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Fw: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues

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  • Shawncd
    I m with you Peter. I think your option number two would be the way to go also. First thing in the morning I m going to see about getting the schematic
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm with you Peter. I think your option number two would be the way to go also.
      First thing in the morning I'm going to see about getting the schematic documentation. The service tech that came up with the pendant pdf. manual, supplied with Yaskawa P CNC system. Mentioned something about contacting the manufacturer (Nemicon) to get documentation if nothing was available on his end. Maybe I can convenience him to do this for us, and possibly get some better notes/schematics.

      I will keep everyone posted..
      Shawn


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Peter Homann
      To: Jeff Goldberg
      Cc: Shawncd@Prodigy. Net
      Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:39 PM
      Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues


      Hi Guys,

      The manual is very interesting. Sheds a bit of light on things. The ideal solution would be to reprogram the H8 micro processor and the FPGA. Without schematic diagrams it is almost impossible, or at the very least very time consuming without guaranteed success.

      The other options are to;
      1 replace the CPU board in the pendent with a off-the-shelf keyboard encoder.
      2. replace the CPU board in the pendent with a new CPU board.

      I'm favouring option 2 at the moment, mainly because I want to use as much of the pendents functionality as possible. From my initial investigations, there are;

      43 buttons
      5 bit feed override switch
      5 bit Spindle override switch
      5 bit MPG axis select switch
      2, possibly 4 line for the MPG

      That's 60 inputs. I'm not sure that the switches are in a matrix yet or not. there are a lot of diodes around the switch connectors on the CPU board. It is also legal for some switches to be pressed simultaneously.

      Also, there are 38 LEDs and the LCD.

      I'm expecting that the new CPU board will have 2 interfaces to the PC, a keyboard emulator I/F and a rs232 serial interface.

      For keyboard interface is obvious, and does exactly that. The serial interface will have a command set for controlling the LEDs and the LCD. It would also have the ability to manage the keystrokes, in case Art allows control over the serial port, which I reckon will eventually happen.

      To integrate the key presses and LEDs will require a new screen design set. There may even be a page that mimics the pendent?

      Take the mach2 reset function. If the CNC reset button on the pendent is pressed, a key press is generated (esc). This goes to a button in Mach2 that we have created "RESET". For this button we check if the Mach2 state is in reset, if not we send a command out the serial port say "L0340206 LF23", then call the reset command in Mach2.

      What this would do is turn off LEDs 34, 2 and 6 and Flash LED 23. Well you det the idea.

      If the pendent Memory button was pressed, this would cause the Mach2 screen to be displayed and the LEDs for the other 4 cnc modes to turn off and the Memory button LED to turn on.

      The LCD would also have a command set, maybe similar to the commercial serial LCD units. That way information could be positioned and displayed on the LCD.

      For example if the pendent F1 key is pressed a key code would be sent to a Mach2 button that would have a macro that would read the set and current spindles and display them on the LCD.

      So, at the very least, the new CPU board will just be a keyboard encoder that neatly plugs into the pendent. It also has the ability to control the LEDs and LCD, although in a clumsy fashion. It also has the ability in the future to do away with the PS/2 Keyboard I/F and do all of the control via the serial port, once Mach2 has that capability.

      If we had the unit built and working, I'm sure that Art would come to the party and add functionality into Mach2.

      Also, as the supply of these units are extremely limited (I want another one), The controller board or it's design could be repackaged into another enclosure using it as a standard for a Mach2 pendent. Once enough people are interested a suitable Mylar transfer could be designed, making it quite a respectable pendent.

      Now that I've got my self excited, I don't know where to find the time in the immediate future, although I am committed to it.


      By the way, I live in Melbourne.

      Cheers,


      Peter Homann
      mailto:Peter.Homann@...
      Adacel Technologies Limited,
      250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA
      http://www.adacel.com
      Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960
      Mobile 0421-601 665
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jeff Goldberg [mailto:Jeff@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:52 AM
      To: 'Peter Homann'
      Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues


      Peter:

      Been to Oz twice. Love the place. Australians are like Americans except they drink more and have a better sense of humor.
      I've been to Sidney, Hobart, Melbourne, McCoy, Cairns and some other places. Where are you?
      Have you had a chance to peek at the documents that Shawn sent? It would be nice to use this gadget as it came rather than hack it apart.
      Otherwise, I think we're stuck with a keyboard emulator hidden inside instead of the CPU card, but without a million outputs from MACH2 or a latch for each switch, the LED's will probably be a thing of the past. I got the specs on the chips and they look programmable, but I'm clueless how to go about doing it.

      Cheers,
      Jeff


      Jeffrey Goldberg, President

      Washington Computer Services
      140 58th Street - Suite 8F
      Brooklyn, N.Y. 11220

      Tel: (718) 491-6100
      Fax: (718) 765-1973
      email: jeff@...

      If you can describe what you want your network to do,
      We can design it, install it, and get it working
      Always with an eye to exceeding your expectations





      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      From: Peter Homann [mailto:peter.homann@...]
      Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:45 PM
      To: jeff@...; shawncd@...
      Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues


      Actually, it's about Midday here in the land of Oz.

      Cheers,


      Peter Homann
      mailto:Peter.Homann@...
      Adacel Technologies Limited,
      250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA
      http://www.adacel.com
      Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960
      Mobile 0421-601 665
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jeff Goldberg [mailto:Jeff@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 12:39 PM
      To: shawncd@...
      Cc: peter.homann@...
      Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues


      Thanks Shawn. My copy is in my office. I think Peter's just about waking up now. Maybe we can "follow the sun" on this one.



      Regards to all

      Jeff




      --------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: Shawncd [mailto:shawncd@...]
      Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:24 PM
      To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues




      Give me your email and I will send you the manual in pdf.
      It took alot of work to hunt this down and get it from Yaskawa.
      Shawn


      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Peter Homann" <peter.homann@...>
      > To: <mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 5:16 PM
      > Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy
      Issues.
      > + Pendent Issues
      >
      >
      > > Hi Jeff,
      > >
      > > You seem to know more about the interface than I. I just had a quick
      look
      > > and assumed that it all went through the RS-232.
      > >
      > > Do you know how I can get hold of the manual? It may be possible to use
      > the
      > > existing I/F by using a micro processor as a converter or some what.
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > >
      > >
      > > Peter Homann
      > > mailto:Peter.Homann@...
      > > Adacel Technologies Limited,
      > > 250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA
      > > http://www.adacel.com <http://www.adacel.com>
      > > Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960
      > > Mobile 0421-601 665
      > >
      > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: washcomp [mailto:jeff@...]
      > > > Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 12:09 PM
      > > > To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy
      Issues.
      > > > + Pendent Issues
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Peter:
      > > >
      > > > I too have one of these pendants. My impression (please correct me
      > > > if I'm wrong) is that the RS-232 is for the LCD display. The rest
      > > > of the functions (with the excption of the E-Stop) seem to
      > > > communicate to the controller (originally Yaksawa) through a
      > > > protocol named YE-NET (DeviceNet maybe?). This seems to use a bus
      > > > based network over one pair of wires where the devices along the bus
      > > > are indevidually addressable. The data is then sent serialy.
      > > >
      > > > The controller (MACH2)would have to interpet which key was pressed
      > > > and the communications protocol would have to be converted to RS-232
      > > > usable signals/hardware.
      > > >
      > > > I've considered using a keyboard emulator, but as you point out,
      > > > there's no easy way to light the LED's.
      > > >
      > > > Unfortunately I don't know enough about how to read or program the
      > > > original microprocessor and flash ram that is in the pendant.
      > > >
      > > > One of the other purchasers has come up with an English manual from
      > > > Yaskawa for the pendant which might help if someone wants to take a
      > > > whack at it.
      > > >
      > > > Jeff
      > > >
      > > > --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Homann"
      > > > <peter.homann@a...> wrote:
      > > > > Art,
      > > > >
      > > > > All the changes sounds excellent to me.
      > > > >
      > > > > I have a question regarding the exporting the state of the system.
      > > > Let me
      > > > > explain.
      > > > >
      > > > > I have one of the Pendents sold by Richard Piatek. These are very
      > > > nice and
      > > > > professional commercial unit. There is a one to one mapping for a
      > > > lot of the
      > > > > buttons on the pendent to the mach2 functionality. You must be
      > > > doing things
      > > > > right). all of these buttons have a LED indicator.
      > > > >
      > > > > The pendent also has a 16x2 LCD character display, a 100 step/rev
      > > > MPG and an
      > > > > ESTOP button. Pictures of it are in the files area.
      > > > >
      > > > > The pendent is controlled by a large FPGA and a H8 Micro
      > > > controller and
      > > > > communicates back to the original controller via RS-232. These are
      > > > all on a
      > > > > separate PCB.
      > > > >
      > > > > My plan is to replace the PCB with one of my own. It seems a shame
      > > > to just
      > > > > connect the switches to a keyboard encoder as some plan to do. We
      > > > could do
      > > > > something really special. The reason for replacing the board is
      > > > that I
      > > > > believe that it will be too difficult to reverse engineer the
      > > > existing
      > > > > controller board.
      > > > >
      > > > > Although the pendent is packaged beautifully, there is nothing
      > > > stopping use
      > > > > from putting all the same functionality into an "off the shelf"
      > > > enclosure.
      > > > > After all it just contains a lot of switches, LEDs, a 2x16
      > > > character lcd
      > > > > display, estop switch, and a controller board.
      > > > >
      > > > > One of the issues with just using a keyboard encoder is that the
      > > > LEDs can
      > > > > show state. For example, there are 3 buttons labelled X1,X10,X100.
      > > > These are
      > > > > the jog increments for the MPG. If X10 is pressed, then I assume
      > > > that the
      > > > > LED for that button will stay illuminated to indicate the current
      > > > jog
      > > > > increment. Also I'd expect the spindle Forward button's LED to
      > > > flash when
      > > > > the spindle is ON.
      > > > >
      > > > > Initially I considered keeping the state of the system in the
      > > > pendant's
      > > > > micro controller. One of the first rules of software engineering
      > > > is "If you
      > > > > store the state of a variable in two places, one of then will be
      > > > wrong"
      > > > >
      > > > > So, what am I after? A method of interacting/controlling Mach2 via
      > > > a serial
      > > > > Port.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I don't know enough about the macro facility of Mach2 to know if a
      > > > lot is
      > > > > already there.
      > > > >
      > > > > Does each function in Mach2 have an OEM code?
      > > > >
      > > > > Does a keyboard shortcut invoke an OEM code?
      > > > >
      > > > > Is each function invoked by an OEM code written as a macro and
      > > > able to be
      > > > > changed?
      > > > >
      > > > > Can all of the variables that hold state, Spindle speed, MPG jog
      > > > increment,
      > > > > MPG selected axis, etc be read and written to via macros?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On possible method for what I want to do may be to invoke the OEM
      > > > functions
      > > > > via the serial port. That would mean that Mach2 would have to
      > > > monitor the
      > > > > port and process a command set. This command set could be very
      > > > similar to
      > > > > the existing OEM codes?
      > > > >
      > > > > Also, it would be necessary to output the value of any states
      > > > changes
      > > > > invoked out through the serial port.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > For example, the spindle on/off control.- The user pushes the
      > > > Spindle
      > > > > Forward button on the pendent. This sends an message (110 "M3")
      > > > via the
      > > > > serial port to Mach2. The function that this calls sends a message
      > > > > containing the state of the Spindle LED out of the serial port.
      > > > The pendent
      > > > > micro controller would process this message and update the
      > > > associated LED on
      > > > > the pendent. Also pressing the spindle button on the screen or
      > > > pressing the
      > > > > shortcut would also send out the Spindle LED state, as this is
      > > > coded in the
      > > > > function.
      > > > >
      > > > > The use of the serial port for pendent control would be
      > > > configurable.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another example. The MPG encoder.- On the pendent the user would
      > > > select, via
      > > > > the rotary switch the axis, say the Y axis. This would send a
      > > > message to
      > > > > Mach2 which would update the screen and send back the selected
      > > > axis. The
      > > > > user then selects the X10 button. This sends a message to mach2
      > > > which sets
      > > > > the jog increment. Mach 2 responds with a message containing this
      > > > variable.
      > > > > The pendent illuminates the LED. As the user rotates the MPG a
      > > > stream of
      > > > > messages indicating +/- movement is sent to Mach2.
      > > > >
      > > > > How much of what I'm asking is already there? I know that reading
      > > > the serial
      > > > > port is not. How far away is that.
      > > > >
      > > > > Another possibility may be. Is there a range of "User OEM Codes"?
      > > > With these
      > > > > I could write macro functions that do what I defined above. With
      > > > this I
      > > > > could implement a PS2 keyboard encoder still sending the state out
      > > > of the
      > > > > serial port, but would still want the normal keyboard as well.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Am I asking too much? I'm not sure. I'm guessing that eventually
      > > > Mach2 will
      > > > > be able to be used with a sophisticated pendent at some time.
      > > > >
      > > > > I am happy to work on a pendent controller that will look after
      > > > the pendent
      > > > > pushbuttons, LEDs, LCD, rotary switches and MPG. A defined
      > > > interface method
      > > > > between Mach2 and the pendent controller would need to be
      > > > identified. Once
      > > > > the controller is complete, people could package it as necessary
      > > > for their
      > > > > application.
      > > > >
      > > > > Sorry it's so long
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks,
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Peter Homann
      > > > > mailto:Peter.Homann@a...
      > > > > Adacel Technologies Limited,
      > > > > 250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA
      > > > > http://www.adacel.com <http://www.adacel.com>
      > > > > Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960
      > > > > Mobile 0421-601 665
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > > From: Art [mailto:fenerty@a...]
      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 10:01 AM
      > > > > > To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Next Development Version and Legacy
      > > > Issues..
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi All:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Just so everyone is on the same page, next version release
      > > > will be a new
      > > > > > development version. (5.0) and it WILL have some legacy issues
      > > > > > unfortunately. For example, ..m1s and .t1s extensions are all
      > > > > > replaced just
      > > > > > with the .m1s . Macro's reside in separate directories with the
      > > > > > name of the
      > > > > > profile in use. So, for example, if your profile is Mach2Mill ,
      > > > the the
      > > > > > folder will be ./Macros/Mach2Mill/*.m1s
      > > > > > Also included is a toolfile tools.dat (Lathe or mill both use
      > > > > > tools.dat)
      > > > > > and it too resides in the profiles directory as above. No tools
      > > > file is
      > > > > > distributed, as before, but a new file is created if none is
      > > > found in the
      > > > > > new directory structure.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I really didn't want to go the route of legacy issues, but its
      > > > time for
      > > > > > some radical changes to Mach2 so some things just had to change
      > > > in the
      > > > > > development version. I have kept a spare build of the current
      > > > lockdown for
      > > > > > bug fixes and repairs , but the development version will
      > > > encompass future
      > > > > > feature upgrades and such. This is all in preperation for what I
      > > > was
      > > > > > refering to as conversational screens, but I think the way its
      > > > looking,
      > > > > > "Functional CNC" will be my prefered name. Basically it will
      > > > > > entail pressing
      > > > > > a button for a function "Like pocketing, flange drilling,
      > > > chocolate cake
      > > > > > making..or whatever" and having the user designable screen
      > > > become the only
      > > > > > screen for that functional run. All these "plug-ins" will have
      > > > their own
      > > > > > directories and Mach2 will index them and present selections for
      > > > > > them at run
      > > > > > time. These changes will probably necessitate other legacy
      > > > changes , but
      > > > > > I'll try to keep them to a minimum.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks,
      > > > > > Art
      > > > > > www.artofcnc.ca
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >





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    • Bloy
      Hi Shawn,(if you are still around), and Peter, I m digging in the past quite a bit here, maybe too far back. It s a long shot. I m wondering if a schematic for
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 10, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Shawn,(if you are still around), and Peter,

        I'm digging in the past quite a bit here, maybe too far back.
        It's a long shot.
        I'm wondering if a schematic for the Yaskawa pendant was ever obtained. Or if not, some information on what the leds are pinned to.

        I've been able to find the jog increment code numbers and set properly the selction sequence using the pendant's buttons. I have returned the Mach3's jog positions in the general configuration to normal order.

        Now the LEDs associated with those buttons are reversed,..i.e. pressing "handle X1" button lights "handle X100" button. The middle button ("handle X10") remains the same.

        SOooo, more digging to find how to change(remap?) them.

        I'm looking for a list that gives me a clue what the LED (user or OEM) codes are relating to the Yaskawa leds.

        Heh! Am I making any sense?

        Thanks,

        John (Bloy)


        --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "Shawncd" <shawncd@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm with you Peter. I think your option number two would be the way to go also.
        > First thing in the morning I'm going to see about getting the schematic documentation. The service tech that came up with the pendant pdf. manual, supplied with Yaskawa P CNC system. Mentioned something about contacting the manufacturer (Nemicon) to get documentation if nothing was available on his end. Maybe I can convenience him to do this for us, and possibly get some better notes/schematics.
        >
        > I will keep everyone posted..
        > Shawn
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Peter Homann
        > To: Jeff Goldberg
        > Cc: Shawncd@Prodigy. Net
        > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 5:39 PM
        > Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues
        >
        >
        > Hi Guys,
        >
        > The manual is very interesting. Sheds a bit of light on things. The ideal solution would be to reprogram the H8 micro processor and the FPGA. Without schematic diagrams it is almost impossible, or at the very least very time consuming without guaranteed success.
        >
        > The other options are to;
        > 1 replace the CPU board in the pendent with a off-the-shelf keyboard encoder.
        > 2. replace the CPU board in the pendent with a new CPU board.
        >
        > I'm favouring option 2 at the moment, mainly because I want to use as much of the pendents functionality as possible. From my initial investigations, there are;
        >
        > 43 buttons
        > 5 bit feed override switch
        > 5 bit Spindle override switch
        > 5 bit MPG axis select switch
        > 2, possibly 4 line for the MPG
        >
        > That's 60 inputs. I'm not sure that the switches are in a matrix yet or not. there are a lot of diodes around the switch connectors on the CPU board. It is also legal for some switches to be pressed simultaneously.
        >
        > Also, there are 38 LEDs and the LCD.
        >
        > I'm expecting that the new CPU board will have 2 interfaces to the PC, a keyboard emulator I/F and a rs232 serial interface.
        >
        > For keyboard interface is obvious, and does exactly that. The serial interface will have a command set for controlling the LEDs and the LCD. It would also have the ability to manage the keystrokes, in case Art allows control over the serial port, which I reckon will eventually happen.
        >
        > To integrate the key presses and LEDs will require a new screen design set. There may even be a page that mimics the pendent?
        >
        > Take the mach2 reset function. If the CNC reset button on the pendent is pressed, a key press is generated (esc). This goes to a button in Mach2 that we have created "RESET". For this button we check if the Mach2 state is in reset, if not we send a command out the serial port say "L0340206 LF23", then call the reset command in Mach2.
        >
        > What this would do is turn off LEDs 34, 2 and 6 and Flash LED 23. Well you det the idea.
        >
        > If the pendent Memory button was pressed, this would cause the Mach2 screen to be displayed and the LEDs for the other 4 cnc modes to turn off and the Memory button LED to turn on.
        >
        > The LCD would also have a command set, maybe similar to the commercial serial LCD units. That way information could be positioned and displayed on the LCD.
        >
        > For example if the pendent F1 key is pressed a key code would be sent to a Mach2 button that would have a macro that would read the set and current spindles and display them on the LCD.
        >
        > So, at the very least, the new CPU board will just be a keyboard encoder that neatly plugs into the pendent. It also has the ability to control the LEDs and LCD, although in a clumsy fashion. It also has the ability in the future to do away with the PS/2 Keyboard I/F and do all of the control via the serial port, once Mach2 has that capability.
        >
        > If we had the unit built and working, I'm sure that Art would come to the party and add functionality into Mach2.
        >
        > Also, as the supply of these units are extremely limited (I want another one), The controller board or it's design could be repackaged into another enclosure using it as a standard for a Mach2 pendent. Once enough people are interested a suitable Mylar transfer could be designed, making it quite a respectable pendent.
        >
        > Now that I've got my self excited, I don't know where to find the time in the immediate future, although I am committed to it.
        >
        >
        > By the way, I live in Melbourne.
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        >
        > Peter Homann
        > mailto:Peter.Homann@...
        > Adacel Technologies Limited,
        > 250 Bay St, BRIGHTON, 3186, AUSTRALIA
        > http://www.adacel.com
        > Telephone +61 (3) 8530 7777, Facsimile +61 (3) 9596 2960
        > Mobile 0421-601 665
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jeff Goldberg [mailto:Jeff@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:52 AM
        > To: 'Peter Homann'
        > Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Next Development Version and Legacy Issues. + Pendent Issues
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