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Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Using windows XP

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  • Lester Caine
    ... See my other post ;) There is NOTHING illegal about using a license you hold as long as it is only active on one machine. There is also nothing illegal
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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      FocusKnobs wrote:
      > Wow! Looks like I really stirred up a hornets' nest. <g>
      >
      > Guys, I never said that it wasn't physically POSSIBLE to transfer an OEM
      > license to another machine. Obviously, there are many, many ways to do
      > that.
      >
      > My point is that it is not LEGAL to do so. There has been some very bad
      > advice given here about transferring an OEM license to another machine.
      > Yes, it can be done. I just want everyone to be fully aware that this IS
      > illegal, and anyone who gives advice on HOW to do it is promoting an
      > illegal act.

      See my other post ;)

      There is NOTHING illegal about using a license you hold as long as it is
      only active on one machine.
      There is also nothing illegal about buying a basic 'vista' license and
      then installing W2k on the machine if your software will not run on
      vista ( and I have some software which WILL only run on W2k and there is
      currently no alternative as the company went bust! ).
      What IS currently illegal is NOT allowing us to buy a vista license and
      install an existing copy of XP for the same reason. M$'s 'downgrade'
      option is currently being looked at in court, and may well be illegal,
      but the fact that we need a unique license key to install a copy of XP
      actually breaks a previous court ruling on this! The court has already
      ruled that it perfectly legal to buy a current license but install an
      older copy of windows IF THAT IS REQUIRED TO RUN YOUR SOFTWARE. M$ can't
      FORCE us to upgrade our other legally held software, they have to
      provide a means that we can continue to use it.

      W2k may no longer be supported, but it is not illegal to use it ;)

      --
      Lester Caine - G8HFL
      -----------------------------
      Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
      L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
      EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
      Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
      Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
    • himykabibble
      Lester, That may be true in the UK or EU, but it is most certainly NOT true in the US. Regards, Ray L.
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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        Lester,

        That may be true in the UK or EU, but it is most certainly NOT true in the US.

        Regards,
        Ray L.


        --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, Lester Caine <lester@...> wrote:
        >
        > FocusKnobs wrote:
        > > Wow! Looks like I really stirred up a hornets' nest. <g>
        > >
        > > Guys, I never said that it wasn't physically POSSIBLE to transfer an OEM
        > > license to another machine. Obviously, there are many, many ways to do
        > > that.
        > >
        > > My point is that it is not LEGAL to do so. There has been some very bad
        > > advice given here about transferring an OEM license to another machine.
        > > Yes, it can be done. I just want everyone to be fully aware that this IS
        > > illegal, and anyone who gives advice on HOW to do it is promoting an
        > > illegal act.
        >
        > See my other post ;)
        >
        > There is NOTHING illegal about using a license you hold as long as it is
        > only active on one machine.
        > There is also nothing illegal about buying a basic 'vista' license and
        > then installing W2k on the machine if your software will not run on
        > vista ( and I have some software which WILL only run on W2k and there is
        > currently no alternative as the company went bust! ).
        > What IS currently illegal is NOT allowing us to buy a vista license and
        > install an existing copy of XP for the same reason. M$'s 'downgrade'
        > option is currently being looked at in court, and may well be illegal,
        > but the fact that we need a unique license key to install a copy of XP
        > actually breaks a previous court ruling on this! The court has already
        > ruled that it perfectly legal to buy a current license but install an
        > older copy of windows IF THAT IS REQUIRED TO RUN YOUR SOFTWARE. M$ can't
        > FORCE us to upgrade our other legally held software, they have to
        > provide a means that we can continue to use it.
        >
        > W2k may no longer be supported, but it is not illegal to use it ;)
        >
        > --
        > Lester Caine - G8HFL
        > -----------------------------
        > Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
        > L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
        > EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
        > Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
        > Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
        >
      • Andy Wander
        I fail to see how calling Microsoft, telling them the truth about what I did(replaced motherboard) and getting a new code is illegal.
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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          I fail to see how calling Microsoft, telling them the truth about what I did(replaced motherboard) and getting a new code is illegal.

          ______________________________________
          Andy Wander

          -----Original Message-----
          From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of FocusKnobs
          Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:45 AM
          To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Using windows XP

          Wow! Looks like I really stirred up a hornets' nest. <g>

          Guys, I never said that it wasn't physically POSSIBLE to transfer an OEM
          license to another machine. Obviously, there are many, many ways to do
          that.

          My point is that it is not LEGAL to do so. There has been some very bad
          advice given here about transferring an OEM license to another machine.
          Yes, it can be done. I just want everyone to be fully aware that this IS
          illegal, and anyone who gives advice on HOW to do it is promoting an
          illegal act.

          Lou


          -----Original Message-----
          From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave Halliday
          Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:59 PM
          To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Using windows XP

          I tell MSFT that I had to replace the motherboard - that has worked so
          far
          for me (three machines).

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of FocusKnobs
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:45 AM
          > To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] Using windows XP
          >
          > No, if you have OEM disks, you cannot phone MS. OEM disks are sold for
          > use with the machine with which it is bundled and cannot legally be
          > transferred to a second machine. I.e., when the original machine dies,
          > the OEM license dies with it.
          >
          > Lou
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Prescott
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:37 AM
          > To: mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] Using windows XP
          >
          > I think you are running into problems with WGA Windows
          > Geniune Advantage
          >
          > that is installed in XP SP3.
          >
          > WGA phones home to MS for a license check. If you have OEM disks you
          > may be able to clear the problem with a phone call to MS.
          >
          > I rebuild a lot of old systems / reload OSes and just stop at
          > SP2. All
          > these systems are behind a firewall and use Avast antivirus.
          >
          > Have encountered no problems with this configuration for years.
          >
          > Of course I could be wrong and lucky too
          >
          > Hugh
          > Altairs to i7s
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Lester Caine wrote:
          > > I'll copy this around a few places, but hopefully it will
          > save people
          > > some time. It's just cost me the best part of two days!
          > >
          > > Windows XP license strings are linked to the original disk,
          > and in the
          >
          > > early days you could not even install when using a newer
          > disk with an
          > > old code. I've got a few sites now where the machines are getting a
          > bit
          > > tired and at the end of last week one went tits up, so time
          > for a new
          > > box rather than simply replacing the hardware internally. Since the
          > site
          > > has two machines I just got a couple of new boxes together
          > and simply
          > > installed for the original disk set - or so I thought!
          > >
          > > One works fine, and dumping the data from the old disk -
          > everything is
          >
          > > fine and it even accesses the internet via the main machine ...
          > > The main machine was OK until I started to run the latest
          > updates, and
          >
          > > then it got into the state where it refuses to 'update' because it
          > can't
          > > authenticate itself ( I'm sure some people will have seen
          > it - windows
          >
          > > advantage tool tells you to buy a legal copy! )
          > >
          > > Last night I wiped the machine and started again ... but with the
          > XPsp1
          > > disk rater than an sp2 disk that had been put in the file
          > obviously by
          >
          > > mistake. Everything ran smoothly and a surprising 4 hours
          > later ( it
          > > normally takes longer from sp1 ) I have a fully functional machine
          > again!
          > >
          > > So make sure you keep the right disk with your older windows license
          > keys!
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



          ------------------------------------

          www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links





          ------------------------------------

          www.machsupport.com - Web site AccessYahoo! Groups Links



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        • Dean Angevine, Fox Prints
          I think some people are confusing OEM installation disks with the recovery disks that some big OEM s like HP & Dell. Several posts have alluded to this
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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            I think some people are confusing "OEM" installation disks with the
            "recovery" disks that some big OEM's like HP & Dell. Several posts have
            alluded to this but not stated it clearly. The recovery disks are just
            hdd image disks and will not install properly on systems that are not
            identical in hardware to the system that the image was produced on/for.
            The image disk is a cloning of an original master system & these usually
            are only supplied with the "take it as it comes" models from big box
            stores, custom systems usually come with an installation disk that can
            be used on any system.
            Also, the difference between a retail installation disk & an OEM
            installation disk is that the OEM disk does not include any tech support
            from Microsoft where a retail version does. The OEM can be any joe-blow
            computer builder working at the kitchen table, but if they use an OEM
            copy they are required to provide tech support to the end user, not MS.
            This doesn't mean the end user or the OEM service tech can't call MS to
            get a new activation key.

            rrschmid wrote:
            >
            >
            > Gents,
            > I think the difference here may be the difference between a copy of XP
            > that is purchased directly from Microsoft (without all of the crapware
            > that the OEM's put into their versions) versus the version of XP that
            > is supplied with a new Dell or HP computer.
            >
            > If you have the software that you purchased from MS you can
            > install/reinstall on any hardware that is compatible (32 bit to 32
            > bit, 64 bit to 64 bit) - but only one computer at a time. However if
            > you try to use OEM disks (with crapware) that came with your Dell and
            > try to install the OS on an Asus, Intel, or other vendors motherboard
            > the install most likely will fail because the specific vendors
            > hardware was not detected.
            >
            > You MAY be able to use the OEM license string from an OEM install (but
            > not the disks) with a Microsoft version of XP. You just need to make
            > sure that the license is not currently being used or is activated.
            >
            > I think the issue here is what version of the OS software one is using
            > to install from. My 2 cents worth.
            > Cheers,
            > Rich Schmidt
            >
            > --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:mach1mach2cnc%40yahoogroups.com>, Andy Wander <awander@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Ray:
            > >
            > > Well, it says "HARDWARE, Ray, not "The Same Hardware"
            > >
            > > And "the COMPUTER", not "ONLY THE COMPUTER IT WAS SOLD WITH"
            > >
            > > My own opinion is that "any reasonable person" would think that the
            > agreement, like most legal verbiage, is so convoluted and worded so
            > archaically that it is not designed to be understood by "any normal
            > person", and in fact, means exactly what a court of law would say it
            > means-no more, no less.
            > >
            > > Your point is clear-but it is YOUR OPINION only. Unless you are an
            > expert on contract law?
            > >
            > >
            > > And what is so against the "spirit" of the agreement, if you use ONE
            > COPY of the software ONLY, no matter what machine it is installed on?
            > >
            > > ______________________________________
            > > Andy Wander
            >
            >
          • vrsculptor@hotmail.com
            I have been told that you can do the following: 1. Find any dead PC (trash pile, garage sale..) with a windows Genuine advantage sticker on it. 2. Load XP on
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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              I have been told that you can do the following:
              1. Find any dead PC (trash pile, garage sale..) with a windows Genuine advantage sticker on it.
              2. Load XP on your new system using an OEM disk. You cannot use a system restore disk. Use the key on the dead system's advantage disk.
              3. Authorize the system online and you are off and running.

              Back when MS had a fight with system resellers who wiped and reloaded used machines for resale using the attached stickers and generic OEM disk. They claimed it was in violation of the agreement. There was a scuffle and MS backed down. I don't know on what basis.

              Roger
            • Lester Caine
              ... THAT was one of the court cases in the *US* that set the rules - or so I understand. But in that case the legal position was - why is someone who is simply
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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                vrsculptor@... wrote:
                > I have been told that you can do the following:
                > 1. Find any dead PC (trash pile, garage sale..) with a windows Genuine advantage sticker on it.
                > 2. Load XP on your new system using an OEM disk. You cannot use a system restore disk. Use the key on the dead system's advantage disk.
                > 3. Authorize the system online and you are off and running.
                >
                > Back when MS had a fight with system resellers who wiped and reloaded used machines for resale using the attached stickers and generic OEM disk. They claimed it was in violation of the agreement. There was a scuffle and MS backed down. I don't know on what basis.

                THAT was one of the court cases in the *US* that set the rules - or so I
                understand. But in that case the legal position was - why is someone who
                is simply having to rebuild the machine because a virus has destroyed it
                and different to a third party doing the same thing. Often rebuilding
                from the supplied recovery disk simply did not work and one had to use
                an alternative. I think what also came in here was 'repossession'
                situations or bankruptcies? Just because something is repossessed does
                not prevent it from being sold on complete with it's software.

                --
                Lester Caine - G8HFL
                -----------------------------
                Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
                L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
                EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
                Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
                Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
              • himykabibble
                Lester, When you buy a retail Windows license, you can move it from machine to machine as many times as you like, the *only* restriction being that it can only
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 1, 2009
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                  Lester,

                  When you buy a retail Windows license, you can move it from machine to machine as many times as you like, the *only* restriction being that it can only be installed on a single machine at any one time. But, when you buy a packaged PC with an "OEM" license, the Windows license and the hardware are tied together, and *cannot* be separated. I'm not aware of *any* court ruling in the US that would invalidate this. This is a restriction MS puts on the OEM license in exhange for a LARGE price-break to the OEM, and, therefore, the end-user. There are other FAR more restrictive license terms on other software, like the multi-million dollar CAD/EDA tools I deal with. Those are VERY often licensed to a single machine, and moving the license often involves a hefty additional fee.

                  If you have a machine with the license key label glued to it, you absoutely can re-load Windows onto *that* machine using *that* key, and that WILL be an OEM key. But you cannot *legally* use that key on any other machine. That would be a violation of the license agreement. You may get away with it, but it IS a violation of the license.

                  I have always found it disconcerting that so many people have always looked at software licensing from the standpoint of what they can get away with, rather than what's "right", and what was implicitly agreed to when the software was purchased. What is becoming of ethics and personal integrity?

                  Regards,
                  Ray L.


                  --- In mach1mach2cnc@yahoogroups.com, Lester Caine <lester@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > vrsculptor@... wrote:
                  > > I have been told that you can do the following:
                  > > 1. Find any dead PC (trash pile, garage sale..) with a windows Genuine advantage sticker on it.
                  > > 2. Load XP on your new system using an OEM disk. You cannot use a system restore disk. Use the key on the dead system's advantage disk.
                  > > 3. Authorize the system online and you are off and running.
                  > >
                  > > Back when MS had a fight with system resellers who wiped and reloaded used machines for resale using the attached stickers and generic OEM disk. They claimed it was in violation of the agreement. There was a scuffle and MS backed down. I don't know on what basis.
                  >
                  > THAT was one of the court cases in the *US* that set the rules - or so I
                  > understand. But in that case the legal position was - why is someone who
                  > is simply having to rebuild the machine because a virus has destroyed it
                  > and different to a third party doing the same thing. Often rebuilding
                  > from the supplied recovery disk simply did not work and one had to use
                  > an alternative. I think what also came in here was 'repossession'
                  > situations or bankruptcies? Just because something is repossessed does
                  > not prevent it from being sold on complete with it's software.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Lester Caine - G8HFL
                  > -----------------------------
                  > Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
                  > L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
                  > EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
                  > Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
                  > Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
                  >
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