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Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client

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  • Heidi Schuppenhauer
    It s a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very different. *Online* If you have an online program, people on that network can access it. If
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2012
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      It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
      different.

      *Online*

      If you have an online program, people on that network can access it. If
      they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal Services or
      Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a few specified people.

      This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads of
      great features. Data access is fast too.

      In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access stuff
      from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought and
      links installed.

      Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to the
      user, who can use it.

      *RIA*

      RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what Citrix
      does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be processed,
      while the server is still sending it. It works really nicely, and does not
      require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
      programming and installation. It is more available to the outside world
      though, which is nice if that is what you need.

      A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you have to be
      aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
      though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.

      RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data and
      programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen locally,
      which makes the programs faster.


      *HTML Browser*

      I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website. It's
      not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but it
      works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are used to,
      and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being used.

      HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
      programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that it is
      similar to any website.


      *Installation*

      As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
      installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
      technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of hints on
      that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get through it
      though, on their own.


      On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Hi Guys,
      >
      > I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
      > "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
      >
      > More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Shaun
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Heidi Schuppenhauer
      425.397.8000

      Learn it!
      http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • matthieu
      With RIA the client does not need any kind of database client or magic runtime installation, it just requires the rich client to be loaded the first time the
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2012
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        With RIA the client does not need any kind of database client or magic runtime installation, it just requires the rich client to be loaded the first time the RIA application is launched, and the client will also automaticaly get the latest version of your software as soon as you update the version on your RIA server, this for me are some of the main advantages of the RIA compare the the client server version.

        Regards,

        Mathtieu
        --- In magicu-l@yahoogroups.com, "spivey_wa" <spivey_wa@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Guys,
        >
        > I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
        >
        > More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Shaun
        >
      • Rob Westland
        Heidi or someone else, can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access? I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written back to the
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Heidi or someone else,

          can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?

          I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written back
          to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to make an
          manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function, but is
          this watertight?
          Are there any other issues?

          Rob


          Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:
          > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
          > different.
          >
          > *Online*
          >
          > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it. If
          > they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal Services or
          > Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a few specified people.
          >
          > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads of
          > great features. Data access is fast too.
          >
          > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access stuff
          > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought and
          > links installed.
          >
          > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to the
          > user, who can use it.
          >
          > *RIA*
          >
          > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what Citrix
          > does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be processed,
          > while the server is still sending it. It works really nicely, and does not
          > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
          > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside world
          > though, which is nice if that is what you need.
          >
          > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you have to be
          > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
          > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
          >
          > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data and
          > programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen locally,
          > which makes the programs faster.
          >
          >
          > *HTML Browser*
          >
          > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website. It's
          > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but it
          > works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are used to,
          > and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being used.
          >
          > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
          > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that it is
          > similar to any website.
          >
          >
          > *Installation*
          >
          > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
          > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
          > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of hints on
          > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get through it
          > though, on their own.
          >
          >
          > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...> wrote:
          >
          >> **
          >>
          >>
          >> Hi Guys,
          >>
          >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
          >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
          >>
          >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
          >>
          >> Thanks
          >>
          >> Shaun
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
        • Alex Medvedovski
          Just to add... if you are planning to develop anything for the mobile devices, you will have to use RIA. Alex AMC Software http://www.amc-software.com
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2012
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            Just to add... if you are planning to develop anything for the mobile devices, you will have to use RIA.

            Alex
            AMC Software
            http://www.amc-software.com


            --- In magicu-l@yahoogroups.com, Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis13@...> wrote:
            >
            > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
            > different.
            >
            > *Online*
            >
            > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it. If
            > they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal Services or
            > Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a few specified people.
            >
            > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads of
            > great features. Data access is fast too.
            >
            > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access stuff
            > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought and
            > links installed.
            >
            > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to the
            > user, who can use it.
            >
            > *RIA*
            >
            > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what Citrix
            > does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be processed,
            > while the server is still sending it. It works really nicely, and does not
            > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
            > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside world
            > though, which is nice if that is what you need.
            >
            > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you have to be
            > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
            > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
            >
            > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data and
            > programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen locally,
            > which makes the programs faster.
            >
            >
            > *HTML Browser*
            >
            > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website. It's
            > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but it
            > works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are used to,
            > and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being used.
            >
            > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
            > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that it is
            > similar to any website.
            >
            >
            > *Installation*
            >
            > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
            > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
            > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of hints on
            > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get through it
            > though, on their own.
            >
            >
            > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Guys,
            > >
            > > I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
            > > "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
            > >
            > > More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
            > >
            > > Thanks
            > >
            > > Shaun
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Heidi Schuppenhauer
            > 425.397.8000
            >
            > Learn it!
            > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Diego Balé (Lektros Soluciones)
            One thing regarding licenses in online and ria… Like in client/server you’ll need runtime licenses to work with RIA It is not like PHP or ASP… where you
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2012
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              One thing regarding licenses in online and ria…

              Like in client/server you’ll need runtime licenses to work with RIA

              It is not like PHP or ASP… where you can develop an app and when you put it
              online everybody can use it…

              With RIA in XPA you should buy as many runtime licenses as people you expect
              to use your app at the same time [concurrent useres]… and also you should
              think the DB licenses if you’re not using a free one.



              And another one more thing:

              When you use RIA you should always be connected to the internet.

              You cannot develop a local app into a mobile device. Without internet and a
              server listening your requests, you cannot use RIA.



              Bye!







              De: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de
              Alex Medvedovski
              Enviado el: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:01 AM
              Para: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
              Asunto: [magicu-l] Re: Online vs Rich Client





              Just to add... if you are planning to develop anything for the mobile
              devices, you will have to use RIA.

              Alex
              AMC Software
              http://www.amc-software.com

              --- In magicu-l@yahoogroups.com <mailto:magicu-l%40yahoogroups.com> , Heidi
              Schuppenhauer <heidis13@...> wrote:
              >
              > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
              > different.
              >
              > *Online*
              >
              > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it. If
              > they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal Services or
              > Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a few specified
              people.
              >
              > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads of
              > great features. Data access is fast too.
              >
              > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access stuff
              > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought and
              > links installed.
              >
              > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to the
              > user, who can use it.
              >
              > *RIA*
              >
              > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what Citrix
              > does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be processed,
              > while the server is still sending it. It works really nicely, and does not
              > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
              > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside world
              > though, which is nice if that is what you need.
              >
              > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you have to
              be
              > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
              > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
              >
              > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data and
              > programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen locally,
              > which makes the programs faster.
              >
              >
              > *HTML Browser*
              >
              > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website. It's
              > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but it
              > works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are used to,
              > and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being used.
              >
              > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
              > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that it is
              > similar to any website.
              >
              >
              > *Installation*
              >
              > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
              > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
              > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of hints on
              > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get through it
              > though, on their own.
              >
              >
              > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Guys,
              > >
              > > I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
              > > "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
              > >
              > > More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
              > >
              > > Thanks
              > >
              > > Shaun
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Heidi Schuppenhauer
              > 425.397.8000
              >
              > Learn it!
              > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Heidi Schuppenhauer
              Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small cache of records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back to the
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache" of
                records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back
                to the server. This makes response time rather quick.

                Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it
                either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For
                instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and merge
                the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering
                uniPaaS. See:

                Database
                Pg 944
                How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When
                Several Users are Modifying the Same Row?


                I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to
                look at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and
                decide if that's how you want it to work.



                On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Heidi or someone else,
                >
                > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?
                >
                > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written back
                > to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to make an
                > manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function, but is
                > this watertight?
                > Are there any other issues?
                >
                > Rob
                >
                > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:
                > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
                > > different.
                > >
                > > *Online*
                > >
                > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it. If
                > > they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal Services or
                > > Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a few specified
                > people.
                > >
                > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads of
                > > great features. Data access is fast too.
                > >
                > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access
                > stuff
                > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought and
                > > links installed.
                > >
                > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to the
                > > user, who can use it.
                > >
                > > *RIA*
                > >
                > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what Citrix
                > > does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be processed,
                > > while the server is still sending it. It works really nicely, and does
                > not
                > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
                > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside world
                > > though, which is nice if that is what you need.
                > >
                > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you have to
                > be
                > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
                > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
                > >
                > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data and
                > > programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen locally,
                > > which makes the programs faster.
                > >
                > >
                > > *HTML Browser*
                > >
                > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.
                > It's
                > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but it
                > > works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are used to,
                > > and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being used.
                > >
                > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
                > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that it is
                > > similar to any website.
                > >
                > >
                > > *Installation*
                > >
                > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
                > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
                > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of hints
                > on
                > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get through
                > it
                > > though, on their own.
                > >
                > >
                > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Hi Guys,
                > >>
                > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
                > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
                > >>
                > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
                > >>
                > >> Thanks
                > >>
                > >> Shaun
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Heidi Schuppenhauer
                425.397.8000

                Learn it!
                http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Dowbiggin
                Hi A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have found that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly where
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 2, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi

                  A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have found
                  that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly where
                  subforms are required. At one stage I was looking at some work where there
                  were a lot of programs that would have a parent browser with a subprogram
                  program for adding/maintaining records. The big difficulty with RIA is that
                  a subform task only refreshes parameters back to the parent task when it
                  closes, but if it closes it also closes the parent, which makes it very
                  difficult to get details of data added in the subform task displaying in the
                  parent browser. In the end, I abandoned RIA for this particular project and
                  looked at online and terminal server.

                  However, RIA has been good for simpler projects, such as goods receiving and
                  stock takes, where multi-layered data entry has not been required. I also
                  found the time it takes to get a RIA app working is longer than online -
                  that might be inexperience but I did find quite a lot of difference at a
                  detail level.

                  John

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Heidi Schuppenhauer
                  Sent: 01 November 2012 18:13
                  To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client

                  Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache" of
                  records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back
                  to the server. This makes response time rather quick.

                  Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it
                  either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For
                  instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and merge
                  the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering
                  uniPaaS. See:

                  Database
                  Pg 944
                  How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When Several Users are Modifying the
                  Same Row?


                  I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to look
                  at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and decide if
                  that's how you want it to work.



                  On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Heidi or someone else,
                  >
                  > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?
                  >
                  > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written
                  > back to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to
                  > make an manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function,
                  > but is this watertight?
                  > Are there any other issues?
                  >
                  > Rob
                  >
                  > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:
                  > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
                  > > different.
                  > >
                  > > *Online*
                  > >
                  > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it.
                  > > If they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal
                  > > Services or Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a
                  > > few specified
                  > people.
                  > >
                  > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads
                  > > of great features. Data access is fast too.
                  > >
                  > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access
                  > stuff
                  > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought
                  > > and links installed.
                  > >
                  > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to
                  > > the user, who can use it.
                  > >
                  > > *RIA*
                  > >
                  > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what
                  > > Citrix does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be
                  > > processed, while the server is still sending it. It works really
                  > > nicely, and does
                  > not
                  > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
                  > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside
                  > > world though, which is nice if that is what you need.
                  > >
                  > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you
                  > > have to
                  > be
                  > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
                  > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
                  > >
                  > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data
                  > > and programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen
                  > > locally, which makes the programs faster.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > *HTML Browser*
                  > >
                  > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.
                  > It's
                  > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but
                  > > it works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are
                  > > used to, and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being
                  used.
                  > >
                  > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
                  > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that
                  > > it is similar to any website.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > *Installation*
                  > >
                  > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
                  > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
                  > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of
                  > > hints
                  > on
                  > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get
                  > > through
                  > it
                  > > though, on their own.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> **
                  >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Hi Guys,
                  > >>
                  > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
                  > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
                  > >>
                  > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
                  > >>
                  > >> Thanks
                  > >>
                  > >> Shaun
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Heidi Schuppenhauer
                  425.397.8000

                  Learn it!
                  http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • KatanaBeach
                  I m going to provide a simpler answer for Shawn. Use online for private network solutions. Consider RIA for solutions which will require access via the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 2, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I'm going to provide a simpler answer for Shawn. Use online for private network solutions. Consider RIA for solutions which will require access via the internet. (This assumes terminal server or citrix are NOT a consideration for you.) If you have that resource available then Online is the best solution. However, if the user could be anyone, then provisioning may be an issue in a TS environment so RIA or one of the other browser(HTML merge etc) solutions is a viable alternative. However, If your Magic experience it online only then - IMHO -the learning curve and implementation of the infrastructure is fairly daunting.

                    --- In magicu-l@yahoogroups.com, "John Dowbiggin" <john@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi
                    >
                    > A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have found
                    > that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly where
                    > subforms are required. At one stage I was looking at some work where there
                    > were a lot of programs that would have a parent browser with a subprogram
                    > program for adding/maintaining records. The big difficulty with RIA is that
                    > a subform task only refreshes parameters back to the parent task when it
                    > closes, but if it closes it also closes the parent, which makes it very
                    > difficult to get details of data added in the subform task displaying in the
                    > parent browser. In the end, I abandoned RIA for this particular project and
                    > looked at online and terminal server.
                    >
                    > However, RIA has been good for simpler projects, such as goods receiving and
                    > stock takes, where multi-layered data entry has not been required. I also
                    > found the time it takes to get a RIA app working is longer than online -
                    > that might be inexperience but I did find quite a lot of difference at a
                    > detail level.
                    >
                    > John
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Heidi Schuppenhauer
                    > Sent: 01 November 2012 18:13
                    > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client
                    >
                    > Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache" of
                    > records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back
                    > to the server. This makes response time rather quick.
                    >
                    > Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it
                    > either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For
                    > instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and merge
                    > the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering
                    > uniPaaS. See:
                    >
                    > Database
                    > Pg 944
                    > How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When Several Users are Modifying the
                    > Same Row?
                    >
                    >
                    > I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to look
                    > at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and decide if
                    > that's how you want it to work.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Heidi or someone else,
                    > >
                    > > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?
                    > >
                    > > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written
                    > > back to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to
                    > > make an manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function,
                    > > but is this watertight?
                    > > Are there any other issues?
                    > >
                    > > Rob
                    > >
                    > > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:
                    > > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
                    > > > different.
                    > > >
                    > > > *Online*
                    > > >
                    > > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it.
                    > > > If they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal
                    > > > Services or Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a
                    > > > few specified
                    > > people.
                    > > >
                    > > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads
                    > > > of great features. Data access is fast too.
                    > > >
                    > > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access
                    > > stuff
                    > > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought
                    > > > and links installed.
                    > > >
                    > > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to
                    > > > the user, who can use it.
                    > > >
                    > > > *RIA*
                    > > >
                    > > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what
                    > > > Citrix does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be
                    > > > processed, while the server is still sending it. It works really
                    > > > nicely, and does
                    > > not
                    > > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
                    > > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside
                    > > > world though, which is nice if that is what you need.
                    > > >
                    > > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you
                    > > > have to
                    > > be
                    > > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
                    > > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
                    > > >
                    > > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data
                    > > > and programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen
                    > > > locally, which makes the programs faster.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > *HTML Browser*
                    > > >
                    > > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.
                    > > It's
                    > > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but
                    > > > it works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are
                    > > > used to, and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being
                    > used.
                    > > >
                    > > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
                    > > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that
                    > > > it is similar to any website.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > *Installation*
                    > > >
                    > > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
                    > > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
                    > > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of
                    > > > hints
                    > > on
                    > > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get
                    > > > through
                    > > it
                    > > > though, on their own.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >> **
                    > >
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Hi Guys,
                    > > >>
                    > > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
                    > > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Thanks
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Shaun
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Heidi Schuppenhauer
                    > 425.397.8000
                    >
                    > Learn it!
                    > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                  • Tim Downie
                    Im not sure what your saying there about sub forms in RIA......we have multi entry level multi subform invoicing etc , high volume ordering in RIA.... There is
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 4, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Im not sure what your saying there about sub forms in RIA......we have multi entry level multi subform invoicing etc , high volume ordering in RIA....

                      There is a learning curve with RIA like anything....however Ill say that as we have mainly been doing RIA in V1.9 and 2.0 I could build and RIA faster than I could a GUI app now.....
                      Once you suffer than initial pain, I think youd much prefer writing RIA apps as opposed to HTML......



                      To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                      From: john@...
                      Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:57:16 +0000
                      Subject: RE: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client


























                      Hi



                      A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have found

                      that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly where

                      subforms are required. At one stage I was looking at some work where there

                      were a lot of programs that would have a parent browser with a subprogram

                      program for adding/maintaining records. The big difficulty with RIA is that

                      a subform task only refreshes parameters back to the parent task when it

                      closes, but if it closes it also closes the parent, which makes it very

                      difficult to get details of data added in the subform task displaying in the

                      parent browser. In the end, I abandoned RIA for this particular project and

                      looked at online and terminal server.



                      However, RIA has been good for simpler projects, such as goods receiving and

                      stock takes, where multi-layered data entry has not been required. I also

                      found the time it takes to get a RIA app working is longer than online -

                      that might be inexperience but I did find quite a lot of difference at a

                      detail level.



                      John



                      -----Original Message-----

                      From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

                      Of Heidi Schuppenhauer

                      Sent: 01 November 2012 18:13

                      To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com

                      Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client



                      Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache" of

                      records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back

                      to the server. This makes response time rather quick.



                      Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it

                      either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For

                      instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and merge

                      the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering

                      uniPaaS. See:



                      Database

                      Pg 944

                      How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When Several Users are Modifying the

                      Same Row?



                      I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to look

                      at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and decide if

                      that's how you want it to work.



                      On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:



                      > **

                      >

                      >

                      > Heidi or someone else,

                      >

                      > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?

                      >

                      > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written

                      > back to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to

                      > make an manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function,

                      > but is this watertight?

                      > Are there any other issues?

                      >

                      > Rob

                      >

                      > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:

                      > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very

                      > > different.

                      > >

                      > > *Online*

                      > >

                      > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it.

                      > > If they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal

                      > > Services or Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a

                      > > few specified

                      > people.

                      > >

                      > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads

                      > > of great features. Data access is fast too.

                      > >

                      > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access

                      > stuff

                      > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought

                      > > and links installed.

                      > >

                      > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to

                      > > the user, who can use it.

                      > >

                      > > *RIA*

                      > >

                      > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what

                      > > Citrix does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be

                      > > processed, while the server is still sending it. It works really

                      > > nicely, and does

                      > not

                      > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of

                      > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside

                      > > world though, which is nice if that is what you need.

                      > >

                      > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you

                      > > have to

                      > be

                      > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice

                      > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.

                      > >

                      > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data

                      > > and programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen

                      > > locally, which makes the programs faster.

                      > >

                      > >

                      > > *HTML Browser*

                      > >

                      > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.

                      > It's

                      > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but

                      > > it works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are

                      > > used to, and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being

                      used.

                      > >

                      > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online

                      > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that

                      > > it is similar to any website.

                      > >

                      > >

                      > > *Installation*

                      > >

                      > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get

                      > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new

                      > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of

                      > > hints

                      > on

                      > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get

                      > > through

                      > it

                      > > though, on their own.

                      > >

                      > >

                      > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>

                      > wrote:

                      > >

                      > >> **

                      >

                      > >>

                      > >>

                      > >> Hi Guys,

                      > >>

                      > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an

                      > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.

                      > >>

                      > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.

                      > >>

                      > >> Thanks

                      > >>

                      > >> Shaun

                      > >>

                      > >>

                      > >>

                      > >

                      > >

                      >

                      >

                      >



                      --

                      Heidi Schuppenhauer

                      425.397.8000



                      Learn it!

                      http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ------------------------------------



                      Yahoo! Groups Links


















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Heidi Schuppenhauer
                      I think a lot of it might have to do with legacy systems too. If you HAVE a system that works well in online programming, and is only used by internal
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 4, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I think a lot of it might have to do with legacy systems too. If you HAVE a
                        system that works well in online programming, and is only used by internal
                        employees, using Citrix or Terminal Services is decidedly easier and
                        quicker.

                        If you are trying to reach the general public, RIA or HTML Merge both work:
                        online and Citrix not so much. RIA is easier than HTML, esp. if you want
                        complex forms. HTML Merge is better if you need to integrate with "a
                        website" that is mostly maintained by other people.

                        If you are writing a system from scratch ... hmmm. If you go from ground up
                        with RIA, you do have a lot of flexibility, and your programmers will know
                        how it works. And there won't be the overhead of installation issues.

                        Personally I like the Citrix or Terminal Services model, which is
                        essentially a "screen scraper" ... easy for me to handle. But there is an
                        overhead to it, requiring licenses and administration issues. I'm not sure
                        what I would do if I was starting a new system.





                        On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Tim Downie <tim_downie@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Im not sure what your saying there about sub forms in RIA......we have
                        > multi entry level multi subform invoicing etc , high volume ordering in
                        > RIA....
                        >
                        > There is a learning curve with RIA like anything....however Ill say that
                        > as we have mainly been doing RIA in V1.9 and 2.0 I could build and RIA
                        > faster than I could a GUI app now.....
                        > Once you suffer than initial pain, I think youd much prefer writing RIA
                        > apps as opposed to HTML......
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: john@...
                        > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:57:16 +0000
                        > Subject: RE: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have found
                        >
                        > that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly where
                        >
                        > subforms are required. At one stage I was looking at some work where there
                        >
                        > were a lot of programs that would have a parent browser with a subprogram
                        >
                        > program for adding/maintaining records. The big difficulty with RIA is
                        > that
                        >
                        > a subform task only refreshes parameters back to the parent task when it
                        >
                        > closes, but if it closes it also closes the parent, which makes it very
                        >
                        > difficult to get details of data added in the subform task displaying in
                        > the
                        >
                        > parent browser. In the end, I abandoned RIA for this particular project
                        > and
                        >
                        > looked at online and terminal server.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > However, RIA has been good for simpler projects, such as goods receiving
                        > and
                        >
                        > stock takes, where multi-layered data entry has not been required. I also
                        >
                        > found the time it takes to get a RIA app working is longer than online -
                        >
                        > that might be inexperience but I did find quite a lot of difference at a
                        >
                        > detail level.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > John
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        >
                        > From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        >
                        > Of Heidi Schuppenhauer
                        >
                        > Sent: 01 November 2012 18:13
                        >
                        > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache" of
                        >
                        > records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back
                        >
                        > to the server. This makes response time rather quick.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it
                        >
                        > either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For
                        >
                        > instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and merge
                        >
                        > the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering
                        >
                        > uniPaaS. See:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Database
                        >
                        > Pg 944
                        >
                        > How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When Several Users are Modifying the
                        >
                        > Same Row?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to
                        > look
                        >
                        > at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and decide if
                        >
                        > that's how you want it to work.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > **
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > Heidi or someone else,
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written
                        >
                        > > back to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to
                        >
                        > > make an manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function,
                        >
                        > > but is this watertight?
                        >
                        > > Are there any other issues?
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > Rob
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:
                        >
                        > > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
                        >
                        > > > different.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > *Online*
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it.
                        >
                        > > > If they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal
                        >
                        > > > Services or Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a
                        >
                        > > > few specified
                        >
                        > > people.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads
                        >
                        > > > of great features. Data access is fast too.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access
                        >
                        > > stuff
                        >
                        > > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought
                        >
                        > > > and links installed.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to
                        >
                        > > > the user, who can use it.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > *RIA*
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what
                        >
                        > > > Citrix does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be
                        >
                        > > > processed, while the server is still sending it. It works really
                        >
                        > > > nicely, and does
                        >
                        > > not
                        >
                        > > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
                        >
                        > > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside
                        >
                        > > > world though, which is nice if that is what you need.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you
                        >
                        > > > have to
                        >
                        > > be
                        >
                        > > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
                        >
                        > > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data
                        >
                        > > > and programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen
                        >
                        > > > locally, which makes the programs faster.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > *HTML Browser*
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.
                        >
                        > > It's
                        >
                        > > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but
                        >
                        > > > it works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are
                        >
                        > > > used to, and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being
                        >
                        > used.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
                        >
                        > > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that
                        >
                        > > > it is similar to any website.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > *Installation*
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
                        >
                        > > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
                        >
                        > > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of
                        >
                        > > > hints
                        >
                        > > on
                        >
                        > > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get
                        >
                        > > > through
                        >
                        > > it
                        >
                        > > > though, on their own.
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>
                        >
                        > > wrote:
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > >> **
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >> Hi Guys,
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
                        >
                        > > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >> Thanks
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >> Shaun
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >>
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > Heidi Schuppenhauer
                        >
                        > 425.397.8000
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Learn it!
                        >
                        > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
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                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        --
                        Heidi Schuppenhauer
                        425.397.8000

                        Learn it!
                        http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Tim Downie
                        i still think RIA is more for business application and not for general use(like what ud do with HTML) with RIA your number of concurrent users needs to be
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 5, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          i still think RIA is more for business application and not for general use(like what ud do with HTML) with RIA your number of concurrent users needs to be quantifiable or you wont be able to factor the license cost...vs html where 5 magic engines can server a HUGE volume of requests/users.
                          if your looking at building an application that needs to run over the web and you dont have(or dont want) the citrix / rdp servers etc....RIA is the way , you dont have to have the users setting up vpns etc....and one the server side its very light....we have one webserver server 100s of concurrent users.....your not putting 100 of concurrent users on one citrix box(i dont think)
                          knowing what I know now ...if my users are on the internet and you have a heavy data entry requirement id go RIA over HTML no doubt about it ......so much easier to maintain....and its once you know the quirks its just the standard magic programming.....not a line of html / jscript anywhere......and easily deployed...

                          To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                          From: heidis13@...
                          Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:23:54 -0800
                          Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client


























                          I think a lot of it might have to do with legacy systems too. If you HAVE a

                          system that works well in online programming, and is only used by internal

                          employees, using Citrix or Terminal Services is decidedly easier and

                          quicker.



                          If you are trying to reach the general public, RIA or HTML Merge both work:

                          online and Citrix not so much. RIA is easier than HTML, esp. if you want

                          complex forms. HTML Merge is better if you need to integrate with "a

                          website" that is mostly maintained by other people.



                          If you are writing a system from scratch ... hmmm. If you go from ground up

                          with RIA, you do have a lot of flexibility, and your programmers will know

                          how it works. And there won't be the overhead of installation issues.



                          Personally I like the Citrix or Terminal Services model, which is

                          essentially a "screen scraper" ... easy for me to handle. But there is an

                          overhead to it, requiring licenses and administration issues. I'm not sure

                          what I would do if I was starting a new system.



                          On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Tim Downie <tim_downie@...> wrote:



                          >

                          > Im not sure what your saying there about sub forms in RIA......we have

                          > multi entry level multi subform invoicing etc , high volume ordering in

                          > RIA....

                          >

                          > There is a learning curve with RIA like anything....however Ill say that

                          > as we have mainly been doing RIA in V1.9 and 2.0 I could build and RIA

                          > faster than I could a GUI app now.....

                          > Once you suffer than initial pain, I think youd much prefer writing RIA

                          > apps as opposed to HTML......

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com

                          > From: john@...

                          > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:57:16 +0000

                          > Subject: RE: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Hi

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have found

                          >

                          > that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly where

                          >

                          > subforms are required. At one stage I was looking at some work where there

                          >

                          > were a lot of programs that would have a parent browser with a subprogram

                          >

                          > program for adding/maintaining records. The big difficulty with RIA is

                          > that

                          >

                          > a subform task only refreshes parameters back to the parent task when it

                          >

                          > closes, but if it closes it also closes the parent, which makes it very

                          >

                          > difficult to get details of data added in the subform task displaying in

                          > the

                          >

                          > parent browser. In the end, I abandoned RIA for this particular project

                          > and

                          >

                          > looked at online and terminal server.

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > However, RIA has been good for simpler projects, such as goods receiving

                          > and

                          >

                          > stock takes, where multi-layered data entry has not been required. I also

                          >

                          > found the time it takes to get a RIA app working is longer than online -

                          >

                          > that might be inexperience but I did find quite a lot of difference at a

                          >

                          > detail level.

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > John

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > -----Original Message-----

                          >

                          > From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

                          >

                          > Of Heidi Schuppenhauer

                          >

                          > Sent: 01 November 2012 18:13

                          >

                          > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com

                          >

                          > Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache" of

                          >

                          > records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic back

                          >

                          > to the server. This makes response time rather quick.

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it

                          >

                          > either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For

                          >

                          > instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and merge

                          >

                          > the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering

                          >

                          > uniPaaS. See:

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Database

                          >

                          > Pg 944

                          >

                          > How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When Several Users are Modifying the

                          >

                          > Same Row?

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to

                          > look

                          >

                          > at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and decide if

                          >

                          > that's how you want it to work.

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > > **

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > Heidi or someone else,

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written

                          >

                          > > back to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to

                          >

                          > > make an manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function,

                          >

                          > > but is this watertight?

                          >

                          > > Are there any other issues?

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > Rob

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:

                          >

                          > > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very

                          >

                          > > > different.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > *Online*

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it.

                          >

                          > > > If they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal

                          >

                          > > > Services or Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a

                          >

                          > > > few specified

                          >

                          > > people.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads

                          >

                          > > > of great features. Data access is fast too.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access

                          >

                          > > stuff

                          >

                          > > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought

                          >

                          > > > and links installed.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to

                          >

                          > > > the user, who can use it.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > *RIA*

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what

                          >

                          > > > Citrix does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be

                          >

                          > > > processed, while the server is still sending it. It works really

                          >

                          > > > nicely, and does

                          >

                          > > not

                          >

                          > > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of

                          >

                          > > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside

                          >

                          > > > world though, which is nice if that is what you need.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you

                          >

                          > > > have to

                          >

                          > > be

                          >

                          > > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice

                          >

                          > > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data

                          >

                          > > > and programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen

                          >

                          > > > locally, which makes the programs faster.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > *HTML Browser*

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.

                          >

                          > > It's

                          >

                          > > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but

                          >

                          > > > it works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are

                          >

                          > > > used to, and can be integrated into whatever website is currently being

                          >

                          > used.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online

                          >

                          > > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that

                          >

                          > > > it is similar to any website.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > *Installation*

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get

                          >

                          > > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new

                          >

                          > > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of

                          >

                          > > > hints

                          >

                          > > on

                          >

                          > > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get

                          >

                          > > > through

                          >

                          > > it

                          >

                          > > > though, on their own.

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>

                          >

                          > > wrote:

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > >> **

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >> Hi Guys,

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an

                          >

                          > > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use which.

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >> Thanks

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >> Shaun

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >>

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          > >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > --

                          >

                          > Heidi Schuppenhauer

                          >

                          > 425.397.8000

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Learn it!

                          >

                          > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > ------------------------------------

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Yahoo! Groups Links

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > ------------------------------------

                          >

                          > Yahoo! Groups Links

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >



                          --

                          Heidi Schuppenhauer

                          425.397.8000



                          Learn it!

                          http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Heidi Schuppenhauer
                          Coincidentally enough, the next few weeks at ThinkTank, I ll be discussing HTML Merge basics. So people who are curious about the classic webservices with
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 5, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Coincidentally enough, the next few weeks at ThinkTank, I'll be discussing
                            HTML Merge basics. So people who are curious about the "classic"
                            webservices with Magic, you can check here weekly for the topic:

                            http://unipaasusers.blogspot.com/p/meeting-schedule.html

                            What I'm finding is that with HTML 5, you can do more and more in plain ol'
                            HTML, and if the website is well-designed, it can be pretty easy to
                            maintain too.



                            On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:24 AM, Tim Downie <tim_downie@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > i still think RIA is more for business application and not for general
                            > use(like what ud do with HTML) with RIA your number of concurrent users
                            > needs to be quantifiable or you wont be able to factor the license
                            > cost...vs html where 5 magic engines can server a HUGE volume of
                            > requests/users.
                            > if your looking at building an application that needs to run over the web
                            > and you dont have(or dont want) the citrix / rdp servers etc....RIA is the
                            > way , you dont have to have the users setting up vpns etc....and one the
                            > server side its very light....we have one webserver server 100s of
                            > concurrent users.....your not putting 100 of concurrent users on one citrix
                            > box(i dont think)
                            > knowing what I know now ...if my users are on the internet and you have a
                            > heavy data entry requirement id go RIA over HTML no doubt about it ......so
                            > much easier to maintain....and its once you know the quirks its just the
                            > standard magic programming.....not a line of html / jscript
                            > anywhere......and easily deployed...
                            >
                            > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: heidis13@...
                            > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:23:54 -0800
                            > Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I think a lot of it might have to do with legacy systems too. If you
                            > HAVE a
                            >
                            > system that works well in online programming, and is only used by internal
                            >
                            > employees, using Citrix or Terminal Services is decidedly easier and
                            >
                            > quicker.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > If you are trying to reach the general public, RIA or HTML Merge both work:
                            >
                            > online and Citrix not so much. RIA is easier than HTML, esp. if you want
                            >
                            > complex forms. HTML Merge is better if you need to integrate with "a
                            >
                            > website" that is mostly maintained by other people.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > If you are writing a system from scratch ... hmmm. If you go from ground up
                            >
                            > with RIA, you do have a lot of flexibility, and your programmers will know
                            >
                            > how it works. And there won't be the overhead of installation issues.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Personally I like the Citrix or Terminal Services model, which is
                            >
                            > essentially a "screen scraper" ... easy for me to handle. But there is an
                            >
                            > overhead to it, requiring licenses and administration issues. I'm not sure
                            >
                            > what I would do if I was starting a new system.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Tim Downie <tim_downie@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Im not sure what your saying there about sub forms in RIA......we have
                            >
                            > > multi entry level multi subform invoicing etc , high volume ordering in
                            >
                            > > RIA....
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > There is a learning curve with RIA like anything....however Ill say that
                            >
                            > > as we have mainly been doing RIA in V1.9 and 2.0 I could build and RIA
                            >
                            > > faster than I could a GUI app now.....
                            >
                            > > Once you suffer than initial pain, I think youd much prefer writing RIA
                            >
                            > > apps as opposed to HTML......
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > > From: john@...
                            >
                            > > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:57:16 +0000
                            >
                            > > Subject: RE: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Hi
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > A point or two on the design of the different methodologies. I have
                            > found
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > that in RIA you have to be very wary of complex program, particularly
                            > where
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > subforms are required. At one stage I was looking at some work where
                            > there
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > were a lot of programs that would have a parent browser with a subprogram
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > program for adding/maintaining records. The big difficulty with RIA is
                            >
                            > > that
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > a subform task only refreshes parameters back to the parent task when it
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > closes, but if it closes it also closes the parent, which makes it very
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > difficult to get details of data added in the subform task displaying in
                            >
                            > > the
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > parent browser. In the end, I abandoned RIA for this particular project
                            >
                            > > and
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > looked at online and terminal server.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > However, RIA has been good for simpler projects, such as goods receiving
                            >
                            > > and
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > stock takes, where multi-layered data entry has not been required. I
                            > also
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > found the time it takes to get a RIA app working is longer than online -
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > that might be inexperience but I did find quite a lot of difference at a
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > detail level.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > John
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Of Heidi Schuppenhauer
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Sent: 01 November 2012 18:13
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Subject: Re: [magicu-l] Online vs Rich Client
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Yes, RIA uses deferred transactions. Basically it sends a small "cache"
                            > of
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > records to the client, where they can be processed without any traffic
                            > back
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > to the server. This makes response time rather quick.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Deferred locking is really interesting, and I'm not sure I understand it
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > either. Part of how it works depends on how it is set up to work. For
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > instance, you CAN have two people working on the same SQL record, and
                            > merge
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > the results when both people save. There is some explanation in Mastering
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > uniPaaS. See:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Database
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Pg 944
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > How Can I Determine uniPaaS Behavior When Several Users are Modifying the
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Same Row?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > I think when you are defining a RIA application, it would make sense to
                            >
                            > > look
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > at the Debugger and see how the locking is actually working, and decide
                            > if
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > that's how you want it to work.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:31 AM, Rob Westland <magicrob@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > **
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Heidi or someone else,
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > can you tell a bit about locking and mutli-user access?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > I know RIA always use deferred transactions. So updates are written
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > back to the database when the transaction is closed. So you have to
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > make an manual lock. This can be done with the Magic Lock() function,
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > but is this watertight?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Are there any other issues?
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Rob
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > Op 1-11-2012 9:19, Heidi Schuppenhauer schreef:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > It's a really interesting question. The two methodologies are very
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > different.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > *Online*
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > If you have an online program, people on that network can access it.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > If they have access to a Magic Runtime, or are using Terminal
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Services or Citrix. It's basically a "closed" system, meant for a
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > few specified
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > people.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > This is great for in-house staff. It's rather secure, and has loads
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > of great features. Data access is fast too.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > In combination with Citrix, it's awesome. In-house people can access
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > stuff
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > from anywhere. BUT ... each user has to have a Citrix license bought
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > and links installed.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Citrix is basically a screen-scraper. It sends the current screen to
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > the user, who can use it.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > *RIA*
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > RIA is the next great thing, and it basically does some of what
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > Citrix does, and more. Loads some of the data locally, so it can be
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > processed, while the server is still sending it. It works really
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > nicely, and does
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > not
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > require Citrix licenses. However, it does require another level of
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > programming and installation. It is more available to the outside
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > world though, which is nice if that is what you need.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > A RIA program is a bit different from an online program, and you
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > have to
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > be
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > aware of what is going on, to make it efficient. It can be very nice
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > though, giving you the flexibility of Online with the access of HTML.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > RIA is way more than a screen-scraper. It has it's own cache of data
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > and programs, all encrypted. So much of the processing can happen
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > locally, which makes the programs faster.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > *HTML Browser*
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > I'll just add that one. Magic does a GREAT job at handling a website.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > It's
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > not the usual Magic programming, and there is a learning curve, but
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > it works way better than, say, PHP. HTML is the interface users are
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > used to, and can be integrated into whatever website is currently
                            > being
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > used.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > HTML Merge works very well, but it's also very different from online
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > programming, and takes a bit of architecture. The advantage is that
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > it is similar to any website.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > *Installation*
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > As far as installation ... any "server" is a bit of an issue to get
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > installed. You have to know what you are doing, and when the new
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > technologies come online, we have to learn. I don't have a lot of
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > hints
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > on
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > that, except to hire an expert if one is handy. Most people get
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > through
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > it
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > though, on their own.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, spivey_wa <spivey_wa@...>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> **
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> Hi Guys,
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> I was wondering if someone could explain the differences between an
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> "Online" program and a "Rich Client" program.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> More importantly can someone explain how to decide when to use
                            > which.
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> Thanks
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >> Shaun
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >>
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > --
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Heidi Schuppenhauer
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > 425.397.8000
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Learn it!
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            > Heidi Schuppenhauer
                            >
                            > 425.397.8000
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Learn it!
                            >
                            > http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            --
                            Heidi Schuppenhauer
                            425.397.8000

                            Learn it!
                            http://w <http://groupspaces.com/uniPaaSUsers>ww.uniPaaSUsers.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Diego Balé (Lektros Soluciones)
                            Hi group I was wondering… If I have spare runtime licenses of magic 9.4 and someone needs that Can I sell them ?? Or it’s not legal to sell licenses you
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 5, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi group

                              I was wondering…

                              If I have spare runtime licenses of magic 9.4 and someone needs that

                              Can I sell them ??

                              Or it’s not legal to sell licenses you own…





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Steven Burrows
                              It might be possible depending on your local MSE, but I strongly doubt it. In UK, licenses are not transferable, only if there is a company buyout (or similar)
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 5, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                It might be possible depending on your local MSE, but I strongly doubt it.

                                In UK, licenses are not transferable, only if there is a company buyout (or similar) can you change ownership, even then MSE charge a fee for re-registration.





                                From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:magicu-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Diego Balé (Lektros Soluciones)
                                Sent: 05 November 2012 16:35
                                To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: 'Backup Interdata (E-mail)'
                                Subject: [magicu-l] License question





                                Hi group

                                I was wondering...

                                If I have spare runtime licenses of magic 9.4 and someone needs that

                                Can I sell them ??

                                Or it's not legal to sell licenses you own...

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Frank.Van.Herreweghe@telenet.be
                                I don t think it is depending on MSE, it depends of where you live :-) There has been an European court (2 or 3 months ago against Oracle) who decided that it
                                Message 15 of 17 , Nov 5, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I don't think it is depending on MSE, it depends of where you live :-)
                                  There has been an European court (2 or 3 months ago against Oracle) who decided that it was indeed possible to resell an Oracle license.



                                  Just google "Oracle license sell european court", top link.
                                  It's already from July... time flies.


                                  Best regards,
                                  Frank Van Herreweghe
                                  ----- Oorspronkelijk e-mail -----

                                  Van: "Steven Burrows" <steven.burrows@...>
                                  Aan: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  Verzonden: Maandag 5 november 2012 17:39:27
                                  Onderwerp: RE: [magicu-l] License question





                                  It might be possible depending on your local MSE, but I strongly doubt it.

                                  In UK, licenses are not transferable, only if there is a company buyout (or similar) can you change ownership, even then MSE charge a fee for re-registration.

                                  From: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Diego Balé (Lektros Soluciones)
                                  Sent: 05 November 2012 16:35
                                  To: magicu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  Cc: 'Backup Interdata (E-mail)'
                                  Subject: [magicu-l] License question

                                  Hi group

                                  I was wondering...

                                  If I have spare runtime licenses of magic 9.4 and someone needs that

                                  Can I sell them ??

                                  Or it's not legal to sell licenses you own...

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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