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M-19 Sunk

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  • ku9u
    Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to leaving the ballast fill valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple of weeks ago and we are trying to find
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 1, 2003
      Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to leaving the ballast fill
      valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple of weeks ago and we
      are trying to find out why. I should say that it didn't totally
      sink, but it was sitting on the bottom in about 4' of water with
      the cabin full of water and the 40hp Tohatsu completely under
      water. The mechanic at the Mac shop said he doesn't believe the cabin
      filled up due to the vent being open. The insurance company is in the
      process of deciding whether to fix the boat or scrap it.
    • Dane Sherrard
      I would have thought that the only way that a Mac19 could sink with its vents left open would be if there was a great deal of extra weight in the boat - and if
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 1, 2003
        I would have thought that the only way that a Mac19 could sink with its
        vents left open would be if there was a great deal of extra weight in
        the boat - and if there was a great deal of extra weight and it was all
        forward then the water would be more likely to come over the top of the
        pipe housing the centre-board cable - but it would have to be an awful
        lot of weight.

        Dane Sherrard
        Mac19 Olivebank
      • Lynn Steimel
        I could understand the boat sinking if there was a lot of extra weight in the boat, but there was only a few light things in there. One dealer said that he had
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 1, 2003
          I could understand the boat sinking if there was a lot of extra weight
          in the boat, but there was only a few light things in there. One
          dealer said that he had a water ballast tank break loose on a
          Catalina, causing it to sink. I don't know if that could happen to the
          Mac or not.
        • Erik Corley
          I d be interested to know what you find out, as mine had nearly the same thing happen. I recently purchased it, and left it at a slip for a couple of days.
          Message 4 of 26 , Jul 1, 2003
            I'd be interested to know what you find out, as mine had nearly the same
            thing happen. I recently purchased it, and left it at a slip for a
            couple of days. The marina called me and told me it was sinking, so I
            rushed out to find it. Fortunately, it had only gone down about 1 1/2
            feet. I believe that it had a small leak in between the ballast tank
            and the floor of the cabin. After most of the water was pumped out, I
            noticed that there was more water in the cabin floor (the recessed area
            in between the bunks and settees) than just after I had pumped it out.
            Not much, but a little. Over the course of a couple of days, that
            trickle of a leak could have caused the boat to sink.

            On my boat (a '92), there are two fittings in the cabin floor on either
            side of the mast pole. They look like they lead to the ballast tank.
            If an o-ring failed in one of these fittings, that could explain my
            problem. Does anyone know if those two fittings lead to the ballast tank?

            Thanks

            ku9u wrote:

            > Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to leaving the ballast fill
            > valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple of weeks ago and we
            > are trying to find out why. I should say that it didn't totally
            > sink, but it was sitting on the bottom in about 4' of water with
            > the cabin full of water and the 40hp Tohatsu completely under
            > water. The mechanic at the Mac shop said he doesn't believe the cabin
            > filled up due to the vent being open. The insurance company is in the
            > process of deciding whether to fix the boat or scrap it.
            >
          • Dane Sherrard
            The water ballast tank is an integral part of the hull and couldn t break free in a Mac19. For a Mac to sink the hull must have been completely un-holed and
            Message 5 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
              The water ballast tank is an integral part of the hull and couldn't
              break free in a Mac19.

              For a Mac to sink the hull must have been completely un-holed and then a
              huge amount of water brought into it to force it to sink - but it is
              hard to figure out because the boat has so much natural buoyancy that
              even with weight it would be hard to sink it completely

              I really would check the pipe carrying the centre-board cable and also
              the inspection hatches into the ballast tank to see if water could come
              in there if the vent was left open. I don't see how water could come in
              through the top of the ballast tank vent because it is so high above the
              water-line and the boat would have to be very low in the water before
              water would come in in that manner.

              Dane Sherrard
              Mac 19 Olivebank
            • Ron Buckles
              Sinking no. But I let mine open once with a couple of large passengers and took on some water. I had a couple of inches in the back cabin before I noticed and
              Message 6 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                Sinking no. But I let mine open once with a couple of
                large passengers and took on some water. I had a
                couple of inches in the back cabin before I noticed
                and plugged the thing up. Back end did not even come
                close to sinking. You would have to have some pretty
                heavy weight to push the back in down far enough to
                have water squirt out the air value.

                Next time I am out, I am going to measure how far down
                the water is in the ballast tank from the top of the
                air value.

                Ron

                --- ku9u <lynn.steimel@...> wrote:
                > Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to leaving
                > the ballast fill
                > valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple of
                > weeks ago and we
                > are trying to find out why. I should say that it
                > didn't totally
                > sink, but it was sitting on the bottom in about 4'
                > of water with
                > the cabin full of water and the 40hp Tohatsu
                > completely under
                > water. The mechanic at the Mac shop said he doesn't
                > believe the cabin
                > filled up due to the vent being open. The insurance
                > company is in the
                > process of deciding whether to fix the boat or scrap
                > it.
                >
                >
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              • Tom Garmon
                To all concerned (myself included), The water is about 3 inches below the vent when the tank is full. it would take allot of weight in the stern to pull it
                Message 7 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                  Message
                  To all concerned (myself included),
                   
                  The water is about 3 inches below the vent when the tank is full. it would take allot of weight in the stern to pull it down far enough to spill out the vent. The only way to sink the 19 without holing the hull would be to have the center board cable tube come loose or pop off somehow, or have one of the deck plates for access to the center board and cable pulley bolts be loose or leaking. What did the guy at the Mac place say might have caused it?
                   
                  Tom
                  '92 19'
                  Northeast Ohio
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ron Buckles [mailto:ronbuckles@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:28 AM
                  To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [macgregor19sailboats] M-19 Sunk

                  Sinking no. But I let mine open once with a couple of
                  large passengers and took on some water.  I had a
                  couple of inches in the back cabin before I noticed
                  and plugged the thing up.  Back end did not even come
                  close to sinking.  You would have to have some pretty
                  heavy weight to push the back in down far enough to
                  have water squirt out the air value.

                  Next time I am out, I am going to measure how far down
                  the water is in the ballast tank from the top of the
                  air value.

                  Ron

                  --- ku9u <lynn.steimel@...> wrote:
                  > Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to leaving
                  > the ballast fill
                  > valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple of
                  > weeks ago and we
                  > are trying to find out why. I should say that it
                  > didn't totally
                  > sink, but it was sitting on the bottom in about 4'
                  > of water with
                  > the cabin full of water and the 40hp Tohatsu
                  > completely under
                  > water. The mechanic at the Mac shop said he doesn't
                  > believe the cabin
                  > filled up due to the vent being open. The insurance
                  > company is in the
                  > process of deciding whether to fix the boat or scrap
                  > it.
                  >
                  >
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                • angela michele
                  I think I missed something. I thought the 19 had enough foam to keep it from sinking. Anyway, met some foreign guy who bought the M 19 shorts in Key West.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                    I think I missed something. I thought the 19 had
                    enough foam to keep it from sinking. Anyway, met some
                    foreign guy who bought the M 19 shorts in Key West.
                    Pictured on new photo I'm adding. Didn't know they
                    had such??


                    --- Tom Garmon <tomg@...> wrote:
                    > To all concerned (myself included),
                    >
                    > The water is about 3 inches below the vent when the
                    > tank is full. it
                    > would take allot of weight in the stern to pull it
                    > down far enough to
                    > spill out the vent. The only way to sink the 19
                    > without holing the hull
                    > would be to have the center board cable tube come
                    > loose or pop off
                    > somehow, or have one of the deck plates for access
                    > to the center board
                    > and cable pulley bolts be loose or leaking. What did
                    > the guy at the Mac
                    > place say might have caused it?
                    >
                    > Tom
                    > '92 19'
                    > Northeast Ohio
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Ron Buckles [mailto:ronbuckles@...]
                    > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 9:28 AM
                    > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [macgregor19sailboats] M-19 Sunk
                    >
                    >
                    > Sinking no. But I let mine open once with a couple
                    > of
                    > large passengers and took on some water. I had a
                    > couple of inches in the back cabin before I noticed
                    > and plugged the thing up. Back end did not even
                    > come
                    > close to sinking. You would have to have some
                    > pretty
                    > heavy weight to push the back in down far enough to
                    > have water squirt out the air value.
                    >
                    > Next time I am out, I am going to measure how far
                    > down
                    > the water is in the ballast tank from the top of the
                    > air value.
                    >
                    > Ron
                    >
                    > --- ku9u <lynn.steimel@...> wrote:
                    > > Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to
                    > leaving
                    > > the ballast fill
                    > > valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple
                    > of
                    > > weeks ago and we
                    > > are trying to find out why. I should say that it
                    > > didn't totally
                    > > sink, but it was sitting on the bottom in about 4'
                    > > of water with
                    > > the cabin full of water and the 40hp Tohatsu
                    > > completely under
                    > > water. The mechanic at the Mac shop said he
                    > doesn't
                    > > believe the cabin
                    > > filled up due to the vent being open. The
                    > insurance
                    > > company is in the
                    > > process of deciding whether to fix the boat or
                    > scrap
                    > > it.
                    > >
                    > >
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                  • Lynn Steimel
                    The guy at the Mac shop hasn t checked into the cause of the boat sinking far enough yet. He probably won t. The insurance adjuster told him not to go any
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                      The guy at the Mac shop hasn't checked into the cause of the boat
                      sinking far enough yet. He probably won't. The insurance adjuster
                      told him not to go any farther with it until they decided whether to
                      fix it or scrap it. The adjuster told me they will have to replace
                      the
                      motor and with the cost involved in that, they probably won't fix the
                      boat, still not knowing why it sank. There was not any excess weight
                      in the boat and the weather was very calm. It sank on a Monday night
                      with very little boat traffic. I always check the amount of water in
                      the ballast by sticking my finger in the vent hole, and it was full
                      but not overfull. I usually put the vent plug back in place but this
                      time I did forget. I have left it open many times before and never
                      had
                      a problem. If they do scrap it, I will try to buy it back from the
                      insurance company and possible fix it myself. In the last 2 months I
                      had the trailer sandblasted, primered, painted, new tires and new
                      trailer lights. That is enough reason right there to why it sank!!!!!
                      ha ha
                    • Tom Garmon
                      You re right Angela. The M19 can t sink COMPLETELY (if it still has it s foam flotation), but it will swamp to the deck. That can cause allot of damage. Cool
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                        Message
                        You're right Angela. The M19 can't sink COMPLETELY (if it still has it's foam flotation), but it will swamp to the deck. That can cause allot of damage. Cool shorts! Wonder where he got 'em
                         
                        Tom
                        '92 19'
                        Northeast Ohio
                      • Tom Garmon
                        I d definitely buy it back if you can. The motor may be trash, but as for the boat itself, if it wasn t down for too long, there s nothing there that a good
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                          Message
                          I'd definitely buy it back if you can. The motor may be trash, but as for the boat itself, if it wasn't down for too long, there's nothing there that a good drying out can't fix!
                           
                          Tom
                          '92 19'
                          Northeast Ohio
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Lynn Steimel [mailto:lynn.steimel@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:58 AM
                          To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: M-19 Sunk

                          The guy at the Mac shop hasn't checked into the cause of the boat
                          sinking far enough yet. He probably won't. The insurance adjuster
                          told him not to go any farther with it until they decided whether to
                          fix it or scrap it. The adjuster told me they will have to replace
                          the
                          motor and with the cost involved in that, they probably won't fix the
                          boat, still not knowing why it sank. There was not any excess weight
                          in the boat and the weather was very calm. It sank on a Monday night
                          with very little boat traffic. I always check the amount of water in
                          the ballast by sticking my finger in the vent hole, and it was full
                          but not overfull. I usually put the vent plug back in place but this
                          time I did forget. I have left it open many times before and never
                          had
                          a problem. If they do scrap it, I will try to buy it back from the
                          insurance company and possible fix it myself. In the last 2 months I
                          had the trailer sandblasted, primered, painted, new tires and new
                          trailer lights. That is enough reason right there to why it sank!!!!!
                          ha ha





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                          macgregor19sailboats-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                        • Lynn Steimel
                          The boat was only under water for 2 hours at the most. There might be a good chance of saving the motor also. Right away I took the plugs out, fogged the
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                            The boat was only under water for 2 hours at the most. There might be
                            a good chance of saving the motor also. Right away I took the plugs
                            out, fogged the cylinders and cranked the motor quite awhile to pump
                            the water out. It would take a lot of work, but it might be worth
                            trying.
                          • Lynn Steimel
                            I don t have any pictures of the boat while it was flooded with water, but there are my boat pictures in the Photo section. The boat name is Fantasea.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jul 2, 2003
                              I don't have any pictures of the boat while it was flooded with water,
                              but there are my boat pictures in the "Photo" section. The boat name is
                              Fantasea.
                            • safieradam
                              My Johnson motor manual (factory version?) says to put the motor in fresh water until you can get to taking care of it. They also say it must be fixed within 3
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jul 3, 2003
                                My Johnson motor manual (factory version?) says to put the motor in
                                fresh water until you can get to taking care of it.

                                They also say it must be fixed within 3 hrs of coming out of the
                                water or corrosion starts to do nasty things.

                                MMM

                                --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Steimel"
                                <lynn.steimel@v...> wrote:
                                > The boat was only under water for 2 hours at the most. There might
                                be
                                > a good chance of saving the motor also. Right away I took the plugs
                                > out, fogged the cylinders and cranked the motor quite awhile to
                                pump
                                > the water out. It would take a lot of work, but it might be worth
                                > trying.
                              • safieradam
                                The floor fittings on either side of the mast are access panels. You unscrew the 6 screws and pry them up. They are caulked in. Mark the edges before you
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jul 3, 2003
                                  The floor "fittings" on either side of the mast are access panels.
                                  You unscrew the 6 screws and pry them up. They are caulked in. Mark
                                  the edges before you take them up - the screws are unevenly spaced so
                                  you have to put them back exactley the same to match holes.

                                  Careful, they are fiberglass. One of mine split horizontally - i.e.
                                  I ended up with 2 thin but whole plates which I simply glued together
                                  again.

                                  Anyway, they give you access to the balast tank interior and the
                                  centerboard pivot bolt. You put them back on with caulk and the
                                  screws - I used 3M 5200 and may regret it when I go to take them off
                                  again. 4100 may have been smarter. No O ring.

                                  MMM - M19 "Fred"



                                  --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, Erik Corley
                                  <ecorley@u...> wrote:
                                  > I'd be interested to know what you find out, as mine had nearly the
                                  same
                                  > thing happen. I recently purchased it, and left it at a slip for a
                                  > couple of days. The marina called me and told me it was sinking,
                                  so I
                                  > rushed out to find it. Fortunately, it had only gone down about 1
                                  1/2
                                  > feet. I believe that it had a small leak in between the ballast
                                  tank
                                  > and the floor of the cabin. After most of the water was pumped
                                  out, I
                                  > noticed that there was more water in the cabin floor (the recessed
                                  area
                                  > in between the bunks and settees) than just after I had pumped it
                                  out.
                                  > Not much, but a little. Over the course of a couple of days, that
                                  > trickle of a leak could have caused the boat to sink.
                                  >
                                  > On my boat (a '92), there are two fittings in the cabin floor on
                                  either
                                  > side of the mast pole. They look like they lead to the ballast
                                  tank.
                                  > If an o-ring failed in one of these fittings, that could explain my
                                  > problem. Does anyone know if those two fittings lead to the
                                  ballast tank?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  >
                                  > ku9u wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Has anyone heard of a Mac 19 sinking due to leaving the ballast
                                  fill
                                  > > valve and vent inside open? Mine sank and couple of weeks ago and
                                  we
                                  > > are trying to find out why. I should say that it didn't totally
                                  > > sink, but it was sitting on the bottom in about 4' of water with
                                  > > the cabin full of water and the 40hp Tohatsu completely under
                                  > > water. The mechanic at the Mac shop said he doesn't believe the
                                  cabin
                                  > > filled up due to the vent being open. The insurance company is in
                                  the
                                  > > process of deciding whether to fix the boat or scrap it.
                                  > >
                                • safieradam
                                  How much do you have it insured for? It would seem to me the hull would be very salvagable. The cusions may be gone but the hull is water proof . BTW, When
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jul 3, 2003
                                    How much do you have it insured for? It would seem to me the hull
                                    would be very salvagable. The cusions may be gone but the hull
                                    is "water proof".

                                    BTW, When I bought my Mac 19 I left it the dealers slip overnight and
                                    found about 4 inches of water in it. Still plenty of floatation but
                                    a lot for one night. The vent was plugged. I also take on water
                                    when sailing and my bilge pumps come on several times in a day sail.
                                    I suspect a leak in the bilge drain fitting and will be sealing it in
                                    a few days and checking the CB cable tube.

                                    MMM - M19 "Fred"

                                    --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn Steimel"
                                    <lynn.steimel@v...> wrote:
                                    > The guy at the Mac shop hasn't checked into the cause of the boat
                                    > sinking far enough yet. He probably won't. The insurance adjuster
                                    > told him not to go any farther with it until they decided whether
                                    to
                                    > fix it or scrap it. The adjuster told me they will have to replace
                                    > the
                                    > motor and with the cost involved in that, they probably won't fix
                                    the
                                    > boat, still not knowing why it sank. There was not any excess
                                    weight
                                    > in the boat and the weather was very calm. It sank on a Monday
                                    night
                                    > with very little boat traffic. I always check the amount of water
                                    in
                                    > the ballast by sticking my finger in the vent hole, and it was full
                                    > but not overfull. I usually put the vent plug back in place but
                                    this
                                    > time I did forget. I have left it open many times before and never
                                    > had
                                    > a problem. If they do scrap it, I will try to buy it back from the
                                    > insurance company and possible fix it myself. In the last 2 months
                                    I
                                    > had the trailer sandblasted, primered, painted, new tires and new
                                    > trailer lights. That is enough reason right there to why it
                                    sank!!!!!
                                    > ha ha
                                  • angela michele
                                    Sure, buy it back. It s already set up the way you like it. Soap and even mild bleach can fix lots of problems. Where else will you get one as great for the
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jul 3, 2003
                                      Sure, buy it back. It's already set up the way you
                                      like it. Soap and even mild bleach can fix lots of
                                      problems. Where else will you get one as great for
                                      the settlement money? Usually salvage is 10% of
                                      value. Motor MAY need some electronics replaced but
                                      if you pull the plugs and use fogging oil right away
                                      and try cranking it over by hand until you get the
                                      bearings, etc lubed you might be able to get it back
                                      in service very cheaply. I've seen motors that were
                                      under deep water for weeks restored if you get them
                                      lubed as soon as possible after they're exposed to
                                      air.

                                      --- Tom Garmon <tomg@...> wrote:
                                      > I'd definitely buy it back if you can. The motor may
                                      > be trash, but as
                                      > for the boat itself, if it wasn't down for too long,
                                      > there's nothing
                                      > there that a good drying out can't fix!
                                      >
                                      > Tom
                                      > '92 19'
                                      > Northeast Ohio
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Lynn Steimel [mailto:lynn.steimel@...]
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:58 AM
                                      > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: M-19 Sunk
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The guy at the Mac shop hasn't checked into the
                                      > cause of the boat
                                      > sinking far enough yet. He probably won't. The
                                      > insurance adjuster
                                      > told him not to go any farther with it until they
                                      > decided whether to
                                      > fix it or scrap it. The adjuster told me they will
                                      > have to replace
                                      > the
                                      > motor and with the cost involved in that, they
                                      > probably won't fix the
                                      > boat, still not knowing why it sank. There was not
                                      > any excess weight
                                      > in the boat and the weather was very calm. It sank
                                      > on a Monday night
                                      > with very little boat traffic. I always check the
                                      > amount of water in
                                      > the ballast by sticking my finger in the vent hole,
                                      > and it was full
                                      > but not overfull. I usually put the vent plug back
                                      > in place but this
                                      > time I did forget. I have left it open many times
                                      > before and never
                                      > had
                                      > a problem. If they do scrap it, I will try to buy it
                                      > back from the
                                      > insurance company and possible fix it myself. In the
                                      > last 2 months I
                                      > had the trailer sandblasted, primered, painted, new
                                      > tires and new
                                      > trailer lights. That is enough reason right there to
                                      > why it sank!!!!!
                                      > ha ha
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • Lynn Steimel
                                      Thanks for all to good info on the sunken sailboat. I have it insured for $7500 and it looks like they will pay approx. $7100 and I keep the trailer since it
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jul 3, 2003
                                        Thanks for all to good info on the sunken sailboat. I have it insured
                                        for $7500 and it looks like they will pay approx. $7100 and I keep the
                                        trailer since it was insured separately and not damaged. I plan on
                                        buying it back and fix it, and then probably put it up for sale. The
                                        wife would like to go to a bigger boat and this might just be the
                                        opportunity.
                                      • angela michele
                                        Even though I don t keep my boat moored very often, I m getting motivated to finish installing at least one bilge pump with an automatic float switch and a
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jul 6, 2003
                                          Even though I don't keep my boat moored very often,
                                          I'm getting motivated to finish installing at least
                                          one bilge pump with an automatic float switch and a
                                          light visible from the cockpit when it's operating.
                                          If you keep the boat moored at a marina where power is
                                          available, keep at least a trickle charger connected
                                          to the battery (some trickle chargers don't develop
                                          much power, some automatic chargers do and won't
                                          overcharge the battery). If you're gone for awhile
                                          and a major leak develops the bilge pump will keep the
                                          boat from sinking. If you don't have shore power, keep
                                          an extra battery in the boat. Of course if the leak
                                          is bad, eventually they'll both run down but it will
                                          help. I still don't see how the boat can sink
                                          completely with the foam floatation but even getting
                                          water above the cushions will create a mess. Maybe
                                          you need to install blocks of foam in the bilge spaces
                                          or even stuff it with empty milk cartons. Lots of boat
                                          manufacturers, like Laser, use them instead of foam.
                                          Cheaper and less likely to soak up water which foam
                                          will eventually do especially when it goes thru a
                                          freezing winter. good luck to all. Mike

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                                        • Lynn Steimel
                                          I don t normally leave my boat in the water while I am away, but this time I did it to bring my trailer home and put new lights and wiring on it. I do have an
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jul 6, 2003
                                            I don't normally leave my boat in the water while I am away, but this
                                            time I did it to bring my trailer home and put new lights and wiring on
                                            it. I do have an automatic bilge pump in the boat but evidently the leak
                                            was faster than the pump could handle. The bilge pump was working at its
                                            best. The boat wasn't totally sunk, but it was far enough down to have
                                            the motor completely under. The cabin was pretty much filled with water
                                            but still above the water.
                                          • Randy Zerbe
                                            ... the hull been holed) is the motor well drain tube which drains out through a thru-hull fitting on the aft end of the starboard side. This could have pulled
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jul 8, 2003
                                              --- Another possible source of water leaking into the hull (besides
                                              the hull been holed) is the motor well drain tube which drains out
                                              through a thru-hull fitting on the aft end of the starboard side.
                                              This could have pulled loose or split open. As the boat settled water
                                              would come in the ballest tank vent if it were open thus increasing
                                              the rate of flooding. On Windfall, I installed a tee- fitting into
                                              this tube and ran the bilge pump outlet line high above the waterline
                                              then to the tee so I could avoid drill more holes in the hull. I
                                              double clamped everthing and this has work well.
                                              I don't see how swamping a 19 would cause it to be a total loss.
                                              Too bad about the OB though. Good Luck, Randy
                                            • Lynn Steimel
                                              The motor well drain is securely in place. Today the insurance company told me the boat and motor will be scrapped. It is a total loss. I still will try to buy
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jul 8, 2003
                                                The motor well drain is securely in place. Today the insurance company
                                                told me the boat and motor will be scrapped. It is a total loss. I still
                                                will try to buy it back. The dealer working on it wants it too.
                                              • Tom Garmon
                                                ... anybody know what the two holes are in the stern just above the wateline and just inboard of the rudders? I m still working on my boat since I ve purchased
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jul 10, 2003
                                                  Message
                                                  ----Further exploring where the water came in to swamp the 19'. Does anybody know what the two holes are in the stern just above the wateline and just inboard of the rudders? I'm still working on my boat since I've purchased it and haven't had it in the water yet. I uploaded a photo (that I found, not my boat) of them to the photo album "M 19 shorts etc add anything you want". Anybody got any ideas?
                                                   
                                                  Tom
                                                  '92 19'
                                                  Northeast Ohio
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Randy Zerbe [mailto:astro27go@...]
                                                  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 4:47 PM
                                                  To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: M-19 Sunk

                                                  --- Another possible source of water leaking into the hull (besides
                                                  the hull been holed) is the motor well drain tube which drains out
                                                  through a thru-hull fitting on the aft end of the starboard side.
                                                  This could have pulled loose or split open. As the boat settled water
                                                  would come in the ballest tank vent if it were open thus increasing
                                                  the rate of flooding. On Windfall, I installed a tee- fitting into
                                                  this tube and ran the bilge pump outlet line high above the waterline
                                                  then to the tee so I could avoid drill more holes in the hull. I
                                                  double clamped everthing and this has work well.
                                                      I don't see how swamping a 19 would cause it to be a total loss.
                                                  Too bad about the OB though.       Good Luck, Randy



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                                                • Ron Buckles
                                                  Tom, I was wondering the same thing? Anyone figured out how the back end of the Mac 19 is built. I was going to look into it, but never did. (It is low on
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jul 10, 2003
                                                    Tom,
                                                    I was wondering the same thing? Anyone figured out
                                                    how the back end of the Mac 19 is built. I was going
                                                    to look into it, but never did. (It is low on my list
                                                    of things to do.)
                                                    Thanks,
                                                    Ron
                                                    --- Tom Garmon <tomg@...> wrote:
                                                    > ----Further exploring where the water came in to
                                                    > swamp the 19'. Does
                                                    > anybody know what the two holes are in the stern
                                                    > just above the wateline
                                                    > and just inboard of the rudders? I'm still working
                                                    > on my boat since I've
                                                    > purchased it and haven't had it in the water yet. I
                                                    > uploaded a photo
                                                    > (that I found, not my boat) of them to the photo
                                                    > album "M 19 shorts etc
                                                    > add anything you want". Anybody got any ideas?
                                                    >
                                                    > Tom
                                                    > '92 19'
                                                    > Northeast Ohio
                                                    >
                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: Randy Zerbe [mailto:astro27go@...]
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 4:47 PM
                                                    > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: M-19 Sunk
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- Another possible source of water leaking into
                                                    > the hull (besides
                                                    > the hull been holed) is the motor well drain tube
                                                    > which drains out
                                                    > through a thru-hull fitting on the aft end of the
                                                    > starboard side.
                                                    > This could have pulled loose or split open. As the
                                                    > boat settled water
                                                    > would come in the ballest tank vent if it were open
                                                    > thus increasing
                                                    > the rate of flooding. On Windfall, I installed a
                                                    > tee- fitting into
                                                    > this tube and ran the bilge pump outlet line high
                                                    > above the waterline
                                                    > then to the tee so I could avoid drill more holes in
                                                    > the hull. I
                                                    > double clamped everthing and this has work well.
                                                    > I don't see how swamping a 19 would cause it to
                                                    > be a total loss.
                                                    > Too bad about the OB though. Good Luck, Randy
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                  • Tom Garmon
                                                    Ron, I know......It just seems to me that a hole in the hull has one of two purposes......to let water/air in.....or let water/air out. Since I see no holes to
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Jul 10, 2003
                                                      Message
                                                      Ron,
                                                       
                                                      I know......It just seems to me that a hole in the hull has one of two purposes......to let water/air in.....or let water/air out. Since I see no holes to drain the cockpit lockers, (they drain though the notch in the bottom center to the motor well) I 'THINK' that the have to lead to the rudder post cavity in the hull. Although I can't see in there. Could these be the culprits?
                                                       
                                                      Tom
                                                      '92 19'
                                                      Northeast Ohio
                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: Ron Buckles [mailto:ronbuckles@...]
                                                      Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:47 AM
                                                      To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: RE: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: M-19 Sunk

                                                      Tom,
                                                      I was wondering the same thing?  Anyone figured out
                                                      how the back end of the Mac 19 is built.  I was going
                                                      to look into it, but never did.  (It is low on my list
                                                      of things to do.)
                                                      Thanks,
                                                      Ron
                                                      --- Tom Garmon <tomg@...> wrote:
                                                      > ----Further exploring where the water came in to
                                                      > swamp the 19'. Does
                                                      > anybody know what the two holes are in the stern
                                                      > just above the wateline
                                                      > and just inboard of the rudders? I'm still working
                                                      > on my boat since I've
                                                      > purchased it and haven't had it in the water yet. I
                                                      > uploaded a photo
                                                      > (that I found, not my boat) of them to the photo
                                                      > album "M 19 shorts etc
                                                      > add anything you want". Anybody got any ideas?

                                                      > Tom
                                                      > '92 19'
                                                      > Northeast Ohio
                                                      >
                                                    • angela michele
                                                      Funny, the same question came up yesterday when we were out sailing with Randy Zerbe who explained that they drain the small compartment around the rudder
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Jul 10, 2003
                                                        Funny, the same question came up yesterday when we
                                                        were out sailing with Randy Zerbe who explained that
                                                        they drain the small compartment around the rudder
                                                        tubes. They shouldn't leak into the hull unless
                                                        there's a crack. You could probably fill them with
                                                        water by pressing a garden hose against them and
                                                        seeing if you get water into the hull. I've also
                                                        filled the bilges with water to see if any leaked out
                                                        and done the same with the ballast tank. It did have
                                                        some leaks around the two bolts for the centerboard
                                                        and we've already previously discussed access to them
                                                        for resealing.

                                                        --- Ron Buckles <ronbuckles@...> wrote:
                                                        > Tom,
                                                        > I was wondering the same thing? Anyone figured out
                                                        > how the back end of the Mac 19 is built. I was
                                                        > going
                                                        > to look into it, but never did. (It is low on my
                                                        > list
                                                        > of things to do.)
                                                        > Thanks,
                                                        > Ron
                                                        > --- Tom Garmon <tomg@...>
                                                        > wrote:
                                                        > > ----Further exploring where the water came in to
                                                        > > swamp the 19'. Does
                                                        > > anybody know what the two holes are in the stern
                                                        > > just above the wateline
                                                        > > and just inboard of the rudders? I'm still working
                                                        > > on my boat since I've
                                                        > > purchased it and haven't had it in the water yet.
                                                        > I
                                                        > > uploaded a photo
                                                        > > (that I found, not my boat) of them to the photo
                                                        > > album "M 19 shorts etc
                                                        > > add anything you want". Anybody got any ideas?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Tom
                                                        > > '92 19'
                                                        > > Northeast Ohio
                                                        > >
                                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                                        > > From: Randy Zerbe [mailto:astro27go@...]
                                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 4:47 PM
                                                        > > To: macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Subject: [macgregor19sailboats] Re: M-19 Sunk
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- Another possible source of water leaking into
                                                        > > the hull (besides
                                                        > > the hull been holed) is the motor well drain tube
                                                        > > which drains out
                                                        > > through a thru-hull fitting on the aft end of the
                                                        > > starboard side.
                                                        > > This could have pulled loose or split open. As the
                                                        > > boat settled water
                                                        > > would come in the ballest tank vent if it were
                                                        > open
                                                        > > thus increasing
                                                        > > the rate of flooding. On Windfall, I installed a
                                                        > > tee- fitting into
                                                        > > this tube and ran the bilge pump outlet line high
                                                        > > above the waterline
                                                        > > then to the tee so I could avoid drill more holes
                                                        > in
                                                        > > the hull. I
                                                        > > double clamped everthing and this has work well.
                                                        > > I don't see how swamping a 19 would cause it
                                                        > to
                                                        > > be a total loss.
                                                        > > Too bad about the OB though. Good Luck,
                                                        > Randy
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
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                                                        >
                                                        065792:HM/A=1627012/R=0/SIG=111br2r2b/*http://www.boatcoversdirect.com>
                                                        > > click here
                                                        > >
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                                                        <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=255131.3358918.4715059.3294649/D=egrou
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                                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                        > > Terms of Service
                                                        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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