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kick up rudder system

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  • mike fortuna
    ... I used to be a Hobie dealer when I was younger and the first thing I did on the Mac 19 was convert the stupid shear pin system to an easy cheap kick up
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 24, 2006
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      --- Björn,
      I used to be a Hobie dealer when I was younger and the
      first thing I did on the Mac 19 was convert the stupid
      shear pin system to an easy cheap kick up system.
      Sorry we didn't tell you to do that first. The Mac 19
      shear pins were either nylon or wood dowel, not brass
      anyway so they'd shear off but then be a pain to
      replace. Drill two holes through the rudder pipes
      and chamfer them, run a cable from one rudder up the
      tube, across
      to the other rudder tube, down to the other rudder.
      The cable is taut when the rudders are up and use
      bunge cords to pull it up to the mast rear support.
      Thus when you hit something the rudders kick up and go
      back down afterwards by themselves. Actually works
      better than the Hobie system. Photos are posted in
      our photo section. Let me know if you can't find
      them. Mike Fortuna (Angelo Williams on this site)

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    • Björn Conrad Fry
      Thanks a lot for that info Mike. Your idea looks like the choice on a rudder kickup system. (is the cable friction a problem at all? ... its angle out of the
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 25, 2006
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        Thanks a lot for that info Mike.

        Your idea looks like the choice on a rudder kickup system. (is the
        cable friction a problem at all? ... its angle out of the bottom hole
        seems a bit great for it to slide easily.) The question I have now is
        1) is there a source for replacement rudders out there or am I going
        to be forced to make my own? 2) since I'm going to be modifying
        things, has anyone out there improved on the rudder size and shape
        that I might now incorporate too? It's just that those rudders seem
        excessivly small and poorly suited for powered use too.

        thanks again.

        Bjorn

        --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, mike fortuna
        <angelwilliams69@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- Björn,
        > I used to be a Hobie dealer when I was younger and the
        > first thing I did on the Mac 19 was convert the stupid
        > shear pin system to an easy cheap kick up system.
        > Sorry we didn't tell you to do that first. The Mac 19
        > shear pins were either nylon or wood dowel, not brass
        > anyway so they'd shear off but then be a pain to
        > replace. Drill two holes through the rudder pipes
        > and chamfer them, run a cable from one rudder up the
        > tube, across
        > to the other rudder tube, down to the other rudder.
        > The cable is taut when the rudders are up and use
        > bunge cords to pull it up to the mast rear support.
        > Thus when you hit something the rudders kick up and go
        > back down afterwards by themselves. Actually works
        > better than the Hobie system. Photos are posted in
        > our photo section. Let me know if you can't find
        > them. Mike Fortuna (Angelo Williams on this site)
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • am35ca
        Bjorn, must have been something in the air on Sunday! I finally got my Mac 19 out on the water on Sunday after purchasing it several weeks ago. I had to make a
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 26, 2006
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          Bjorn, must have been something in the air on Sunday! I finally got
          my Mac 19 out on the water on Sunday after purchasing it several
          weeks ago. I had to make a trip to Seattle to Seattle to see the
          good people at blue water yachts for some missing shrouds to get me
          going. Anyway on the way out of the small harbour we store the boat
          at we decided to follow another boat as it is a narrow channel. Well
          it turned out he didn't know where he was going either and we
          managed to find the sand bar. Fortunately both my copper bolts
          (sheer pins) broke instead of the rudders.
          After that I turned my depth sounder on instead of following
          someone else out! And all was fine. The bungee cord/cable idea looks
          like a good fix to the sheer pins.
          My Mac 19 does have a small tiller extension and it works well.

          Hope your next one is better

          Cheers Andrew


          --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, Björn Conrad Fry
          <bjoern54@...> wrote:
          >
          > Mac19 aficionados!
          >
          > Well, just came off my second shake down cruise. Spent the last few
          > weeks fine tuning things. Winds were supposed to kick up to 10 mph
          > today and for once it wasn't supposed to storm this afternoon. So
          off
          > I went with a friend and tried that new and improved boat ramp
          here on
          > the Myakka River. Live and learn. Everything worked well, except
          that
          > at first at roughly 10 mph and then up to roughly 15-20 it still
          took
          > us over 90 min. to reach the bay and then the wind went flueee. So
          we
          > just turned around. As it was we hit several sandbars that really
          > shouldn't have been there. No real major stuff … just a few bog-
          downs
          > tilt the motor up and creep back to deeper water stuff. Everything
          is
          > sand around here so it's not so bad. I'd hate to think what it
          would
          > have been like at low tide during the dry season. Anyway, one of
          the
          > things that I wasn't too happy about was the steering on my `93
          > Mariner Magnum 40. It really sucks with the small alloy tiller arm
          > that was sorta jerry rigged for it? I don't know if that system
          can
          > be made better or not. It sure doesn't seem so. Perhaps a tiller
          > extension would help, but I have my doubts that it will make that
          much
          > of a difference. Well, at least I wouldn't have to keep bending
          down
          > so far. And there again the play in it was worse than that old
          1940s
          > farm tractor I'd occasionally used back when I as a boy. (I don't
          know
          > … perhaps there is a bolt or two that need tightening … I can
          hope.)
          > It was a pain then too to try to see over the folded down mast and
          > elevated bow when crouched down like that. A smaller person would
          have
          > really had a problem. It was a real challenge trying to avoid the
          crab
          > trap buoys that way too. As I went on I decided to try to use the
          > rudder system as an alternative method of steering her. It was a
          lot
          > easier on the back and worked ok albeit sluggishly and forget
          bringing
          > her around sharply.
          >
          > Anyway, I just had to try it and I ended up paying the price. I'm
          not
          > sure what ended up causing it or exactly what happened, but only a
          100
          > yards from the ramp there was a rather sharp knock on the boat. We
          > didn't immediately realize what caused it .. sounded like we hit
          > something in the water. Perhaps it was a submerged metal trashcan
          or
          > branch. We were only going one or two mph. It wasn't until we
          pulled
          > the boat up to the trailer did we see the damage. One of my rudders
          > was gone … there was only a small piece of it left that remained
          stuck
          > behind the bolts. Both bronze bolts were bent but did not sheer.
          That
          > might have happened when we hit one or more of those sandbars. All
          I
          > can say is the damn thing apparently sank like nobody's bushiness
          > because I remember searching the back of the boat for some foreign
          > object in the water. Upon reflection perhaps the thing just fell
          off
          > finally when we were motoring dead slow and the thud might have
          been
          > the impact of the rudder with the prop. I just don't know … All I
          can
          > say is that the break seemed to be rather jagged and very
          crystalline
          > where wood impregnated with resin or something failed. I'm not
          sure if
          > there was any rot or previous damage because the previous owner had
          > just given everything a coat of rust red anti-fouling paint.
          >
          > Regardless, given sailing conditions around here, I pretty much
          knew
          > that I'd be replacing or at least modifying the stock rudders. I've
          > also read a number of complaints about them. Obviously the fact
          that
          > the existing configuration can be quite a nuisance to use too
          > convinced me early on that I was going to have to replace them. In
          > addition, I've had exposure to other more well thought
          configurations.
          > The single rudder configuration on the `73 Ventura/Mac 25 is a
          case in
          > point. The Hobie Cats have ingenious rudders as well that just
          flip up
          > in the shallows or when pulled onto the beach. I was thinking along
          > the lines of one of these. The question I now have, should I modify
          > the existing rudder, which means, I'll have to either manufacture
          or
          > purchase a replacement from someone or somewhere, or do I perhaps
          pick
          > your brains here in the group and find out which of you has had the
          > greatest success with Mac19 rudder replacements etc.?
          >
          > Any suggestions?
          >
          > BTW, I guess looking at how the Mac26 M is configured might be a
          good
          > next step for me. I'm sure MacGregor has been acutely aware of the
          > design shortcomings of their Mac19 rudders and have taken steps to
          > address them in later models.
          >
          > Thanks in advance.
          >
          > Bjorn
          >
        • Ron Buckles
          Guys, I use nylon bolts and nut for the rudder shear pins. They work great. Ron ... From: am35ca To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com Sent:
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 2, 2006
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            Guys,

            I use nylon bolts and nut for the rudder shear pins. They work great.

            Ron



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: am35ca <am35@...>
            To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:32:47 PM
            Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: Murphy strikes again on Shakedown #2


            Bjorn, must have been something in the air on Sunday! I finally got
            my Mac 19 out on the water on Sunday after purchasing it several
            weeks ago. I had to make a trip to Seattle to Seattle to see the
            good people at blue water yachts for some missing shrouds to get me
            going. Anyway on the way out of the small harbour we store the boat
            at we decided to follow another boat as it is a narrow channel. Well
            it turned out he didn't know where he was going either and we
            managed to find the sand bar. Fortunately both my copper bolts
            (sheer pins) broke instead of the rudders.
            After that I turned my depth sounder on instead of following
            someone else out! And all was fine. The bungee cord/cable idea looks
            like a good fix to the sheer pins.
            My Mac 19 does have a small tiller extension and it works well.

            Hope your next one is better

            Cheers Andrew


            --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, Björn Conrad Fry
            <bjoern54@...> wrote:
            >
            > Mac19 aficionados!
            >
            > Well, just came off my second shake down cruise. Spent the last few
            > weeks fine tuning things. Winds were supposed to kick up to 10 mph
            > today and for once it wasn't supposed to storm this afternoon. So
            off
            > I went with a friend and tried that new and improved boat ramp
            here on
            > the Myakka River. Live and learn. Everything worked well, except
            that
            > at first at roughly 10 mph and then up to roughly 15-20 it still
            took
            > us over 90 min. to reach the bay and then the wind went flueee. So
            we
            > just turned around. As it was we hit several sandbars that really
            > shouldn't have been there. No real major stuff … just a few bog-
            downs
            > tilt the motor up and creep back to deeper water stuff. Everything
            is
            > sand around here so it's not so bad. I'd hate to think what it
            would
            > have been like at low tide during the dry season. Anyway, one of
            the
            > things that I wasn't too happy about was the steering on my `93
            > Mariner Magnum 40. It really sucks with the small alloy tiller arm
            > that was sorta jerry rigged for it? I don't know if that system
            can
            > be made better or not. It sure doesn't seem so. Perhaps a tiller
            > extension would help, but I have my doubts that it will make that
            much
            > of a difference. Well, at least I wouldn't have to keep bending
            down
            > so far. And there again the play in it was worse than that old
            1940s
            > farm tractor I'd occasionally used back when I as a boy. (I don't
            know
            > … perhaps there is a bolt or two that need tightening … I can
            hope.)
            > It was a pain then too to try to see over the folded down mast and
            > elevated bow when crouched down like that. A smaller person would
            have
            > really had a problem. It was a real challenge trying to avoid the
            crab
            > trap buoys that way too. As I went on I decided to try to use the
            > rudder system as an alternative method of steering her. It was a
            lot
            > easier on the back and worked ok albeit sluggishly and forget
            bringing
            > her around sharply.
            >
            > Anyway, I just had to try it and I ended up paying the price. I'm
            not
            > sure what ended up causing it or exactly what happened, but only a
            100
            > yards from the ramp there was a rather sharp knock on the boat. We
            > didn't immediately realize what caused it .. sounded like we hit
            > something in the water. Perhaps it was a submerged metal trashcan
            or
            > branch. We were only going one or two mph. It wasn't until we
            pulled
            > the boat up to the trailer did we see the damage. One of my rudders
            > was gone … there was only a small piece of it left that remained
            stuck
            > behind the bolts. Both bronze bolts were bent but did not sheer.
            That
            > might have happened when we hit one or more of those sandbars. All
            I
            > can say is the damn thing apparently sank like nobody's bushiness
            > because I remember searching the back of the boat for some foreign
            > object in the water. Upon reflection perhaps the thing just fell
            off
            > finally when we were motoring dead slow and the thud might have
            been
            > the impact of the rudder with the prop. I just don't know … All I
            can
            > say is that the break seemed to be rather jagged and very
            crystalline
            > where wood impregnated with resin or something failed. I'm not
            sure if
            > there was any rot or previous damage because the previous owner had
            > just given everything a coat of rust red anti-fouling paint.
            >
            > Regardless, given sailing conditions around here, I pretty much
            knew
            > that I'd be replacing or at least modifying the stock rudders. I've
            > also read a number of complaints about them. Obviously the fact
            that
            > the existing configuration can be quite a nuisance to use too
            > convinced me early on that I was going to have to replace them. In
            > addition, I've had exposure to other more well thought
            configurations.
            > The single rudder configuration on the `73 Ventura/Mac 25 is a
            case in
            > point. The Hobie Cats have ingenious rudders as well that just
            flip up
            > in the shallows or when pulled onto the beach. I was thinking along
            > the lines of one of these. The question I now have, should I modify
            > the existing rudder, which means, I'll have to either manufacture
            or
            > purchase a replacement from someone or somewhere, or do I perhaps
            pick
            > your brains here in the group and find out which of you has had the
            > greatest success with Mac19 rudder replacements etc.?
            >
            > Any suggestions?
            >
            > BTW, I guess looking at how the Mac26 M is configured might be a
            good
            > next step for me. I'm sure MacGregor has been acutely aware of the
            > design shortcomings of their Mac19 rudders and have taken steps to
            > address them in later models.
            >
            > Thanks in advance.
            >
            > Bjorn
            >









            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • swiwisailor
            I only had my Mac19 for a couple of months and I have already changed the rudder system to the suggested wire up through the s/s tube as per photos by
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 2, 2006
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              I only had my Mac19 for a couple of months and I have already changed
              the rudder system to the suggested wire up through the s/s tube as per
              photos by angelwilliams69. I had gone through a number of nylon pins
              and got really annoyed by the fact that you can't change them without
              going for a swim, which in cold water is just not pleasant. Ron, I
              agree, the nylon pins work well, e.g. they break promptly and protect
              the rudders, but they are a pain to replace.
              cheers
              Swiwisailor


              --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, Ron Buckles <ronbuckles@
              ...> wrote:
              >
              > Guys,
              >
              > I use nylon bolts and nut for the rudder shear pins. They work
              great.
              >
              > Ron
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: am35ca <am35@...>
              > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:32:47 PM
              > Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: Murphy strikes again on
              Shakedown #2
              >
              >
              > Bjorn, must have been something in the air on Sunday! I finally got
              > my Mac 19 out on the water on Sunday after purchasing it several
              > weeks ago. I had to make a trip to Seattle to Seattle to see the
              > good people at blue water yachts for some missing shrouds to get me
              > going. Anyway on the way out of the small harbour we store the boat
              > at we decided to follow another boat as it is a narrow channel. Well
              > it turned out he didn't know where he was going either and we
              > managed to find the sand bar. Fortunately both my copper bolts
              > (sheer pins) broke instead of the rudders.
              > After that I turned my depth sounder on instead of following
              > someone else out! And all was fine. The bungee cord/cable idea looks
              > like a good fix to the sheer pins.
              > My Mac 19 does have a small tiller extension and it works well.
              >
              > Hope your next one is better
              >
              > Cheers Andrew
              >
              >
              > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, Björn Conrad Fry
              > <bjoern54@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Mac19 aficionados!
              > >
              > > Well, just came off my second shake down cruise. Spent the last
              few
              > > weeks fine tuning things. Winds were supposed to kick up to 10 mph
              > > today and for once it wasn't supposed to storm this afternoon. So
              > off
              > > I went with a friend and tried that new and improved boat ramp
              > here on
              > > the Myakka River. Live and learn. Everything worked well, except
              > that
              > > at first at roughly 10 mph and then up to roughly 15-20 it still
              > took
              > > us over 90 min. to reach the bay and then the wind went flueee. So
              > we
              > > just turned around. As it was we hit several sandbars that really
              > > shouldn't have been there. No real major stuff … just a few bog-
              > downs
              > > tilt the motor up and creep back to deeper water stuff. Everything
              > is
              > > sand around here so it's not so bad. I'd hate to think what it
              > would
              > > have been like at low tide during the dry season. Anyway, one of
              > the
              > > things that I wasn't too happy about was the steering on my `93
              > > Mariner Magnum 40. It really sucks with the small alloy tiller arm
              > > that was sorta jerry rigged for it? I don't know if that system
              > can
              > > be made better or not. It sure doesn't seem so. Perhaps a tiller
              > > extension would help, but I have my doubts that it will make that
              > much
              > > of a difference. Well, at least I wouldn't have to keep bending
              > down
              > > so far. And there again the play in it was worse than that old
              > 1940s
              > > farm tractor I'd occasionally used back when I as a boy. (I don't
              > know
              > > … perhaps there is a bolt or two that need tightening … I can
              > hope.)
              > > It was a pain then too to try to see over the folded down mast and
              > > elevated bow when crouched down like that. A smaller person would
              > have
              > > really had a problem. It was a real challenge trying to avoid the
              > crab
              > > trap buoys that way too. As I went on I decided to try to use the
              > > rudder system as an alternative method of steering her. It was a
              > lot
              > > easier on the back and worked ok albeit sluggishly and forget
              > bringing
              > > her around sharply.
              > >
              > > Anyway, I just had to try it and I ended up paying the price. I'm
              > not
              > > sure what ended up causing it or exactly what happened, but only a
              > 100
              > > yards from the ramp there was a rather sharp knock on the boat. We
              > > didn't immediately realize what caused it .. sounded like we hit
              > > something in the water. Perhaps it was a submerged metal trashcan
              > or
              > > branch. We were only going one or two mph. It wasn't until we
              > pulled
              > > the boat up to the trailer did we see the damage. One of my
              rudders
              > > was gone … there was only a small piece of it left that remained
              > stuck
              > > behind the bolts. Both bronze bolts were bent but did not sheer.
              > That
              > > might have happened when we hit one or more of those sandbars. All
              > I
              > > can say is the damn thing apparently sank like nobody's bushiness
              > > because I remember searching the back of the boat for some foreign
              > > object in the water. Upon reflection perhaps the thing just fell
              > off
              > > finally when we were motoring dead slow and the thud might have
              > been
              > > the impact of the rudder with the prop. I just don't know … All I
              > can
              > > say is that the break seemed to be rather jagged and very
              > crystalline
              > > where wood impregnated with resin or something failed. I'm not
              > sure if
              > > there was any rot or previous damage because the previous owner
              had
              > > just given everything a coat of rust red anti-fouling paint.
              > >
              > > Regardless, given sailing conditions around here, I pretty much
              > knew
              > > that I'd be replacing or at least modifying the stock rudders.
              I've
              > > also read a number of complaints about them. Obviously the fact
              > that
              > > the existing configuration can be quite a nuisance to use too
              > > convinced me early on that I was going to have to replace them. In
              > > addition, I've had exposure to other more well thought
              > configurations.
              > > The single rudder configuration on the `73 Ventura/Mac 25 is a
              > case in
              > > point. The Hobie Cats have ingenious rudders as well that just
              > flip up
              > > in the shallows or when pulled onto the beach. I was thinking
              along
              > > the lines of one of these. The question I now have, should I
              modify
              > > the existing rudder, which means, I'll have to either manufacture
              > or
              > > purchase a replacement from someone or somewhere, or do I perhaps
              > pick
              > > your brains here in the group and find out which of you has had
              the
              > > greatest success with Mac19 rudder replacements etc.?
              > >
              > > Any suggestions?
              > >
              > > BTW, I guess looking at how the Mac26 M is configured might be a
              > good
              > > next step for me. I'm sure MacGregor has been acutely aware of the
              > > design shortcomings of their Mac19 rudders and have taken steps to
              > > address them in later models.
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance.
              > >
              > > Bjorn
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
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