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RE: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

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  • Tom Garmon
    Mike, Now ya got me thinkin ! I just sent my main out to Sailcare for reconditioning, it s also a fully battened main. Haven t had it up yet. How bad was the
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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      Mike,
       
      Now ya got me thinkin'! I just sent my main out to Sailcare for reconditioning, it's also a fully battened main. Haven't had it up yet. How bad was the interference of the main with the backstay? Does your 19' have the standard Macgregor chickenhead up top of the mast? The chickenhead assembly puts the backstay about 5" back from the masthead. I'm hopin' that's enough to clear!
       
      Tom '92 19'
      (Still gotta get a name!)
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Michael Matthews [mailto:mike_matthews@...]
      Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:10 AM
      To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

      Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
      and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
      light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not new
      to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
      sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
      Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
      and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.

      However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
      boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
      to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever done
      that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
      to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
      minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.

      We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
      trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had much
      wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
      the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
      drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a full
      batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
      up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of wind
      I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just refused
      to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just didn't
      seem to produce any drive at all.

      So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
      into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind patterns
      and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
      that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a bigger
      jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.

      Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly appreciated!
      I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better sailing
      performance out of either myself or the boat.

      Take care,
      Michael Matthews
      1992 MacGregor 19'


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    • Michael Matthews
      MessageYes, my mast hast the chickenhead assembly. I was told by the local MacGregor dealer that the sails I have were only used early on. They re designed
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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        Yes, my mast hast the chickenhead assembly. I was told by the local
        MacGregor dealer that the sails I have were only used early on. They're
        designed with full battens to improve the performance but they dropped
        them after the first year because of the problems that I'm having, difficulty
        tacking in light winds.

        The battens are only part of the problem. The sail shape is the real issue.
        My sail does not look anything like what you see on the cover of the
        brochure (http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/). The sail on the brochure
        is the standard triangular shape you see on most sloops. The sail I
        have is much more "boxy". The top goes back almost perpendicular
        to the mast and the trailing edge is a good 18 inches behind the
        backstay. The MacGregor "M" on the sail doesn't even clear the
        backstay!
         
        When I tack I have to get 18 inches of the top three battens around
        the backstay. This might work okay in heavy winds. But in the light
        winds that I had I was having to let out the main sheet all the way and
        then get up and jump up and down on the end of the boom.
         
        I'm guessing that unless you have the exact same sail you aren't
        going to have this much of a problem.
         
        Good luck!
         
        Michael
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:40 AM
        Subject: RE: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

        Mike,
         
        Now ya got me thinkin'! I just sent my main out to Sailcare for reconditioning, it's also a fully battened main. Haven't had it up yet. How bad was the interference of the main with the backstay? Does your 19' have the standard Macgregor chickenhead up top of the mast? The chickenhead assembly puts the backstay about 5" back from the masthead. I'm hopin' that's enough to clear!
         
        Tom '92 19'
        (Still gotta get a name!)
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Michael Matthews [mailto:mike_matthews@...]
        Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:10 AM
        To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light trailerable

        Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
        and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
        light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not new
        to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
        sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
        Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
        and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.

        However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
        boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
        to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever done
        that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
        to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
        minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.

        We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
        trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had much
        wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
        the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
        drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a full
        batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
        up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of wind
        I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just refused
        to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just didn't
        seem to produce any drive at all.

        So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
        into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind patterns
        and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
        that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a bigger
        jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.

        Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly appreciated!
        I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better sailing
        performance out of either myself or the boat.

        Take care,
        Michael Matthews
        1992 MacGregor 19'


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        macgregor19sailboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      • Glenn Dubin
        Mike, She s got to have more jib captain! Even with moderate winds, your main will help to push your boat BACKWARDS. I have little experience on big boats,
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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          Mike,

          She's got to have more jib captain! Even with moderate winds, your
          main will help to push your boat BACKWARDS. I have little experience
          on big boats, but lots on "small trailerables" (14',16' and 2
          19's). Most "small" trailerables have a flat hull with a retractable
          keel or center board, this makes them suseptable to being pushed as
          the hull alone does little to direct the boat and act as a lever. My
          19 likes to go backwards in any wind without a good sizeable jib.
          Your non-standard main may be overpowering the small OEM jib. It
          took me a couple of tries to get this down. I did purchase one ofthe
          Minney's 150 jibs, from a member of this group and it made all the
          difference. See if Minneys still sells this sail, it works very well
          with the 19. I have even sailed with just the jib, works great!

          One other suggestion would be to raise the center board slightly to
          bring it's leverage point further back, in light winds.

          Otherwise keep trying, the 19 is a fine boat to sail, not a racer but
          still gobs of fun in light or moderate winds.

          Glenn
          (got no name for my 19 yet either)

          --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Matthews"
          <mike_matthews@c...> wrote:
          > Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
          > and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
          > light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not
          new
          > to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
          > sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
          > Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
          > and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.
          >
          > However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
          > boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
          > to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever
          done
          > that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
          > to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
          > minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.
          >
          > We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
          > trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had
          much
          > wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
          > the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
          > drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a
          full
          > batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
          > up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of
          wind
          > I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just
          refused
          > to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just
          didn't
          > seem to produce any drive at all.
          >
          > So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
          > into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind
          patterns
          > and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
          > that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a
          bigger
          > jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.
          >
          > Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly
          appreciated!
          > I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better
          sailing
          > performance out of either myself or the boat.
          >
          > Take care,
          > Michael Matthews
          > 1992 MacGregor 19'
        • Michael Matthews
          Great! Thanks for the advice. This is the first boat I ve ever owned with brand new sails and it looks like the first thing I m going to do is put them back in
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 28, 2003
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            Great! Thanks for the advice. This is the first boat I've
            ever owned with brand new sails and it looks like the
            first thing I'm going to do is put them back in the garage.
            Oh well....

            This is really helpful information and it makes me feel a
            lot better. I'll start hunting for a bigger jib and a smaller
            main. I e-mailed Minneys about the jibs but never heard
            back from them. They were listed on their website a couple
            of weeks ago, but the date on the web page is from July.
            I'll bet they're all gone.

            Anyone have any lightly used sails they'd like to sell please
            drop me an e-mail at mike_matthews@....

            Take care,
            Michael

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Glenn Dubin" <giandubin@...>
            To: <macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:03 PM
            Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: Sailing a light trailerable


            > Mike,
            >
            > She's got to have more jib captain! Even with moderate winds, your
            > main will help to push your boat BACKWARDS. I have little experience
            > on big boats, but lots on "small trailerables" (14',16' and 2
            > 19's). Most "small" trailerables have a flat hull with a retractable
            > keel or center board, this makes them suseptable to being pushed as
            > the hull alone does little to direct the boat and act as a lever. My
            > 19 likes to go backwards in any wind without a good sizeable jib.
            > Your non-standard main may be overpowering the small OEM jib. It
            > took me a couple of tries to get this down. I did purchase one ofthe
            > Minney's 150 jibs, from a member of this group and it made all the
            > difference. See if Minneys still sells this sail, it works very well
            > with the 19. I have even sailed with just the jib, works great!
            >
            > One other suggestion would be to raise the center board slightly to
            > bring it's leverage point further back, in light winds.
            >
            > Otherwise keep trying, the 19 is a fine boat to sail, not a racer but
            > still gobs of fun in light or moderate winds.
            >
            > Glenn
            > (got no name for my 19 yet either)
            >
            > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Matthews"
            > <mike_matthews@c...> wrote:
            > > Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake last weekend
            > > and learned one important fact. I have no idea how to sail a small,
            > > light trailerable! What was even more frustrating is that I'm not
            > new
            > > to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger boats that we've
            > > sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean outside the Golden
            > > Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three of us, myself, my mom
            > > and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in the bay.
            > >
            > > However, that didn't seem to make a difference. We launched the
            > > boat and motored out to the biggest section of the lake. I attempted
            > > to raise the main and lost the halyard right away. I've never ever
            > done
            > > that before! The nice thing about a trailerable is that we were able
            > > to lower the mast on the water and have it back up in less than 10
            > > minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to the top.
            > >
            > > We spent most of the next few hours drifting around sideways and
            > > trying to find the wind with the ole' iron spinnaker. We never had
            > much
            > > wind that day and maybe I can use that for an excuse. I don't think
            > > the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and the boat mostly just
            > > drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track worth a damn. I have a
            > full
            > > batten main with a generous pocket near the top that wanted to hang
            > > up on the backstay at every single tack. In fact, with the lack of
            > wind
            > > I was unable to get the sail across a few times. The battens just
            > refused
            > > to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came with the boat just
            > didn't
            > > seem to produce any drive at all.
            > >
            > > So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down to the salt water
            > > into an area that I'm familiar with and where I know the wind
            > patterns
            > > and know how the boat should point and perform. I'm already thinking
            > > that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the battens and get a
            > bigger
            > > jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the bow and less main.
            > >
            > > Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would be greatly
            > appreciated!
            > > I could really use some pointers. I must find a way to get better
            > sailing
            > > performance out of either myself or the boat.
            > >
            > > Take care,
            > > Michael Matthews
            > > 1992 MacGregor 19'
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > macgregor19sailboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • mike fortuna
            I ll give you some more suggestions when I get back about alternative jibs like furling, recutting, etc but I did notice in some catalog like Hobie s that they
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 30, 2003
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              I'll give you some more suggestions when I get back
              about alternative jibs like furling, recutting, etc
              but I did notice in some catalog like Hobie's that
              they make jib battens with small hinges for solving
              the problem of tacking when the battens overlap the
              mast. Mike
              --- Michael Matthews <mike_matthews@...>
              wrote:
              > MessageYes, my mast hast the chickenhead assembly. I
              > was told by the local
              > MacGregor dealer that the sails I have were only
              > used early on. They're
              > designed with full battens to improve the
              > performance but they dropped
              > them after the first year because of the problems
              > that I'm having, difficulty
              > tacking in light winds.
              >
              > The battens are only part of the problem. The sail
              > shape is the real issue.
              > My sail does not look anything like what you see on
              > the cover of the
              > brochure (http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/). The sail
              > on the brochure
              > is the standard triangular shape you see on most
              > sloops. The sail I
              > have is much more "boxy". The top goes back almost
              > perpendicular
              > to the mast and the trailing edge is a good 18
              > inches behind the
              > backstay. The MacGregor "M" on the sail doesn't even
              > clear the
              > backstay!
              >
              > When I tack I have to get 18 inches of the top three
              > battens around
              > the backstay. This might work okay in heavy winds.
              > But in the light
              > winds that I had I was having to let out the main
              > sheet all the way and
              > then get up and jump up and down on the end of the
              > boom.
              >
              > I'm guessing that unless you have the exact same
              > sail you aren't
              > going to have this much of a problem.
              >
              > Good luck!
              >
              > Michael
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Tom Garmon
              > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:40 AM
              > Subject: RE: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a
              > light trailerable
              >
              >
              > Mike,
              >
              > Now ya got me thinkin'! I just sent my main out to
              > Sailcare for reconditioning, it's also a fully
              > battened main. Haven't had it up yet. How bad was
              > the interference of the main with the backstay? Does
              > your 19' have the standard Macgregor chickenhead up
              > top of the mast? The chickenhead assembly puts the
              > backstay about 5" back from the masthead. I'm hopin'
              > that's enough to clear!
              >
              > Tom '92 19'
              > (Still gotta get a name!)
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Michael Matthews
              > [mailto:mike_matthews@...]
              > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:10 AM
              > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Sailing a light
              > trailerable
              >
              >
              > Okay, I took my "new" MacGregor up to the lake
              > last weekend
              > and learned one important fact. I have no idea
              > how to sail a small,
              > light trailerable! What was even more
              > frustrating is that I'm not new
              > to sailing. My family has owned heavier, bigger
              > boats that we've
              > sailed all over San Francisco Bay and the ocean
              > outside the Golden
              > Gate since I was a little kid. Right now three
              > of us, myself, my mom
              > and my dad all own sailboats sitting in slips in
              > the bay.
              >
              > However, that didn't seem to make a difference.
              > We launched the
              > boat and motored out to the biggest section of
              > the lake. I attempted
              > to raise the main and lost the halyard right
              > away. I've never ever done
              > that before! The nice thing about a trailerable
              > is that we were able
              > to lower the mast on the water and have it back
              > up in less than 10
              > minutes. Nobody had to ride the bosuns chair to
              > the top.
              >
              > We spent most of the next few hours drifting
              > around sideways and
              > trying to find the wind with the ole' iron
              > spinnaker. We never had much
              > wind that day and maybe I can use that for an
              > excuse. I don't think
              > the wind every topped 5-8 knots (if that) and
              > the boat mostly just
              > drifted sideways. I couldn't get it to track
              > worth a damn. I have a full
              > batten main with a generous pocket near the top
              > that wanted to hang
              > up on the backstay at every single tack. In
              > fact, with the lack of wind
              > I was unable to get the sail across a few times.
              > The battens just refused
              > to clear the backstay. The tiny jib that came
              > with the boat just didn't
              > seem to produce any drive at all.
              >
              > So for now I surrender. I'm taking the boat down
              > to the salt water
              > into an area that I'm familiar with and where I
              > know the wind patterns
              > and know how the boat should point and perform.
              > I'm already thinking
              > that I'd like to cut the main down, remove the
              > battens and get a bigger
              > jib. She feels like she wants more drive on the
              > bow and less main.
              >
              > Any suggestions, thoughts, random musing would
              > be greatly appreciated!
              > I could really use some pointers. I must find a
              > way to get better sailing
              > performance out of either myself or the boat.
              >
              > Take care,
              > Michael Matthews
              > 1992 MacGregor 19'
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
              > to:
              > macgregor19sailboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              > Terms of Service.
              >


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