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OT/Jeremiah quotations in NT

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  • ajsilverstar
    Hey Group, I m doing research on the Jeremiah quotations in the NT. Does anyone know where I can get comments that explains which text it is from (MT or LXX)
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 18, 2003
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      Hey Group,

      I'm doing research on the Jeremiah quotations in the NT. Does anyone
      know where I can get comments that explains which text it is from (MT
      or LXX) and which also provides commentary along with it?

      I'm already familiar with R. Grant Jones very nice website. I have
      his comments which point out all the places Jeremiah is quoted and
      which text it is from along with short commentary, but I'm looking
      more for a _book_ and commentary. Thanks in advance for your
      assistance.

      Thanks,
      Adam
    • Michael Jay
      The UBS Greek New Testament index alerts the reader when the quote is from the LXX, and not from the MT, (because they are diffrent.) It also has a list of
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
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        The UBS Greek New Testament index alerts the reader when the quote is
        from the LXX, and not from the MT, (because they are diffrent.) It
        also has a list of quotes in an index, both in NT and OT order. You
        should observe that it only makes the distiction when the LXX does
        not support the MT -- these cases are rare in NT quotes.

        To see if it matches the LXX -- it is a simple matter to just put the
        texts next to each other and compare. Of course comparing to the
        Hebrew is more difficult.

        Michael
      • ajsilverstar
        Thanks so much Michael. I have some friends that have the latest UBS GNT and I ll ask them to scan me those pages. Thanks again for the tip. Just so you guys
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
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          Thanks so much Michael. I have some friends that have the latest UBS
          GNT and I'll ask them to scan me those pages. Thanks again for the
          tip.

          Just so you guys know, I'm doing a write-up about the MT and LXX Jer
          issue, and I'm looking for quotes from authoritative sources to refer
          to. Otherwise, like you said, I could just compare them myself and
          figure it out.

          Any others have anything that would help me here?

          Sincerely,
          Adam



          --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Jay" <jaymichael@h...> wrote:
          > The UBS Greek New Testament index alerts the reader when the quote
          is
          > from the LXX, and not from the MT, (because they are diffrent.) It
          > also has a list of quotes in an index, both in NT and OT order.
          You
          > should observe that it only makes the distiction when the LXX does
          > not support the MT -- these cases are rare in NT quotes.
          >
          > To see if it matches the LXX -- it is a simple matter to just put
          the
          > texts next to each other and compare. Of course comparing to the
          > Hebrew is more difficult.
          >
          > Michael
        • CS Bartholomew
          ... Michael, The use of the UBSGNT (3rd or 4th ed.) for this sort of work requires that you understand the limitations of this edition. (see page 231 of
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
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            On 9/19/03 8:15 AM, "Michael Jay" <jaymichael@...> wrote:

            > The UBS Greek New Testament index alerts the reader when the quote is
            > from the LXX, and not from the MT, (because they are diffrent.) It
            > also has a list of quotes in an index, both in NT and OT order. You
            > should observe that it only makes the distiction when the LXX does
            > not support the MT -- these cases are rare in NT quotes.
            >
            > To see if it matches the LXX -- it is a simple matter to just put the
            > texts next to each other and compare. Of course comparing to the
            > Hebrew is more difficult.


            Michael,

            The use of the UBSGNT (3rd or 4th ed.) for this sort of work requires that
            you understand the limitations of this edition. (see page 231 of
            Aland&Aland* where the scope of reference apparatus in the GNT is made
            explicit.) To appreciate the problem one can compare the listings in the
            GNT reference apparatus for Jeremiah with the listings in the back of NA27.
            The NA27 reference apparatus is not exhaustive, the UBSGNT isn't even close.

            Making judgments on NT citations is somewhat complex. It requires, among
            other things, looking at text critical issues in the GNT, H-MT, LXX. To
            study the use of citations from the LXX in the NT ideally one should have
            access to the following tools:

            NA27

            Ruben Swanson (if available)

            A critical edition of the LXX (Gottingen LXX not Rahlfs)

            Accordance/BibleWorks

            E.Tov's MT/LXX database

            J. Lust - E. Eynikel - K. Hauspie, Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint.
            Revised Edition, Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2003

            Muraoka, Takamitsu. "Hebrew/Aramaic Index to the Septuagint : Keyed to the
            Hatch-Redpath Concordance." 160 p . Grand Rapids: Baker Bk House, 1998.

            This is just a short list, but a place to start.

            In summary, I would not recommend reliance on the UBSGNT to answer questions
            of this sort.


            greetings,
            Clay Bartholomew

            *ALAND, Kurt and Barbara: The Text of The New Testament,
            revised and enlarged, Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans, 1989.
          • ajsilverstar
            Thank-you Mr. Bartholomew for that clarifying information. I m somewhat surprised that there is no book (at least no one has mentioned it to date here) that
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
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              Thank-you Mr. Bartholomew for that clarifying information.

              I'm somewhat surprised that there is no book (at least no one has
              mentioned it to date here) that has discussed the many OT quotations
              found in the GNT. I am not interested in researching it myself, as I
              am not qualified to do so, but I was hoping there was an
              authoritative work that had already done so besides R. Grant Jones
              excellent website.

              Sincerely,
              Adam
              >
              > Michael,
              >
              > The use of the UBSGNT (3rd or 4th ed.) for this sort of work
              requires that
              > you understand the limitations of this edition. (see page 231 of
              > Aland&Aland* where the scope of reference apparatus in the GNT is
              made
              > explicit.) To appreciate the problem one can compare the listings
              in the
              > GNT reference apparatus for Jeremiah with the listings in the back
              of NA27.
              > The NA27 reference apparatus is not exhaustive, the UBSGNT isn't
              even close.
              >
              > Making judgments on NT citations is somewhat complex. It requires,
              among
              > other things, looking at text critical issues in the GNT, H-MT,
              LXX. To
              > study the use of citations from the LXX in the NT ideally one
              should have
              > access to the following tools:
              >
              > NA27
              >
              > Ruben Swanson (if available)
              >
              > A critical edition of the LXX (Gottingen LXX not Rahlfs)
              >
              > Accordance/BibleWorks
              >
              > E.Tov's MT/LXX database
              >
              > J. Lust - E. Eynikel - K. Hauspie, Greek-English Lexicon of the
              Septuagint.
              > Revised Edition, Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2003
              >
              > Muraoka, Takamitsu. "Hebrew/Aramaic Index to the Septuagint : Keyed
              to the
              > Hatch-Redpath Concordance." 160 p . Grand Rapids: Baker Bk House,
              1998.
              >
              > This is just a short list, but a place to start.
              >
              > In summary, I would not recommend reliance on the UBSGNT to answer
              questions
              > of this sort.
              >
              >
              > greetings,
              > Clay Bartholomew
              >
              > *ALAND, Kurt and Barbara: The Text of The New Testament,
              > revised and enlarged, Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans, 1989.
            • CS Bartholomew
              ... Adam, There are dozens of books that fall into that category. I just grabbed a few I had at hand: Kraft, Robert A. SNTS Seminar on The Greek New
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
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                On 9/19/03 12:45 PM, "ajsilverstar" <Zarphon@...> wrote:

                > I'm somewhat surprised that there is no book (at least no one has
                > mentioned it to date here) that has discussed the many OT quotations
                > found in the GNT.


                Adam,

                There are dozens of books that fall into that category.

                I just grabbed a few I had at hand:

                Kraft, Robert A. "SNTS Seminar on "The Greek New Testament and the
                Septuagint" : [Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas, Claremont, Calif, Ag 30-S
                1 1972]." Bulletin of the International Organization for Septuagint and
                Cognate Studies 6 (1973): 9.

                Most, William G. "Did St Luke Imitate the Septuagint." Journal for the Study
                of the New Testament No 15 (1982): 30-41.

                Müller, Mogens."The Septuagint As the Bible of the New Testament Church :
                Some Reflections." SJOT 7, no. 2 (1993): 194-207.

                Rife, J Merle. "Matthew's Beatitudes and the Septuagint." Studies in History
                and Text of the New Testament in Honor of Kenneth Willis Clark., 107-12.
                Salt Lake City: Univ Of Utah Pr, 1967.

                Silva, Moisés. "The New Testament Use of the Old Testament : Text Form and
                Authority [Heb 11:21]." Scripture and Truth., 147-65. Grand Rapids, Mich:
                Zondervan, 1983.

                Spottorno, Victoria. "The Lucianic Text of Kings in the New Testament." 7th
                Congress of the International Organization for Septuagint and Cognate
                Studies, Leuven 1989., 279-84. Atlanta: Scholars Pr, 1991.

                White, Wade A. "The Septuagint and the Formation of New Testament Theology :
                Some Exegetical and Theological Considerations [Tables]." Full of the Holy
                Spirit and Faith., 1-21. Wolfville, NS: Gaspereau Pr, 1997.

                This isn't an authoritative list, just what I could find in the LXX
                bibliography searching on New Testament.


                greetings,
                Clay Bartholomew
              • ajsilverstar
                Mr. Bartholomew, I was hoping I would instigate an answer with that whining/challenging approach. :) You ve been a very big help to me and my paper. Moises
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 19, 2003
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                  Mr. Bartholomew,

                  I was hoping I would instigate an answer with that
                  whining/challenging approach. :) You've been a very big help to me
                  and my paper. Moises Silva and Rober Kraft's Themes looks especially
                  promising. In view of the two biggest Jeremiah quotes being in
                  Hebrews, no doubt a critical commentary on Hebrews is also in order.

                  Thanks again. This group is fantastic and helpful.

                  Sincerely,
                  Adam

                  --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, CS Bartholomew <jacksonpollock@e...>
                  wrote:
                  > On 9/19/03 12:45 PM, "ajsilverstar" <Zarphon@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I'm somewhat surprised that there is no book (at least no one has
                  > > mentioned it to date here) that has discussed the many OT
                  quotations
                  > > found in the GNT.
                  >
                  >
                  > Adam,
                  >
                  > There are dozens of books that fall into that category.
                  >
                  > I just grabbed a few I had at hand:
                  >
                  > Kraft, Robert A. "SNTS Seminar on "The Greek New Testament and the
                  > Septuagint" : [Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas, Claremont,
                  Calif, Ag 30-S
                  > 1 1972]." Bulletin of the International Organization for Septuagint
                  and
                  > Cognate Studies 6 (1973): 9.
                  >
                  > Most, William G. "Did St Luke Imitate the Septuagint." Journal for
                  the Study
                  > of the New Testament No 15 (1982): 30-41.
                  >
                  > Müller, Mogens."The Septuagint As the Bible of the New Testament
                  Church :
                  > Some Reflections." SJOT 7, no. 2 (1993): 194-207.
                  >
                  > Rife, J Merle. "Matthew's Beatitudes and the Septuagint." Studies
                  in History
                  > and Text of the New Testament in Honor of Kenneth Willis Clark.,
                  107-12.
                  > Salt Lake City: Univ Of Utah Pr, 1967.
                  >
                  > Silva, Moisés. "The New Testament Use of the Old Testament : Text
                  Form and
                  > Authority [Heb 11:21]." Scripture and Truth., 147-65. Grand Rapids,
                  Mich:
                  > Zondervan, 1983.
                  >
                  > Spottorno, Victoria. "The Lucianic Text of Kings in the New
                  Testament." 7th
                  > Congress of the International Organization for Septuagint and
                  Cognate
                  > Studies, Leuven 1989., 279-84. Atlanta: Scholars Pr, 1991.
                  >
                  > White, Wade A. "The Septuagint and the Formation of New Testament
                  Theology :
                  > Some Exegetical and Theological Considerations [Tables]." Full of
                  the Holy
                  > Spirit and Faith., 1-21. Wolfville, NS: Gaspereau Pr, 1997.
                  >
                  > This isn't an authoritative list, just what I could find in the LXX
                  > bibliography searching on New Testament.
                  >
                  >
                  > greetings,
                  > Clay Bartholomew
                • Michael Jay
                  -- Clay Bartholomew Thank you for your short list. I was aware that UBS4 was imperfect -- but its on my shelf, and does not require me to borrow it from
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 21, 2003
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                    -- Clay Bartholomew

                    Thank you for your short list. I was aware that UBS4 was imperfect --
                    but its on my shelf, and does not require me to borrow it from
                    another state, or order it for a week's pay... if I could find it at
                    all. (I currently do not have access to a University library, I live
                    almost 250 miles from the nearest Seminary.)


                    If I were writing an accedemic paper, it would as laughable to use
                    the index at the end of my New Testament to prove the relationship of
                    the NT to the LXX as it would to use a chain refrence Bible to prove
                    that passages were somehow related -- but both of these can give me a
                    list of passages to study before the resource book I must order
                    arrive where I live. The knowledge of a little Greek and Hebrew goes
                    a long way... simple things like this allows me to do background
                    study before I ever get the books written by the real authorities in
                    the field.

                    Like you I would not recomend relying on something as simple as an
                    index -- but every little thing helps (esp. if it is something likely
                    to already sit on a private bookshelf.)

                    Michael
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