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Re: [magnifiers] Microsoft and accessibility

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  • Chris O'Donnell
    Hi Peter, I find that my little magnifier, Virtual Magnifying Glass, works fine with Java apps, both new and old. I tried this using the snapshot mode
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
      Hi Peter,

      I find that my little magnifier, Virtual Magnifying Glass, works fine
      with Java apps, both new and old. I tried this using the "snapshot"
      mode (default) and the beta dynamic mode which uses DirectX
      (magnification with interactive desktop). Can you mention some of the
      Java apps that the magnifiers have problems with? I want to ensure
      that I'm not missing something when it comes to Java app support, at
      least with respect to graphics.

      BTW: I'm using gmail, it tends to hide the quoted stuff very well,
      but then I usually forget to delete it anyways when sending out. I
      like gmail because it works well with Firefox and I can crank up the
      font sizes very quickly to read the screen.

      Thanks,
      -Chris O
      http://sourceforge.net/projects/magnifier

      On 12/1/05, Verhoeven, Peter <peter.verhoeven@...> wrote:
      > Hi Chris,
      >
      > Zoomtext seems to be a bit compatible sometimes with Java. But this only
      > works if you have administration rights on your computer. In practice it
      > does not work at all.
      > One day it seems to work the other day there is no caret and menu
      > tracking anymore.
      >
      > Most applications also didn't work with Zoomtext. If I click to open a
      > drop down list, in magnifications mode nothing happens.
      >
      > I never see any screen reader with speech or magnification support in
      > Java application.
      >
      > Peter Verhoeven
      >
    • Peter Verhoeven
      Hi Chris, I avoid using Java applications. At the office we have a Java application for pre-order processing. Problems already starts to login. If I enter
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
        Hi Chris,

        I avoid using Java applications. At the office we have a Java application
        for pre-order processing. Problems already starts to login. If I enter
        text,nothing seems to happen, until I turn magnification off. So, every
        action I do within that application is not magnified. I don't believe that
        company has ever heart about accessibility or Java Access Bridge, like most
        Java programmers never heard about.

        I also once tried Zoomtext with the example notepad applications that comes
        with the Java SDK, tracking seems to work the first time I tried that
        example applications, but after a couple of days, there was no tracking
        anymore.

        I do not know what the future is of direct draw techniques, but it is realy
        a danger for accessiblity of a lot of programs.

        BTW: I'm glad my company don't want Java applications anymore, because of
        the instability and high cost to maintain all those Java versions on end
        users computers.

        Regards Peter Verhoeven

        Regards Peter Verhoeven


        >
        > I find that my little magnifier, Virtual Magnifying Glass, works fine
        > with Java apps, both new and old. I tried this using the "snapshot"
        > mode (default) and the beta dynamic mode which uses DirectX
        > (magnification with interactive desktop). Can you mention some of the
        > Java apps that the magnifiers have problems with? I
      • Chris O'Donnell
        Hi Peter, About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX should improve quite nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista. One good thing about this OS
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
          Hi Peter,

          About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX should improve quite
          nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista. One good thing about
          this OS is that the entire OS uses DirectX and Windows Vista hides all
          of that behind their fancy WPM (Windows Presentation Manager)
          technology. What that really means is standard application developers
          can gain the benefits of DirectDraw without having to muck with the
          internals and app cooperation which doesn't really exist today. In
          short, it should be a lot easier to create high-quality professional
          magnifier apps which cooperate with all other apps on the system.

          My what a rosy picture, I wonder how the typical win32 app will work
          with the hypothetical Windows Vista Manifier of the Future? Better
          actually try this out soon...

          So even if this does come to pass in the near future, what does that
          leave us with? A theoretically cheaper magnifier, but a more
          expensive OS with its stricter list of hardware requirements? I'm not
          entirely sure that this is really forward progress.

          Have a nice Friday,
          -Chris O

          On 12/2/05, Peter Verhoeven <pverhoe@...> wrote:
          > I do not know what the future is of direct draw techniques, but it is realy
          > a danger for accessiblity of a lot of programs.
        • C.L.M. Toxopeus
          Hello Peter, To solve the drawing problem with Java, so you can use Java applications also in magnified mode, you have to make a file called
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
            Hello Peter,

            To solve the drawing problem with Java, so you can use
            Java applications also in magnified mode, you have to
            make a file called accessibilty.properties which
            contains the text "screen_magnifier_present=true".
            This makes sure that the screen magnification works
            with Java. Using the Java Access Bridge makes this
            file automatically. I think this property should also
            work with inferior screen magnifiers, like Supernova,
            which do not track Java well.

            Best regards,

            Kees Toxopeus

            --- Chris O'Donnell <csodonnell@...> wrote:

            > Hi Peter,
            >
            > About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX
            > should improve quite
            > nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista.
            > One good thing about
            > this OS is that the entire OS uses DirectX and
            > Windows Vista hides all
            > of that behind their fancy WPM (Windows Presentation
            > Manager)
            > technology. What that really means is standard
            > application developers
            > can gain the benefits of DirectDraw without having
            > to muck with the
            > internals and app cooperation which doesn't really
            > exist today. In
            > short, it should be a lot easier to create
            > high-quality professional
            > magnifier apps which cooperate with all other apps
            > on the system.
            >
            > My what a rosy picture, I wonder how the typical
            > win32 app will work
            > with the hypothetical Windows Vista Manifier of the
            > Future? Better
            > actually try this out soon...
            >
            > So even if this does come to pass in the near
            > future, what does that
            > leave us with? A theoretically cheaper magnifier,
            > but a more
            > expensive OS with its stricter list of hardware
            > requirements? I'm not
            > entirely sure that this is really forward progress.
            >
            > Have a nice Friday,
            > -Chris O
            >
            > On 12/2/05, Peter Verhoeven <pverhoe@...>
            > wrote:
            > > I do not know what the future is of direct draw
            > techniques, but it is realy
            > > a danger for accessiblity of a lot of programs.
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > --------------------~-->
            > Most low income households are not online. Help
            > bridge the digital divide today!
            >
            http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/8vOslB/TM
            >
            --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
            >
            >
            > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
            > http://www.magnifiers.org
            > Make It Visible!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > magnifiers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Paul
            On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 12:55:31 +0100, Peter Verhoeven ... In a perfect world; this would be so, but most software companies simplay do not care and it s not
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
              On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 12:55:31 +0100, "Peter Verhoeven"
              <pverhoe@...> wrote:

              >Hi Chris,
              >
              >My point is, that new technolgy musb be made accessible before it is
              >introduced on the market, that is exactly what section 508 from the ADA says
              >now.

              In a perfect world; this would be so, but most software companies
              simplay do not care and it's not really enforced by anyone.

              -Paul.
            • Peter Verhoeven
              Hi Chris, My point is, that new technolgy musb be made accessible before it is introduced on the market, that is exactly what section 508 from the ADA says
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
                Hi Chris,

                My point is, that new technolgy musb be made accessible before it is
                introduced on the market, that is exactly what section 508 from the ADA says
                now.

                I heard that current versions of screen readers and magnifiers work on
                Vista. But Vista must be run in a special mode. I think that would be the
                "no directdraw" mode.

                BTW: As far as I know Windows directdraw can be made much easier accessible
                than the directdraw in Java.
                In Windows XP there is also Directdraw in most screen readers you turn this
                off.

                Regards Peter Verhoeven

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Chris O'Donnell" <csodonnell@...>
                To: <magnifiers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:52 PM
                Subject: Re: [magnifiers] Microsoft and accessibility


                > Hi Peter,
                >
                > About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX should improve quite
                > nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista. One good thing about
                > this OS is that the entire OS uses DirectX and Windows Vista hides all
                > of that behind their fancy WPM (Windows Presentation Manager)
                > technology. What that really means is standard application developers
                > can gain the benefits of DirectDraw without having to muck with the
                > internals and app cooperation which doesn't really exist today. In
                > short, it should be a lot easier to create high-quality professional
                > magnifier apps which cooperate with all other apps on the system.
                >
                > My what a rosy picture, I wonder how the typical win32 app will work
                > with the hypothetical Windows Vista Manifier of the Future? Better
                > actually try this out soon...
                >
                > So even if this does come to pass in the near future, what does that
                > leave us with? A theoretically cheaper magnifier, but a more
                > expensive OS with its stricter list of hardware requirements? I'm not
                > entirely sure that this is really forward progress.
                >
                > Have a nice Friday,
                > -Chris O
                >
                > On 12/2/05, Peter Verhoeven <pverhoe@...> wrote:
                >> I do not know what the future is of direct draw techniques, but it is
                >> realy
                >> a danger for accessiblity of a lot of programs.
                >
                >
                >
                > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                > http://www.magnifiers.org
                > Make It Visible!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Peter Verhoeven
                Hi Cees, Supernova is much more than only a screen magnifier, indeed with no support for Java, but absolutely not inferior. Supernova is the only solution for
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
                  Hi Cees,

                  Supernova is much more than only a screen magnifier, indeed with no support
                  for Java, but absolutely not inferior.
                  Supernova is the only solution for people who want magnification and braille
                  support.
                  Supernova is much more stable than Zoomtext ever was on my systems.

                  The application I speak about is an applet.
                  Java messes up computers by installing all kind of versions and without
                  uninstalling something. What do you think I should do to get any screen
                  magnifier access a Java application?

                  Peter verhoeven



                  >
                  > To solve the drawing problem with Java, so you can use
                  > Java applications also in magnified mode, you have to
                  > make a file called accessibilty.properties which
                  > contains the text "screen_magnifier_present=true".
                  > This makes sure that the screen magnification works
                  > with Java. Using the Java Access Bridge makes this
                  > file automatically. I think this property should also
                  > work with inferior screen magnifiers, like Supernova,
                  > which do not track Java well.
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  >
                  > Kees Toxopeus
                  >
                  > --- Chris O'Donnell <csodonnell@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Hi Peter,
                  >>
                  >> About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX
                  >> should improve quite
                  >> nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista.
                  >> One good thing about
                  >> this OS is that the entire OS uses DirectX and
                  >> Windows Vista hides all
                  >> of that behind their fancy WPM (Windows Presentation
                  >> Manager)
                  >> technology. What that really means is standard
                  >> application developers
                  >> can gain the benefits of DirectDraw without having
                  >> to muck with the
                  >> internals and app cooperation which doesn't really
                  >> exist today. In
                  >> short, it should be a lot easier to create
                  >> high-quality professional
                  >> magnifier apps which cooperate with all other apps
                  >> on the system.
                  >>
                  >> My what a rosy picture, I wonder how the typical
                  >> win32 app will work
                  >> with the hypothetical Windows Vista Manifier of the
                  >> Future? Better
                  >> actually try this out soon...
                  >>
                  >> So even if this does come to pass in the near
                  >> future, what does that
                  >> leave us with? A theoretically cheaper magnifier,
                  >> but a more
                  >> expensive OS with its stricter list of hardware
                  >> requirements? I'm not
                  >> entirely sure that this is really forward progress.
                  >>
                  >> Have a nice Friday,
                  >> -Chris O
                  >>
                  >> On 12/2/05, Peter Verhoeven <pverhoe@...>
                  >> wrote:
                  >> > I do not know what the future is of direct draw
                  >> techniques, but it is realy
                  >> > a danger for accessiblity of a lot of programs.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                  >> http://www.magnifiers.org
                  >> Make It Visible!
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> magnifiers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ___________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk
                  > superstars - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ___________________________________________________________
                  > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with
                  > voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                  > http://www.magnifiers.org
                  > Make It Visible!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • C.L.M. Toxopeus
                  Hello Peter, OK, I was just joking about SuperNova, in magnification it is getting more similar to its competitor ZT. But that isn t the debate here. Still I
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
                    Hello Peter,

                    OK, I was just joking about SuperNova, in
                    magnification it is getting more similar to its
                    competitor ZT. But that isn't the debate here. Still I
                    have more problems using LunarPlus, than ZT 9. It runs
                    for example much slower.

                    To solve your problem with the Java applet. You could
                    try the following steps.
                    1. Make sure that the Java Runtime Environment is
                    installed on the system.
                    2. Install the Java Access Bridge, this should turn
                    direct drawing to the screen off, enabled for screen
                    magnifiers.
                    3. I suspect that you use the browser Internet
                    Explorer. Make sure it uses the Java Runtime
                    Environment and not the Microsoft implementation of
                    Java, which isn't the good one.

                    Since SupnerNova does not (yet) support Java, I do not
                    know if there will be any tracking. I hope this helps
                    solve the screen corruption problem.

                    The problems with Java are the problem that actually
                    there are two systems that have to co-operate
                    together. Java in itself has built in support for
                    accessibility. If you use the standard library
                    included in Java than you get reasonable access. In
                    Java it is recommended to use the standards. But the
                    problem is that Microsoft is less stringent in that.

                    Best regards,
                    Kees Toxopeus


                    --- Peter Verhoeven <pverhoe@...> wrote:

                    > Hi Cees,
                    >
                    > Supernova is much more than only a screen magnifier,
                    > indeed with no support
                    > for Java, but absolutely not inferior.
                    > Supernova is the only solution for people who want
                    > magnification and braille
                    > support.
                    > Supernova is much more stable than Zoomtext ever was
                    > on my systems.
                    >
                    > The application I speak about is an applet.
                    > Java messes up computers by installing all kind of
                    > versions and without
                    > uninstalling something. What do you think I should
                    > do to get any screen
                    > magnifier access a Java application?
                    >
                    > Peter verhoeven
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > To solve the drawing problem with Java, so you can
                    > use
                    > > Java applications also in magnified mode, you have
                    > to
                    > > make a file called accessibilty.properties which
                    > > contains the text "screen_magnifier_present=true".
                    > > This makes sure that the screen magnification
                    > works
                    > > with Java. Using the Java Access Bridge makes this
                    > > file automatically. I think this property should
                    > also
                    > > work with inferior screen magnifiers, like
                    > Supernova,
                    > > which do not track Java well.
                    > >
                    > > Best regards,
                    > >
                    > > Kees Toxopeus
                    > >
                    > > --- Chris O'Donnell <csodonnell@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> Hi Peter,
                    > >>
                    > >> About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX
                    > >> should improve quite
                    > >> nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista.
                    > >> One good thing about
                    > >> this OS is that the entire OS uses DirectX and
                    > >> Windows Vista hides all
                    > >> of that behind their fancy WPM (Windows
                    > Presentation
                    > >> Manager)
                    > >> technology. What that really means is standard
                    > >> application developers
                    > >> can gain the benefits of DirectDraw without
                    > having
                    > >> to muck with the
                    > >> internals and app cooperation which doesn't
                    > really
                    > >> exist today. In
                    > >> short, it should be a lot easier to create
                    > >> high-quality professional
                    > >> magnifier apps which cooperate with all other
                    > apps
                    > >> on the system.
                    > >>
                    > >> My what a rosy picture, I wonder how the typical
                    > >> win32 app will work
                    > >> with the hypothetical Windows Vista Manifier of
                    > the
                    > >> Future? Better
                    > >> actually try this out soon...
                    > >>
                    > >> So even if this does come to pass in the near
                    > >> future, what does that
                    > >> leave us with? A theoretically cheaper
                    > magnifier,
                    > >> but a more
                    > >> expensive OS with its stricter list of hardware
                    > >> requirements? I'm not
                    > >> entirely sure that this is really forward
                    > progress.
                    > >>
                    > >> Have a nice Friday,
                    > >> -Chris O
                    > >>
                    > >> On 12/2/05, Peter Verhoeven
                    > <pverhoe@...>
                    > >> wrote:
                    > >> > I do not know what the future is of direct
                    > draw
                    > >> techniques, but it is realy
                    > >> > a danger for accessiblity of a lot of
                    > programs.
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                    > >> http://www.magnifiers.org
                    > >> Make It Visible!
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> magnifiers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    ___________________________________________________________
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk
                    > > superstars -
                    > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    ___________________________________________________________
                    > > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC
                    > calling worldwide with
                    > > voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                    > > http://www.magnifiers.org
                    > > Make It Visible!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > --------------------~-->
                    > Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job).
                    > Welcome to the Sweet Life.
                    >
                    http://us.click.yahoo.com/KIlPFB/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/8vOslB/TM
                    >
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                    >
                    >
                    > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                    > http://www.magnifiers.org
                    > Make It Visible!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    > magnifiers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




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                  • BruceHP@aol.com
                    In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:53:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... You might want to search the AI2 FAQ s for JAVA. There are a number of files there. The
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
                      In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:53:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      toxnl@... writes:

                      >Using the Java Access Bridge makes this
                      >file automatically

                      You might want to search the AI2 FAQ's for JAVA. There are a number of
                      files there.

                      The new FireFox 1.5 has many new Accessibility features, and, of course, is
                      much better than IE.

                      You might also make sure that you have a up to date version of JAVA 1.4.2.



                      --================
                      Keep Shooting!
                      BruceHP@...
                      =================


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • BruceHP@aol.com
                      In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:52:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... says ... Of course, this will never happen, as, until there is a large enough base of
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
                        In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:52:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        pverhoe@... writes:

                        >My point is, that new technolgy musb be made accessible before it is
                        >introduced on the market, that is exactly what section 508 from the ADA
                        says
                        >now.

                        Of course, this will never happen, as, until there is a large enough base of
                        users, nobody will know what accessibility means. It seems to be different
                        even among a group of "blind" people.



                        --================
                        Keep Shooting!
                        BruceHP@...
                        =================


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kathy Williams
                        Unless I am more senile than I know, 508 has nothing to do with the A.D.A. It is concerned only with software bought by the Federal Government for its
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                          Unless I am more senile than I know, 508 has nothing to do with the A.D.A. It is concerned only with software bought by the Federal Government for its employees as I recall. As for accessibility relating to requirements spelled out by the A.D.A., those requirements are always tempered by the concepts of reasonable accommodation and what is financially reasonable to ask of a seller. In the case of taking something that is strongly visual such as a modern video game, and attempting to make it accessible to those who are weakly visual if visual at all, it's going to be a tough argument to justify the cost and effort on the part of the software publisher . Don't hold your breath. And don't kid yourself either, there are many visual things magnification and language cannot replace.
                        • Peter Verhoeven
                          I know of a lot of companies, including the one I work for myself, are making their products accessible for visually impaired. What is possible with physical
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                            I know of a lot of companies, including the one I work for myself, are
                            making their products accessible for visually impaired.

                            What is possible with physical products is also possible with software. Here
                            in Europe there is not such as a section 508 like in the USA. Most web sites
                            in the USA are more accessible than they are in Europe.

                            BTW: there are millions of visually impaired in the world I do not mention
                            that a small group.

                            Regards Peter Verhoeven

                            >
                            > Of course, this will never happen, as, until there is a large enough base
                            > of
                            > users, nobody will know what accessibility means. It seems to be
                            > different
                            > even among a group of "blind" people.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --================
                            > Keep Shooting!
                            > BruceHP@...
                            > =================
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                            > http://www.magnifiers.org
                            > Make It Visible!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Peter Verhoeven
                            Hi Kathy, Sorry, you are right I mean the Rehabilitation act, that is closely linked to the American with Disability Act (ADA). See
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                              Hi Kathy,

                              Sorry, you are right I mean the Rehabilitation act, that is closely linked
                              to the American with Disability Act (ADA).
                              See http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/cguide.htm

                              Section 508 applies to all products, software and service from companies
                              related to USA government. that are 40% of all large companies in the USA
                              and also a lot in Europe. In 2008 the same kind of act will be introduced in
                              EU.
                              Regards Peter Verhoeven

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Kathy Williams" <kseven@...>
                              To: <magnifiers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 10:04 AM
                              Subject: Re: [magnifiers] Microsoft and accessibility


                              > Unless I am more senile than I know, 508 has nothing to do with the A.D.A.
                              > It is concerned only with software bought by the Federal Government for
                              > its employees as I recall. As for accessibility relating to requirements
                              > spelled out by the A.D.A., those requirements are always tempered by the
                              > concepts of reasonable accommodation and what is financially reasonable
                              > to ask of a seller. In the case of taking something that is strongly
                              > visual such as a modern video game, and attempting to make it accessible
                              > to those who are weakly visual if visual at all, it's going to be a tough
                              > argument to justify the cost and effort on the part of the software
                              > publisher . Don't hold your breath. And don't kid yourself either, there
                              > are many visual things magnification and language cannot replace.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                              > http://www.magnifiers.org
                              > Make It Visible!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Raymond Marcus
                              I stared useing izoom as soon as zt chashed microsoft word when using speech recognition software. Its FREE god bless you raymond
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                I stared useing izoom as soon as zt chashed microsoft
                                word
                                when using speech recognition software. Its FREE


                                god bless you raymond



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                              • Peter Verhoeven
                                Hi Cees, I tried this a year ago, but that does not work, maybe because of Supernova does not have any support for Java,like Zoomtext has. Regards Peter
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                  Hi Cees,

                                  I tried this a year ago, but that does not work, maybe because of Supernova
                                  does not have any support for Java,like Zoomtext has.

                                  Regards Peter Verhoeven

                                  > To solve your problem with the Java applet. You could
                                  > try the following steps.
                                  > 1. Make sure that the Java Runtime Environment is
                                  > installed on the system.
                                  > 2. Install the Java Access Bridge, this should turn
                                  > direct drawing to the screen off, enabled for screen
                                  > magnifiers.
                                  > 3. I suspect that you use the browser Internet
                                  > Explorer. Make sure it uses the Java Runtime
                                  > Environment and not the Microsoft implementation of
                                  > Java, which isn't the good one.
                                  >
                                  > Since SupnerNova does not (yet) support Java, I do not
                                  > know if there will be any tracking. I hope this helps
                                  > solve the screen corruption problem.
                                  >
                                  > The problems with Java are the problem that actually
                                  > there are two systems that have to co-operate
                                  > together. Java in itself has built in support for
                                  > accessibility. If you use the standard library
                                  > included in Java than you get reasonable access. In
                                  > Java it is recommended to use the standards. But the
                                  > problem is that Microsoft is less stringent in that.
                                  >
                                  > Best regards,
                                  > Kees Toxopeus
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- Peter Verhoeven <pverhoe@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Hi Cees,
                                  >>
                                  >> Supernova is much more than only a screen magnifier,
                                  >> indeed with no support
                                  >> for Java, but absolutely not inferior.
                                  >> Supernova is the only solution for people who want
                                  >> magnification and braille
                                  >> support.
                                  >> Supernova is much more stable than Zoomtext ever was
                                  >> on my systems.
                                  >>
                                  >> The application I speak about is an applet.
                                  >> Java messes up computers by installing all kind of
                                  >> versions and without
                                  >> uninstalling something. What do you think I should
                                  >> do to get any screen
                                  >> magnifier access a Java application?
                                  >>
                                  >> Peter verhoeven
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> >
                                  >> > To solve the drawing problem with Java, so you can
                                  >> use
                                  >> > Java applications also in magnified mode, you have
                                  >> to
                                  >> > make a file called accessibilty.properties which
                                  >> > contains the text "screen_magnifier_present=true".
                                  >> > This makes sure that the screen magnification
                                  >> works
                                  >> > with Java. Using the Java Access Bridge makes this
                                  >> > file automatically. I think this property should
                                  >> also
                                  >> > work with inferior screen magnifiers, like
                                  >> Supernova,
                                  >> > which do not track Java well.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Best regards,
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Kees Toxopeus
                                  >> >
                                  >> > --- Chris O'Donnell <csodonnell@...> wrote:
                                  >> >
                                  >> >> Hi Peter,
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> About Direct draw, I think the future of DirectX
                                  >> >> should improve quite
                                  >> >> nicely. At least for the new OS, Windows Vista.
                                  >> >> One good thing about
                                  >> >> this OS is that the entire OS uses DirectX and
                                  >> >> Windows Vista hides all
                                  >> >> of that behind their fancy WPM (Windows
                                  >> Presentation
                                  >> >> Manager)
                                  >> >> technology. What that really means is standard
                                  >> >> application developers
                                  >> >> can gain the benefits of DirectDraw without
                                  >> having
                                  >> >> to muck with the
                                  >> >> internals and app cooperation which doesn't
                                  >> really
                                  >> >> exist today. In
                                  >> >> short, it should be a lot easier to create
                                  >> >> high-quality professional
                                  >> >> magnifier apps which cooperate with all other
                                  >> apps
                                  >> >> on the system.
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> My what a rosy picture, I wonder how the typical
                                  >> >> win32 app will work
                                  >> >> with the hypothetical Windows Vista Manifier of
                                  >> the
                                  >> >> Future? Better
                                  >> >> actually try this out soon...
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> So even if this does come to pass in the near
                                  >> >> future, what does that
                                  >> >> leave us with? A theoretically cheaper
                                  >> magnifier,
                                  >> >> but a more
                                  >> >> expensive OS with its stricter list of hardware
                                  >> >> requirements? I'm not
                                  >> >> entirely sure that this is really forward
                                  >> progress.
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> Have a nice Friday,
                                  >> >> -Chris O
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> On 12/2/05, Peter Verhoeven
                                  >> <pverhoe@...>
                                  >> >> wrote:
                                  >> >> > I do not know what the future is of direct
                                  >> draw
                                  >> >> techniques, but it is realy
                                  >> >> > a danger for accessiblity of a lot of
                                  >> programs.
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                                  >> >> http://www.magnifiers.org
                                  >> >> Make It Visible!
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >> magnifiers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >>
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >>
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                                  >> >
                                  >> > Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk
                                  >> > superstars -
                                  >> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/
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                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >>
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                                  >> > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC
                                  >> calling worldwide with
                                  >> > voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                                  >> > http://www.magnifiers.org
                                  >> > Make It Visible!
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                                  >> http://www.magnifiers.org
                                  >> Make It Visible!
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> magnifiers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                                  > http://www.magnifiers.org
                                  > Make It Visible!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                • BruceHP@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 12/4/2005 10:59:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... This is starting to look like Spam. --================ Keep Shooting! BruceHP@AOL.COM
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                    In a message dated 12/4/2005 10:59:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                    armarcus@... writes:

                                    >I stared useing izoom as soon as zt chashed microsoft
                                    >word >when using speech recognition software. Its FREE



                                    This is starting to look like Spam.

                                    --================
                                    Keep Shooting!
                                    BruceHP@...
                                    =================


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • BruceHP@aol.com
                                    You might want to look at this site: _http://www.technology-corner.com/20051204.shtml_ (http://www.technology-corner.com/20051204.shtml) especially the part
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                      You might want to look at this site:
                                      _http://www.technology-corner.com/20051204.shtml_
                                      (http://www.technology-corner.com/20051204.shtml)
                                      especially the part about HTML code and screen readers.

                                      --================
                                      Keep Shooting!
                                      BruceHP@...
                                      =================


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • BruceHP@aol.com
                                      In a message dated 12/4/2005 10:56:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... What happens when you turn off JAVA in your Browser. FireFox has many new Accessibility
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                        In a message dated 12/4/2005 10:56:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                        pverhoe@... writes:

                                        >Supernova does not have any support for Java,like Zoomtext has.



                                        What happens when you turn off JAVA in your Browser.

                                        FireFox has many new Accessibility functions for hot keys and Braille.

                                        --================
                                        Keep Shooting!
                                        BruceHP@...
                                        =================


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Peter Verhoeven
                                        If I turn off Java I can also launch any Java application? Peter
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                          If I turn off Java I can also launch any Java application?

                                          Peter
                                          >
                                          > What happens when you turn off JAVA in your Browser.
                                          >
                                          > FireFox has many new Accessibility functions for hot keys and Braille.
                                          >
                                          > --================
                                          > Keep Shooting!
                                          > BruceHP@...
                                          > =================
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                                          > http://www.magnifiers.org
                                          > Make It Visible!
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • BruceHP@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:42:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... That s what I asked! What reader are you using with what Web Viewer? --================
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 4, 2005
                                            In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:42:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                            pverhoe@... writes:

                                            >If I turn off Java I can also launch any Java application?



                                            That's what I asked!

                                            What reader are you using with what Web Viewer?

                                            --================
                                            Keep Shooting!
                                            BruceHP@...
                                            =================


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Verhoeven, Peter
                                            I mean I can not launch any Java application. I use Supernova with Internet explorer 6. Peter Verhoeven ... This message and attachment(s) are intended solely
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 5, 2005
                                              I mean I can not launch any Java application.
                                              I use Supernova with Internet explorer 6.

                                              Peter Verhoeven


                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: magnifiers@yahoogroups.com
                                              > [mailto:magnifiers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BruceHP@...
                                              > Sent: maandag 5 december 2005 12:15
                                              > To: magnifiers@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [magnifiers] Microsoft and accessibility
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:42:42 P.M. Eastern Standard
                                              > Time, pverhoe@... writes:
                                              >
                                              > >If I turn off Java I can also launch any Java application?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > That's what I asked!
                                              >
                                              > What reader are you using with what Web Viewer?
                                              >
                                              > --================
                                              > Keep Shooting!
                                              > BruceHP@...
                                              > =================
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > --------------------~--> Most low income households are not
                                              > online. Help bridge the digital divide today!
                                              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/8vOslB/TM
                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > ------~->
                                              >
                                              > The Screen Magnifiers Homepage
                                              > http://www.magnifiers.org
                                              > Make It Visible!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

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