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Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:noise problem.

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  • quadconversions
    Hi Andy, Everything is plugged into one surge protection extension lead. Yes I m in the UK..240V. The one thing I did change was the PC Ram from a 512Mb
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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      Hi Andy,

      Everything is plugged into one surge protection extension lead. Yes I'm
      in the UK..240V.

      The one thing I did change was the PC Ram from a 512Mb stick to 2X 2Gb
      Corsair sticks..... I guess it's worth putting the 512Mb stick back in,,,
      It's always run on 512Mb.

      I thought it would improve things, but it's the only thing I've changed
      since it last ran...

      Regards Dave


      In a message dated 21/07/2013 21:30:55 GMT Daylight Time,
      ohawiseguyeh@... writes:

      Hi Dave:



      It might.



      The current buffer BOB that you are using doesn't seem to have isolation
      between the PC and the machine. This one says it is isolated.



      That brings up another question, have you changed anything as far as where
      the PC and the machine/controller get their AC power from? Ideally, they
      would both be plugged into the same outlet, or 22 outlets on the same
      wiring
      run. This mau ==y not apply if you are in the UK(I am guessing that based
      on
      the links you provided)



      Andy Wander

      _____

      From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of qconvers@...
      Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:44 PM
      To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:noise problem.





      Hi Andy,

      Would this be a worth while purchase?


      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Breakout-board-CNC-Stepper-Motor-5-Axis-Spindle-Re
      lay-/111114978565?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item19def8
      0505#ht_766wt_785

      Regards Dave



      In a message dated 21/07/2013 20:29:45 GMT Daylight Time,
      ohawiseguyeh@... <mailto:ohawiseguyeh%40gmail.com> writes:

      I would install the caps right at the BOB from inputs to a GND terminals.

      Andy Wander

      _____

      From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ]
      On Behalf Of qconvers@... <mailto:qconvers%40aol.com>
      Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:56 PM
      To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:noise problem.

      Hi Andy,

      I do have fluorescent tubes but they've not been on today.

      I've replaced my Makita router with a new one but the problem remains,
      with
      it disconnected.

      When you say 'ground' do you mean across the + and - terminals on the
      board
      or to the grounded star point?

      I have always used one of these BOBs...

      http://www.cncdoctor.co.uk/lpt-buffer_63.html

      I guess fitting the Ethernet SS is my next job. I've been put off doing it
      since the machine was running good, but this is a good reason for doing
      it.

      Thanks for your responce.

      Regards Dave

      In a message dated 21/07/2013 19:39:09 GMT Daylight Time,
      ohawiseguyeh@... <mailto:ohawiseguyeh%40gmail.com>
      <mailto:ohawiseguyeh%40gmail.com> writes:

      Hi Dave:

      Do you have fluorescent lights in the shop? If so, can you try running with
      the lights off, and see if it still trips? I have seen situations where a
      faulty ballast r even a failing fluorescent tube can generate massive
      amounts of radiated noise, which might be getting into your system.

      Has anything else electrical changed, which might be causing the noise
      problems?

      Without knowing the frequency of the noise, as well as the input impedance
      of your BOB, a cap value can't be specified. However, you could try 0.1uF
      and 0.01uF caps, at least as a starting point. They would be installed from
      your BOB limit switch inputs to GND.

      Are you using a USB SS now? If so, switching to Ethernet SS could
      definitely
      help.

      Andy Wander

      _____

      From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>

      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ]
      On Behalf Of qconvers@... <mailto:qconvers%40aol.com>
      <mailto:qconvers%40aol.com>
      Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:30 PM
      To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:noise problem.

      I've got a noise problem which is getting worse.

      I videoed the diag screen and found my X axis switches flashing as Mach
      tripped. I've disconnected them from the end of the Igus shielded cable
      now.

      I have the router disconnected from the mains. There's no VFD. All
      shields to one point on my alloy control box and all earths running from
      the
      same
      point. The machine is grounded though the mains. And yet every 5 mins or
      so mach will say there's a limit switch triggered. I've set Debouce upto
      4000... still the same.

      I did have my BOB powered by a USB cable but I've now got it powered from
      a
      5V power supply.

      Still every 5 mins Mach trips. Video shows no flash of LEDs now as it
      does.

      I've swopped our the power supplies for a new Meanwell... still the same.

      I have an ethernet smooth stepper I've never got around to fitting.. would
      this help?
      I saw a video where someone fitted capacitors across the limit switch
      wires.. would this help? If so what size caps should I use?

      This machine has run for many hours just fine. I'm pulling my hair out
      now. Any advice?

      Regards Dave K

      In a message dated 19/07/2013 16:23:09 GMT Daylight Time,
      ptegler@... <mailto:ptegler%40verizon.net>
      <mailto:ptegler%40verizon.net>
      <mailto:ptegler%40verizon.net> writes:

      check your diag screen...you've got a limit tripped somewhere...faulty
      switch perhaps....

      Paul Tegler
      ptegler@... <mailto:ptegler%40verizon.net>
      <mailto:ptegler%40verizon.net>
      <mailto:ptegler%40verizon.net>
      www.teglerizer.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <qconvers@... <mailto:qconvers%40aol.com>
      <mailto:qconvers%40aol.com>
      <mailto:qconvers%40aol.com> >
      To: <mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>

      <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
      >
      Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 10:11 AM
      Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:Jog, limit switch problem

      >
      > All of a sudden my machine won't jog fast, holding the shift key and when
      > homing it hits and comes off the Y axis switch OK but Mach then says it's
      > hit a limit switch and stops there...
      >
      > Have I got a setting wrong?
      >
      > Regards Dave K
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >

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    • quadconversions
      Hello Rupert, NC. I cut the wires to the X axis switches and twisted them together to complete the circuit. This stopped the LEDs flashing as it tripped,
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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        Hello Rupert,

        NC. I cut the wires to the X axis switches and twisted them together to
        complete the circuit. This stopped the LEDs flashing as it tripped, but
        still Mach trips and says 'limit switch triggered' without a flash of LEDs.

        I think Dave might be right and something is on it's last legs. Although
        the DDR2 RAM cards fitted the slots I did notice they were a different
        voltage rating.... maybe they are sucking the life out of another component..

        I'm tempted to buy an oscilloscope and start probing stuff.

        I'm not even moving the machine, it just sits there and trips. Yesterday
        it missed steps a couple of times and then cut perfectly for 2 hours...
        today it can't get off the start line.

        Regards Dave


        In a message dated 21/07/2013 23:39:41 GMT Daylight Time,
        rwenig2@... writes:

        Hello Dave,
        I'm curious. Do you have your limit switches wired NC or NO?

        Rupert

        On 7/21/2013 12:30 PM, qconvers@... wrote:
        > And yet every 5 mins or
        > so mach will say there's a limit switch triggered. I've set Debouce
        upto
        > 4000... still the same.

        --

        yvt

        Rupert Wenig
        Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

        email: rwenig2@...

        http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/



        ------------------------------------

        www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • chuck
        Dave, one of the first questions to ask when troubleshooting is what changed. you say you changed memory chips. so un-change them while your in there see if
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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          Dave,
          one of the first questions to ask when troubleshooting is what changed.
          you say you changed memory chips.
          so un-change them while your in there see if maybe something got moved or loosened in the process.
          if the problem is still there than you've eliminated one possibility so move on to the next logical cause.
          just my 2 cents,
          Chuck

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: qconvers@...
          To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:23 PM
          Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:noise problem.



          Hello Rupert,

          NC. I cut the wires to the X axis switches and twisted them together to
          complete the circuit. This stopped the LEDs flashing as it tripped, but
          still Mach trips and says 'limit switch triggered' without a flash of LEDs.

          I think Dave might be right and something is on it's last legs. Although
          the DDR2 RAM cards fitted the slots I did notice they were a different
          voltage rating.... maybe they are sucking the life out of another component..

          I'm tempted to buy an oscilloscope and start probing stuff.

          I'm not even moving the machine, it just sits there and trips. Yesterday
          it missed steps a couple of times and then cut perfectly for 2 hours...
          today it can't get off the start line.

          Regards Dave


          In a message dated 21/07/2013 23:39:41 GMT Daylight Time,
          rwenig2@... writes:

          Hello Dave,
          I'm curious. Do you have your limit switches wired NC or NO?

          Rupert

          On 7/21/2013 12:30 PM, qconvers@... wrote:
          > And yet every 5 mins or
          > so mach will say there's a limit switch triggered. I've set Debouce
          upto
          > 4000... still the same.

          --

          yvt

          Rupert Wenig
          Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

          email: rwenig2@...

          http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/

          ------------------------------------

          www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • quadconversions
          I m just debating wether I should drive up to work and try that or go to bed. It s tomorrow already here.... It will be my first job when the sun comes up.
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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            I'm just debating wether I should drive up to work and try that or go to
            bed. It's tomorrow already here.... It will be my first job when the sun
            comes up.

            Regards Dave


            In a message dated 22/07/2013 00:36:29 GMT Daylight Time,
            chuckels@... writes:

            Dave,
            one of the first questions to ask when troubleshooting is what changed.
            you say you changed memory chips.
            so un-change them while your in there see if maybe something got moved or
            loosened in the process.
            if the problem is still there than you've eliminated one possibility so
            move on to the next logical cause.
            just my 2 cents,
            Chuck

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: qconvers@...
            To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:23 PM
            Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re:noise problem.



            Hello Rupert,

            NC. I cut the wires to the X axis switches and twisted them together to
            complete the circuit. This stopped the LEDs flashing as it tripped, but
            still Mach trips and says 'limit switch triggered' without a flash of LEDs.

            I think Dave might be right and something is on it's last legs. Although
            the DDR2 RAM cards fitted the slots I did notice they were a different
            voltage rating.... maybe they are sucking the life out of another
            component..

            I'm tempted to buy an oscilloscope and start probing stuff.

            I'm not even moving the machine, it just sits there and trips. Yesterday
            it missed steps a couple of times and then cut perfectly for 2 hours...
            today it can't get off the start line.

            Regards Dave


            In a message dated 21/07/2013 23:39:41 GMT Daylight Time,
            rwenig2@... writes:

            Hello Dave,
            I'm curious. Do you have your limit switches wired NC or NO?

            Rupert

            On 7/21/2013 12:30 PM, qconvers@... wrote:
            > And yet every 5 mins or
            > so mach will say there's a limit switch triggered. I've set Debouce
            upto
            > 4000... still the same.

            --

            yvt

            Rupert Wenig
            Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

            email: rwenig2@...

            http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/

            ------------------------------------

            www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jim Bell
            My limit switches are wired normally closed. If you wire the switches that way and configure Mach3 to handle the normally closed switch, it is the much
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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              My limit switches are wired normally closed. If you wire the switches that way and configure Mach3 to handle the normally closed switch, it is the much preferred connection method. If a wire breaks or gets disconnected, the limit will be on and you will know that there is a problem. If wired normally open, if a wire breaks or get disconnected, you will only know when you reach the limit and the carriage tries to keep going.
              Another reason, which may directly apply here, is that when the switches are wired normally closed, the limit signal is "grounded" by the switch being closed and the wiring from the switch to the interface box is MUCH less susceptible to noise.

              My switches here are high quality micro-switches. When I first installed them, I would sometimes get a x axis limit error after the carriage would cross a certain point. After much troubleshooting, the problem was a brand new defective switch. Replacing the switch fixed the problem and no more false limit problems. You may have a defective switch in your system.
              Hope this helps.
            • quadconversions
              Yes. these things dominate Ebay at the moment... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roller-Arm-Type-AC-Limit-Switch-For-CNC-Mill-Plasm
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes. these things dominate Ebay at the moment...


                http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roller-Arm-Type-AC-Limit-Switch-For-CNC-Mill-Plasm
                a-ME-8108-High-Quality-WST-/271237215814?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Sup
                plies_ET&hash=item3f26ff7646


                I thought I would just see if there was an Oscilloscope App for smart
                phones... blow me there is...

                http://www.oscilloscopeapp.com/

                and this one with the sensor through the audio jack...

                https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.serverbox.android.osciprime
                &hl=en

                Regards Dave


                In a message dated 22/07/2013 00:46:37 GMT Daylight Time,
                jiminwoodstock@... writes:




                My limit switches are wired normally closed. If you wire the switches that
                way and configure Mach3 to handle the normally closed switch, it is the
                much preferred connection method. If a wire breaks or gets disconnected, the
                limit will be on and you will know that there is a problem. If wired
                normally open, if a wire breaks or get disconnected, you will only know when you
                reach the limit and the carriage tries to keep going.
                Another reason, which may directly apply here, is that when the switches
                are wired normally closed, the limit signal is "grounded" by the switch
                being closed and the wiring from the switch to the interface box is MUCH less
                susceptible to noise.

                My switches here are high quality micro-switches. When I first installed
                them, I would sometimes get a x axis limit error after the carriage would
                cross a certain point. After much troubleshooting, the problem was a brand
                new defective switch. Replacing the switch fixed the problem and no more
                false limit problems. You may have a defective switch in your system.
                Hope this helps.



                ------------------------------------

                www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • quadconversions
                Sorry misread, microphone. In a message dated 22/07/2013 00:58:55 GMT Daylight Time, qconvers@aol.com writes: and this one with the sensor through the audio
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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                  Sorry misread, microphone.


                  In a message dated 22/07/2013 00:58:55 GMT Daylight Time, qconvers@...
                  writes:

                  and this one with the sensor through the audio jack...



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rupert
                  Dave, May I suggest to take a continuity reading on the complete switch circuit. Flex the wires when you do it plus actuate the switches to make sure they are
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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                    Dave,
                    May I suggest to take a continuity reading on the complete switch
                    circuit. Flex the wires when you do it plus actuate the switches to make
                    sure they are working right. From what I read, I suspect you have a
                    broken wire somewhere or a bad switch.

                    As mentioned, ram cards need to match the motherboard on a computer.
                    All kinds of funny stuff can happen if they don't match.

                    Rupert

                    On 7/21/2013 5:23 PM, qconvers@... wrote:
                    > Hello Rupert,
                    >
                    > NC. I cut the wires to the X axis switches and twisted them together to
                    > complete the circuit. This stopped the LEDs flashing as it tripped, but
                    > still Mach trips and says 'limit switch triggered' without a flash of LEDs.
                    >
                    > I think Dave might be right and something is on it's last legs. Although
                    > the DDR2 RAM cards fitted the slots I did notice they were a different
                    > voltage rating.... maybe they are sucking the life out of another component..
                    >
                    > I'm tempted to buy an oscilloscope and start probing stuff.
                    >
                    > I'm not even moving the machine, it just sits there and trips. Yesterday
                    > it missed steps a couple of times and then cut perfectly for 2 hours...
                    > today it can't get off the start line.
                    >
                    > Regards Dave
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 21/07/2013 23:39:41 GMT Daylight Time,
                    > rwenig2@... writes:
                    >
                    > Hello Dave,
                    > I'm curious. Do you have your limit switches wired NC or NO?
                    >
                    > Rupert
                    >
                    > On 7/21/2013 12:30 PM, qconvers@... wrote:
                    >> And yet every 5 mins or
                    >> so mach will say there's a limit switch triggered. I've set Debouce
                    > upto
                    >> 4000... still the same.
                    >

                    --

                    yvt

                    Rupert Wenig
                    Camrose, Alberta, Canada.

                    email: rwenig2@...

                    http://users.xplornet.com/~rwenig/Home/
                  • Jim Bell
                    ... Additional info... My limit switches are wired from ground to the interface board inputs. The interface board is configured so that +5v is present until
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 21, 2013
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                      --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Bell" <jiminwoodstock@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My limit switches are wired normally closed. If you wire the switches that way and configure Mach3 to handle the normally closed switch, it is the much preferred connection method. If a wire breaks or gets disconnected, the limit will be on and you will know that there is a problem. If wired normally open, if a wire breaks or get disconnected, you will only know when you reach the limit and the carriage tries to keep going.
                      > Another reason, which may directly apply here, is that when the switches are wired normally closed, the limit signal is "grounded" by the switch being closed and the wiring from the switch to the interface box is MUCH less susceptible to noise.
                      >
                      > My switches here are high quality micro-switches. When I first installed them, I would sometimes get a x axis limit error after the carriage would cross a certain point. After much troubleshooting, the problem was a brand new defective switch. Replacing the switch fixed the problem and no more false limit problems. You may have a defective switch in your system.
                      > Hope this helps.
                      >
                      Additional info...
                      My limit switches are wired from ground to the interface board inputs. The interface board is configured so that +5v is present until the switch is closed which will bring the input to 0V. This way any possible noise on the wire is shunted to ground by the normally closed switch.
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