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EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer

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  • ChuckP98
    Hi everyone, I m glad to see so many people still have interest in this ol chip. I a couple of questions for you knowledgeable folks out there who have more
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 3 9:00 PM
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      Hi everyone, I'm glad to see so many people still have interest in this
      ol' chip.

      I a couple of questions for you knowledgeable folks out there who have
      more experience with this mcu than myself. I've posted (long ago) about
      a problem I've had interfacing a circa 1990 M68HC11EVBU with 32k SRAM
      and 32k flash EEPROM. I have a E1 PLCC chip in place of the traditional
      E9 that comes with the EVBU. I've wirewrapped the SRAM, EEPROM, and
      adjoining logic to the mcu and also soldered a LM7805 regulator for my
      power supply.

      Now the problem is, I can't seem to get the in-system-programming (ISP)
      to work to write to the EEPROM no matter what software I use, HCLOAD,
      IC11, etc. I believe I have my design correct since I am able to
      run my previously burned (with a EEPROM programmer) code to run when
      I set it to expanded mode. And I know for a fact that I have done
      nearly the same exact setup on a breadboard and have gotten it to work
      fairly reliably. But the problem occurs whenever I try to
      place the device in bootstrap mode for programming. It always sends
      the program to the boostrap RAM, but seems to fail right after that.

      Also, since the code on the external EEPROM right now is a SRAM checker
      it verifies that SRAM is ok. I have verified this fact with defective
      as well as good SRAM chips.

      Are there any precautions I should be aware of when using the E1 chip
      with external flash EEPROM? Or with ISP? Or with the EVBU? What am I
      doing wrong?

      Any help would be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance.

      -EngrForLife
    • Triffid Hunter
      ... Not sure what your problem is, but if you want some more code to test with, check out my site at http://hc11-ide.funkmunch.net specifically the code in
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 4 12:12 AM
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        On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:00:22 +1000, ChuckP98 <chuckp98@...> wrote:

        > Hi everyone, I'm glad to see so many people still have interest in this
        > ol' chip.
        >
        > I a couple of questions for you knowledgeable folks out there who have
        > more experience with this mcu than myself. I've posted (long ago) about
        > a problem I've had interfacing a circa 1990 M68HC11EVBU with 32k SRAM
        > and 32k flash EEPROM. I have a E1 PLCC chip in place of the traditional
        > E9 that comes with the EVBU. I've wirewrapped the SRAM, EEPROM, and
        > adjoining logic to the mcu and also soldered a LM7805 regulator for my
        > power supply.
        >
        > Now the problem is, I can't seem to get the in-system-programming (ISP)
        > to work to write to the EEPROM no matter what software I use, HCLOAD,
        > IC11, etc. I believe I have my design correct since I am able to
        > run my previously burned (with a EEPROM programmer) code to run when
        > I set it to expanded mode. And I know for a fact that I have done
        > nearly the same exact setup on a breadboard and have gotten it to work
        > fairly reliably. But the problem occurs whenever I try to
        > place the device in bootstrap mode for programming. It always sends
        > the program to the boostrap RAM, but seems to fail right after that.
        >
        > Also, since the code on the external EEPROM right now is a SRAM checker
        > it verifies that SRAM is ok. I have verified this fact with defective
        > as well as good SRAM chips.
        >
        > Are there any precautions I should be aware of when using the E1 chip
        > with external flash EEPROM? Or with ISP? Or with the EVBU? What am I
        > doing wrong?
        >
        > Any help would be greatly appreciated and I thank you all in advance.
        >
        > -EngrForLife

        Not sure what your problem is, but if you want some more code to test
        with, check out my site at http://hc11-ide.funkmunch.net specifically the
        code in newbrain/

        I have another talker you could try, as well as makefiles and perl scripts
        that verify data integrity at every step of the way

        A logic analyser may be able to give you some useful data.
      • Mike McCarty
        ChuckP98 wrote: [snip] ... Well, I didn t reply because I couldn t understand what your problem was, and figured someone else might be better able to help.
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 4 9:21 AM
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          ChuckP98 wrote:

          [snip]

          > Now the problem is, I can't seem to get the in-system-programming (ISP)
          > to work to write to the EEPROM no matter what software I use, HCLOAD,
          > IC11, etc. I believe I have my design correct since I am able to
          > run my previously burned (with a EEPROM programmer) code to run when
          > I set it to expanded mode. And I know for a fact that I have done
          > nearly the same exact setup on a breadboard and have gotten it to work
          > fairly reliably. But the problem occurs whenever I try to
          > place the device in bootstrap mode for programming. It always sends
          > the program to the boostrap RAM, but seems to fail right after that.

          Well, I didn't reply because I couldn't understand what your problem
          was, and figured someone else might be better able to help. Since
          your only other reply so far is also confused, I'll take a stab...

          Please describe

          (1) what tools you use
          (2) what actions you perform
          (3) what you expect to happen
          (4) what actually happens

          [snip]

          Mike
          --
          p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
          Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
          This message made from 100% recycled bits.
          You have found the bank of Larn.
          I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
          I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
        • ChuckP98
          Hi again guys, sorry if I didn t explain it well enough, I guess that I a bit confused with what s going on myself. Okay, here s the whole thing from the very
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 4 10:26 AM
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            Hi again guys, sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, I guess that
            I a bit confused with what's going on myself.

            Okay, here's the whole thing from the very beginning. I bought a
            M68HC11EVBU last summer, and I had an old design with which I wanted
            incorporated with it, namely I wanted to expand the memory of the HC11
            by adding external 32K SRAM and 32K FLASH EEPROM. The SRAM takes up
            the 0x0000-0x7FFF space of the memory map and the EEPROM takes up the
            0x8000-0xFFFF space.

            I am using D43256AC NEC SRAM and AMD AM19F010B +5V programmable FLASH
            EEPROM. I socketed all the chips, and wire-wrapped the board
            complying with the expanded mode configuration in the "big white book"
            (PG. 112, M68HC11RM/D REV. 6 4/2002). However, I changed the design a
            bit, and I just used A15 to act as the chip enable for both chips so I
            can split the 64K address space in half. This way I don't need to use
            a HC138 decoder. I used this same design previously with an A2 and it
            worked great. I am generating the !WR signal by NANDing the E clock
            and an inverted R/!W signal, to generate the !RD signal I am NANDing
            the E clock and the R/!W.

            I have not done anything to the original EVBU circuitry itself besides
            add power through a LM7805 regulator that is on the wire-wrap portion
            of the board. All chips are bypassed with 100 nF caps.

            I tested the board by flashing the EEPROM (using an EEPROM burner)
            with a RAM checker that I use for debugging. It worked fine and
            everything turned out as I expected when just reading from the
            external EEPROM.

            Now, when I try to use ICC11 or HCLOAD or any type of tool which is
            able to program the external flash EEPROM, it doesn't work. In HCLOAD
            it says I have an "Error in EEPROM", and in IC11, it says:

            "Loading bootstrap program into internal RAM at 1200 baud, bootstrap
            file: bootext.s19
            sync'ing with bootstrap program
            Programming user program C:\icc\examples.11\hello.s19 at 9600 baud
            Please Wait...timeout waiting for <0x8E>
            Bootstrap Error during Programming user program"

            I am also using a DB25 to DB9 converter to connect my board to my
            computer.

            What I would expect to happen is to have my *.s19 files burned
            correctly onto the external flash EEPROM. I am probably missing a
            step or something small like a jumper or a cut-trace, however I am
            unsure of what it might be.

            Sorry again for the confusion, I hope this gives a better
            understanding of what I am trying to do.

            Thanks again,
            Chuck
          • BobGardner@aol.com
            I have written a couple of little bootable programs for various flavors of hc11... maybe you need a custom eeprom burner that reads the srecords from the
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 4 10:37 AM
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              I have written a couple of little bootable programs for various flavors of hc11... maybe you need a custom eeprom burner that reads the srecords from the serial port and burns your external eeprom... 10ms per byte right?


              -----Original Message-----
              From: chuckp98@...
              To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 1:26 PM
              Subject: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer


              Hi again guys, sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, I guess that
              I a bit confused with what's going on myself.

              Okay, here's the whole thing from the very beginning. I bought a
              M68HC11EVBU last summer, and I had an old design with which I wanted
              incorporated with it, namely I wanted to expand the memory of the HC11
              by adding external 32K SRAM and 32K FLASH EEPROM. The SRAM takes up
              the 0x0000-0x7FFF space of the memory map and the EEPROM takes up the
              0x8000-0xFFFF space.

              I am using D43256AC NEC SRAM and AMD AM19F010B +5V programmable FLASH
              EEPROM. I socketed all the chips, and wire-wrapped the board
              complying with the expanded mode configuration in the "big white book"
              (PG. 112, M68HC11RM/D REV. 6 4/2002). However, I changed the design a
              bit, and I just used A15 to act as the chip enable for both chips so I
              can split the 64K address space in half. This way I don't need to use
              a HC138 decoder. I used this same design previously with an A2 and it
              worked great. I am generating the !WR signal by NANDing the E clock
              and an inverted R/!W signal, to generate the !RD signal I am NANDing
              the E clock and the R/!W.

              I have not done anything to the original EVBU circuitry itself besides
              add power through a LM7805 regulator that is on the wire-wrap portion
              of the board. All chips are bypassed with 100 nF caps.

              I tested the board by flashing the EEPROM (using an EEPROM burner)
              with a RAM checker that I use for debugging. It worked fine and
              everything turned out as I expected when just reading from the
              external EEPROM.

              Now, when I try to use ICC11 or HCLOAD or any type of tool which is
              able to program the external flash EEPROM, it doesn't work. In HCLOAD
              it says I have an "Error in EEPROM", and in IC11, it says:

              "Loading bootstrap program into internal RAM at 1200 baud, bootstrap
              file: bootext.s19
              sync'ing with bootstrap program
              Programming user program C:\icc\examples.11\hello.s19 at 9600 baud
              Please Wait...timeout waiting for <0x8E>
              Bootstrap Error during Programming user program"

              I am also using a DB25 to DB9 converter to connect my board to my
              computer.

              What I would expect to happen is to have my *.s19 files burned
              correctly onto the external flash EEPROM. I am probably missing a
              step or something small like a jumper or a cut-trace, however I am
              unsure of what it might be.

              Sorry again for the confusion, I hope this gives a better
              understanding of what I am trying to do.

              Thanks again,
              Chuck




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            • ChuckP98
              Yes actually, that sounds about right. I am thinking that most programs I use to write my eeprom are incompatible with my setup. Reading in the *.s19 files
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 4 10:55 AM
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                Yes actually, that sounds about right. I am thinking that most
                programs I use to write my eeprom are incompatible with my setup.
                Reading in the *.s19 files directly from serial port to EEPROM is the
                type of setup a friend of mine used in a custom board he worked on,
                and I believe 10 ms per byte was what he used for the writing delay.

                Would I be able to try your bootloader? :) Or if not, could you maybe
                point me in the right direction for creating my own bootloader? I've
                never written one before.

                Thanks again,
                Chuck



                --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups.com, BobGardner@... wrote:
                >
                > I have written a couple of little bootable programs for various
                flavors of hc11... maybe you need a custom eeprom burner that reads
                the srecords from the serial port and burns your external eeprom...
                10ms per byte right?
                >
                >
              • Mike McCarty
                ... Sounds reasonable. Is there a URL which could be used to download your schematic? [snip] ... This sounds correct. [snip] ... No, this does not sound
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 4 12:26 PM
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                  ChuckP98 wrote:
                  > Hi again guys, sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, I guess that
                  > I a bit confused with what's going on myself.
                  >
                  > Okay, here's the whole thing from the very beginning. I bought a
                  > M68HC11EVBU last summer, and I had an old design with which I wanted
                  > incorporated with it, namely I wanted to expand the memory of the HC11
                  > by adding external 32K SRAM and 32K FLASH EEPROM. The SRAM takes up
                  > the 0x0000-0x7FFF space of the memory map and the EEPROM takes up the
                  > 0x8000-0xFFFF space.

                  Sounds reasonable. Is there a URL which could be used to download
                  your schematic?

                  [snip]

                  > worked great. I am generating the !WR signal by NANDing the E clock
                  > and an inverted R/!W signal, to generate the !RD signal I am NANDing
                  > the E clock and the R/!W.

                  This sounds correct.

                  [snip]

                  > Now, when I try to use ICC11 or HCLOAD or any type of tool which is
                  > able to program the external flash EEPROM, it doesn't work. In HCLOAD
                  > it says I have an "Error in EEPROM", and in IC11, it says:

                  No, this does not sound correct. You seem to be using incorrect tools
                  for your hardware.

                  > "Loading bootstrap program into internal RAM at 1200 baud, bootstrap
                  > file: bootext.s19
                  > sync'ing with bootstrap program
                  > Programming user program C:\icc\examples.11\hello.s19 at 9600 baud
                  > Please Wait...timeout waiting for <0x8E>
                  > Bootstrap Error during Programming user program"

                  This looks like errors from a EEPROM burning program.
                  Note that while FLASH is a type of EEPROM, not all EEPROM is
                  FLASH. FLASH can only be programmed sector by sector, not
                  a byte at a time. You seem to be using a program which knows
                  how to burn "normal" EEPROM, which one does just like writing
                  to RAM, and them polling for completion status. Your program
                  seems not to understand FLASH.

                  > I am also using a DB25 to DB9 converter to connect my board to my
                  > computer.
                  >
                  > What I would expect to happen is to have my *.s19 files burned
                  > correctly onto the external flash EEPROM. I am probably missing a
                  > step or something small like a jumper or a cut-trace, however I am
                  > unsure of what it might be.

                  Again, FLASH EEPROM and EEPROM, while essentially the same
                  underlying technology, have different programming requirements.

                  > Sorry again for the confusion, I hope this gives a better
                  > understanding of what I am trying to do.
                  >
                  > Thanks again,
                  > Chuck
                  >
                  >

                  HTH

                  Mike
                  --
                  p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                  Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                  This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                  You have found the bank of Larn.
                  I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                  I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                • Mike McCarty
                  ... This does not sound like what he described. He has FLASH, not regular EEPROM. BTW, EEPROM usually takes 2ms per byte in byte mode, and usually only 2ms per
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 4 12:29 PM
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                    BobGardner@... wrote:
                    > I have written a couple of little bootable programs for various
                    > flavors of hc11... maybe you need a custom eeprom burner that reads
                    > the srecords from the serial port and burns your external eeprom...
                    > 10ms per byte right?

                    This does not sound like what he described. He has FLASH, not regular
                    EEPROM. BTW, EEPROM usually takes 2ms per byte in byte mode, and
                    usually only 2ms per 64 bytes when in page mode.

                    [snip huge unnecessary quote]

                    Mike
                    --
                    p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                    Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                    This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                    You have found the bank of Larn.
                    I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                    I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                  • ChuckP98
                    AHA!!!! You guys were totally right. I got it to burn my EEPROM using my buddies TERATERM script which loads the talker files (BIN format) to the bootstrapped
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 4 1:24 PM
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                      AHA!!!! You guys were totally right. I got it to burn my EEPROM using
                      my buddies TERATERM script which loads the talker files (BIN format)
                      to the bootstrapped HC11E1. It then sends my newly compiled *.s19
                      file over and writes them from the SCI to the FLASH memory.

                      Mike was right since the two technologies are different, I could not
                      possibly have programmed the external FLASH with the tools I was
                      using. I would have to create an entirely new type of bootstrap
                      program, using different writing algorithms.

                      In any case, I humbly thank you so much. I've been working on this
                      board on/off now for over a year. You guys both get credit in my
                      engineering notes/notebook.

                      Thanks again,
                      Chuck
                    • BobGardner@aol.com
                      Hi Mike. I was using tech arts microstamps which used an external atmel 32k eeprom and an external 32k ram... to save params in eeprom at runtime (cant fetch
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 4 1:32 PM
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                        Hi Mike. I was using tech arts microstamps which used an external atmel 32k eeprom and an external 32k ram... to save params in eeprom at runtime (cant fetch from eeprom!), I wrote a little position independent subroutine that picks up a byte from ram, stores it in the eeprom, delays 12ms in a ram loop that doesnt fetch from rom. I could block move this from eeprom to ram at startup and jump to it to burn a byte. This burned byte by byte ok. I also was trying to perfect a 'turbo loader' that would burn 64 bytes at a time in page mode. I made the bootable program load into chip ram, switch in the external ram, switch the serial port to 38400 or something reasonable, then load the burner from the serial into external ram. The burner would then load from the serial and burn to external eeprom. This complicated kludge would surely work for external flash too, but I'd bet no one could get it to work in less than 3 dozen edits. Have any betters out there?


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Mike.McCarty@...
                        To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 3:29 PM
                        Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer


                        BobGardner@... wrote:
                        > I have written a couple of little bootable programs for various
                        > flavors of hc11... maybe you need a custom eeprom burner that reads
                        > the srecords from the serial port and burns your external eeprom...
                        > 10ms per byte right?

                        This does not sound like what he described. He has FLASH, not regular
                        EEPROM. BTW, EEPROM usually takes 2ms per byte in byte mode, and
                        usually only 2ms per 64 bytes when in page mode.

                        [snip huge unnecessary quote]

                        Mike
                        --
                        p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                        Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                        This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                        You have found the bank of Larn.
                        I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                        I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



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                      • Mike McCarty
                        ... It is better to use poll for completion . There are two ways to do that: Watch the toggle bit or just read back the location until it reads the same as
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 4 9:57 PM
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                          BobGardner@... wrote:
                          > Hi Mike. I was using tech arts microstamps which used an external
                          > atmel 32k eeprom and an external 32k ram... to save params in eeprom
                          > at runtime (cant fetch from eeprom!), I wrote a little position
                          > independent subroutine that picks up a byte from ram, stores it in
                          > the eeprom, delays 12ms in a ram loop that doesnt fetch from rom. I

                          It is better to use "poll for completion". There are two ways to
                          do that: Watch the "toggle bit" or just read back the location
                          until it reads the same as what you wrote (all bits get inverted
                          except the "toggle bit", so it's guaranteed to miscompare). You can
                          put a limit on it of 20ms or so, if you want, to keep from getting
                          stuck in a loop when you have a hardware fault or wearout. But usually
                          they complete in 1 to 2 ms.

                          > could block move this from eeprom to ram at startup and jump to it to
                          > burn a byte. This burned byte by byte ok. I also was trying to

                          That's the usual way of doing it, yes.

                          > perfect a 'turbo loader' that would burn 64 bytes at a time in page
                          > mode. I made the bootable program load into chip ram, switch in the
                          > external ram, switch the serial port to 38400 or something
                          > reasonable, then load the burner from the serial into external ram.
                          > The burner would then load from the serial and burn to external
                          > eeprom. This complicated kludge would surely work for external flash
                          > too, but I'd bet no one could get it to work in less than 3 dozen
                          > edits. Have any betters out there?

                          Well, I did that same thing several years ago, but with about 8 MB
                          of FLASH. The challenge there was that the FLASH was divided into
                          sectors of different sizes in different address ranges. So I had
                          to program different size sectors, depending on where I was programming.

                          That gets complicated when you are receiving blocks of data which
                          don't fit the sector sizes. One has to receive blocks until one
                          has at least one entire sector, then program one, then shuffle
                          the starting address up by the current sector size, all while
                          keeping the download going using a sliding window and multiple
                          buffers, so the download doesn't get stalled, or lose synch.

                          I used a big circular buffer which was able to hold three entire
                          sectors (largest size) without overflow, so I could be sure to
                          have time to throttle if I needed to without overflowing.
                          The blocks of data were not submultiples of any sector size,
                          unfortunately.

                          So... Sliding Window protocol, Deblocking, Programming and checking
                          for complete, all going on at once.

                          Mike
                          --
                          p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                          Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                          This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                          You have found the bank of Larn.
                          I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                          I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                        • Mike McCarty
                          ... This started ringing faint bells in the back of my head, and I finally went back and searched. I thought maybe I remembered a wirewrapped board with a
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 5 1:08 AM
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                            ChuckP98 wrote:
                            > Hi everyone, I'm glad to see so many people still have interest in this
                            > ol' chip.
                            >
                            > I a couple of questions for you knowledgeable folks out there who have
                            > more experience with this mcu than myself. I've posted (long ago) about
                            > a problem I've had interfacing a circa 1990 M68HC11EVBU with 32k SRAM
                            > and 32k flash EEPROM. I have a E1 PLCC chip in place of the traditional
                            > E9 that comes with the EVBU. I've wirewrapped the SRAM, EEPROM, and
                            > adjoining logic to the mcu and also soldered a LM7805 regulator for my
                            > power supply.

                            This started ringing faint bells in the back of my head, and I finally
                            went back and searched. I thought maybe I remembered a wirewrapped board
                            with a problem, and went searching back. Sure enough, ChuckP98 had a
                            problem with a wire-wrapped board he put into his back seat, just like
                            I remembered. Is this the same board somewhat rewired? No, I guess not.
                            This is an EVBU. Ok, what happened to the old board? I offered to
                            purchase it, but you decided to keep it. That was, umm, last July.

                            Ah, but last August you started asking about an EVBU with FLASH,
                            and I told you then you needed to use different programmming
                            algorithms. I guess you didn't believe me, then :-)

                            Here's what I wrote:

                            > FLASH programming is both easier and more difficult. You need to
                            > consult your part docs. FLASH is divided into sectors. When you
                            > program a byte in the part, it *automatically* erases the byte,
                            > and then programs it. But it erases the *whole sector* the byte
                            > is in. So, if you wish to save any of the current content, you
                            > must copy the whole sector out to RAM, modify the copy, then
                            > reprogram the whole sector. if you don't want to save what is
                            > there, you still need to program an entire sector, not a byte
                            > at a time. Sector sizes vary by manufacturer and part, and
                            > sometimes one single part will have different sized sectors
                            > at different addresses.
                            >
                            > So, consult your part docs.

                            That was last August 25.

                            Bob Gardner also chimed in with similar advice.

                            Mike
                            --
                            p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                            Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                            This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                            You have found the bank of Larn.
                            I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                            I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                          • Mike McCarty
                            ... At 05/03/2006 05:10 PM I wrote a message here which contains some code which can program external EEPROM using 64 byte burst mode programming and polls for
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 5 1:16 AM
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                              BobGardner@... wrote:
                              > Hi Mike. I was using tech arts microstamps which used an external
                              > atmel 32k eeprom and an external 32k ram... to save params in eeprom
                              > at runtime (cant fetch from eeprom!), I wrote a little position
                              > independent subroutine that picks up a byte from ram, stores it in
                              > the eeprom, delays 12ms in a ram loop that doesnt fetch from rom. I
                              > could block move this from eeprom to ram at startup and jump to it to
                              > burn a byte. This burned byte by byte ok. I also was trying to
                              > perfect a 'turbo loader' that would burn 64 bytes at a time in page
                              > mode. I made the bootable program load into chip ram, switch in the
                              > external ram, switch the serial port to 38400 or something
                              > reasonable, then load the burner from the serial into external ram.
                              > The burner would then load from the serial and burn to external
                              > eeprom. This complicated kludge would surely work for external flash
                              > too, but I'd bet no one could get it to work in less than 3 dozen
                              > edits. Have any betters out there?

                              At 05/03/2006 05:10 PM I wrote a message here which contains
                              some code which can program external EEPROM using 64 byte
                              burst mode programming and polls for completion. It's not
                              what I call good code, but it works. It can program, verify,
                              set the protect bits, or clear the protect bits.

                              Mike
                              --
                              p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                              Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                              This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                              You have found the bank of Larn.
                              I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                              I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                            • ChuckP98
                              Thats right! It was me who asked you about the wirewrapped board with that I left in my car over the summer. I can t believe you remember that, thats
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 5 12:02 PM
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                                Thats right! It was me who asked you about the wirewrapped board with
                                that I left in my car over the summer. I can't believe you remember
                                that, thats amazing.

                                I never got around to fixing the board since I had a similar problem
                                when I was working with it at school. I think the problem was that
                                MODA and MODB were open-drain pins and on my original breadboarded
                                design (not the EVBU) and I never used pullup resistors to tie them
                                high or low. Consequently, the DIP package got really hot and burned
                                up. Unseemingly though, the BUFFALO monitor worked, but the
                                characters were jarbled at the startup screen, nothing else worked though.

                                In any case, I bought a EVBU and migrated my design over onto that.
                                Same problems, different strokes you might say... I didn't have access
                                to lab equipment, and I was too busy working on my senior thesis class
                                for the past 6+ months to even touch the board. I think my account
                                even expired for EmbeddedRelated.com before I could get a chance to
                                look at it again.

                                In any case, you were totally right, I should have payed ALOT more
                                attention to what I was doing and the kind of software that I was
                                using, as well as the parts that I implemented. A definite rookie
                                mistake and I feel preety ridiculous about overlooking that.

                                Anyway, thanks Mike x2, once for helping during the summer where I
                                didn't listen :) and again for actually solving the problem yesterday!
                              • ChuckP98
                                Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn t work is that I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching around, I discovered
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 5 12:10 PM
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                                  Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't work is that
                                  I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                  around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these converter
                                  type devices. Is this right? I'm sticking to my standard null-modem
                                  cable, but now I have a RS232 to USB cable which I cant use
                                  anymore...and I'm sure I am asking a question which has been asked
                                  before, but what is the final word on using a USB to serial converter
                                  with the HC11?
                                • Mike McCarty
                                  ... I dunno why not. However, you need to remember that the HC11 puts out TTL level signals, not RS232 signals. You need a TTL RS232 level converter, like
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 5 9:43 PM
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                                    ChuckP98 wrote:
                                    > Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't work is that
                                    > I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                    > around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these converter
                                    > type devices. Is this right? I'm sticking to my standard null-modem

                                    I dunno why not. However, you need to remember that the HC11 puts
                                    out TTL level signals, not RS232 signals. You need a TTL<->RS232
                                    level converter, like the MAX232, sitting between the HC11 and
                                    the USB cable.

                                    > cable, but now I have a RS232 to USB cable which I cant use
                                    > anymore...and I'm sure I am asking a question which has been asked
                                    > before, but what is the final word on using a USB to serial converter
                                    > with the HC11?

                                    If you have a TTL<->RS232 level converter between the HC11 and
                                    the RS232<->USB converter, then I don't see why it wouldn't work.

                                    USB is a balanced design, while the HC11 and RS232 are both unbalanced.
                                    So, no direct connection would be possible, even though USB uses
                                    voltages which might be compatible with direct connect to the
                                    HC11.

                                    Mike
                                    --
                                    p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                                    Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                                    This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                                    You have found the bank of Larn.
                                    I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                                    I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                                  • Bob Smith
                                    See below ... From: Mike McCarty To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 6 8:49 AM
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                                      See below

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Mike McCarty
                                      To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:44 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer


                                      ChuckP98 wrote:
                                      > Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't work is that
                                      > I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                      > around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these converter
                                      > type devices. Is this right? I'm sticking to my standard null-modem

                                      Yes, thIs a known problem. Many of the RS232<->USB dongles have a problem
                                      handling the 'BREAK' sequence which the HC11 depends on. It is known that the BAFO-810 dongles, for example, do not work correctly. I have also heard that dongles based on the FTDI chip _do_ handle break ok. I had a long battle with this problem a couple of years ago. The net result was that I bought a serial card for my computer.

                                      I dunno why not. However, you need to remember that the HC11 puts
                                      out TTL level signals, not RS232 signals. You need a TTL<->RS232
                                      level converter, like the MAX232, sitting between the HC11 and
                                      the USB cable.

                                      > cable, but now I have a RS232 to USB cable which I cant use
                                      > anymore...and I'm sure I am asking a question which has been asked
                                      > before, but what is the final word on using a USB to serial converter
                                      > with the HC11?

                                      If you have a TTL<->RS232 level converter between the HC11 and
                                      the RS232<->USB converter, then I don't see why it wouldn't work.

                                      USB is a balanced design, while the HC11 and RS232 are both unbalanced.
                                      So, no direct connection would be possible, even though USB uses
                                      voltages which might be compatible with direct connect to the
                                      HC11.

                                      Mike
                                      --
                                      p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                                      Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                                      This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                                      You have found the bank of Larn.
                                      I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                                      I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • autostaretx
                                      ... To convert that to brand names: i d suspect that Belkin USB-serial adapters will -not- work reliably (even beyond the break issue), and that a Keyspan
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 6 9:10 AM
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                                        --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Smith" <bobsmith5@...> wrote:

                                        > ChuckP98 wrote:
                                        > > Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't
                                        > > work is that
                                        > > I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                        > > around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these
                                        > > converter type devices. Is this right?
                                        > > I'm sticking to my standard null-modem
                                        >
                                        > Yes, thIs a known problem.
                                        > Many of the RS232<->USB dongles have a problem
                                        > handling the 'BREAK' sequence which the HC11 depends on.
                                        > It is known that the BAFO-810 dongles, for example, do not work
                                        > correctly. I have also heard that dongles based on the FTDI chip
                                        > _do_ handle break ok. I had a long battle with this problem a
                                        > couple of years ago. The net result was that I bought a serial
                                        > card for my computer.

                                        To convert that to brand names:
                                        i'd suspect that Belkin USB-serial adapters will -not- work
                                        reliably (even beyond the "break" issue),
                                        and that a Keyspan USB-19HS -will- work.
                                        (Keyspan uses the Texas Instrument chip).

                                        Meade Telescopes use the M68HC11 as the heart of their Autostar
                                        controllers, with a MAX232 from the on-board serial port...
                                        they don't use break for any communications, yet the Belkin
                                        adapters are notorious for not being able to handle
                                        9600 baud binary transfers.
                                        My Keyspan does 9600 to over 200kbaud without problems.

                                        have fun
                                        --dick seymour
                                      • Mike McCarty
                                        ... I still don t see any REASON why it shouldn t work. Of course, if the converter itself doesn t work, then it doesn t. :-) [snip] Mike --
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 6 9:40 AM
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                                          Bob Smith wrote:
                                          > See below
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: Mike McCarty
                                          > To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:44 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ChuckP98 wrote:
                                          > > Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't work is that
                                          > > I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                          > > around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these converter
                                          > > type devices. Is this right? I'm sticking to my standard null-modem
                                          >
                                          > Yes, thIs a known problem. Many of the RS232<->USB dongles have a problem
                                          > handling the 'BREAK' sequence which the HC11 depends on. It is known
                                          > that the BAFO-810 dongles, for example, do not work correctly. I
                                          > have also heard that dongles based on the FTDI chip _do_ handle
                                          > break ok. I had a long battle with this problem a couple of years
                                          > ago. The net result was that I bought a serial card for my computer.

                                          I still don't see any REASON why it shouldn't work.
                                          Of course, if the converter itself doesn't work, then
                                          it doesn't. :-)

                                          [snip]

                                          Mike
                                          --
                                          p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                                          Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                                          This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                                          You have found the bank of Larn.
                                          I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                                          I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                                        • Mike McCarty
                                          ... What I thought. If the converter works, then there should be no problem. BTW, I have a really sour taste in my mouth for all Belkin special cables. Their
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 6 9:43 AM
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                                            autostaretx wrote:
                                            >
                                            > To convert that to brand names:
                                            > i'd suspect that Belkin USB-serial adapters will -not- work
                                            > reliably (even beyond the "break" issue),
                                            > and that a Keyspan USB-19HS -will- work.
                                            > (Keyspan uses the Texas Instrument chip).
                                            >
                                            > Meade Telescopes use the M68HC11 as the heart of their Autostar
                                            > controllers, with a MAX232 from the on-board serial port...
                                            > they don't use break for any communications, yet the Belkin
                                            > adapters are notorious for not being able to handle
                                            > 9600 baud binary transfers.
                                            > My Keyspan does 9600 to over 200kbaud without problems.

                                            What I thought. If the converter works, then there should be
                                            no problem.

                                            BTW, I have a really sour taste in my mouth for all Belkin
                                            "special" cables. Their ordinary cables are top notch. But
                                            I've had problems with their "smart" cables, like KVM switches,
                                            and "auto switch" printer cables, etc.

                                            Mike
                                            --
                                            p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                                            Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                                            This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                                            You have found the bank of Larn.
                                            I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                                            I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                                          • ChuckP98
                                            Yup. I just did a couple of tests to prove this for myself. I have a USB to serial converter which I believe is a PROLIFIC chipset. Writing a bootstrap
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 6 4:49 PM
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                                              Yup. I just did a couple of tests to prove this for myself. I have a
                                              USB to serial converter which I believe is a PROLIFIC chipset.
                                              Writing a bootstrap program and writing it to the RAM did NOT work. I
                                              also borrowed two different USB to serial converters from friends and
                                              they also did not work.

                                              However, if you are merely running a program using RS232 just as pure
                                              text. It "should" work. I ran the same test just outputting time to
                                              the serial port and it worked fine.
                                            • Bob Smith
                                              ... From: Mike McCarty To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Apr 7 6:15 AM
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                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Mike McCarty
                                                To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:41 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer


                                                Bob Smith wrote:
                                                > See below
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Mike McCarty
                                                > To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:44 AM
                                                > Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted Engineer
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ChuckP98 wrote:
                                                > > Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't work is that
                                                > > I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                                > > around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these converter
                                                > > type devices. Is this right? I'm sticking to my standard null-modem
                                                >
                                                > Yes, thIs a known problem. Many of the RS232<->USB dongles have a problem
                                                > handling the 'BREAK' sequence which the HC11 depends on. It is known
                                                > that the BAFO-810 dongles, for example, do not work correctly. I
                                                > have also heard that dongles based on the FTDI chip _do_ handle
                                                > break ok. I had a long battle with this problem a couple of years
                                                > ago. The net result was that I bought a serial card for my computer.

                                                I still don't see any REASON why it shouldn't work.
                                                Of course, if the converter itself doesn't work, then
                                                it doesn't. :-)

                                                That is the reason. Break seems to confuse the converter in the BAFO chip and from then seems to offset all subsequent bytes 1-2 bits.



                                                Bob



                                                [snip]

                                                Mike
                                                --
                                                p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                                                Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                                                This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                                                You have found the bank of Larn.
                                                I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                                                I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Nafis Iskander
                                                Hello I am kinda stuck because I have tried to produce sound to make a midi player and play midi format 0 files and import it in the ATMega 128 microcontroller
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Apr 9 1:33 AM
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                                                  Hello

                                                  I am kinda stuck because I have tried to produce sound to make a midi player
                                                  and
                                                  play midi format 0 files and import it in the ATMega 128 microcontroller using
                                                  AVR studio. However, I can create the midi file, load and play it but
                                                  unfortunately can't play any sounds at all. None, I have tried a lot of ways to
                                                  change -modify the code. Same problem. Can anyone help me with a sample code of
                                                  something that might work or tell me what I am doing wrong?

                                                  thanks

                                                  BR
                                                  Nafis IskanderQuoting Bob Smith <bobsmith5@...>:

                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Mike McCarty
                                                  > To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:41 PM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted
                                                  > Engineer
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Bob Smith wrote:
                                                  > > See below
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > From: Mike McCarty
                                                  > > To: m68HC11@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:44 AM
                                                  > > Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Re: EVBU, E1, External EEPROM, and an Exhausted
                                                  > Engineer
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ChuckP98 wrote:
                                                  > > > Oh, one more thing that I remembered why my board didn't work is that
                                                  > > > I was using a RS232 to USB cable. And after doing some searching
                                                  > > > around, I discovered that the HC11 will not work with these converter
                                                  > > > type devices. Is this right? I'm sticking to my standard null-modem
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yes, thIs a known problem. Many of the RS232<->USB dongles have a
                                                  > problem
                                                  > > handling the 'BREAK' sequence which the HC11 depends on. It is known
                                                  > > that the BAFO-810 dongles, for example, do not work correctly. I
                                                  > > have also heard that dongles based on the FTDI chip _do_ handle
                                                  > > break ok. I had a long battle with this problem a couple of years
                                                  > > ago. The net result was that I bought a serial card for my computer.
                                                  >
                                                  > I still don't see any REASON why it shouldn't work.
                                                  > Of course, if the converter itself doesn't work, then
                                                  > it doesn't. :-)
                                                  >
                                                  > That is the reason. Break seems to confuse the converter in the BAFO chip
                                                  > and from then seems to offset all subsequent bytes 1-2 bits.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Bob
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [snip]
                                                  >
                                                  > Mike
                                                  > --
                                                  > p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                                                  > Oppose globalization and One World Governments like the UN.
                                                  > This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                                                  > You have found the bank of Larn.
                                                  > I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                                                  > I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Edi Im Hof
                                                  There s an other special behavior with RS232-USB converters. USB is a block interface, Rs232 a character interface. USB waits until its receive buffer is full
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Apr 10 12:27 AM
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                                                    There's an other special behavior with RS232-USB converters. USB is a
                                                    block interface, Rs232 a character interface. USB waits until its
                                                    receive buffer is full until it sends. If only one character arrives,
                                                    it waits for a timeout. If you have a protocol witch always waits for
                                                    an echo, the speed can be very low on the USB.

                                                    That means, not only the break can be an issue, also the timing can be
                                                    critical.

                                                    Edi

                                                    ChuckP98 schrieb:
                                                    > Yup. I just did a couple of tests to prove this for myself. I have a
                                                    > USB to serial converter which I believe is a PROLIFIC chipset.
                                                    > Writing a bootstrap program and writing it to the RAM did NOT work. I
                                                    > also borrowed two different USB to serial converters from friends and
                                                    > they also did not work.
                                                    >
                                                    > However, if you are merely running a program using RS232 just as pure
                                                    > text. It "should" work. I ran the same test just outputting time to
                                                    > the serial port and it worked fine.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >

                                                    --
                                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                                    + IH electronic + Phone: ++41 52 320 90 00 +
                                                    + Edi Im Hof + Fax: ++41 52 320 90 04 +
                                                    + Doernlerstrasse 1, Sulz + URL: http://www.ihe.ch +
                                                    + CH-8544 Rickenbach-Attikon + E-Mail: edi.imhof@... +
                                                    + Switzerland + +
                                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                                  • Bill
                                                    Hello to All: For those of you who are having problems getting EEPROM to work, the following, if it fits your scheme of things, is a solution. If the memory
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Apr 25 8:21 PM
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                                                      Hello to All:
                                                      For those of you who are having problems getting EEPROM to work,
                                                      the following, if it fits your scheme of things, is a solution.
                                                      If the memory you are using has pinouts that match, swap the RAMs
                                                      and /or EEPROM for NVRAMs. No overlays, delays, byte or page writing
                                                      involved. They work like SRAM and hold data like EEPROM. The upper
                                                      half of my memory is a 32Kx8, 70nS NVRAM from DigiKey. The
                                                      Dallas /Maxim website has datasheets.
                                                      At $30 each they are a bit pricey for production boards; for
                                                      prototyping boards they are excellent.
                                                      Bill harris, Riverside CA
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