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Re: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

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  • Michael Matthews
    MessageYes, my mast hast the chickenhead assembly. I was told by the local MacGregor dealer that the sails I have were only used early on. They re designed
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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      Yes, my mast hast the chickenhead assembly. I was told by the local
      MacGregor dealer that the sails I have were only used early on. They're
      designed with full battens to improve the performance but they dropped
      them after the first year because of the problems that I'm having, difficulty
      tacking in light winds.

      The battens are only part of the problem. The sail shape is the real issue.
      My sail does not look anything like what you see on the cover of the
      brochure (http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/). The sail on the brochure
      is the standard triangular shape you see on most sloops. The sail I
      have is much more "boxy". The top goes back almost perpendicular
      to the mast and the trailing edge is a good 18 inches behind the
      backstay. The MacGregor "M" on the sail doesn't even clear the
      backstay!
       
      When I tack I have to get 18 inches of the top three battens around
      the backstay. This might work okay in heavy winds. But in the light
      winds that I had I was having to let out the main sheet all the way and
      then get up and jump up and down on the end of the boom.
       
      I'm guessing that unless you have the exact same sail you aren't
      going to have this much of a problem.
       
      Good luck!
       
      Michael
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:40 AM
      Subject: RE: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

      Mike,
       
      Now ya got me thinkin'! I just sent my main out to Sailcare for reconditioning, it's also a fully battened main. Haven't had it up yet. How bad was the interference of the main with the backstay? Does your 19' have the standard Macgregor chickenhead up top of the mast? The chickenhead assembly puts the backstay about 5" back from the masthead. I'm hopin' that's enough to clear!
       
      Tom '92 19'
      (Still gotta get a name!)
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Michael Matthews [mailto:mike_matthews@...]
      Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:10 AM
      To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

      Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
      and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
      light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not new
      to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
      sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
      Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
      and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.

      However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
      boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
      to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever done
      that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
      to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
      minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.

      We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
      trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had much
      wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
      the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
      drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a full
      batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
      up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of wind
      I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just refused
      to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just didn't
      seem to produce any drive at all.

      So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
      into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind patterns
      and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
      that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a bigger
      jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.

      Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly appreciated!
      I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better sailing
      performance out of either myself or the boat.

      Take care,
      Michael Matthews
      1992 MacGregor 19'


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    • Glenn Dubin
      Mike, She s got to have more jib captain! Even with moderate winds, your main will help to push your boat BACKWARDS. I have little experience on big boats,
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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        Mike,

        She's got to have more jib captain! Even with moderate winds, your
        main will help to push your boat BACKWARDS. I have little experience
        on big boats, but lots on "small trailerables" (14',16' and 2
        19's). Most "small" trailerables have a flat hull with a retractable
        keel or center board, this makes them suseptable to being pushed as
        the hull alone does little to direct the boat and act as a lever. My
        19 likes to go backwards in any wind without a good sizeable jib.
        Your non-standard main may be overpowering the small OEM jib. It
        took me a couple of tries to get this down. I did purchase one ofthe
        Minney's 150 jibs, from a member of this group and it made all the
        difference. See if Minneys still sells this sail, it works very well
        with the 19. I have even sailed with just the jib, works great!

        One other suggestion would be to raise the center board slightly to
        bring it's leverage point further back, in light winds.

        Otherwise keep trying, the 19 is a fine boat to sail, not a racer but
        still gobs of fun in light or moderate winds.

        Glenn
        (got no name for my 19 yet either)

        --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Matthews"
        <mike_matthews@c...> wrote:
        > Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
        > and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
        > light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not
        new
        > to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
        > sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
        > Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
        > and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.
        >
        > However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
        > boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
        > to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever
        done
        > that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
        > to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
        > minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.
        >
        > We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
        > trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had
        much
        > wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
        > the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
        > drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a
        full
        > batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
        > up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of
        wind
        > I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just
        refused
        > to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just
        didn't
        > seem to produce any drive at all.
        >
        > So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
        > into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind
        patterns
        > and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
        > that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a
        bigger
        > jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.
        >
        > Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly
        appreciated!
        > I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better
        sailing
        > performance out of either myself or the boat.
        >
        > Take care,
        > Michael Matthews
        > 1992 MacGregor 19'
      • Michael Matthews
        Great! Thanks for the advice. This is the first boat I ve ever owned with brand new sails and it looks like the first thing I m going to do is put them back in
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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          Great! Thanks for the advice. This is the first boat I've
          ever owned with brand new sails and it looks like the
          first thing I'm going to do is put them back in the garage.
          Oh well....

          This is really helpful information and it makes me feel a
          lot better. I'll start hunting for a bigger jib and a smaller
          main. I e-mailed Minneys about the jibs but never heard
          back from them. They were listed on their website a couple
          of weeks ago, but the date on the web page is from July.
          I'll bet they're all gone.

          Anyone have any lightly used sails they'd like to sell please
          drop me an e-mail at mike_matthews@....

          Take care,
          Michael

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Glenn Dubin" <giandubin@...>
          To: <macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:03 PM
          Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: Sailing a light trailerable


          > Mike,
          >
          > She's got to have more jib captain! Even with moderate winds, your
          > main will help to push your boat BACKWARDS. I have little experience
          > on big boats, but lots on "small trailerables" (14',16' and 2
          > 19's). Most "small" trailerables have a flat hull with a retractable
          > keel or center board, this makes them suseptable to being pushed as
          > the hull alone does little to direct the boat and act as a lever. My
          > 19 likes to go backwards in any wind without a good sizeable jib.
          > Your non-standard main may be overpowering the small OEM jib. It
          > took me a couple of tries to get this down. I did purchase one ofthe
          > Minney's 150 jibs, from a member of this group and it made all the
          > difference. See if Minneys still sells this sail, it works very well
          > with the 19. I have even sailed with just the jib, works great!
          >
          > One other suggestion would be to raise the center board slightly to
          > bring it's leverage point further back, in light winds.
          >
          > Otherwise keep trying, the 19 is a fine boat to sail, not a racer but
          > still gobs of fun in light or moderate winds.
          >
          > Glenn
          > (got no name for my 19 yet either)
          >
          > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Matthews"
          > <mike_matthews@c...> wrote:
          > > Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
          > > and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
          > > light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not
          > new
          > > to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
          > > sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
          > > Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
          > > and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.
          > >
          > > However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
          > > boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
          > > to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever
          > done
          > > that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
          > > to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
          > > minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.
          > >
          > > We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
          > > trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had
          > much
          > > wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
          > > the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
          > > drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a
          > full
          > > batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
          > > up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of
          > wind
          > > I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just
          > refused
          > > to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just
          > didn't
          > > seem to produce any drive at all.
          > >
          > > So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
          > > into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind
          > patterns
          > > and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
          > > that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a
          > bigger
          > > jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.
          > >
          > > Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly
          > appreciated!
          > > I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better
          > sailing
          > > performance out of either myself or the boat.
          > >
          > > Take care,
          > > Michael Matthews
          > > 1992 MacGregor 19'
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > macgregor19sailboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • mike fortuna
          I ll give you some more suggestions when I get back about alternative jibs like furling, recutting, etc but I did notice in some catalog like Hobie s that they
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 30, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I'll give you some more suggestions when I get back
            about alternative jibs like furling, recutting, etc
            but I did notice in some catalog like Hobie's that
            they make jib battens with small hinges for solving
            the problem of tacking when the battens overlap the
            mast. Mike
            --- Michael Matthews <mike_matthews@...>
            wrote:
            > MessageYes, my mast hast the chickenhead assembly. I
            > was told by the local
            > MacGregor dealer that the sails I have were only
            > used early on. They're
            > designed with full battens to improve the
            > performance but they dropped
            > them after the first year because of the problems
            > that I'm having, difficulty
            > tacking in light winds.
            >
            > The battens are only part of the problem. The sail
            > shape is the real issue.
            > My sail does not look anything like what you see on
            > the cover of the
            > brochure (http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/). The sail
            > on the brochure
            > is the standard triangular shape you see on most
            > sloops. The sail I
            > have is much more "boxy". The top goes back almost
            > perpendicular
            > to the mast and the trailing edge is a good 18
            > inches behind the
            > backstay. The MacGregor "M" on the sail doesn't even
            > clear the
            > backstay!
            >
            > When I tack I have to get 18 inches of the top three
            > battens around
            > the backstay. This might work okay in heavy winds.
            > But in the light
            > winds that I had I was having to let out the main
            > sheet all the way and
            > then get up and jump up and down on the end of the
            > boom.
            >
            > I'm guessing that unless you have the exact same
            > sail you aren't
            > going to have this much of a problem.
            >
            > Good luck!
            >
            > Michael
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Tom Garmon
            > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:40 AM
            > Subject: RE: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a
            > light trailerable
            >
            >
            > Mike,
            >
            > Now ya got me thinkin'! I just sent my main out to
            > Sailcare for reconditioning, it's also a fully
            > battened main. Haven't had it up yet. How bad was
            > the interference of the main with the backstay? Does
            > your 19' have the standard Macgregor chickenhead up
            > top of the mast? The chickenhead assembly puts the
            > backstay about 5" back from the masthead. I'm hopin'
            > that's enough to clear!
            >
            > Tom '92 19'
            > (Still gotta get a name!)
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Michael Matthews
            > [mailto:mike_matthews@...]
            > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:10 AM
            > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light
            > trailerable
            >
            >
            > Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake
            > last weekend
            > and learned one important fact. I have no idea
            > how to sail a small,
            > light trailerable! What was even more
            > frustrating is that I'm not new
            > to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger
            > boats that we've
            > sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean
            > outside the Golden
            > Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three
            > of us, myself, my mom
            > and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in
            > the bay.
            >
            > However, that didn't seem to make a difference.
            > We launched the
            > boat and motored out to the biggest section of
            > the lake. I attempted
            > to raise the main and lost the halyard right
            > away. I've never ever done
            > that before! The nice thing about a trailerable
            > is that we were able
            > to lower the mast on the water and have it back
            > up in less than 10
            > minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to
            > the top.
            >
            > We spent most of the next few hours drifting
            > around sideways and
            > trying to find the wind with the ole' iron
            > spinnaker. We never had much
            > wind that day and maybe I can use that for an
            > excuse. I don't think
            > the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and
            > the boat mostly just
            > drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track
            > worth a damn. I have a full
            > batten main with a generous pocket near the top
            > that wanted to hang
            > up on the backstay at every single tack. In
            > fact, with the lack of wind
            > I was unable to get the sail across a few times.
            > The battens just refused
            > to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came
            > with the boat just didn't
            > seem to produce any drive at all.
            >
            > So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down
            > to the salt water
            > into an area that I'm familiar with and where I
            > know the wind patterns
            > and know how the boat should point and perform.
            > I'm already thinking
            > that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the
            > battens and get a bigger
            > jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the
            > bow and less main.
            >
            > Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would
            > be greatly appreciated!
            > I could really use some pointers. I must find a
            > way to get better sailing
            > performance out of either myself or the boat.
            >
            > Take care,
            > Michael Matthews
            > 1992 MacGregor 19'
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
            > to:
            > macgregor19sailboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
            > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
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            > ADVERTISEMENT
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            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            > Terms of Service.
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