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Re: [m68HC11] 68hc11 interface with pci bus

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  • Mike McCarty
    ... That s not a problem, everyone starts somewhere. Umm, I d appreciate it if you hit return from time to time. ... All modern 80x86 based machines have PCI
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 7, 2006
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      jo sun wrote:
      >
      > Dear mike,
      >
      > I am more than pleased with the tips you gave the other day…but the problem with me, I am such a naïve person when it come with computer…

      That's not a problem, everyone starts somewhere.
      Umm, I'd appreciate it if you hit return from time to time.

      >
      > To begin with ….i don’t know where PCI bus is located…does every PC have PCI bus?

      All modern 80x86 based machines have PCI busses.

      > I tried to find M68HC11RM.pdf on the internet but failed....(server problem)

      I can send you one via e-mail if you haven't already found one.

      > And how am I gonna to interface PCI bus to the microchip in term of circuit and software?

      Well, it depends on what the requirements are. It isn't clear (to me)
      whether your requirements require that the MC68HC11 be the master on
      the bus. Just as a little background...

      The PCI bus was intended to be a bus useful for connecting
      all kinds of peripherals to all kinds of processors, but
      at something like the normal processor bus speed. To
      accomplish this, one uses a bridge chip, which is specific
      to the processor bus. These bridge chips have significant
      programming/initialization requirements. Modern PCs have
      the code (firmware) necessary to initialize the bridge
      chips, and enumerate the bus (find the peripherals actually
      connected on the other side). If the MC68HC11 is the master,
      then you'll have to find a bridge chip compatible with the
      '11 bus. You'll also have to find out how to program that
      chip, and enumerate a PCI bus.

      On the other hand (OTOH) if that is not your requirement,
      but it is intended for your MC68HC11 to be on the peripheral
      side of the bus, then the PC can do the programming and enumeration.
      In that case, depending on the exact requirements, perhaps you
      can do what some others have suggested, which is to use a
      PCI bus compatible serial card, and connect the '11 to the
      serial port on the card.

      >
      > I don’t even start the project yet because I don’t know what to buy…the only thing I have for the project is a book about 68hc11…

      Well, the requirements I've seen so far are so vague,
      that I have only a foggy notion of what you are trying to
      do, and without more information I can't really help you.

      >
      > I have start read it already...

      That's a good start.

      > Email me okey?....have a nice day

      Here it is. Sorry not to get back in so long. I've
      been busy.

      Mike
      --
      p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
      This message made from 100% recycled bits.
      You have found the bank of Larn.
      I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
      I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
    • addicted6220@yahoo.com
      Dear mike Thanks again... it would be nice if you can send me the M68HC11RM.pdf . because im having difficult time to find it..
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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        Dear mike

        Thanks again...
        it would be nice if you can send me the M68HC11RM.pdf .
        because im having difficult time to find it..
      • addicted6220@yahoo.com
        Dear mike, i will be pleased if you can send the M68HC11RM.pdf to me...because im having a difficult time finding it...thnks again..
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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          Dear mike,
          i will be pleased if you can send the M68HC11RM.pdf to me...because im having a difficult time finding it...thnks again..
        • Mike McCarty
          ... Ok, sent under separate cover. However, I compressed it with zip (if you use Windows, use WinZip). It s still about 3M. I also have a manual devoted
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 11, 2006
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            addicted6220@... wrote:
            > Dear mike
            >
            > Thanks again...
            > it would be nice if you can send me the M68HC11RM.pdf .
            > because im having difficult time to find it..

            Ok, sent under separate cover. However, I compressed it
            with zip (if you use Windows, use WinZip). It's still
            about 3M. I also have a manual devoted specifically to
            the E series chips. Perhaps you would prefer a URL?

            Also, you may find quit a bit at

            http://www.freescale.com/

            http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/data_sheet/M68HC11E.pdf
            in particular looks pretty good.

            Mike
            --
            p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
            This message made from 100% recycled bits.
            You have found the bank of Larn.
            I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
            I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
          • Mike McCarty
            ... Did you get it? Mike -- p= p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} ;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} This message made from 100% recycled bits. You have found the
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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              addicted6220@... wrote:
              > Dear mike,
              > i will be pleased if you can send the M68HC11RM.pdf to me...because im having a difficult time finding it...thnks again..

              Did you get it?

              Mike
              --
              p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
              This message made from 100% recycled bits.
              You have found the bank of Larn.
              I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
              I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
            • jo sun
              dear Mike.... I m sorry for replying this late.I did get the file you sent. The problem is (maybe not a prob at all), my lecturer has change the project to a
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                dear Mike....

                I'm sorry for replying this late.I did get the file you sent. The problem is (maybe not a prob at all), my lecturer has change the project to a rs 232 to ease my burden as he said. And ofcoz the microcontroller still the main point in this project..So i wonder you if still want to help me...it still hard for me as rookie in this field, even with rs 232. Ofcourse i do need your help.

                Thanks...reply soon..



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              • Mike McCarty
                ... I d appreciate it if you hit the Return key on your keyboard from time to time. Try to get something done, and when you get stuck, send us a description of
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 18, 2006
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                  jo sun wrote:
                  > dear Mike....
                  >
                  > I'm sorry for replying this late.I did get the file you sent. The problem is (maybe not a prob at all), my lecturer has change the project to a rs 232 to ease my burden as he said. And ofcoz the microcontroller still the main point in this project..So i wonder you if still want to help me...it still hard for me as rookie in this field, even with rs 232. Ofcourse i do need your help.
                  >
                  > Thanks...reply soon..

                  I'd appreciate it if you hit the Return key on your
                  keyboard from time to time.

                  Try to get something done, and when you get stuck, send
                  us a description of where you got lost/stuck, and we'll
                  help you figure it out. That's the way it works.

                  Mike
                  --
                  p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                  This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                  You have found the bank of Larn.
                  I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                  I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                • addicted6220
                  dear Mike, The other day, I was just beginning to start my new project on rs-232, but my lecturer have another idea... He changed my project again..and now the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 26, 2006
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                    dear Mike,

                    The other day, I was just beginning to start my new project on rs-232,
                    but my lecturer have another idea...

                    He changed my project again..and now the title became....
                    parallel port interface with MC68HC11A1 (MOTOROLA).
                    So what do i have to do?
                    I use Visual Basic in this project,but that is not the problem, my
                    only concern now how to connect parallel port to the micro-c?

                    I already study parallel port pins. So can you helpme with the
                    connection?

                    thanks....
                  • Mike McCarty
                    ... Welcome to the real world. We call that moving target and changing requirements . You need to press for a requirements freeze . ... Beats me. You
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 27, 2006
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                      addicted6220 wrote:
                      > dear Mike,
                      >
                      > The other day, I was just beginning to start my new project on rs-232,
                      > but my lecturer have another idea...

                      Welcome to the real world. We call that "moving target" and
                      "changing requirements". You need to press for a "requirements
                      freeze".

                      > He changed my project again..and now the title became....
                      > parallel port interface with MC68HC11A1 (MOTOROLA).
                      > So what do i have to do?

                      Beats me. You haven't stated any requirments here at all.

                      > I use Visual Basic in this project,but that is not the problem, my
                      > only concern now how to connect parallel port to the micro-c?

                      No requirements, no help. You need at least to make a start, also.

                      You need to do the following things...

                      1. Get good requirements. Is this a one-way or a bi-directional
                      link? How much data goes in each direction? Data rates? Are there
                      any requirements on the protocol? (Like, "Must be Centronics
                      compatible" or "Must emulate a printer", etc.)

                      2. Design a protocol for data transfer. What kind of handshake,
                      if any, is to be used.

                      3. Depending on the complexity of the data processing to be done,
                      you might run in single-chip mode, and use the automatic parallel
                      I/O handshake provided on PORTB and PORTC.

                      > I already study parallel port pins. So can you helpme with the
                      > connection?

                      Depends on all the above. Try making some progress on your own,
                      and when you get stuck, come back for help.

                      Note that the Centronics port has only limited amounts of
                      data in the reverse channel (like 5 bits, I think), and some
                      of those bits undergo logic inversion.

                      HTH

                      Mike
                      --
                      p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                      This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                      You have found the bank of Larn.
                      I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                      I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                    • David Kelly
                      ... It Depends. There are many different implementations of the parallel printer port on PC hardware. Not all were bidirectional. The design originally used by
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 27, 2006
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                        On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:45:03PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
                        >
                        > Note that the Centronics port has only limited amounts of
                        > data in the reverse channel (like 5 bits, I think), and some
                        > of those bits undergo logic inversion.

                        It Depends. There are many different implementations of the parallel
                        printer port on PC hardware. Not all were bidirectional. The design
                        originally used by AST was widely copied. But since that time there have
                        been a couple of "high performance" "standard" versions complete with
                        bidirectional DMA. There were attempts to change the "standard" cable
                        from DB25 at one end and huge "centronics" connector at the other to
                        something suitable for high data rates. These cables can be found but
                        USB and ethernet have mostly pushed parallel printer interfaces out of
                        the public's interest.

                        This is an example of why the student is required to actually assemble a
                        working demonstration, because its all the details and organization
                        which is required which is the real lesson. The microcontroller is only
                        a side bar.

                        --
                        David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@...
                        ========================================================================
                        Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
                      • Mike McCarty
                        ... Read what I wrote carefully. I did not specify The PC Printer Port , as you seem to think. I specified the Centronics port . ... Of course. ECP, for one.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 27, 2006
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                          David Kelly wrote:
                          > On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:45:03PM -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:
                          >
                          >>Note that the Centronics port has only limited amounts of
                          >>data in the reverse channel (like 5 bits, I think), and some
                          >>of those bits undergo logic inversion.
                          >
                          >
                          > It Depends. There are many different implementations of the parallel
                          > printer port on PC hardware. Not all were bidirectional. The design

                          Read what I wrote carefully. I did not specify "The PC Printer Port",
                          as you seem to think. I specified the "Centronics port".

                          > originally used by AST was widely copied. But since that time there have
                          > been a couple of "high performance" "standard" versions complete with
                          > bidirectional DMA. There were attempts to change the "standard" cable

                          Of course. ECP, for one.

                          > from DB25 at one end and huge "centronics" connector at the other to
                          > something suitable for high data rates. These cables can be found but
                          > USB and ethernet have mostly pushed parallel printer interfaces out of
                          > the public's interest.

                          Yes, but I quote the OP:

                          > He changed my project again..and now the title became....
                          > parallel port interface with MC68HC11A1 (MOTOROLA).

                          Note: parallel port interface

                          > This is an example of why the student is required to actually assemble a
                          > working demonstration, because its all the details and organization
                          > which is required which is the real lesson. The microcontroller is only
                          > a side bar.

                          This is an example of the instructor having his head up his butt.

                          It's also an example of vagueness on the part of the student asking
                          for help here.

                          Mike
                          --
                          p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
                          This message made from 100% recycled bits.
                          You have found the bank of Larn.
                          I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
                          I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
                        • jo sun
                          Dear Mike, These are the requirement that you asked for.. 5 motors , reverse and forward only DC , 5.5 volt What else did you need..? How to connect from
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 28, 2006
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                            Dear Mike,

                            These are the requirement that you asked for..
                            5 motors , reverse and forward only
                            DC , 5.5 volt
                            What else did you need..?


                            How to connect from printer port to 68hc11A1...??
                            I already bought the chip, board, capacitors, just a board left to solder....
                            I have to submit the board this wednesday....


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                          • Mark Schultz
                            ... ?He changed my project again..and now the title became.... ... Hmm, I will address this one, since it just so happens that I m working on a (legacy)
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 31, 2006
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                              >The other day, I was just beginning to start my new project on rs-232,
                              >but my lecturer have another idea...
                              >
                              ?He changed my project again..and now the title became....
                              >parallel port interface with MC68HC11A1 (MOTOROLA).

                              Hmm, I will address this one, since it just so happens that I'm working
                              on a (legacy) project that involves the use of a PC/Centronics style
                              parallel interface.

                              There are a number of control and handshake signals associated with a
                              PC parport, but for simple one-way (host to device) communications, the
                              only signals of real importance are the 8 data lines, and the /STROBE
                              and /ACK handshake signals.

                              The following actions take place when the host sends a 8-bit value to
                              the device:

                              1. Host places a 8-bit byte value on the 8 data lines.
                              2. Host briefly asserts (brings LOW) the /STROBE line, signalling the
                              device that a value is present on the data lines to be read.
                              3. Device waits for the the /STROBE line go low, and then reads the
                              8-bit value presented on the data lines.
                              4. Device briefly asserts (brings LOW) the /ACK line to signal the host
                              that it has read the value on the data lines and that the device
                              is ready to accept the next byte of data.

                              The other signals on the parallel port - BUSY, /FAULT, PE (sometimes
                              named PAPEREND or PERROR), /AUTOFD, /INIT, /SELIN and SELOUT serve more
                              specialzed handshake and control functions and really do not have to be
                              implemented. Depending on what sort of control or driver you use on
                              the host side, you *may* have to tie some of the input lines (such as
                              BUSY, /FAULT, PERROR, and SELOUT) on the host side to the appropriate
                              levels to get the host to send data. If your host-side parallel port
                              driver provides the application with direct control over all the
                              parallel port signals (highly desirable), then you don't have to worry
                              about the extra handshake signals, unless you have some other reason
                              that you wish to implement them (such as, using them to provide a
                              serial back-channel to allow the device to send data to the host - more
                              on this in a bit)

                              The following link has a diagram showing the signals on a PC parallel
                              port connector:

                              http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/parallel/parallelpc.html

                              The big problem with a standard PC parport is that it is a
                              unidirectional link; using a parport in a standardized configuration
                              allows for transmission of data from host to device only. A number of
                              standard (e.g. IEEE1284) and semi- or non-standard ways have been
                              devised to make a parport serve as a bidirectional link. The standard
                              way - IEEE1284 - is kind of complex and is probably overkill for your
                              application. One way that I have used in the past which is not
                              'standards-compliant' but works well is to use a few of the parport
                              handshaking signals (such as SELOUT, /FAULT and /SELIN) to implement a
                              unidirectional (device to host) synchronous serial interface. The
                              SELOUT input (to the host) is used as a data line, and the /FAULT input
                              is used as a clock. The /SELIN output from the host is used as a sort
                              of host-to-device handshake to 'pace' the transmission, allowing the
                              host to regulate the bit rate so it does not loose any data when it is
                              servicing tasks other than your program. I won't go into the precise
                              nature of the protocol here now, but I will cover it in detail if you
                              ask.

                              The HC11 has a built-in subsystem that partially automates the
                              device-side of the parallel port, allowing it to auto-latch data when
                              the host-side /STROBE is asserted, and auto-generate the /ACK signal
                              when the program (in the HC11) reads the latched data. One potential
                              drawback of using this subsystem is that the data port - PORTC - is
                              used to implement the external address/data bus on HC11 configurations
                              that use external memory. If you are running your project board in a
                              'single chip' mode with no external RAM/ROM then this is not a problem.
                              There are other drawbacks to using this subsystem that I won't get
                              into now but will cover in more detail if asked.
                            • addicted6220
                              Hi Mark, I am the person who is working on parallel port to 68hc11. I already finsih the connection between the db25 to 68hc11a1 according what you gave me the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 17, 2006
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                                Hi Mark, I am the person who is working on parallel port to 68hc11.
                                I already finsih the connection between the db25 to 68hc11a1
                                according what you gave me the other day. below is how i connected
                                them

                                Mode : bootstrap
                                pin 1 db25 to pin 28 (STRB)
                                pin 2-9 db25 to pin 8-1(port A), respectively
                                pin 10 db25 to pin 26 (STRA)
                                pin 11 db25 to pin 43(PD1/TxD)
                                pin 18-25 db25 to Ground
                                Port B as output (LED)

                                so, is there problem with my connection? and how can i know the
                                circuit is working?

                                as for future for my porject,i tend to use Visual Basic in buiding
                                user interface, any comment?




                                > only signals of real importance are the 8 data lines, and
                                the /STROBE
                                > and /ACK handshake signals.
                                >
                                > The following actions take place when the host sends a 8-bit value
                                to
                                > the device:
                                >
                                > 1. Host places a 8-bit byte value on the 8 data lines.
                                > 2. Host briefly asserts (brings LOW) the /STROBE line, signalling
                                the
                                > device that a value is present on the data lines to be read.
                                > 3. Device waits for the the /STROBE line go low, and then reads the
                                > 8-bit value presented on the data lines.
                                > 4. Device briefly asserts (brings LOW) the /ACK line to signal the
                                host
                                > that it has read the value on the data lines and that the device
                                > is ready to accept the next byte of data.
                                >
                                > The other signals on the parallel port - BUSY, /FAULT, PE
                                (sometimes
                                > named PAPEREND or PERROR), /AUTOFD, /INIT, /SELIN and SELOUT serve
                                more
                                > specialzed handshake and control functions and really do not have
                                to be
                                > implemented. Depending on what sort of control or driver you use
                                on
                                > the host side, you *may* have to tie some of the input lines (such
                                as
                                > BUSY, /FAULT, PERROR, and SELOUT) on the host side to the
                                appropriate
                                > levels to get the host to send data. If your host-side parallel
                                port
                                > driver provides the application with direct control over all the
                                > parallel port signals (highly desirable), then you don't have to
                                worry
                                > about the extra handshake signals, unless you have some other
                                reason
                                > that you wish to implement them (such as, using them to provide a
                                > serial back-channel to allow the device to send data to the host -
                                more
                                > on this in a bit)
                                >
                                > The following link has a diagram showing the signals on a PC
                                parallel
                                > port connector:
                                >
                                > http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/parallel/parallelpc.html
                                >
                                > The big problem with a standard PC parport is that it is a
                                > unidirectional link; using a parport in a standardized
                                configuration
                                > allows for transmission of data from host to device only. A
                                number of
                                > standard (e.g. IEEE1284) and semi- or non-standard ways have been
                                > devised to make a parport serve as a bidirectional link. The
                                standard
                                > way - IEEE1284 - is kind of complex and is probably overkill for
                                your
                                > application. One way that I have used in the past which is not
                                > 'standards-compliant' but works well is to use a few of the parport
                                > handshaking signals (such as SELOUT, /FAULT and /SELIN) to
                                implement a
                                > unidirectional (device to host) synchronous serial interface. The
                                > SELOUT input (to the host) is used as a data line, and the /FAULT
                                input
                                > is used as a clock. The /SELIN output from the host is used as a
                                sort
                                > of host-to-device handshake to 'pace' the transmission, allowing
                                the
                                > host to regulate the bit rate so it does not loose any data when
                                it is
                                > servicing tasks other than your program. I won't go into the
                                precise
                                > nature of the protocol here now, but I will cover it in detail if
                                you
                                > ask.
                                >
                                > The HC11 has a built-in subsystem that partially automates the
                                > device-side of the parallel port, allowing it to auto-latch data
                                when
                                > the host-side /STROBE is asserted, and auto-generate the /ACK
                                signal
                                > when the program (in the HC11) reads the latched data. One
                                potential
                                > drawback of using this subsystem is that the data port - PORTC - is
                                > used to implement the external address/data bus on HC11
                                configurations
                                > that use external memory. If you are running your project board
                                in a
                                > 'single chip' mode with no external RAM/ROM then this is not a
                                problem.
                                > There are other drawbacks to using this subsystem that I won't get
                                > into now but will cover in more detail if asked.
                                >
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