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Re: [manji] Re: Translation

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  • Ang
    Funny that I had to ask what crapper meant? I already knew, hehe. Lol, no offense meant. As I said, I know what that term means and I don t think I m part of
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 8, 2010
      Funny that I had to ask what "crapper" meant? I already knew, hehe.

      Lol, no offense meant. As I said, I know what that term means and I don't think I'm part of the "older generation," being 25. Though, I'm sure some younger people might think of me as such. I just meant that I don't hear younger people use that term very often.

      Yeeaaahhh....um, well the Prison Arc was pretty drawn out, but I couldn't ever give up Blade. It's my favorite series ever! And that arc has since ended, resulting in some more interesting plot elements. And you're probably right about who you think Shira's "assistant" is!

      You know, I was ok with the anime, but I will admit that's only because it is of Blade. If I was just viewing it by itself with no knowledge of the manga, I would not think it was particularly well done, either. :/ It's strange that they decided to only do a dozen or so episodes, considering the great length of the series! Not to mention the fact that I don't think the voices really matched most of the characters, well at least how I imagined them, lol. I'd say get the art book to respark your interest by remembering how amazingly talented Samura is!

      I hope this forum remains active, too! This is the most active I've been here in all my years of lurking, heh.

      -Ang

      "The only normal people are the ones you don’t know well."-Joe Ancis

      Manji: Hi, Shira. Even though I don't know you well, you seem like a pretty normal guy...

      Shira: If only he knew....

      Manji: What?

      Shira: Uh, nothing, nothing. Bwahahahahahahahaha-*cough* *choke* *hack*-ha.

      Manji: *weirded out*



      --- On Sun, 8/29/10, aio075@... <aio075@...> wrote:

      From: aio075@... <aio075@...>
      Subject: Re: [manji] Re: Translation
      To: manji@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 11:11 PM

       

      I thought the term "crapper" was properly used by the character, who I remember was Shira. I find it funnier that you had to ask...lol, Manji did saying in later panels that "whew, that was a big one" or something to that effect.

      Damn, am I considered part of that "older generation" cause i know and use that term? O.o

      It's been awhile since I've read the manga, the prisoner arc was just too long and drawn out...but I would like to finally find out the weapon Shira has hidden in his eye. And I'm pretty sure I saw who his "boy helper" turned out to be...

      The anime didn't help respark the interest like I thought it would. With all the other anime out there, I thought it was just horribly done, but that's just my opinion.

      Glad to see this still active, I'll go back to lurking as usual now...like I have been for years now...lol

      ~J

      ----- Reply message -----
      From: "Ang" <shiraxmanji@...>
      Date: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 9:06 pm
      Subject: [manji] Re: Translation
      To: <manji@yahoogroups.com>

       

      So, people were confused about the reference to the toilet as "the crapper?" Well, perhaps it's a generational thing, because I've often heard older people use "crapper" but not younger people. But even I knew what that meant, lol!

      "The only normal people are the ones you don’t know well."-Joe Ancis

      Manji: Hi, Shira. Even though I don't know you well, you seem like a pretty normal guy...

      Shira: If only he knew....

      Manji: What?

      Shira: Uh, nothing, nothing. Bwahahahahahahahaha-*cough* *choke* *hack*-ha.

      Manji: *weirded out*



      --- On Tue, 8/17/10, mugen5282000 <mugen5282000@...> wrote:

      From: mugen5282000 <mugen5282000@...>
      Subject: [manji] Re: Translation
      To: manji@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 4:50 AM

       

      I used to buy both the Japanese and English volumes because I prefer the original language and like Andy, earmark the 'special' phrases and wait to see how DH translates it. I showed a few friends from Japan and even they were pretty confused by some of the translations much less the kanji used.

      True story, but I remember on back when Manji and Rin teamed up with Mugai Ryu for what would become that scheme where several women dressed like Anotsu. There was one scene where Rin asks Shira where Manji is and he replies in the crapper. It look me the longest time to find a native speaker who understood it. Of course, it was a teacher of mine back from high school and she got mad when I showed her the phrase, like it was taboo for such a thing to be said.

      But anyway, I'm actually happy to see this group still up. I stopped actively reading Mugen during the prison arc, not because it was a horrible punishment to fans, but I had to scale back on buying stuff and college, all that craziness. So I have no real idea what happened after Manji got broken out by everyone and they beat that freaky prison experiment guy.

      So fast forward a year later, I tried looking around the Internet and saw all these developments; an anime, a novel, an artbook, DH being more slow with translations, and Sasuga. Karen was really kind, understanding, and helpful when I conversed with her about orders and inventory questions. Rest in peace.

      --- In manji@yahoogroups.com, "Nagashiwa" <ryunanamiemisato@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey
      >
      > To translate from Japanese to English is always a difficult thing.
      > Don't forget that English is actually a very simple language..
      > And actually in some ways rude too.
      > And some things are just impossible to write down on English in the way how it should be.
      >
      > I actually hate to buy manga on the English language. I always read the German version or the Dutch version, because there will be more of the original language left.
      >
      > I always re-buy manga who I did read in English in the German or Dutch language depends how much I should pay for 1 volume :p
      >
      > Like I did read the Novel from Blade of the Immortal.
      > I was like, Ah it could be written more smoother and nicer.
      > So I really hope the the German publisher will maker the novel there own too.
      >
      > Not always but original English translations aren't that always that good. A lot of times the stuff from translators online are much better.
      >
      >
      > Well yeah I just keeping buy Blade of the Immortal from the German publisher and I will buy the Japanese version too, to put scans online for fans who want to be spoiled!
      >
      >
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      >
      > --- In manji@yahoogroups.com, Ang <shiraxmanji@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hey Andy!
      > >
      > > Thanks for your insightful and thoughtful response. I appreciate learning about this from someone with your knowledge of Japanese. I don't speak the language myself, so I really can't gauge anything. I hope some others will give their input, as well.
      > >
      > > Regarding the "Cocoa Puffs" reference in that movie, I tend to prefer hearing the literal Japanese pun, phrase, etc, just as a way to learn more about the culture. It's neat that they were able to find a comparable phrase, though.
      > >
      > > The main reason I asked about the translations was because I noticed a difference between Dark Horse's and a scanlation I found. Let it be known that I buy all of the official BotI books from Dark Horse and I really don't like to read ahead or find out spoilers, so I even avoid summaries online. I was looking for some larger images from the manga pages to print out (for a tattoo I want) and stumbled upon a fan translation. This surprised me, because I didn't really think there were any BotI scanlations.
      > >
      > > Out of curiosity I decided to compare the two translations of the most recent DH volume. While the fan translation was...adequate...and said essentially the same thing as the DH version, I simply didn't like it as much. Perhaps it's because I've been reading the official English version for almost a decade now, and have simply gotten used to it. But I just found the fan translation to be a bit more bare bones and sparse, I suppose. The DH dialogue is leagues more interesting and well-written. I guess it just goes to show you that quality really matters! I'd much rather pay $20+ per book than read a sub-par version for free online because I know it's money well-spent. But that's just me.
      > >
      > > Anybody else?
      > >
      > > -Angela
      > >
      > > "The only normal people are the ones you don’t know well."-Joe AncisManji: Hi, Shira. Even though I don't know you well, you seem like a pretty normal guy...Shira: If only he knew....Manji: What?Shira: Uh, nothing, nothing. Bwahahahahahahahaha-*cough* *choke* *hack*-ha.Manji: *weirded out*
      > >
      > > --- On Fri, 7/16/10, Andy Kitkowski <ziggurat@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Andy Kitkowski <ziggurat@>
      > > Subject: Re: [manji] Translation
      > > To: manji@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 10:57 AM
      > >
      > >
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      > >  
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      > > Heya Angela!
      > >
      > > I have not read recent English BotI. However, I have seen this concern with other studios and manga (or cases where basically the translation was purchased dirt cheap, therefore the translation was totally sloppy if you knew the original dialogue, in order to push it out the door and sell it faster).
      > >
      > >
      > > From what I read of Blade of the Immortal, it was literally one of the most well-done manga translations ever done that I had seen: Focusing on a very precise balance between authenticity and readability (flow), where many translators other 0willingly sacrifice one for the other to get their work done faster.
      > >
      > >
      > > I remember long ago (10 years?) when I was reading the original month-to-month in Japanese: I would come across a word or concept or sentence that I thought only had any real meaning in Japanese. So I would mark that in my mind, thinking "Hah, I wonder what they're going to translate this into in English!", thinking that I came up with a great translation that the BotI translation team would not figure out, or that something was just going to stump them.
      > >
      > >
      > > In all cases, when the English version was released, I was like, "Woah, they came up with a better translation than I would have..." or "Damn, that was a really creative use of that English expression to really get the heart of that Japanese bit across..."
      > >
      > >
      > > So yeah: Tried, tested, all-around excellent.
      > >
      > > Personally, as a Japanese and English speaker, I think that Flow is far more important than translating exactly as written, but only if done with purpose, creativity and solid, solid knowledge.
      > >
      > >
      > > For example: I can't for the life of me remember which Japanese movie it was, or where I saw it (Netflix? Downloaded?) Anyway, there was one point where this chick says (subtitled in English) "I'm Coco for Cocoa Puffs" (or something like that), where in reality she was quoting a Japanese commercial phrase that was from a long time ago, for some obscure candy or something, that happened to sound like the expression in Japanese she was trying and failing to say. I was floored, because that was in all ways a Perfect Fit (for an American audience, anyway) of what she was saying: In core meaning, in flow, and in subject matter. I mentally tipped my hat to the translator there.
      > >
      > >
      > > Ah, I remember what it was: I can't remember if it was an official translation or a fan translation, but it was from a subtitled version of the movie "Funky Forest: The First Contact" aka "Naisu no Mori", in one of the segments with the "three loud OL girls at the hot springs resort".
      > >
      > >
      > > Anyway, I pay attention to that sort of thing a lot when watching subtitled movies, going both ways (J->E with friends, E->J with wife). I like providing context to my friends if it was left out of the anime/movie, "Oh, LOL, what she was actually saying there was XYZ, which is funny because in Japan there's this TV show called...(etc etc etc)".
      > >
      > >
      > > A great example of 100% Flow Over Meaning was seeing the late 90s movie Romeo and Juliet (with Leonardo DiCaprio) in Japan, with Japanese subtitles. If you remember this movie, they use all the original (and hard to understand, anachronistic, and thus really interesting/ creative/ fun) dialogue from the Shakespeare play. But in the Japanese (subbed) version, they basically took the "meaning" of the lines, converted them into modern simple Japanese, and used those instead of the original Shakespeare text (which there are "archaic Japanese translations" of Shakespeare that are as hard/interesting for Japanese as it is for us in English).
      > >
      > >
      > > Anyway, interesting topic. What do others think?
      > >
      > > -Andy
      > >
      > > >>>>>>>
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      > > I was just wondering about something that perhaps some Japanese speakers could explain. I greatly enjoy Dark Horse's translation of BotI, but was wondering about how precise they translate and how much of the dialogue is edited to 'flow' better for English speakers?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > It's always something I'm curious about. Such translation variations are evident particularly when one sees fansubs and official subs, noting how much they can vary from translator to translator. Some people seem content to translate word for word (as much as is possible), but others appear to tweak the writing a bit. I've noticed some 'bare bones' translations in certain manga, which people seem less-than-pleased with.
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      > > And what does everyone prefer? Literal translations or something more? What seems more 'true' to the original creator's vision and purpose?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'd be grateful if anyone could explain and/or give their opinion. Thanks in advance.
      > >
      > > -Angela
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      > >  
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      >



    • mugen5282000
      At the time, I didn t have a good a grasp on Nihongo as I do now. Rereading that issue, it makes more sense to me.
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 12, 2010
        At the time, I didn't have a good a grasp on Nihongo as I do now. Rereading that issue, it makes more sense to me.

        --- In manji@yahoogroups.com, "aio075@..." <aio075@...> wrote:
        >
        > I thought the term "crapper" was properly used by the character, who I remember was Shira. I find it funnier that you had to ask...lol, Manji did saying in later panels that "whew, that was a big one" or something to that effect.
        >
        > Damn, am I considered part of that "older generation" cause i know and use that term? O.o
        >
        > It's been awhile since I've read the manga, the prisoner arc was just too long and drawn out...but I would like to finally find out the weapon Shira has hidden in his eye. And I'm pretty sure I saw who his "boy helper" turned out to be...
        >
        > The anime didn't help respark the interest like I thought it would. With all the other anime out there, I thought it was just horribly done, but that's just my opinion.
        >
        > Glad to see this still active, I'll go back to lurking as usual now...like I have been for years now...lol
        >
        > ~J
        >
        > ----- Reply message -----
        > From: "Ang" <shiraxmanji@...>
        > Date: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 9:06 pm
        > Subject: [manji] Re: Translation
        > To: <manji@yahoogroups.com>
        >
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