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Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Threading trouble

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  • Steve Blackmore
    ... Parallel port? - If so - same here randomly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn t. Hence I use an early version of Mach or EMC, neither of which have
    Message 1 of 335 , Mar 1, 2011
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      On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 02:52:34 -0000, you wrote:

      >I got the spindle speed working on the newest version but when I try to thread it makes 4 or 5 passes that follow each other then then makes a pass doesn't makes more that do then another that doesn't so when I'm done no thread.

      Parallel port? - If so - same here randomly. Sometimes it works,
      sometimes it doesn't. Hence I use an early version of Mach or EMC,
      neither of which have the problem.


      Steve Blackmore
      --
    • David Maher
      Thanks Art, I ll have to cut another thread to get the lasterrors, In all the excitement I forgot to select the option last time. I will do it 1st thing
      Message 335 of 335 , Mar 13, 2011
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        Thanks Art, I'll have to cut another thread to get the lasterrors, In
        all the excitement I forgot to select the option last time. I will do it
        1st thing tomorrow.




        Regards



        David Maher


        ________________________________

        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of art2
        Sent: Sunday, 13 March 2011 11:09 PM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:





        David:

        Look to the lasterrors file..or send it to me .. perhaps its just a
        noisy index line. I can tell from the printout.
        Im going to redo the lasterrors output as only I can really read it
        properly at this point..

        While we're getting good threads on some machine.. I suspect I can add
        soem descrimination to perhaps ignore
        index I suspect are from noise.. ( more than 33% change from last
        rotation perhaps..).

        More need to be done.. but if your using PP.... let me see the results
        and I may be able to tell you whats wrong..

        Thanks,
        Art
        www.gearotic.com

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: David Maher
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 7:29 AM
        Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        Well today I reverted my machine to the PP with Art's new driver and my
        issues are still there. I am now confident that wahat I am seeing is
        something other than a SS or PP driver problem. I guess I always knew
        this in my heart of hearts, I just didn't like to admit to a stuff up
        on my part somewhere. I am admitting it now :)

        Not sure what the issue is, but it must be related to either the Z axis
        or the spindle, so that's where I'll start. I'll let you know once I've
        worked it out.

        Regards

        David Maher

        ________________________________

        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Andy Wander
        Sent: Saturday, 12 March 2011 5:08 PM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        Just once-I was out of reach of the machine, and it actually sounded
        like the spindle was about to stop-I would have hit Estop if I had been
        in reach-but it continued on, and the thread came out fine.

        Andy Wander, CTS, TCE I / TCE II
        Vice President, Engineering

        Verrex Corporation
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of David Maher
        Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2011 12:20 AM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        Did you still get the odd heavier cut?

        Regards

        David Maher

        ________________________________

        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Andy Wander
        Sent: Saturday, 12 March 2011 4:16 PM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        OK, I just cut a couple more 1.75-8 internal threads in aluminum and
        they came out great. Using SS, and spindle at 100RPM so my steppers are
        moving slow, down where they don't stall.

        Andy Wander

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of David Maher
        Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 4:15 PM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        > Next, I tried cutting at 300 RPM, which meant my axes would be moving
        at 25IPM during the cut. This resulted in the same nice cutting,
        interspersed with occasional heavier cuts, until it got to a point where
        my Z axis could not push hard enough(on one of the "heavy" cuts) and it
        stalled.

        Andy:
        This is exactly what happened to my test threads, it seems to be a
        coincidence that we both have very similar symptoms

        George:
        My index quality is good, verified with a cro, and the stability of the
        rpms shown in the debug data at the end of my last post while threading
        is an indication. There is nothing loose and the stepper doesn't lose
        steps, I would know immediately if there was any positional problem
        because I have linear scales on the lathe and the linear scales DRO
        would disagree with the Mach3 DRO if there was anything wrong in that
        area.

        The only thing that keeps me wondering if it's something my end is Hood
        with his excellent smoothstepper threads, otherwise I'd be saying that
        there is some kind of software problem.

        Regards

        David Maher

        ________________________________

        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Andy Wander
        Sent: Saturday, 12 March 2011 2:01 AM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        All good points George. I don't notice this DRO behavior doing normal
        turning.

        When threading, the Z-Axis stepper does not "sing" or sound unusual.

        Andy Wander

        -----Original Message-----
        From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of G_Mouer
        Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 9:56 AM
        To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] Re: Smoothstepper thread problem?:

        Andy, no I do not believe the spindle speed dro is locked during a
        thread pass. The spindle speed dro is driven by the same index pulse
        that times the threading, so they are closely related.

        How stable does your spindle dro look when just doing normal turning
        passes? Does the speed dro agree with what you are hearing and seeing?
        If not, then threading is in for big trouble. Spindle speed dro is using
        the index pulse for a non critical calculation to run the dro. Threading
        uses the same index for a much more critical purpose.

        I also notice that you can almost tell a threads quality blindfolded.
        Listening to the Z stepper feeding, nice steady tone equals a nice
        thread. If it sounds like its playing a song, the thread will be quite
        bad.

        At any rate, I think you have something going on that is totally
        independent of all this threading testing and talk lately. Things to
        look at are index quality, stepper missing a occasaional step? Something
        loose? (like a coupling on a axis motor or screw? I HAVE BEEN THERE!)
        You cannot believe the wild symptoms a loose setscrew can cause. You get
        the idea.

        --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> , Andy Wander <awander@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I cut a couple of more 8TPI threads in aluminum last night. Using SS
        and 3.043.0
        >
        > First, though, I looked at my Index pulse on a scope. It looked pretty
        good until I changed to a high scan rate, and saw little noise bursts
        riding on the signal. They were all pretty small, less than .5V P-P, and
        I didn't think they would cause a problem, but I fitted a small cap
        across the input on the BOB, and the noise was reduced even further.
        >
        > Next, I tried cutting at 300 RPM, which meant my axes would be moving
        at 25IPM during the cut. This resulted in the same nice cutting,
        interspersed with occasional heavier cuts, until it got to a point where
        my Z axis could not push hard enough(on one of the "heavy" cuts) and it
        stalled.
        >
        > 25IPM is half of my maximum rapid speed, so I decided to slow things
        way down. I changed my lathe belts so the top speed was around 300, and
        I tried some cuts at 100 RPM.
        >
        > I was cutting an internal thread, so I couldn't really see the chip,
        but the tracking looked good. There WAS the occasional sound of a
        heavier cut, and the spindle, by the sound of it, seemed to be slowing
        down severely. Referring to the on screen Mach Spindle Speed DRO,
        though, showed absolutely no change in speed....then I kept looking
        AFTER the tool pulled out and began the retract cycle-at this point,
        when the G32 move was over, the spindle speed dropped on the DRO(by 1 or
        2 RPM, then jumped back up.

        >
        > Is the Mach Spindle Speed DRO locked during a G32 pass?
        >
        > After the thread was done, it looked rough(the tool is getting kind of
        beat up) but by eye, anyway, it appears to have tracked fine.
        >
        > I will do more tests later today.
        >
        >
        > Andy Wander
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of David Maher
        > Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 1:43 AM
        > To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Smoothstepper thread problem?:
        >
        > Just thought Id do a bit more testing. Last time I tested a thread
        there
        > was some concern that I was not providing support for the workpiece
        and
        > the variations in depth of cut and swarth thickness were due to
        flexing
        > of the work.
        > This time I took a piece of 25mm bar and tried to cut a 3mm pitch x 55
        > mm long thread on it. The dimensions in the simple threading wizard
        were
        > initial cut depth of 0.12mm and a speed of 500rpm in top gear, which
        is
        > about 20% of maximum speed
        > Here is a photo of the result and a video. The video gets a bit sloppy
        > at the end as I dive for the estop button.
        > Photo
        >
        http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/dmbgo/12%20x%2036%20lathe%20CNC
        > %20conversion%20CQ6230/threading/?action=view¤t=IMG_0691.jpg
        > Video
        >
        http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/dmbgo/12%20x%2036%20lathe%20CNC
        > %20conversion%20CQ6230/threading/?action=view¤t=IMG_0690.mp4
        >
        > Thinking that perhaps I was a bit aggressive with my depth of cut and
        a
        > bit mean as far as power goes, I decided to try to get it right and
        > machined the same piece of bar to 23mm and adjusted the threading
        wizard
        > accordingly. I reduced the initial depth of cut to 0.06mm, changed to
        > second gear (1600rpm max) on the lathe and set the spindle speed to
        > 800rpm. I also set the "debug this run" option, as described by Art
        > earlier
        >
        > Things started out quite nicely with a nice thin curl of swarth, but
        > after about 20 of the 200 passes had finished there was a slightly
        > heavier cut. By the sound of the spindle there wasn't much speed
        > variation going on, even with the odd heavier cut. Things continued,
        > with the odd heavier cut getting heavier and heavier until eventually
        it
        > stalled the Z axis stepper, even then the spindle hardly slowed, so I
        am
        > really starting to doubt that my symptoms are related to variations in
        > spindle speed.
        > I dont think I was losing steps either until right at the end, since
        > after each heavy cut the thing synced back up and went back to taking
        > nice light cuts as programmed.
        > Here are some photos of the second attempt. You can see the damage on
        > the 1st 10 or 15mm of the thread where it started cutting in the wrong
        > place after the stepper stalled.
        >
        > This is the damaged end after the stall, you can see the swarth on the
        > tool indicating the depth of the last cuts
        >
        http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/dmbgo/12%20x%2036%20lathe%20CNC
        > %20conversion%20CQ6230/threading/?action=view¤t=IMG_0695.jpg
        >
        > This is as far as I got, the thin swarth sitting on the thread is
        > typical of the non erroneous passes
        >
        http://s452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/dmbgo/12%20x%2036%20lathe%20CNC
        > %20conversion%20CQ6230/threading/?action=view¤t=IMG_0694.jpg
        >
        > Here is the output from Debug this run data in last errors.txt, it
        goes
        > on for ages but I put it into excel and apart from the first few lines
        > while the spindle was coming up to speed the spindle speed was pretty
        > constant. The range of spindle speed variation was min 820rpm and max
        > 830rpm, aside from the start of the program when it was coming up to
        > speed.
        >
        > I have pasted the spindle speed data at the very end of this post
        after
        > Georges last post if you are interested.
        >
        >
        >
        > Regards
        >
        >
        >
        > David Maher
        >
        >
        >
        >
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