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Lathe Radius Comp.

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  • ozzie34231
    Hi Art, I haven t heard anything lately about where we stand with turning Radius Compensation. I hadn t thought it very important but I ve been turning some
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Hi Art,
      I haven't heard anything lately about where we stand with turning
      Radius Compensation.

      I hadn't thought it very important but I've been turning some half
      sphere ends on 3/4 and 1 inch rods, with code generated by the wizard.
      I'm using triangular Carbide inserts and although the nose radius is
      small, I can see with the naked eye that the location where the
      cutting starts is not the part of the tool that I used to set the Z
      position; where the cut ends, the right part of the insert is cutting.
      (Clear???)

      For this hobby job it's not important but I can see the problem
      trying to cut a precision part.

      I guess using the CAM program would be a cure, ---right Steve. :)

      Jerry
    • art
      Hi Jerry: I m way behind on that. The functionallity, when you begin to dig deep enough, is highly specialized and it will be awhile yet. It will probably be
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Hi Jerry:

        I'm way behind on that. The functionallity, when you begin to dig deep
        enough, is highly specialized and it will be awhile yet. It will
        probably be one of the last things I add as I find I need many more support
        fucntions in there for that one. Its one of those "looks easy" but really
        isn't " type of things.
        So yes, As Steve will tell you, CAM is the answer. (For now anyway..)

        Thanks,
        Art
        www.artofcnc.ca
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "ozzie34231" <Ozzie@...>
        To: <mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:14 PM
        Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Lathe Radius Comp.


        >
        >
        > Hi Art,
        > I haven't heard anything lately about where we stand with turning
        > Radius Compensation.
        >
      • art
        Jerry: BTW, one of the holdups is that I want to redo Mills compensation first. I m sick of this single line compensation and am trying my best to make it
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Jerry:

          BTW, one of the holdups is that I want to redo Mills compensation first.
          I'm sick of this
          single line compensation and am trying my best to make it multiblock
          lookahead for
          full compensatin even on inside corners..

          Thanks,
          Art
          www.artofcnc.ca
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "ozzie34231" <Ozzie@...>
          To: <mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:14 PM
          Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Lathe Radius Comp.


          >
          >
          > Hi Art,
          > I haven't heard anything lately about where we stand with turning
          > Radius Compensation.
          >
        • fly_fisher_53
          So in mach 3 lathe, G40, G41 & G42 should produce the out of plane error ? My cadcam software wants to use these G codes, but I can program the post processor
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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            So in mach 3 lathe, G40, G41 & G42 should produce the "out of plane
            error"?

            My cadcam software wants to use these G codes, but I can program the
            post processor for these gcodes to a different word format. Would I
            just tell the Post to out put the same X & Z with a G1 instead of a
            G41 or G42 and no I or J words????

            Are there other G or M codes not setup to work in turn that are listed
            in the documentation in the Mach 2 pdf help file?

            Another question, does there exist an active "HotKey" list for Mach 3
            turn? seems like hotkeys that work in the mill modual are missing in
            turn? such as "Home" key and maybe some others??


            Wish list...

            1. An "Edit" code button next to the "Load" button in auto mode.

            2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or buttons
            when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been going
            to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back? is
            there a easier way?


            thanks


            --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, art <fenerty@a...> wrote:
            > Jerry:
            >
            > BTW, one of the holdups is that I want to redo Mills compensation
            first.
            > I'm sick of this
            > single line compensation and am trying my best to make it multiblock
            > lookahead for
            > full compensatin even on inside corners..
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Art
            > www.artofcnc.ca
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "ozzie34231" <Ozzie@c...>
            > To: <mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:14 PM
            > Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Lathe Radius Comp.
            >
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Art,
            > > I haven't heard anything lately about where we stand with turning
            > > Radius Compensation.
            > >
          • art
            ... G41 ang G42 command radius compensation, since there is none implemented in Turn, you need to remove the line entirely. Your part would be offsize in this
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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              Hi:

              > My cadcam software wants to use these G codes, but I can program the
              > post processor for these gcodes to a different word format. Would I
              > just tell the Post to out put the same X & Z with a G1 instead of a
              > G41 or G42 and no I or J words????

              G41 ang G42 command radius compensation, since there is none implemented
              in Turn, you need to remove the line entirely. Your part would be offsize in
              this case though
              by the amount of the tool radius. Many Cam packages, you just tell them not
              to use radius comp
              and the program they generate will take care of it in the code.
              Hopefully, we'll have it soon..
              >
              > Are there other G or M codes not setup to work in turn that are listed
              > in the documentation in the Mach 2 pdf help file?

              There is no doc for Turn as yet, but most commands work, its really the
              compensation
              and some of the milling cycles that do not work in Turn.

              >
              > Another question, does there exist an active "HotKey" list for Mach 3
              > turn? seems like hotkeys that work in the mill modual are missing in
              > turn? such as "Home" key and maybe some others??

              There are probably none set. Open the screen designer, load the 1024.lset
              file
              and you can add your own though. Just double-click each button and enter a
              hot key
              , resave the screen, and your hot keys will work. I never use hotkeys
              myself, so I haven't
              compiled a list as yet. The documentation will list the standard ones, (when
              their added if not
              there already) when its ready.

              >
              >
              > Wish list...
              >
              > 1. An "Edit" code button next to the "Load" button in auto mode.

              There is one on the cycle screen. You can copy it back to the auto screen
              in the designer though. Try it, youll find its not too large a learning
              curve to
              change your screens around.

              >
              > 2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or buttons
              > when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been going
              > to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back? is
              > there a easier way?
              >
              Same here. Tuen try's to be very minimalist in its approach so as not to
              scare
              people away with too many controls. In the end I hope to have a better
              screen designer
              that will allow for easier modification , I know its a bit intimiadating
              right now..

              Thanks,
              Art
            • Andy Wander
              I added buttons on the manual, auto, and cycle screens in Mach3 Turn to get me to any of the other screens, without doing a quit mode and going into the
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                I added buttons on the manual, auto, and cycle screens in Mach3 Turn to get
                me to any of the other screens, without doing a "quit mode" and going into
                the other screen-makes my work flow, at least, a lot easier.

                (sorry, Steve) :)

                Andy Wander
                Verrex Corporation

                -----Original Message-----
                From: fly_fisher_53 [mailto:fly_fisher_53@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:16 PM
                To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Lathe Radius Comp. Subsistutions????



                So in mach 3 lathe, G40, G41 & G42 should produce the "out of plane
                error"?

                My cadcam software wants to use these G codes, but I can program the
                post processor for these gcodes to a different word format. Would I
                just tell the Post to out put the same X & Z with a G1 instead of a
                G41 or G42 and no I or J words????

                Are there other G or M codes not setup to work in turn that are listed
                in the documentation in the Mach 2 pdf help file?

                Another question, does there exist an active "HotKey" list for Mach 3
                turn? seems like hotkeys that work in the mill modual are missing in
                turn? such as "Home" key and maybe some others??


                Wish list...

                1. An "Edit" code button next to the "Load" button in auto mode.

                2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or buttons
                when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been going
                to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back? is
                there a easier way?


                thanks


                --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, art <fenerty@a...> wrote:
                > Jerry:
                >
                > BTW, one of the holdups is that I want to redo Mills compensation
                first.
                > I'm sick of this
                > single line compensation and am trying my best to make it multiblock
                > lookahead for
                > full compensatin even on inside corners..
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Art
                > www.artofcnc.ca
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "ozzie34231" <Ozzie@c...>
                > To: <mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:14 PM
                > Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Lathe Radius Comp.
                >
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Art,
                > > I haven't heard anything lately about where we stand with turning
                > > Radius Compensation.
                > >






                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Steve Blackmore
                ... Sure would . There s a way, maybe, (not tried it) use a round button tool and program centre line with radius compensation ?? But, if the wizard is
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                  On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 18:14:54 -0000, you wrote:

                  >I haven't heard anything lately about where we stand with turning
                  >Radius Compensation.

                  >I guess using the CAM program would be a cure, ---right Steve. :)

                  Sure would <G>.

                  There's a way, maybe, (not tried it) use a round button tool and program
                  centre line with radius compensation ??

                  But, if the wizard is working properly, you use a left hand tool (SCLCR
                  type), and you touched off on the side, then the tip of the tool, it
                  should cut correctly. It will screw up if you use a "chamfering" tool
                  (SCSCR type).


                  Steve Blackmore
                  --



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                • Steve Blackmore
                  ... For now, yes. ... The edit is on the cycle run screen only, because you would only know code needed editing after/during running. As you can t run from
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                    On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 20:16:02 -0000, you wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    >So in mach 3 lathe, G40, G41 & G42 should produce the "out of plane
                    >error"?

                    For now, yes.


                    >1. An "Edit" code button next to the "Load" button in auto mode.

                    The edit is on the "cycle run screen" only, because you would only know
                    code needed editing after/during running. As you can't run from "auto"
                    screen, there's none there. As Art says, easy to add if you want to.

                    >2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or buttons
                    >when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been going
                    >to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back? is
                    >there a easier way?

                    Auto screens are designed for running pre-prepared code only. You
                    shouldn't need to "home" from there - it should really be in your code
                    (G28) or G0 XxZx.


                    Steve Blackmore
                    --



                    This e-mail was scanned for viruses using BitDefender
                  • Steve Blackmore
                    ... No problem, but under what circumstances would you want to? :) Perhaps I m odd, but if I m manual machining I only need the manual screen. Then If I want
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                      On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:31:24 -0500, you wrote:

                      >
                      >I added buttons on the manual, auto, and cycle screens in Mach3 Turn to get
                      >me to any of the other screens, without doing a "quit mode" and going into
                      >the other screen-makes my work flow, at least, a lot easier.
                      >
                      >(sorry, Steve) :)

                      No problem, but under what circumstances would you want to? :)

                      Perhaps I'm odd, but if I'm manual machining I only need the manual
                      screen. Then If I want to run parts, I open auto, touch off tool1, enter
                      my part coords, go to run screen and off I go. I don't ever need to go
                      back to manual until the CNC job/jobs done. If I want to CNC a different
                      part, back arrow, unload, load code, retouch if needed, enter co-ords,
                      cycle, cycle start and off I go again. Took 50 times longer to type than
                      do <G>.


                      Steve Blackmore
                      --



                      This e-mail was scanned for viruses using BitDefender
                    • ozzie34231
                      ... (SCLCR ... it ... tool ... Unt-uh. As long as the tip has any radius, a ball nose part will be off by the amount of that radius. The tool touches the outer
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                        > But, if the wizard is working properly, you use a left hand tool
                        (SCLCR
                        > type), and you touched off on the side, then the tip of the tool,
                        it
                        > should cut correctly. It will screw up if you use a "chamfering"
                        tool
                        > (SCSCR type).
                        >
                        >
                        > Steve Blackmore
                        > --

                        Unt-uh.
                        As long as the tip has any radius, a ball nose part will be off by
                        the amount of that radius.

                        The tool touches the outer diameter of the part with the 12 o'clock
                        part of its radius and finishes at X0 with the 9 o'clock part of ita
                        radius.
                        Therefore the start is a radius too far right
                        And the finish leaves a radius sized nipple.


                        Jerry
                      • fly_fish@yahoo.com
                        Thanks Steve and Thanks Art. You know how us newbies are, try to do everything the hard way until someone shows the easy and right way to do it. G28 in the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 1, 2005
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                          Thanks Steve and Thanks Art.

                          You know how us newbies are, try to do everything the hard way until
                          someone shows the easy and right way to do it.

                          G28 in the code, who da thunk it? <grin> My thinking was, I needed to
                          clear the Z & X refed/home led's to green and set part zeros before I
                          ran the code. So was looking for a buttons to do this all in the auto
                          screen.

                          What I'm doing is trying to get a post processor working for output
                          to mach 3 from code generated from Cadem Capsturn. Its given me the
                          fits now for about 3 days. Generates code that looks right, and a
                          tool path, but the tool path is always opposite of the setting in
                          mach configuration in tool path "show tool above centerline" and the
                          silverish part drawing in mach screen end up being coned shaped even
                          when the code defines a stepped shaft? Right now, my x axes is going
                          the wrong way from the post processor and can't get it back to
                          normal. Only good I've done so far is learn 6 months of G code in
                          about 3 days <grin>

                          Know of anyone who has built a post processor for Cadem to Mach?


                          >So in mach 3 lathe, G40, G41 & G42 should produce the "out of plane
                          > >error"?
                          >
                          > For now, yes.
                          >
                          >
                          > >1. An "Edit" code button next to the "Load" button in auto mode.
                          >
                          > The edit is on the "cycle run screen" only, because you would only
                          know
                          > code needed editing after/during running. As you can't run
                          from "auto"
                          > screen, there's none there. As Art says, easy to add if you want to.
                          >
                          > >2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or
                          buttons
                          > >when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been
                          going
                          > >to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back?
                          is
                          > >there a easier way?
                          >
                          > Auto screens are designed for running pre-prepared code only. You
                          > shouldn't need to "home" from there - it should really be in your
                          code
                          > (G28) or G0 XxZx.
                          >
                          >
                          > Steve Blackmore
                          > --
                        • japrenticeuk
                          ... wrote: ... buttons ... going ... is ... code ... and ... Turn to get ... going into ... enter ... to go ... different ... ords, ... than ... Steve
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                            --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@p...>
                            wrote:
                            <snip>
                            > >2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or
                            buttons
                            > >when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been
                            going
                            > >to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back?
                            is
                            > >there a easier way?
                            >
                            > Auto screens are designed for running pre-prepared code only. You
                            > shouldn't need to "home" from there - it should really be in your
                            code
                            > (G28) or G0 XxZx.
                            >
                            and

                            >>I added buttons on the manual, auto, and cycle screens in Mach3
                            Turn to get
                            >>me to any of the other screens, without doing a "quit mode" and
                            going into
                            >>the other screen-makes my work flow, at least, a lot easier.
                            >>
                            >>(sorry, Steve) :)

                            > No problem, but under what circumstances would you want to? :)

                            > Perhaps I'm odd, but if I'm manual machining I only need the manual
                            > screen. Then If I want to run parts, I open auto, touch off tool1,
                            enter
                            > my part coords, go to run screen and off I go. I don't ever need
                            to go
                            > back to manual until the CNC job/jobs done. If I want to CNC a
                            different
                            > part, back arrow, unload, load code, retouch if needed, enter co-
                            ords,
                            >cycle, cycle start and off I go again. Took 50 times longer to type
                            than
                            > do <G>.

                            Steve et al:

                            I think that this particular workflow depends on whether you have
                            home switches (especially on X) or not. I too have put Home buttons
                            on my Auto-Prep screen (though not Auto-cycle) so I can reference to
                            the switches without first going via Manual screen, then Touch Z
                            etc. etc. as you describe.

                            John Prentice
                          • Steve Blackmore
                            ... Dohh - Of course it will, silly me. If G41 worked just like mill it would work in a rudimentary way, for NW quadrant If you touched off as I said and
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                              On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:56:02 -0000, you wrote:


                              >Unt-uh.
                              >As long as the tip has any radius, a ball nose part will be off by
                              >the amount of that radius.
                              >
                              >The tool touches the outer diameter of the part with the 12 o'clock
                              >part of its radius and finishes at X0 with the 9 o'clock part of ita
                              >radius.
                              >Therefore the start is a radius too far right
                              >And the finish leaves a radius sized nipple.


                              Dohh - Of course it will, silly me. If G41 worked just like mill it
                              would work in a rudimentary way, for NW quadrant If you touched off as I
                              said and programed the radius centre line.

                              Brain addled by CAM and post fudging for drill cycles <G>


                              Steve Blackmore
                              --



                              This e-mail was scanned for viruses using BitDefender
                            • Steve Blackmore
                              ... - Easy done. ... Good for the soul (NOT ;)! Sounds like your post is built for a rear toolpost machine, or you are using a rear toolpost machine?
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                                On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 04:43:02 -0000, you wrote:


                                >G28 in the code, who da thunk it? <grin> My thinking was, I needed to
                                >clear the Z & X refed/home led's to green and set part zeros before I
                                >ran the code. So was looking for a buttons to do this all in the auto
                                >screen.

                                <G> - Easy done.

                                >What I'm doing is trying to get a post processor working for output
                                >to mach 3 from code generated from Cadem Capsturn. Its given me the
                                >fits now for about 3 days. Generates code that looks right, and a
                                >tool path, but the tool path is always opposite of the setting in
                                >mach configuration in tool path "show tool above centerline" and the
                                >silverish part drawing in mach screen end up being coned shaped even
                                >when the code defines a stepped shaft? Right now, my x axes is going
                                >the wrong way from the post processor and can't get it back to
                                >normal. Only good I've done so far is learn 6 months of G code in
                                >about 3 days <grin>


                                Good for the soul (NOT ;)!

                                Sounds like your post is built for a rear toolpost machine, or you are
                                using a rear toolpost machine?

                                Usually there is a simple setting for post like toolpost=1 or 2 (or
                                front or rear) that will fix that, or maybe even a setting in the
                                program itself?

                                >Know of anyone who has built a post processor for Cadem to Mach?

                                Nope - looks like you're it :)


                                Steve Blackmore
                                --



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                              • Andy Wander
                                And, Steve, I may be doing stuff wrong . Remember, I don t have your experience at CNC. Sure would be nice to have a rel tutorial doc on how to set up and run
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                                  And, Steve, I may be doing stuff "wrong". Remember, I don't have your
                                  experience at CNC.

                                  Sure would be nice to have a rel tutorial doc on how to set up and run a job
                                  using Turn! :)

                                  BTW, the reason that I want to have the Edit Button and the Load Button on
                                  the same screen(I have asked about this previously, just as the other fellow
                                  asked recently) is that quite often want to open an existing job, make a few
                                  changes, save under a new name, and then run it.

                                  Andy Wander
                                  Verrex Corporation

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: japrenticeuk [mailto:john@...]
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:25 AM
                                  To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Lathe Radius Comp. Subsistutions????



                                  --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, Steve Blackmore <steve@p...>
                                  wrote:
                                  <snip>
                                  > >2. Access to the "home world", "home", buttons via a screen or
                                  buttons
                                  > >when in auto mode all there is is "part zero" buttons I've been
                                  going
                                  > >to manual to perform my home referencing and then switching back?
                                  is
                                  > >there a easier way?
                                  >
                                  > Auto screens are designed for running pre-prepared code only. You
                                  > shouldn't need to "home" from there - it should really be in your
                                  code
                                  > (G28) or G0 XxZx.
                                  >
                                  and

                                  >>I added buttons on the manual, auto, and cycle screens in Mach3
                                  Turn to get
                                  >>me to any of the other screens, without doing a "quit mode" and
                                  going into
                                  >>the other screen-makes my work flow, at least, a lot easier.
                                  >>
                                  >>(sorry, Steve) :)

                                  > No problem, but under what circumstances would you want to? :)

                                  > Perhaps I'm odd, but if I'm manual machining I only need the manual
                                  > screen. Then If I want to run parts, I open auto, touch off tool1,
                                  enter
                                  > my part coords, go to run screen and off I go. I don't ever need
                                  to go
                                  > back to manual until the CNC job/jobs done. If I want to CNC a
                                  different
                                  > part, back arrow, unload, load code, retouch if needed, enter co-
                                  ords,
                                  >cycle, cycle start and off I go again. Took 50 times longer to type
                                  than
                                  > do <G>.

                                  Steve et al:

                                  I think that this particular workflow depends on whether you have
                                  home switches (especially on X) or not. I too have put Home buttons
                                  on my Auto-Prep screen (though not Auto-cycle) so I can reference to
                                  the switches without first going via Manual screen, then Touch Z
                                  etc. etc. as you describe.

                                  John Prentice







                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                • Steve Blackmore
                                  ... Rudimentary version is in files - last section. Mach3 Turn Professional.pdf If you think it needs expanding, let me know and I ll have a go. ... Ahh -
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 2, 2005
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                                    On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 07:48:01 -0500, you wrote:

                                    >
                                    >And, Steve, I may be doing stuff "wrong". Remember, I don't have your
                                    >experience at CNC.
                                    >
                                    >Sure would be nice to have a rel tutorial doc on how to set up and run a job
                                    >using Turn! :)

                                    Rudimentary version is in files - last section.

                                    Mach3 Turn Professional.pdf

                                    If you think it needs expanding, let me know and I'll have a go.

                                    >BTW, the reason that I want to have the Edit Button and the Load Button on
                                    >the same screen(I have asked about this previously, just as the other fellow
                                    >asked recently) is that quite often want to open an existing job, make a few
                                    >changes, save under a new name, and then run it.

                                    Ahh - right, just copy button to convenient blank on auto screen <G>.
                                    Personally after manually changing code I'd want to run it with no
                                    stock, or single step it to see if my edit was OK. (Or better do in CAM
                                    = Nice preview :).


                                    Steve Blackmore
                                    --



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