortium controlled this type of program, they could reach profits much faster than if governments controlled it. (not to say governments can't fund it as customers :) )
                > >
                > > There are probably many areas I am missing inside and outside of these but I hope these serve as a starting point to keep in mind when designing these missions--
                > >
                > > Life Support-
                > > Air supplies and generation systems
                > > Water supplies and recycling, water generation systems- in space and on planetary surface
                > > Food supplies- dried foods, greenhouse/gown foods
                > > - Soil creation and cultivation techniques
                > > - Environmental regulation needed (heat, water, light)
                > > - Every food market on earth(includes water tech)
                > > Radiation shielding-
                > > - Special Materials development and patents from this
                > > - Use of existing materials like polyethelene, demron, water,etc
                > > - Magnetic shielding R&D needed (for space and surface use)
                > > - Nuclear industry market
                > > Gravity-
                > > - Centrifugal gravity spin systems need to be researched
                > > - Benefits will help counter physiological effects of low gravity on humans.
                > > - Medical spin offs likely to come from this area- markets
                > > Energy Supply-
                > > - Clean energy research and applications
                > > - Will help reduce costs in almost all areas of the program if we can create a system of maximum efficiency for in space and surface use.
                > > - Earth based spin offs are obvious here- will help advance current R&D in this area
                > > - Markets do exist for energy based technologies
                > > Space Vehicles-
                > > - Launch Vehicles- advanced rocket designs needed
                > > - In space habitats and surface habitats
                > > - Transit vehicles- habitats
                > > - Orbital assembly advances
                > > - Cheap space access vehicle R&D
                > > Ground Vehicles-
                > > - Manned rovers- will have spin offs for vehicles on earth such as auto navigation and self drive ability (like current rovers)
                > > Robotics-
                > > - Needed for all aspects of the mission- in space repairs to ship, surface exploration and observation, greenhouse maintenance, energy maintenance, ISRU maintenance etc
                > > - Advanced robotics development will have benefits for the already slow moving robotics sector and for all industries that use these robots.
                > >
                >
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