Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Mac19/26X?

Expand Messages
  • Chris
    So, in the last two or so weeks, I have been researching/engineering a sail configuration to use on my Mac19. Currently, I have the 3/4rig jib setup which
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      So, in the last two or so weeks, I have been researching/engineering
      a sail configuration to use on my Mac19. Currently, I have the
      3/4rig jib setup which doesn't do too much until the wind hits 15-
      20knots. Also, my boat has about 800lbs of extra weight, the
      majority of which is down low in the boat that I would like to call
      a "ballast supplement". Lastly, I retained the stock jib from my
      old 26X to possibly use on my Mac19.

      Mike Fortuna got back to me on the dimensions of the Hobie superjib
      that he has had good success with to add to my R&D. Mike, thanks
      very for the effort to measure your sail, and you should consider to
      post those dimensions to the board as I'm sure other people would
      benefit from that as well.

      Given the heavy nature of my boat and the general poor light wind
      performance of the Mac19, I wanted to go with the largest headsail
      that I could fit onto my boat. At this point, I have good reason to
      believe the Mac26X headsails would work well. The genoa would be
      used from 5-15knots with the full Mac19 main (drifter setup), the
      jib would then go on from 10-20knots, and the stock 3/4rig jib could
      be utilized as a storm jib along with the reef mainsail in anything
      from 20knots+. I will need to play with mast rake to maintain good
      balance and reduce the weatherhelm during gusts. I did this on my
      26X with surprisingly good results. Below are the dimensions of
      everything I've been working with FYI. They are listed as
      luff,leech,foot in units of feet.inches.

      Mac19

      Jib: 24.9, 21.3, 7.7
      Genoa: 25.0, 22.6, 13.1
      Main: 20.4, 21.2, 8.2
      3/4Jib: 19, 15.6, 7.6 (measured myself)
      3/4Genoa: 19.4, 16, 14.8

      Mac26X

      Jib: 25.4, 21.6, 11.9
      Genoa: 25.4, 22.8, 16.9

      Again, I plan on having the Mac19-mainsail, Mac19-3/4Jib, Mac26X-
      Genoa and Mac26X-Jib as my final sail inventory. All I need to get
      is the Mac26X-genoa to be there along with various blocks and
      rigging to get it to fit.

      I welcome all feedback as I don't want to spend alot of money on a
      sail I can't use. Thanks!
    • eo_ant
      I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but in case you missed it the local dealer told me that several years ago they put a M26 classic sail rig on a
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but in case you missed it
        the local dealer told me that several years ago they put a M26 classic
        sail rig on a M19. I worked fine and helped the 19 sail better in
        light winds. The stays were the same length so it was an easy swap.
        They did have to eliminate the back stay to accomodate the longer
        boom. With the extra weight in your boat that setup might work well.
        But this probably doesn't help you too much since it would mean
        getting a new mast and boom.

        Have you thought about simply putting the biggest jib sail on a roller
        furhling. Easier handling, but sail shape not as good as it would be
        with changing sails. But maybe in higher winds sail shape isn't as
        important as it is in light wind conditions, and with the sail all the
        way out sail shape should be good.

        Eric

        --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cbhinkel2@c...>
        wrote:
        > So, in the last two or so weeks, I have been researching/engineering
        > a sail configuration to use on my Mac19. Currently, I have the
        > 3/4rig jib setup which doesn't do too much until the wind hits 15-
        > 20knots. Also, my boat has about 800lbs of extra weight, the
        > majority of which is down low in the boat that I would like to call
        > a "ballast supplement". Lastly, I retained the stock jib from my
        > old 26X to possibly use on my Mac19.
        >
        > Mike Fortuna got back to me on the dimensions of the Hobie superjib
        > that he has had good success with to add to my R&D. Mike, thanks
        > very for the effort to measure your sail, and you should consider to
        > post those dimensions to the board as I'm sure other people would
        > benefit from that as well.
        >
        > Given the heavy nature of my boat and the general poor light wind
        > performance of the Mac19, I wanted to go with the largest headsail
        > that I could fit onto my boat. At this point, I have good reason to
        > believe the Mac26X headsails would work well. The genoa would be
        > used from 5-15knots with the full Mac19 main (drifter setup), the
        > jib would then go on from 10-20knots, and the stock 3/4rig jib could
        > be utilized as a storm jib along with the reef mainsail in anything
        > from 20knots+. I will need to play with mast rake to maintain good
        > balance and reduce the weatherhelm during gusts. I did this on my
        > 26X with surprisingly good results. Below are the dimensions of
        > everything I've been working with FYI. They are listed as
        > luff,leech,foot in units of feet.inches.
        >
        > Mac19
        >
        > Jib: 24.9, 21.3, 7.7
        > Genoa: 25.0, 22.6, 13.1
        > Main: 20.4, 21.2, 8.2
        > 3/4Jib: 19, 15.6, 7.6 (measured myself)
        > 3/4Genoa: 19.4, 16, 14.8
        >
        > Mac26X
        >
        > Jib: 25.4, 21.6, 11.9
        > Genoa: 25.4, 22.8, 16.9
        >
        > Again, I plan on having the Mac19-mainsail, Mac19-3/4Jib, Mac26X-
        > Genoa and Mac26X-Jib as my final sail inventory. All I need to get
        > is the Mac26X-genoa to be there along with various blocks and
        > rigging to get it to fit.
        >
        > I welcome all feedback as I don't want to spend alot of money on a
        > sail I can't use. Thanks!
      • Chris
        Hi Eric, Yeah, I certainly did see your post on this subject, and it was very useful for me as well. Thanks for passing it along to us. It was actually this
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Eric,

          Yeah, I certainly did see your post on this subject, and it was very
          useful for me as well. Thanks for passing it along to us. It was
          actually this information that sparked my initiative to devise a
          better sailing Mac19 for myself. I looked up the specs for the
          Mac26C and the Mac25, and they are listed below for anyone who might
          be considering this.

          Mac26C sails

          Jib: 23.6, 19.1, 9.8
          Genoa: 23.6, 21.6, 15.7
          Main: 24.9, 26.2, 10.1
          Aftermarket drifter: 23.6, 22, 17.5

          Mac25

          Jib: 23.6, 19.1, 10.2
          Genoa: 23.6, 21.1, 16.9
          Main: 24.9, 26.6, 10.1

          As you can see in combination to my original post here, the Mac26C
          sails were slightly smaller, and I wanted something that would be
          the biggest headsail that would fit on the Mac19. Being that I
          already had a Mac26X jib, that started me off biased to the Mac26X
          anyhow. I just got lucky that it appears the Mac26X sails will
          fit. Additionally, I
          had experience with the Mac26X genoa, and I thought it would perform
          well on my boat, being that it's a genoa designed for a powersailer
          type of boat. Lastly, I did not want to increase the mainsail
          size as that would definitely contribute to more weather helm.
          However, my 3/4rig setup doesn't use a backstay and I will be
          keeping that aspect since I like to fish out of the cockpit.

          Also, I had a rolling furling with the genoa on my 26X. First off,
          it's huge PITA to raise the mast without a mast raising system with
          all of the extra weight, and to secure it for trailering is more
          complicated as well. This adds at least 10minutes to the whole
          rigging process. I really wanted something that I could put up and
          down by myself quickly and easily. Secondly, I didn't really need
          to furl in the genoa that often with the lighter wind conditions in
          San Diego. The times that I did, it was obvious from the start of
          the day that the winds were going to be brisk. Although, I've seen
          this "snap-on" roller furling system, and I might consider that once
          I see its function in person.

          This is a longshot, but I'm hoping my boat will be faster than a 26X
          in the same conditions and sail use. The displacement hydrodynamics
          says that it won't, but I think my mostly powerboat hull tosses that
          out the window. Then there's that sailing quickly while on a plane
          that some powersailers have reported. I've never personally
          achieved this, but now there's hope! :>)

          -Chris


          --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "eo_ant" <eric@h...>
          wrote:
          > I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but in case you
          missed it
          > the local dealer told me that several years ago they put a M26
          classic
          > sail rig on a M19. I worked fine and helped the 19 sail better in
          > light winds. The stays were the same length so it was an easy swap.
          > They did have to eliminate the back stay to accomodate the longer
          > boom. With the extra weight in your boat that setup might work
          well.
          > But this probably doesn't help you too much since it would mean
          > getting a new mast and boom.
          >
          > Have you thought about simply putting the biggest jib sail on a
          roller
          > furhling. Easier handling, but sail shape not as good as it would
          be
          > with changing sails. But maybe in higher winds sail shape isn't as
          > important as it is in light wind conditions, and with the sail all
          the
          > way out sail shape should be good.
          >
          > Eric
          >
          > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Chris"
          <cbhinkel2@c...>
          > wrote:
          > > So, in the last two or so weeks, I have been
          researching/engineering
          > > a sail configuration to use on my Mac19. Currently, I have the
          > > 3/4rig jib setup which doesn't do too much until the wind hits
          15-
          > > 20knots. Also, my boat has about 800lbs of extra weight, the
          > > majority of which is down low in the boat that I would like to
          call
          > > a "ballast supplement". Lastly, I retained the stock jib from
          my
          > > old 26X to possibly use on my Mac19.
          > >
          > > Mike Fortuna got back to me on the dimensions of the Hobie
          superjib
          > > that he has had good success with to add to my R&D. Mike,
          thanks
          > > very for the effort to measure your sail, and you should
          consider to
          > > post those dimensions to the board as I'm sure other people
          would
          > > benefit from that as well.
          > >
          > > Given the heavy nature of my boat and the general poor light
          wind
          > > performance of the Mac19, I wanted to go with the largest
          headsail
          > > that I could fit onto my boat. At this point, I have good
          reason to
          > > believe the Mac26X headsails would work well. The genoa would
          be
          > > used from 5-15knots with the full Mac19 main (drifter setup),
          the
          > > jib would then go on from 10-20knots, and the stock 3/4rig jib
          could
          > > be utilized as a storm jib along with the reef mainsail in
          anything
          > > from 20knots+. I will need to play with mast rake to maintain
          good
          > > balance and reduce the weatherhelm during gusts. I did this on
          my
          > > 26X with surprisingly good results. Below are the dimensions of
          > > everything I've been working with FYI. They are listed as
          > > luff,leech,foot in units of feet.inches.
          > >
          > > Mac19
          > >
          > > Jib: 24.9, 21.3, 7.7
          > > Genoa: 25.0, 22.6, 13.1
          > > Main: 20.4, 21.2, 8.2
          > > 3/4Jib: 19, 15.6, 7.6 (measured myself)
          > > 3/4Genoa: 19.4, 16, 14.8
          > >
          > > Mac26X
          > >
          > > Jib: 25.4, 21.6, 11.9
          > > Genoa: 25.4, 22.8, 16.9
          > >
          > > Again, I plan on having the Mac19-mainsail, Mac19-3/4Jib, Mac26X-
          > > Genoa and Mac26X-Jib as my final sail inventory. All I need to
          get
          > > is the Mac26X-genoa to be there along with various blocks and
          > > rigging to get it to fit.
          > >
          > > I welcome all feedback as I don't want to spend alot of money on
          a
          > > sail I can't use. Thanks!
        • eo_ant
          Chris, I agree with you about the roller reefing gear making the mast more difficult to raise and lower. That s too bad. If you do find that the snap-on system
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 3, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Chris,

            I agree with you about the roller reefing gear making the mast more
            difficult to raise and lower. That's too bad. If you do find that the
            snap-on system you saw looks promising, I hope you will pass the
            information along. The roller reefing system most of us have would be
            fine if the boat was moored with mast always up, but sure does
            complicate raising, lowering, and trailering.

            Here's one more bit of info that might be useful. I talked to someone
            who used to own a M19 and sail it on Puget Sound which often has
            fairly light winds during the summer months. He had a couple of 50 or
            more pound sand bags that he would put on the V berth up front for
            ballast and balance. Then in light wind he sailed without filling the
            ballast tank. This helped with speed in light wind and did not seem
            too risky to him from a stability standpoint.

            With your 30 gal bow water tank and additional weight down low as long
            as it is well secured so that it won't shift while heeling seems like
            not filling the ballast tank should be a viable option for you in
            light wind.

            I'm thinking about maybe a second battery and a 10 gal water tank in
            the bow under the V berth to serve the same purpose. Why use sand when
            that extra weight could go towards something that would make the
            boating that much more fun?

            With your CB line in the cockpit seems like it should be easier for
            you to adjust the balance of the boat to suit different sail
            configurations. It will be interesting to see a report after you give
            the different sails a try. It would be really sweet to find a setup
            that would let the M19 sail as well as 26X or 26M. I wonder how a M19
            would do with a 26M roating mast and sails.

            Eric


            --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cbhinkel2@c...>
            wrote:
            > Hi Eric,
            >
            > Yeah, I certainly did see your post on this subject, and it was very
            > useful for me as well. Thanks for passing it along to us. It was
            > actually this information that sparked my initiative to devise a
            > better sailing Mac19 for myself. I looked up the specs for the
            > Mac26C and the Mac25, and they are listed below for anyone who might
            > be considering this.
            >
            > Mac26C sails
            >
            > Jib: 23.6, 19.1, 9.8
            > Genoa: 23.6, 21.6, 15.7
            > Main: 24.9, 26.2, 10.1
            > Aftermarket drifter: 23.6, 22, 17.5
            >
            > Mac25
            >
            > Jib: 23.6, 19.1, 10.2
            > Genoa: 23.6, 21.1, 16.9
            > Main: 24.9, 26.6, 10.1
            >
            > As you can see in combination to my original post here, the Mac26C
            > sails were slightly smaller, and I wanted something that would be
            > the biggest headsail that would fit on the Mac19. Being that I
            > already had a Mac26X jib, that started me off biased to the Mac26X
            > anyhow. I just got lucky that it appears the Mac26X sails will
            > fit. Additionally, I
            > had experience with the Mac26X genoa, and I thought it would perform
            > well on my boat, being that it's a genoa designed for a powersailer
            > type of boat. Lastly, I did not want to increase the mainsail
            > size as that would definitely contribute to more weather helm.
            > However, my 3/4rig setup doesn't use a backstay and I will be
            > keeping that aspect since I like to fish out of the cockpit.
            >
            > Also, I had a rolling furling with the genoa on my 26X. First off,
            > it's huge PITA to raise the mast without a mast raising system with
            > all of the extra weight, and to secure it for trailering is more
            > complicated as well. This adds at least 10minutes to the whole
            > rigging process. I really wanted something that I could put up and
            > down by myself quickly and easily. Secondly, I didn't really need
            > to furl in the genoa that often with the lighter wind conditions in
            > San Diego. The times that I did, it was obvious from the start of
            > the day that the winds were going to be brisk. Although, I've seen
            > this "snap-on" roller furling system, and I might consider that once
            > I see its function in person.
            >
            > This is a longshot, but I'm hoping my boat will be faster than a 26X
            > in the same conditions and sail use. The displacement hydrodynamics
            > says that it won't, but I think my mostly powerboat hull tosses that
            > out the window. Then there's that sailing quickly while on a plane
            > that some powersailers have reported. I've never personally
            > achieved this, but now there's hope! :>)
            >
            > -Chris
            >
            >
            > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "eo_ant" <eric@h...>
            > wrote:
            > > I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but in case you
            > missed it
            > > the local dealer told me that several years ago they put a M26
            > classic
            > > sail rig on a M19. I worked fine and helped the 19 sail better in
            > > light winds. The stays were the same length so it was an easy swap.
            > > They did have to eliminate the back stay to accomodate the longer
            > > boom. With the extra weight in your boat that setup might work
            > well.
            > > But this probably doesn't help you too much since it would mean
            > > getting a new mast and boom.
            > >
            > > Have you thought about simply putting the biggest jib sail on a
            > roller
            > > furhling. Easier handling, but sail shape not as good as it would
            > be
            > > with changing sails. But maybe in higher winds sail shape isn't as
            > > important as it is in light wind conditions, and with the sail all
            > the
            > > way out sail shape should be good.
            > >
            > > Eric
            > >
            > > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Chris"
            > <cbhinkel2@c...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > So, in the last two or so weeks, I have been
            > researching/engineering
            > > > a sail configuration to use on my Mac19. Currently, I have the
            > > > 3/4rig jib setup which doesn't do too much until the wind hits
            > 15-
            > > > 20knots. Also, my boat has about 800lbs of extra weight, the
            > > > majority of which is down low in the boat that I would like to
            > call
            > > > a "ballast supplement". Lastly, I retained the stock jib from
            > my
            > > > old 26X to possibly use on my Mac19.
            > > >
            > > > Mike Fortuna got back to me on the dimensions of the Hobie
            > superjib
            > > > that he has had good success with to add to my R&D. Mike,
            > thanks
            > > > very for the effort to measure your sail, and you should
            > consider to
            > > > post those dimensions to the board as I'm sure other people
            > would
            > > > benefit from that as well.
            > > >
            > > > Given the heavy nature of my boat and the general poor light
            > wind
            > > > performance of the Mac19, I wanted to go with the largest
            > headsail
            > > > that I could fit onto my boat. At this point, I have good
            > reason to
            > > > believe the Mac26X headsails would work well. The genoa would
            > be
            > > > used from 5-15knots with the full Mac19 main (drifter setup),
            > the
            > > > jib would then go on from 10-20knots, and the stock 3/4rig jib
            > could
            > > > be utilized as a storm jib along with the reef mainsail in
            > anything
            > > > from 20knots+. I will need to play with mast rake to maintain
            > good
            > > > balance and reduce the weatherhelm during gusts. I did this on
            > my
            > > > 26X with surprisingly good results. Below are the dimensions of
            > > > everything I've been working with FYI. They are listed as
            > > > luff,leech,foot in units of feet.inches.
            > > >
            > > > Mac19
            > > >
            > > > Jib: 24.9, 21.3, 7.7
            > > > Genoa: 25.0, 22.6, 13.1
            > > > Main: 20.4, 21.2, 8.2
            > > > 3/4Jib: 19, 15.6, 7.6 (measured myself)
            > > > 3/4Genoa: 19.4, 16, 14.8
            > > >
            > > > Mac26X
            > > >
            > > > Jib: 25.4, 21.6, 11.9
            > > > Genoa: 25.4, 22.8, 16.9
            > > >
            > > > Again, I plan on having the Mac19-mainsail, Mac19-3/4Jib, Mac26X-
            > > > Genoa and Mac26X-Jib as my final sail inventory. All I need to
            > get
            > > > is the Mac26X-genoa to be there along with various blocks and
            > > > rigging to get it to fit.
            > > >
            > > > I welcome all feedback as I don't want to spend alot of money on
            > a
            > > > sail I can't use. Thanks!
          • Ron Buckles
            We found the v-berth be useless unless you have kids that need a place to sleep. So we put the v-berth cushions into stoage and place a net across the
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 3, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              We found the v-berth be useless unless you have kids that need a
              place to sleep. So we put the v-berth cushions into stoage and place
              a net across the opening. In went everything: sails, storm gear,
              sleeping bags, etc., etc. (See in photos, under 'Ron's SeaKerr'.)
              This extra weight helped in the trailering, but I did not realize
              that it helped in light wind.

              Ron

              --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "eo_ant" <eric@h...>
              wrote:
              > Chris,
              >
              > I agree with you about the roller reefing gear making the mast more
              > difficult to raise and lower. That's too bad. If you do find that
              the
              > snap-on system you saw looks promising, I hope you will pass the
              > information along. The roller reefing system most of us have would
              be
              > fine if the boat was moored with mast always up, but sure does
              > complicate raising, lowering, and trailering.
              >
              > Here's one more bit of info that might be useful. I talked to
              someone
              > who used to own a M19 and sail it on Puget Sound which often has
              > fairly light winds during the summer months. He had a couple of 50
              or
              > more pound sand bags that he would put on the V berth up front for
              > ballast and balance. Then in light wind he sailed without filling
              the
              > ballast tank. This helped with speed in light wind and did not seem
              > too risky to him from a stability standpoint.
              >
              > With your 30 gal bow water tank and additional weight down low as
              long
              > as it is well secured so that it won't shift while heeling seems
              like
              > not filling the ballast tank should be a viable option for you in
              > light wind.
              >
              > I'm thinking about maybe a second battery and a 10 gal water tank in
              > the bow under the V berth to serve the same purpose. Why use sand
              when
              > that extra weight could go towards something that would make the
              > boating that much more fun?
              >
              > With your CB line in the cockpit seems like it should be easier for
              > you to adjust the balance of the boat to suit different sail
              > configurations. It will be interesting to see a report after you
              give
              > the different sails a try. It would be really sweet to find a setup
              > that would let the M19 sail as well as 26X or 26M. I wonder how a
              M19
              > would do with a 26M roating mast and sails.
              >
              > Eric
            • eo_ant
              Ron, The weight in you bow does not sound like it was concentrated as low as possible like a sand bag would be on or under the V berth. Have you tried sailing
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 6, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Ron,

                The weight in you bow does not sound like it was concentrated as low
                as possible like a sand bag would be on or under the V berth.

                Have you tried sailing without water in your ballast tank in light
                winds? Without water in the ballast tank the motor, fuel, and human
                ballast in the cockpit becomes a lot bigger portion of the total
                weight. Having some weight forward helps to balance the fore and aft
                weight distribution. Having it low helps in the same way filling the
                ballast tank does.

                Eric




                --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Buckles"
                <ronbuckles@y...> wrote:
                > We found the v-berth be useless unless you have kids that need a
                > place to sleep. So we put the v-berth cushions into stoage and place
                > a net across the opening. In went everything: sails, storm gear,
                > sleeping bags, etc., etc. (See in photos, under 'Ron's SeaKerr'.)
                > This extra weight helped in the trailering, but I did not realize
                > that it helped in light wind.
                >
                > Ron
              • kevinmeylor
                I found it helped a lot when we installed a 2nd battery -- I put both batteries in the most forward access port of the v-berth. Helped reduce weather helm,
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 6, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  I found it helped a lot when we installed a 2nd battery -- I put both
                  batteries in the most forward access port of the v-berth. Helped
                  reduce weather helm, etc. I'd like to add a permenant water tank
                  there as well, again keeping the weight forward and low.

                  --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "eo_ant" <eric@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > Ron,
                  >
                  > The weight in you bow does not sound like it was concentrated as low
                  > as possible like a sand bag would be on or under the V berth.
                  >
                  > Have you tried sailing without water in your ballast tank in light
                  > winds? Without water in the ballast tank the motor, fuel, and human
                  > ballast in the cockpit becomes a lot bigger portion of the total
                  > weight. Having some weight forward helps to balance the fore and aft
                  > weight distribution. Having it low helps in the same way filling the
                  > ballast tank does.
                  >
                  > Eric
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In macgregor19sailboats@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Buckles"
                  > <ronbuckles@y...> wrote:
                  > > We found the v-berth be useless unless you have kids that need a
                  > > place to sleep. So we put the v-berth cushions into stoage and
                  place
                  > > a net across the opening. In went everything: sails, storm gear,
                  > > sleeping bags, etc., etc. (See in photos, under 'Ron's SeaKerr'.)
                  > > This extra weight helped in the trailering, but I did not realize
                  > > that it helped in light wind.
                  > >
                  > > Ron
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.