Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Sense and word divisions, and punctuation.

Expand Messages
  • Andrew
    Sense and word divisions, and punctuation. http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumdir.htm The Qumran Isaiah scroll Q or Qa (the so called Great Isaiah Scroll, that is
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 12, 2003
      Sense and word divisions, and punctuation.
       
      http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumdir.htm
      The Qumran Isaiah scroll Q or Qa (the so called Great Isaiah Scroll, that is about 100% complete) dated 100 BC has complete word division from the first to the last word. So the reader can see even the word "Immanuel" written as one word (contrary to the Masoretic Traditional Text). There is also an indentation which is a paragraph mark when the preceding line has been filled with text. But more frequently, the gaps at the end of the line which are left unfilled are a sign of end of paragraph.
       
      There are also Old Greek manuscripts with word and sense divisions.
      So, Can I say that these facts are the end of the well known theory of the Continuous Writing?
       
      Can I suppose that some of the Christian codices are with big letters and continuous writing due to improper piety? (only question)
       
      Jesus said: For verily I say unto you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all come to pass.
       
      Please, notice that Jesus said:
      1. iotha - a letter from the Greek alphabet; it is not the Hebrew letter "yod". This is evidence that he is speaking about the Greek scriptures.
      2. tittle - the Greek word is keraia, which many old Greek grammarians treat as punctuation or accents.
       
      Is it possible that Jesus is talking about the Greek text with punctuations, and even accents.
       
      Thank you for your comments.
      God bless you.
      Andrew
    • tmcos@canada.com
      On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:58:06 +0300, Andrew wrote: Sense and word divisions, and punctuation.   http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumdir.htm The Qumran Isaiah
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 12, 2003
        On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:58:06 +0300, "Andrew" wrote:










        Sense and word divisions, and
        punctuation.
         
        http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumdir.htm
        The Qumran Isaiah scroll Q or Qa (the so called Great
        Isaiah Scroll, that is
        about 100% complete) dated 100 BC has complete word
        division from the first to
        the last word. So the reader can see even the word
        "Immanuel" written as one
        word (contrary to the Masoretic Traditional Text).
        There is also an indentation
        which is a paragraph mark when the preceding line has
        been filled with text. But
        more frequently, the gaps at the end of the line which
        are left unfilled are a
        sign of end of paragraph.
         
        There are also Old Greek manuscripts with word and
        sense divisions.So, Can I say that these facts are the
        end of the well known
        theory of the Continuous Writing?
         
        Can I suppose that some of the Christian codices
        are with big letters and continuous writing due to
        improper piety? (only
        question)
         
        Jesus said: For verily I say unto you, Until the
        heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle
        shall in no wise pass
        from the law till all come to pass.
         
        Please, notice that Jesus said:1. iotha - a
        letter from the Greek alphabet; it is not the Hebrew
        letter "yod". This is
        evidence that he is speaking about the Greek
        scriptures.2. tittle - the
        Greek word is keraia, which many old Greek grammarians
        treat as punctuation or
        accents.

        Andrew, you have to bear in mind that Jesus spoke
        Aramaic (although He would have also been familiar with
        Greek) and there is some probability that the gospel of
        Matthew may have been originally written in
        Hebrew/Aramaic according to the testimony of Papias an
        early Christian writer. Eusebius, the church historian
        quotes Papias on this point of the original writing of
        Matthew. The intriguing thing about Matthew is that in
        his quotations from the OT, he quotes the Greek LXX,
        but at times his OT quotations are closer to the Hebrew
        MT! It seems Matthew was familiar with both LXX and MT.
        The Greek letter "iota" would correspond to the Hebrew
        'yod' as evidenced when the Greek attempts to
        transliterate Hebrew words that begin with "yod"
        (eg.Jerusalem). The "tittle" I would take as a
        reference to the Hebrew "vav" or "waw". The point of
        Jesus' statement is that not even the most little
        strokes in the Scriptures would pass away before
        reaching their fulfillment. Best regards,

        Tony Costa, M.A.
        DTh candidate (University of South Africa)
         
        Is it possible that Jesus is talking about the
        Greek text with punctuations, and even accents.
         
        Thank you for your comments.God bless
        you.Andrew






        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


        ADVERTISEMENT









        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of Service.
      • Robert Kraft
        ... Yes, this is typical of the Hebrew materials, early and late. ... This is one of the questions on which I m working -- see earlier posts. Continuous
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 12, 2003
          > Sense and word divisions, and punctuation.

          > http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qumdir.htm

          > The Qumran Isaiah scroll Q or Qa (the so called Great Isaiah Scroll, that i=
          > s about 100% complete) dated 100 BC has complete word division from the fir=
          > st to the last word. So the reader can see even the word "Immanuel" written=
          > as one word (contrary to the Masoretic Traditional Text). There is also an=
          > indentation which is a paragraph mark when the preceding line has been fil=
          > led with text. But more frequently, the gaps at the end of the line which a=
          > re left unfilled are a sign of end of paragraph.=20

          Yes, this is typical of the Hebrew materials, early and late.

          > There are also Old Greek manuscripts with word and sense divisions.
          > So, Can I say that these facts are the end of the well known theory of the =
          > Continuous Writing?

          This is one of the questions on which I'm working -- see earlier posts.
          "Continuous writing" does appear in many Christian manuscripts in late
          antiquity, and in most "classical" texts. Whether this represents a change from
          earlier Greek Jewish scribal practice, and whether the earlier Christian
          materials followed that Greek Jewish practice, is an aspect of the problem.

          > Can I suppose that some of the Christian codices are with big letters and c=
          > ontinuous writing due to improper piety? (only question)

          What does "piety" have to do with it? If by "big letters" you mean what is
          usually called "uncial" or "majuscule," this is typical of the early Greek
          Jewish materials as well. If you mean enlarged letters at the start of sense
          units (often on the margin), this also is attested in the early Greek Jewish
          material. I doubt that one can easily turn scribal conventions into theological
          judgments.

          > Jesus said: For verily I say unto you, Until the heaven and the earth pass =
          > away, one iota or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all co=
          > me to pass.
          >
          > Please, notice that Jesus said:
          > 1. iotha - a letter from the Greek alphabet; it is not the Hebrew letter "y=
          > od". This is evidence that he is speaking about the Greek scriptures.
          > 2. tittle - the Greek word is keraia, which many old Greek grammarians trea=
          > t as punctuation or accents.
          >
          > Is it possible that Jesus is talking about the Greek text with punctuations=
          > , and even accents.

          And interesting question, not in relation to the problems of whether Jesus
          actually spoke Greek (probably not) or whether the gospel tradition in Matthew
          is an accurate report of what Jesus said in any language (which needs to be
          argued case by case), but in relation to what the gospel tradition editor in
          Greek intended to communicate, and what the first readers of this material
          thought it was saying! That is, if we date the Matthean edition to, say, 100 CE,
          does it provide evidence about Greek scribal conventions at that time? There is
          good evidence in some manuscripts for at least the use of rough breathings (to
          disambiguate certain words) and the dieresis/trema (to clarify the use of
          certain vowels and diphthongs). Would such things qualify as "keraia" (rather
          than the decorative serifs and half-serifs that also abound on Greek letters of
          that period)? I don't know.

          Incidentally, Roger Bagnall (Columbia University, a internationally renown
          papyrologist) recently wrote on the passage in Luke where Jesus is given
          material to read in the Nazareth synagogue and a textual (and conceptual)
          problem exists as to what is meant by "he closed the book." Bagnall wonders
          whether the text and variant may have been affected by the introduction of the
          codex format (thus "closed" not "rolled up") in Christian circles. What did the
          Lukan editor mean, what did the early readers understand, and why was the
          textual variant introduced (and when?)? Historical research has many different
          levels!

          Bob

          > Thank you for your comments.
          > God bless you.
          > Andrew

          --
          Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania
          227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827
          kraft@...
          http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/kraft.html
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.