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RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Camera zeroing Help! Brian Barker maybe?

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  • Mark Vaughan
    Some will put the camera at an angle looking down onto the work piece, but then the height above the work piece becomes critical. There are commercial
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2007
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      Some will put the camera at an angle looking down onto the work piece, but
      then the height above the work piece becomes critical.

      There are commercial alignment rigs that use two angled pictures and judge
      the distance by superimposing the pictures of the two, I suppose if both had
      their angle changed together so the pictures lined up, than at that point
      the graticle should be centred over the work.

      Some put a camera in a tool changer, and change to the camera tool.

      I have seen little motorised mounts, that use one camera and put a prism
      down between the cutter and the workpiece. You see both the work piece and
      the cutter, then they pull this out to the side to do Z alignment with a
      side view, and finally retract the camera. I am not totally sure how it is
      all done, saw a very quick video demonstration. All done in seconds, but the
      idea was an interesting one.

      I have briefly looked at Mach's version, and it is rather undocumented.
      Really just a picture and some graticles, more suitable for watching the
      work close up, I think this area probably needs a lot more thought to become
      real. On a lathe though I imagine it could work well just mounted above the
      tool.



      Dr. Mark Vaughan Ph'D. B.Eng. M0VAU

      Managing Director

      Vaughan Industries Ltd, reg in UK no 2561068

      Water Care Technology Ltd, reg in UK no 4129351

      Addr Unit3, Sydney House, Blackwater, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 8HH, UK.
      Phone/Fax 44 1872 561288

      RSGB DRM111(Cornwall)

      _____

      From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Brian Barker
      Sent: 01 April 2007 01:10
      To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Camera zeroing Help! Brian Barker maybe?



      Jerry,
      It is under View/VideoWindow . You will need to work on getting the
      camera as straight and true to the spindle as you can to get zeroing to
      work :( I wish you luck and if you need help I will be around :)
      Brian

      ozzie34231 wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      > This idea of zeroing or indexing with a camera has just gotten to me as
      > I find there are some cameras as small as a tie clip.(If anyone
      > remembers what that is.)
      >
      > I know the ability is built into Mach 3 but despite an hour searching
      > this group and the docs, I am still empy-handed for info.
      >
      > And while at it can those who have used it comment, or if this is old
      > stuff, point me there.
      >
      > Will someone please direct me to the place for setup info.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Jerry
      >
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ozzie34231
      Thanks Brian, Mark, and Andry, I hoped there were more docs. I guess the questions for me are, do these little internet cameras focus close enough, is the
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2007
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        Thanks Brian, Mark, and Andry,

        I hoped there were more docs. I guess the questions for me are, do
        these little internet cameras focus close enough, is the resolution
        good enough, can I get the camera dead on center, and its axis dead
        on with the quill.

        Right now my only mill is a Shoptask, so I have very little room to
        work with, but yesterday I saw this camera that is less than a 1/2
        inch deep. Seems to me I can make a R-8 holder that would give me the
        adjusting facility needed.

        Am I correct in thinking that turning the spindle through 360 degrees
        will show if I'm centered, and feeding up and down will show if I'm
        parallel to the Z axis? Does moving up and down to do this, affect
        the focus or aren't they that sensitive?

        Also, will the spindle have to be in the exact same rotational
        position every time, or doesn't that matter. Seems to me if it's not
        then movement in the table as I try to "zero in" won't show in the
        picture as movement along the axis I'm moving? Hunh?

        Maybe it should be mounted on a plate next to the spindle, and try to
        get it at an exact offset like two inches?

        I guess at worst I can blow $50 and experiment!

        What think,
        Jerry




        --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Vaughan" <mark@...> wrote:
        >
        > Some will put the camera at an angle looking down onto the work
      • gerald_dorrington
        Here is another aussie s experimentation with a camera on a ShopBot: http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/27/12790.html ... the ... degrees ... not ... to
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2007
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          Here is another aussie's experimentation with a camera on a ShopBot:
          http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/27/12790.html



          --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "ozzie34231" <OzzieII@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Brian, Mark, and Andry,
          >
          > I hoped there were more docs. I guess the questions for me are, do
          > these little internet cameras focus close enough, is the resolution
          > good enough, can I get the camera dead on center, and its axis dead
          > on with the quill.
          >
          > Right now my only mill is a Shoptask, so I have very little room to
          > work with, but yesterday I saw this camera that is less than a 1/2
          > inch deep. Seems to me I can make a R-8 holder that would give me
          the
          > adjusting facility needed.
          >
          > Am I correct in thinking that turning the spindle through 360
          degrees
          > will show if I'm centered, and feeding up and down will show if I'm
          > parallel to the Z axis? Does moving up and down to do this, affect
          > the focus or aren't they that sensitive?
          >
          > Also, will the spindle have to be in the exact same rotational
          > position every time, or doesn't that matter. Seems to me if it's
          not
          > then movement in the table as I try to "zero in" won't show in the
          > picture as movement along the axis I'm moving? Hunh?
          >
          > Maybe it should be mounted on a plate next to the spindle, and try
          to
          > get it at an exact offset like two inches?
          >
          > I guess at worst I can blow $50 and experiment!
          >
          > What think,
          > Jerry
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Vaughan" <mark@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Some will put the camera at an angle looking down onto the work
          >
        • ozzie34231
          Thanks Gerald, interesting site. I read most of it along with the links. I bought a laser edge finder a while back, but I don t like it much. The light source
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2007
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            Thanks Gerald, interesting site. I read most of it along with the
            links.

            I bought a laser edge finder a while back, but I don't like it much.
            The light source is not centered and the dot is too big, and the unit
            is too long.

            I bought an internet camera this morning at a yard sale, $5, and I've
            been playing with it here at my desk. It loads into Mach 3 fine on
            the first use, but after that Mach says unable to load ocx video into
            Mach 3.

            The focusing is fine it will operate down to about 3 inches and maybe
            a new one is even better. The magnification is not very good for
            machine work, but I played with placing some simple magnifying lenses
            in front of the camera and got encouraging results.

            I think the setup in my price range will never do for highly accurate
            work, but for quick setups, within a couple thou, it could work.

            I'm liking the parallel to Z axis, i.e. mounted on a plate, hopefully
            at an even number distance on one axis and spot on, on the other axis.
            Think I'll buy that little bugger I saw yesterday.

            In the mean time maybe someone could help with an explaination of the
            controls on the Mach 3 video window. Maybe they're clear to most, but
            not to this old fart.

            Thanks,
            Jerry




            --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "gerald_dorrington"
            <gdpost@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here is another aussie's experimentation with a camera on a ShopBot:
            > http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/27/12790.html
            >
            >
            >
          • Matthew A. Morgano
            Just a thought..buy one of those little laser pens and mount on your z axis send machine to part home and them aim laser to that point (the center of your
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 2, 2007
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              Just a thought..buy one of those little laser pens and mount on your z axis
              send machine to part home and them aim laser to that point (the center of
              your tool) then after that you can just use the laser light as it will
              always be the center of your tool..it a very nice visual and will shine
              through dust hoods etc. with a tiny hole drilled in them.



              Matt



              From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Mark Vaughan
              Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:07 AM
              To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Camera zeroing Help! Brian Barker maybe?



              Some will put the camera at an angle looking down onto the work piece, but
              then the height above the work piece becomes critical.

              There are commercial alignment rigs that use two angled pictures and judge
              the distance by superimposing the pictures of the two, I suppose if both had
              their angle changed together so the pictures lined up, than at that point
              the graticle should be centred over the work.

              Some put a camera in a tool changer, and change to the camera tool.

              I have seen little motorised mounts, that use one camera and put a prism
              down between the cutter and the workpiece. You see both the work piece and
              the cutter, then they pull this out to the side to do Z alignment with a
              side view, and finally retract the camera. I am not totally sure how it is
              all done, saw a very quick video demonstration. All done in seconds, but the
              idea was an interesting one.

              I have briefly looked at Mach's version, and it is rather undocumented.
              Really just a picture and some graticles, more suitable for watching the
              work close up, I think this area probably needs a lot more thought to become
              real. On a lathe though I imagine it could work well just mounted above the
              tool.

              Dr. Mark Vaughan Ph'D. B.Eng. M0VAU

              Managing Director

              Vaughan Industries Ltd, reg in UK no 2561068

              Water Care Technology Ltd, reg in UK no 4129351

              Addr Unit3, Sydney House, Blackwater, Truro, Cornwall, TR4 8HH, UK.
              Phone/Fax 44 1872 561288

              RSGB DRM111(Cornwall)

              _____

              From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ]
              On Behalf Of Brian Barker
              Sent: 01 April 2007 01:10
              To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Camera zeroing Help! Brian Barker maybe?

              Jerry,
              It is under View/VideoWindow . You will need to work on getting the
              camera as straight and true to the spindle as you can to get zeroing to
              work :( I wish you luck and if you need help I will be around :)
              Brian

              ozzie34231 wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              > This idea of zeroing or indexing with a camera has just gotten to me as
              > I find there are some cameras as small as a tie clip.(If anyone
              > remembers what that is.)
              >
              > I know the ability is built into Mach 3 but despite an hour searching
              > this group and the docs, I am still empy-handed for info.
              >
              > And while at it can those who have used it comment, or if this is old
              > stuff, point me there.
              >
              > Will someone please direct me to the place for setup info.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Jerry
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Arnie Minear
              Ozzie, I have been using the video camera for a while now. Your problem with only working the first time in Mach, if you are using an older rev. there were
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Ozzie,

                I have been using the video camera for a while now.

                Your problem with only working the first time in Mach, if you are
                using an older rev. there were some problems with not releasing memory.
                Update to the latest rev and it should work ok, or when done with the
                camera, ensure you stop the video stream before closing the video
                winow.

                Centering - You need to mount your camera so you can adjust it's
                center. I posted a drawing under the mach forum in the machsupport
                forum (not yahoo), do a search for optical or video window, check out
                my camera under bargain basement.

                You position the camera in your spindle move your xy until the
                crosshairs line up over a mark, rotate the spindle. If the mark moves
                away from the cross hair you are not centered, adjust it halfway back
                to the center using your camera mount adjustment. Then rotate back to
                original position, move xy to position again on the mark, and repeat.
                Once it doesn't move off the mark (or very close) you are centered.

                The camera I am using I can focus at 1/8" from the material, this
                gives a highly accurate position, down to mils.

                Arnie
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