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Re: [magnifiers] Screen Magnifiers Poll

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  • Peter Verhoeven
    Hi Bas, ... I think you are right about this, but it is very difficult to compare the professional screen magnifiers on things like performance, because there
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 23, 2000
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      Hi Bas,

      At 19:16 23-10-2000 +0200, you wrote:


      >Their are 2 classes of performance to judge the quality of software:
      >- Functional: What functionality does the software have?
      >- Technical: How does the software perform this functionality?

      I think you are right about this, but it is very difficult to compare the
      professional screen magnifiers on things like performance, because there
      are thousands of video drivers. It is only possible to test performance on
      most used video drivers and that is exactly what all those companies do.
      What is important, that if you buy a new computer with a modern video card
      and the screen magnifier crashes on that new technology they help you to
      solve the problem.

      >A functional aspect of magnification software could be the level of
      >magnification. A technical aspect could be the response time of the screen at
      >each level.
      >
      >When I consider functional performance of magnification software I have to
      >admit that the different brands perform quite the same: High levels of
      >magnification, text reading systems, additional speech support, etc.

      I don't agree with you that they all perform the same. There are realy
      differences between the screen magnifiers in how they perform under heavy
      conditions like running audio and video applications, graphical design
      applications and opening a lot of windows. The question is how people want
      to use their computer. ZoomText can magnify up to 16 times, while Lunar can
      magnify 32 times. Lunar provides application depending settings, ZoomText
      offers not. ZoomText has a advanced DocReader utility. Reading text in
      Lunar is much more difficult. There is a reading feature, but it has not an
      automatic page function.
      What is an important feature for somebody, maybe not an important feature
      for somebody else. For a lot of people price is very improtant. ZoomText
      level 1 cost $395, Lunar cost $195, LunarPlus cost $395, ZoomText level 2
      cost $595. But those versions of Lunar and LunarPlus only run on Windows
      9x/Me and if you want to run on Windows NT/2000 you have to pay much more
      than you pay for ZoomText, that is the only screen magnifier that runs on
      all Windows releases.

      The next release of Windows Me will be bases on Windows NT technology. The
      screen magnifiers that now only run on Windows 9x/Me will not run anymore
      on that new release. ZoomText is the most compatible screen magnifier and
      will run on that new release without much problems.

      >When I consider technical performance of this software, it's a totally
      >different story: Incompatible video drivers, not (well) supported operating
      >systems, applications that cause instability and so on... The only way to
      >measure this is to consider how frequent a vendor updates its software to
      >increase this performance and how a vendor communicates about that with its
      >customers.
      >
      >Considering the above, ZoomText is the best magnifier:
      >- Only ZoomText technical support members contribute to this mailing list.

      There are also members of Dolphin support subscribed here.

      >- ZoomText is updated most frequently.

      There are as much update on Dolphin products.

      In my opinion ZoomText is the best screen magnifier, because it is
      compatible with all Windows operating systems.

      Regards Peter Verhoeven
    • Bas Cancrinus
      ... From my point of view these are technical performance issues which are very important to measure and for the most part they define the quality of
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 24, 2000
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        Peter Verhoeven wrote:

        > I don't agree with you that they all perform the same. There are realy
        > differences between the screen magnifiers in how they perform under heavy
        > conditions like running audio and video applications, graphical design

        From my point of view these are technical performance issues which are very
        important to measure and for the most part they define the quality of
        magnification software.

        > to use their computer. ZoomText can magnify up to 16 times, while Lunar can
        > magnify 32 times. Lunar provides application depending settings, ZoomText

        An example: I'm working on a software development project which requires me to
        work with applications written in Java using Swing as GUI. My magnifier, ZoomText,
        is not capable of magnifying this type of applications (it only displays garbage).
        Do you know what magnification level I have? 0!

        > for somebody else. For a lot of people price is very improtant. ZoomText
        > level 1 cost $395, Lunar cost $195, LunarPlus cost $395, ZoomText level 2
        > cost $595. But those versions of Lunar and LunarPlus only run on Windows

        - From the Dolphin web-site:
        "*Please note, updates are subject to a £10.00 handling and carriage fee."

        - From the Ai Squared web-site:
        "Registered users of ZoomText Xtra v7.0x can download the free 7.05 update."

        > There are as much update on Dolphin products.

        You bet!

        --
        Bas E. Cancrinus <bas@...>
        Product Manager RepTrack (TM) <http://www.reptrack.nl>
        Cancrinus Groep B.V. <http://www.cancrinusgroep.nl>
      • Peter Verhoeven
        Hi Bas, ... You are right, but some behaviour also seems functional to me. ZoomText is the only screen magnifier magnifying video streams. Lunar, LP-Windows
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 25, 2000
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          Hi Bas,

          At 22:40 24-10-2000 +0200, you wrote:
          >Peter Verhoeven wrote:
          >
          > > I don't agree with you that they all perform the same. There are realy
          > > differences between the screen magnifiers in how they perform under heavy
          > > conditions like running audio and video applications, graphical design
          >
          > From my point of view these are technical performance issues which are very
          >important to measure and for the most part they define the quality of
          >magnification software.

          You are right, but some behaviour also seems functional to me. ZoomText is
          the only screen magnifier magnifying video streams. Lunar, LP-Windows and
          Magic turn the magnification of the window where the video stream is
          running off. With those screen magnifiers you can not do things like video
          editing. If you are running ZoomText level 2 by default other sounds have
          always priority. If you visit a web site with audio streaming you hear the
          audio on your PC. LunarPlus by default let you hear nothing on the web. You
          can select Orpheus Miker in there speech software, but if you use another
          speech program of speech synthesizer interfaced with SAPI you must first
          turn off speech before you visit a web page on the Internet with audio
          streaming.
          I think this is a combination of technical and functional aspects?

          >An example: I'm working on a software development project which requires me to
          >work with applications written in Java using Swing as GUI. My magnifier,
          >ZoomText,
          >is not capable of magnifying this type of applications (it only displays
          >garbage).
          >Do you know what magnification level I have? 0!

          I once saw such an application. Do you have any idea why you see garbage?
          Did you ask AiSquared to solve it?
          I think all those companies making professional screen magnifiers must pay
          more attention to Java accessibility.


          >Regards Peter Verhoeven
        • Kees Toxope�s
          hi Bas and Peter, I also asked the question earlier in this list. And there is still no screen magnifier that supports Java. ALthough ZoomText Xtra Level 2
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 25, 2000
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            hi Bas and Peter,

            I also asked the question earlier in this list. And there is still no screen
            magnifier that supports Java. ALthough ZoomText Xtra Level 2 gives no
            trouble with me. At least with the screen. However the screen reader
            function doesn't work on Java.

            greetings Kees,


            >From: Peter Verhoeven <pav@...>
            >Reply-To: magnifiers@egroups.com
            >To: magnifiers@egroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [magnifiers] Screen Magnifiers Poll
            >Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:03:38 +0200
            >
            >Hi Bas,
            >
            >At 22:40 24-10-2000 +0200, you wrote:
            > >Peter Verhoeven wrote:
            > >
            > > > I don't agree with you that they all perform the same. There are realy
            > > > differences between the screen magnifiers in how they perform under
            >heavy
            > > > conditions like running audio and video applications, graphical design
            > >
            > > From my point of view these are technical performance issues which are
            >very
            > >important to measure and for the most part they define the quality of
            > >magnification software.
            >
            >You are right, but some behaviour also seems functional to me. ZoomText is
            >the only screen magnifier magnifying video streams. Lunar, LP-Windows and
            >Magic turn the magnification of the window where the video stream is
            >running off. With those screen magnifiers you can not do things like video
            >editing. If you are running ZoomText level 2 by default other sounds have
            >always priority. If you visit a web site with audio streaming you hear the
            >audio on your PC. LunarPlus by default let you hear nothing on the web. You
            >can select Orpheus Miker in there speech software, but if you use another
            >speech program of speech synthesizer interfaced with SAPI you must first
            >turn off speech before you visit a web page on the Internet with audio
            >streaming.
            >I think this is a combination of technical and functional aspects?
            >
            > >An example: I'm working on a software development project which requires
            >me to
            > >work with applications written in Java using Swing as GUI. My magnifier,
            > >ZoomText,
            > >is not capable of magnifying this type of applications (it only displays
            > >garbage).
            > >Do you know what magnification level I have? 0!
            >
            >I once saw such an application. Do you have any idea why you see garbage?
            >Did you ask AiSquared to solve it?
            >I think all those companies making professional screen magnifiers must pay
            >more attention to Java accessibility.
            >
            >
            > >Regards Peter Verhoeven
            >
            >
            >

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          • lesliepeterson@juno.com
            Why I choice Zoomtext because it only has DocReader Display Mode Group ... I feel POLL is not worth because it might give them the wrong think. I would like
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 25, 2000
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              Why I choice Zoomtext because it only has DocReader > Display Mode Group
              > Prompter in 600x800. It is my preference to read anythings.

              I feel POLL is not worth because it might give them the wrong think. I
              would like to read the Pro and Con files about them. Or have the chart to
              show "yes or no" to each software.

              I am surprised that Window-Eye Demo is doing well with Zoomtext, but I
              will keep to play with different braille display softwares (demo) until I
              find good one with my favorite Zoomtext. I am going to be not able to
              read in a few years. So I am searching and play until I buy them the
              right ones and practice and use often.

              I am completely depending upon the braille than speech because I am
              totally deaf.

              Leslie Peterson; 5505 Bryant Ave. So.; Minneapolis Minnesota 55419 USA
              EMAIL: lesliepeterson@...
              TELETYPE:612-823-2631; TELEPHONE:800-627-3529 (relay: type <=> phone)

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            • Bas Cancrinus
              ... I agree with that. Technical performance of a magnifier has much more influence on its functionality than with most other software. Garbage on your screen
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 25, 2000
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                Peter Verhoeven wrote:

                > You are right, but some behaviour also seems functional to me. ZoomText is
                > the only screen magnifier magnifying video streams. Lunar, LP-Windows and
                > Magic turn the magnification of the window where the video stream is
                > running off. With those screen magnifiers you can not do things like video

                I agree with that. Technical performance of a magnifier has much more influence on
                its functionality than with most other software. Garbage on your screen or a reader
                that turns into a drunken robot is not a matter of inconvenience...

                > I once saw such an application. Do you have any idea why you see garbage?
                > Did you ask AiSquared to solve it?
                > I think all those companies making professional screen magnifiers must pay
                > more attention to Java accessibility.

                This happens with all Java applications and applets using the javax.swing class
                library. Even the Swing demo provided with JDK 1.2.2 doesn't work! (run "<path to
                jdk1.2.2>/demo/jfc/SwingSet/SwingSet.jar"). I reported this bug to Ai Squared and
                they promised to sort it out. But ZX 7.05 still doesn't support Swing :-(

                More and more leading software development tools are written in Java and they all
                use Swing i.e. I can't use them...

                Regards,
                Bas

                --
                Bas E. Cancrinus <bas@...>
                Product Manager RepTrack (TM) <http://www.reptrack.nl>
                Cancrinus Groep B.V. <http://www.cancrinusgroep.nl>
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