Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Profesor and maestro in textbooks

Expand Messages
  • Daniel Hanson
    Hello, everyone! Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1 ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I have about
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2012

      Hello, everyone!

       

                  Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1 ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from “maestro” to “profesor”, back to “maestro”, etc. Why don’t publishers just use “profesor” since:

       

      1.      Technically, “profesor” is the term that is supposed to be used at the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking world. (Even in Mexico, where “maestro” is quite common in colloquial speech, “profesor” is also used for high school teachers.)

      2.      “Profesor” is a more universal/standard term in most if not all Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary, or post-secondary. It doesn’t seem like “maestro” is used in most countries when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican thing that’s influencing American authors to use “maestro” here?

       

      I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if you’ve noticed it as something universal or standard.

       

       

      Thank you,

      Daniel Hanson

      Public High School Spanish Teacher

      Atwater, California, USA

       

      P.D. Today I was thinking about how it’s natural to say “profesor de idiomas”, but started to wonder about “profesor de español”. After talking to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that “profesor/maestro de español” is the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is not authentic usage.

    • sicinco
      Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 2, 2012
        Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language and not cute any longer.

        In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

        Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.

        Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect, of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.

        Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés, inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

        --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, everyone!
        >
        >
        >
        > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
        > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
        > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
        > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
        > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use "profesor"
        > since:
        >
        >
        >
        > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
        > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
        > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
        > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
        >
        > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
        > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
        > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most countries
        > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
        > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
        >
        >
        >
        > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
        > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
        > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Thank you,
        >
        > Daniel Hanson
        >
        > Public High School Spanish Teacher
        >
        > Atwater, California, USA
        >
        >
        >
        > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
        > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
        > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
        > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
        > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is
        > not authentic usage.
        >
      • marie blair
        Daniel, My point of reference is Mexico, and what I have experienced is that maestro is used in reference to teaching preschool to the end of elementary
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 2, 2012
          Daniel,

          My point of reference is Mexico, and what I have experienced is that maestro is used in reference to teaching preschool to the end of elementary school, and profesor is used starting with teaching middle school and above.

          Espero que esto le ayude a Ud.

          Marie


          From: Daniel Hanson <danhan22@...>
          To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, July 2, 2012 1:59 AM
          Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Profesor and maestro in textbooks



          Hello, everyone!
           
                      Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1 ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from “maestro” to “profesor”, back to “maestro”, etc. Why don’t publishers just use “profesor” since:
           
          1.      Technically, “profesor” is the term that is supposed to be used at the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking world. (Even in Mexico, where “maestro” is quite common in colloquial speech, “profesor” is also used for high school teachers.)
          2.      “Profesor” is a more universal/standard term in most if not all Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary, or post-secondary. It doesn’t seem like “maestro” is used in most countries when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican thing that’s influencing American authors to use “maestro” here?
           
          I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if you’ve noticed it as something universal or standard.
           
           
          Thank you,
          Daniel Hanson
          Public High School Spanish Teacher
          Atwater, California, USA
           
          P.D. Today I was thinking about how it’s natural to say “profesor de idiomas”, but started to wonder about “profesor de español”. After talking to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that “profesor/maestro de español” is the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is not authentic usage.




        • daisy2lyd@yahoo.com
          Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain regions? I am a
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 2, 2012
            Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue
            Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile

            From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>
            Sender: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000
            To: <maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com>
            ReplyTo: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

             

            Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language and not cute any longer.

            In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

            Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.

            Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect, of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.

            Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés, inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

            --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello, everyone!
            >
            >
            >
            > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
            > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
            > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
            > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
            > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use "profesor"
            > since:
            >
            >
            >
            > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
            > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
            > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
            > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
            >
            > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
            > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
            > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most countries
            > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
            > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
            >
            >
            >
            > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
            > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
            > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Thank you,
            >
            > Daniel Hanson
            >
            > Public High School Spanish Teacher
            >
            > Atwater, California, USA
            >
            >
            >
            > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
            > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
            > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
            > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
            > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is
            > not authentic usage.
            >

          • Charlotte Meyer
            ... literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware! So, in other words, you are saying that someone misnamed this group. :-)
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 2, 2012
              > In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.
              literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

              So, in other words, you are saying that someone misnamed this group. :-)

              Charlotte Meyer
              Spanish Teacher
              Preston Schools
            • sicinco
              I did not mean to be critical of the group, but you are right - unless everyone only teaches through about 5th or 6th grade, the term maestros is not accurate.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012
                I did not mean to be critical of the group, but you are right - unless everyone only teaches through about 5th or 6th grade, the term maestros is not accurate. At least not in the Spanish of many areas.

                --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Meyer <meyer.charlotte38@...> wrote:
                >
                > > In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.
                > literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!
                >
                > So, in other words, you are saying that someone misnamed this group. :-)
                >
                > Charlotte Meyer
                > Spanish Teacher
                > Preston Schools
                >
              • marie blair
                Daisy, I totally agree with you! I have learned soooo very much from Daniel and Sicinco, so much more than in any teaching methodology text out there!  I look
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012
                  Daisy,

                  I totally agree with you! I have learned soooo very much from Daniel and Sicinco, so much more than in any teaching methodology text out there!  I look forward to their posts, and I thank them for sharing their immense knowledge and expertise of our subject!

                  Respectfully,
                  Marie


                  From: "daisy2lyd@..." <daisy2lyd@...>
                  To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 2, 2012 12:07 PM
                  Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks



                  Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue
                  Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile

                  From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>
                  Sender: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000
                  To: <maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                   
                  Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language and not cute any longer.

                  In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

                  Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.

                  Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect, of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.

                  Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés, inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

                  --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello, everyone!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
                  > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
                  > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
                  > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
                  > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use "profesor"
                  > since:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
                  > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
                  > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
                  > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
                  >
                  > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
                  > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
                  > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most countries
                  > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
                  > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
                  > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
                  > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you,
                  >
                  > Daniel Hanson
                  >
                  > Public High School Spanish Teacher
                  >
                  > Atwater, California, USA
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
                  > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
                  > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
                  > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
                  > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is
                  > not authentic usage.
                  >





                • Daniel Hanson
                  Kathleen (aka Sinico) has more travel time than me I think and more exposure. For me, it’s been my interaction with natives over the years (I ask and read in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012

                    Kathleen (aka Sinico) has more travel time than me I think and more exposure. For me, it’s been my interaction with natives over the years (I ask and read in three different Yahoo! Spanish language forums). Also, living in a Spanish-speaking country for over a year was a great experience for a Spanish grammar nerd like myself. J I think living abroad gives the language learner a very good foundation for what is really used/spoken and the basic nuances of the language. One starts to get a better feel for the language. I think having an inquisitive mind helps, too.

                     

                    From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daisy2lyd@...
                    Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:07 AM
                    To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                     

                     

                    Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue

                    Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile


                    From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>

                    Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000

                    Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                     

                     

                    Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language and not cute any longer.

                    In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

                    Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.

                    Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect, of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.

                    Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés, inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

                    --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello, everyone!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
                    > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
                    > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
                    > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
                    > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use "profesor"
                    > since:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
                    > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
                    > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
                    > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
                    >
                    > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
                    > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
                    > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most countries
                    > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
                    > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
                    > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
                    > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you,
                    >
                    > Daniel Hanson
                    >
                    > Public High School Spanish Teacher
                    >
                    > Atwater, California, USA
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
                    > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
                    > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
                    > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
                    > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is
                    > not authentic usage.
                    >

                  • daisy2lyd@yahoo.com
                    Well your students are lucky to have you. You re amazing! I learn so much from this forum. What are the other yahoo forums do find helpful? Thank you ;) lydia
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012
                      Well your students are lucky to have you. You're amazing! I learn so much from this forum. What are the other yahoo forums do find helpful? Thank you ;) lydia
                      Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile

                      From: "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...>
                      Sender: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 07:57:26 -0700
                      To: <maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com>
                      ReplyTo: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                       

                      Kathleen (aka Sinico) has more travel time than me I think and more exposure. For me, it’s been my interaction with natives over the years (I ask and read in three different Yahoo! Spanish language forums). Also, living in a Spanish-speaking country for over a year was a great experience for a Spanish grammar nerd like myself. J I think living abroad gives the language learner a very good foundation for what is really used/spoken and the basic nuances of the language. One starts to get a better feel for the language. I think having an inquisitive mind helps, too.

                       

                      From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daisy2lyd@...
                      Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:07 AM
                      To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                       

                       

                      Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue

                      Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile


                      From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>

                      Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000

                      Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                       

                       

                      Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language and not cute any longer.

                      In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

                      Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.

                      Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect, of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.

                      Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés, inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

                      --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello, everyone!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
                      > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
                      > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
                      > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
                      > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use "profesor"
                      > since:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
                      > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
                      > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
                      > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
                      >
                      > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
                      > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
                      > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most countries
                      > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
                      > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
                      > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
                      > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      >
                      > Daniel Hanson
                      >
                      > Public High School Spanish Teacher
                      >
                      > Atwater, California, USA
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
                      > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
                      > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
                      > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
                      > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is
                      > not authentic usage.
                      >

                    • sicinco
                      Just for the record: My yahoo id is Sicinco (as in yes, 5) and has meaning for me. No cinismo on my part!! My experience comes from travel, but also from my
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012
                        Just for the record: My yahoo id is Sicinco (as in yes, 5) and has meaning for me. No "cinismo" on my part!!

                        My experience comes from travel, but also from my courses, including graduate courses in Spanish, linguistics, etc. I studied with people from all different Spanish-speaking countries and went to lots of parties with many... and really learned a lot of Spanish in Buffalo, NY. Then, too, I read and write literary criticism, so vocabulary and usage expand enormously,including for countries one never has visited.

                        Finally, I have been married to a native speaker since 1979, so have had a good place to check, always. He too is in literature and I trust him as a resource.

                        I truly cannot say enough for reading adult materials (any genre) in the language. textbooks just aren't much use for expanding one's horizons.

                        I also use the internet constantly as a resource and work to increase my knowledge of style, lexicon, and information in general, whether Spain or Central America or elsewhere. Just lots of years in the trenches...
                        --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Kathleen (aka Sinico) has more travel time than me I think and more
                        > exposure. For me, it's been my interaction with natives over the years (I
                        > ask and read in three different Yahoo! Spanish language forums). Also,
                        > living in a Spanish-speaking country for over a year was a great experience
                        > for a Spanish grammar nerd like myself. J I think living abroad gives the
                        > language learner a very good foundation for what is really used/spoken and
                        > the basic nuances of the language. One starts to get a better feel for the
                        > language. I think having an inquisitive mind helps, too.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daisy2lyd@...
                        > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:07 AM
                        > To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel
                        > where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain
                        > regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue
                        >
                        > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>
                        >
                        > Sender: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000
                        >
                        > To: <maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com>
                        >
                        > ReplyTo: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily
                        > influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons
                        > who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets
                        > wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language
                        > and not cute any longer.
                        >
                        > In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it
                        > would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and
                        > often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the
                        > preparation needed to be a profesor/a.
                        >
                        > Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as
                        > such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit
                        > high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.
                        >
                        > Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign
                        > communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly
                        > common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect,
                        > of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as
                        > you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish
                        > term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.
                        >
                        > Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply
                        > "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If
                        > s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés,
                        > inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic
                        > version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the
                        > English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!
                        >
                        > --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:maestrosdeespanol%40yahoogroups.com> , "Daniel Hanson"
                        > <danhan22@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello, everyone!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
                        > > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
                        > > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
                        > > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
                        > > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use
                        > "profesor"
                        > > since:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
                        > > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
                        > > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
                        > > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
                        > >
                        > > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
                        > > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
                        > > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most
                        > countries
                        > > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
                        > > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
                        > > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
                        > > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Thank you,
                        > >
                        > > Daniel Hanson
                        > >
                        > > Public High School Spanish Teacher
                        > >
                        > > Atwater, California, USA
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
                        > > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
                        > > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
                        > > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
                        > > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this
                        > is
                        > > not authentic usage.
                        > >
                        >
                      • Pepi Rosado
                        Esta respuesta no es mia sino que la he tomado prestada y viene perfecta al caso. Viene de España y es la misma definición que cuando yo estudiaba. Pues,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012
                          Esta respuesta no es mia sino que la he tomado prestada y viene perfecta al caso. Viene de España y es la misma definición que cuando yo estudiaba.
                           
                          "Pues, sí, sí que hay diferencia, y muy importante. El maestro es un Diplomado que tras haber terminado su bachiller y superado la prueba de Selectividad realiza unos estudios superiores de tres años, orientados a la pedagogía y a la enseñanza de lo que es la educación primaria (aquí en España hasta 2º ESO" ( de párvulos a sexto y luego los dos primeros cursos de ESO, o sea 5-14 años).

                          "El profesor es un Licenciado que tras haber terminado igualmente el Bachiller y superado de la misma forma la prueba de selectividad realiza unos estudios superiores de cinco años con mayor nivel de especialización y en una materia determinada (Licenciado en Matemáticas, en Física, en Química, en Biología, en Filología, Historia,etc). Pero ahí no acaba todo, si quiere ejercer como profesor, tras los cinco años de Licenciatura, tiene que estudiar un año más para obtener el título de Aptitud Pedagógica. 

                          "Frente al maestro, el profesor imparte toda la etapa de la ESO y el Bachiller" (4 cursod de ESO 13-16 años y los 2 últimos años de Bachillerato 17-18) "y además tiene también la opción mediante la realización de un Doctorado, y la elaboración de una tesis doctoral de ejercer la docencia en la Universidad. Esta es la gran diferencia.
                          Pese a que actualmente, por ignorancia tal vez de este tipo de cosas, la figura del profesor está poco prestigiada, su nivel de titulación es la misma que la de un médico, un ingeniero o un arquitecto de grado superior, o un abogado."

                          Espero que este correo haya despejado un poco las dudas en cuanto a la diferencia en España.
                           
                          Pepi
                           
                          In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

                          On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Daniel Hanson <danhan22@...> wrote:
                           

                          Kathleen (aka Sinico) has more travel time than me I think and more exposure. For me, it’s been my interaction with natives over the years (I ask and read in three different Yahoo! Spanish language forums). Also, living in a Spanish-speaking country for over a year was a great experience for a Spanish grammar nerd like myself. J I think living abroad gives the language learner a very good foundation for what is really used/spoken and the basic nuances of the language. One starts to get a better feel for the language. I think having an inquisitive mind helps, too.

                           

                          From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daisy2lyd@...
                          Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:07 AM
                          To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                           

                           

                          Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue

                          Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile


                          From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>

                          Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000

                          Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                           

                           

                          Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language and not cute any longer.

                          In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the preparation needed to be a profesor/a.

                          Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.

                          Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect, of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.

                          Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés, inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!

                          --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello, everyone!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
                          > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
                          > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
                          > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
                          > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use "profesor"
                          > since:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
                          > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
                          > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
                          > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
                          >
                          > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
                          > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
                          > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most countries
                          > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
                          > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
                          > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
                          > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thank you,
                          >
                          > Daniel Hanson
                          >
                          > Public High School Spanish Teacher
                          >
                          > Atwater, California, USA
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
                          > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
                          > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
                          > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
                          > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this is
                          > not authentic usage.
                          >


                        • Daniel Hanson
                          My apologies, Kathleen. I really did not mean to misspell your Yahoo! ID. Saludos apenados, Daniel Hanson From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 3, 2012

                            My apologies, Kathleen. I really did not mean to misspell your Yahoo! ID.

                             

                             

                            Saludos apenados,

                            Daniel Hanson

                             

                            From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sicinco
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:48 PM
                            To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                             

                             


                            Just for the record: My yahoo id is Sicinco (as in yes, 5) and has meaning for me. No "cinismo" on my part!!

                            My experience comes from travel, but also from my courses, including graduate courses in Spanish, linguistics, etc. I studied with people from all different Spanish-speaking countries and went to lots of parties with many... and really learned a lot of Spanish in Buffalo, NY. Then, too, I read and write literary criticism, so vocabulary and usage expand enormously,including for countries one never has visited.

                            Finally, I have been married to a native speaker since 1979, so have had a good place to check, always. He too is in literature and I trust him as a resource.

                            I truly cannot say enough for reading adult materials (any genre) in the language. textbooks just aren't much use for expanding one's horizons.

                            I also use the internet constantly as a resource and work to increase my knowledge of style, lexicon, and information in general, whether Spain or Central America or elsewhere. Just lots of years in the trenches...

                            --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hanson" <danhan22@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Kathleen (aka Sinico) has more travel time than me I think and more
                            > exposure. For me, it's been my interaction with natives over the years (I
                            > ask and read in three different Yahoo! Spanish language forums). Also,
                            > living in a Spanish-speaking country for over a year was a great experience
                            > for a Spanish grammar nerd like myself. J I think living abroad gives the
                            > language learner a very good foundation for what is really used/spoken and
                            > the basic nuances of the language. One starts to get a better feel for the
                            > language. I think having an inquisitive mind helps, too.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daisy2lyd@...
                            > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:07 AM
                            > To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Wow thank you for this insight. I have a question for Sinico and Daniel
                            > where do you find such knowledge about what is proper or not in certain
                            > regions? I am a newer teacher and I had no clue
                            >
                            > Sent from my BlackBerry® by Boost Mobile
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: "sicinco" <kathleen.march@...>
                            >
                            > Sender: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 07:52:49 -0000
                            >
                            > To: <maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com>
                            >
                            > ReplyTo: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Subject: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Watch out for US textbooks! They may have been authored by persons heavily
                            > influenced by English after living in the US for a long time. Or by persons
                            > who are simply not standard Spanish speakers. As years go by, one gets
                            > wearier and wearier of Spanglish. To me, it's a colonization of the language
                            > and not cute any longer.
                            >
                            > In Spain and other countries, a maestro/a is up through grade school, so it
                            > would be through fifth or sixth grade. It also indicates less training, and
                            > often not a complete college degree. It is quite different from the
                            > preparation needed to be a profesor/a.
                            >
                            > Maestro in textbooks is most likely just a translation of "teacher" and as
                            > such is inaccurate for high school and beyond. English "teacher" does fit
                            > high school, but the Spanish "maestro" simply does not.
                            >
                            > Also, I will not let students call me "señora" nor do I ever sign
                            > communications to them that way. It is never used in college and not exactly
                            > common in Spanish, either. Again, it is the overlay, culturally incorrect,
                            > of English. Titles are used, and "profesora/a" is the correct one, just as
                            > you use them for other professions. Just because a student uses the Spanish
                            > term "señor/a" does not make it acceptable.
                            >
                            > Note that in a Spanish-speaking country, the person might be simply
                            > "profesor/a de lengua" since the language will be Spanish automatically. If
                            > s/he is teacher of French English, etc., then it would be "... de francés,
                            > inglés" etc. Asking for translations may or may not get you an idiomatic
                            > version, especially if the source is just doing a literal translation of the
                            > English term. Over and over I see this, so beware!
                            >
                            > --- In maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:maestrosdeespanol%40yahoogroups.com> , "Daniel Hanson"
                            > <danhan22@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello, everyone!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Today I was looking over the first pages of the level 1
                            > > ¡Avancemos! I got recently and I was reminded of a pet peeve / concern I
                            > > have about American made Spanish high school textbooks. In our old ¡En
                            > > Español! series, the publishers constantly switch from "maestro" to
                            > > "profesor", back to "maestro", etc. Why don't publishers just use
                            > "profesor"
                            > > since:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > 1. Technically, "profesor" is the term that is supposed to be used at
                            > > the secondary and post-secondary levels in all of the Spanish-speaking
                            > > world. (Even in Mexico, where "maestro" is quite common in colloquial
                            > > speech, "profesor" is also used for high school teachers.)
                            > >
                            > > 2. "Profesor" is a more universal/standard term in most if not all
                            > > Spanish-speaking countries for any teacher, whether elementary, secondary,
                            > > or post-secondary. It doesn't seem like "maestro" is used in most
                            > countries
                            > > when referring to the classroom teacher. Does it seem more of a Mexican
                            > > thing that's influencing American authors to use "maestro" here?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I would appreciate any insights you can give as to authentic usage. When
                            > > referencing usages you have experienced, please indicate what region or if
                            > > you've noticed it as something universal or standard.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Thank you,
                            > >
                            > > Daniel Hanson
                            > >
                            > > Public High School Spanish Teacher
                            > >
                            > > Atwater, California, USA
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > P.D. Today I was thinking about how it's natural to say "profesor de
                            > > idiomas", but started to wonder about "profesor de español". After talking
                            > > to two Mexicans, I got confirmation that "profesor/maestro de español" is
                            > > the correct and authentic way for saying Spanish teacher, even when one is
                            > > teaching Spanish as a second/foreign language. Please correct me if this
                            > is
                            > > not authentic usage.
                            > >
                            >

                          • Charlotte Meyer
                            So would the students call me Profesora Meyer or what? How am I supposed to sign my name? Charlotte Meyer Spanish Teacher Preston Schools
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 4, 2012
                              So would the students call me Profesora Meyer or what? How am I
                              supposed to sign my name?

                              Charlotte Meyer
                              Spanish Teacher
                              Preston Schools
                            • Daniel Hanson
                              Your high school students would address you as “profesora”, “profe”, or “profesora Meyer”. Your elementary kids would address you as
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 4, 2012

                                Your high school students would address you as “profesora”, “profe”, or “profesora Meyer”. Your elementary kids would address you as “profesora”, “profe”, or “profesora Charlotte”. As for how to sign letters, it would be “Prof.ª Charlotte Meyer” instead of “Sr.ª Charlotte Meyer”.

                                 

                                If I have erred, I hope people correct me.

                                 

                                From: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Meyer
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 12:05 PM
                                To: maestrosdeespanol@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [MaestrosdeEspanol] Re: Profesor and maestro in textbooks

                                 

                                 

                                So would the students call me Profesora Meyer or what? How am I
                                supposed to sign my name?

                                Charlotte Meyer
                                Spanish Teacher
                                Preston Schools

                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.