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Judges 19:22-25

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  • J. Earl
    I need an English translation of Judges 19:22-25 in a great way; other than Brenton s. George F. Moore, in his International Critical Commentary, reports three
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 3, 2003
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      I need an English translation of Judges 19:22-25 in a great way;
      other than Brenton's. George F. Moore, in his International Critical
      Commentary, reports three 19th century scholars (Ernst Bertheau, Karl
      Budde, and Adam van Doorninck) who strongly suggest that the sons of
      Belial, outside the house in Gibeah, wanted "to (sexually) know" the
      concubine and NOT the Levite. There is evidently a conflict with the
      Masoretic text here and I have no access to any of the works that
      Moore cites. Brenton's Septuagint agrees closely with the Masoretic,
      and I'm seeking knowledge of different texts. Can anyone help?
    • c.s.bartholomew@worldnet.att.net
      ... Earl, There is nothing in the LXX that supports this reading. Jdg. 19:22b ... behold the men of the city sons of lawless surrounded the house and knocked
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 3, 2003
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        on 7/3/03 10:02 PM J. Earl wrote:

        > I need an English translation of Judges 19:22-25 in a great way;
        > other than Brenton's. George F. Moore, in his International Critical
        > Commentary, reports three 19th century scholars (Ernst Bertheau, Karl
        > Budde, and Adam van Doorninck) who strongly suggest that the sons of
        > Belial, outside the house in Gibeah, wanted "to (sexually) know" the
        > concubine and NOT the Levite. There is evidently a conflict with the
        > Masoretic text here and I have no access to any of the works that
        > Moore cites. Brenton's Septuagint agrees closely with the Masoretic,
        > and I'm seeking knowledge of different texts. Can anyone help?

        Earl,

        There is nothing in the LXX that supports this reading.

        Jdg. 19:22b ... behold the men of the city sons of lawless surrounded the
        house and knocked at the door and spoke to the old man the master of the
        house saying: Bring out the man who came into your house in order that we
        might sodomize him ...

        The object of EXAGAGE (bring out) is TON ANDRA (the man - human male) and
        cannot be a concubine can it?

        In 19:23 again the reference is to TON ANDRA TOUTON (this man - human male)
        who "came into my house."


        For details see pages 78-85 in:
        Donald J. Wold, Out of Order. : Homosexuality in the Bible & the Ancient
        Near East, Baker Books (1999)

        --
        Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
        Three Tree Point
        P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
      • J. Earl
        Thanks for the help. There is compelling evidence that the concubine was actually the desire of the sons of Belial afterall. This forum is likely not the
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 4, 2003
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          Thanks for the help. There is compelling evidence that the concubine
          was actually the desire of the sons of Belial afterall. This forum is
          likely not the proper place to present evidence in defense of this
          position though. There are numerous, well known problems with the
          Masoretic text in this passage and my attempt here was to seek
          information from any of the Septuagint texts that might possibly
          further support my alternative interpretation to the traditional
          teaching. Also, thank you for the reference regarding the book by
          Donald J. Wold. While I've not considered his comments to date, I do
          have a very lengthy number of works already researched and look
          forward to reading his position as I have access to that work.
          Somehow though, I expect his comments to be a restating of the
          commonly held offerings that have previously been stated by others.

          Respectfully,
          J. Earl Dugger
          Kenmore, Washington

          --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, <c.s.bartholomew@w...> wrote:
          > on 7/3/03 10:02 PM J. Earl wrote:
          >
          > > I need an English translation of Judges 19:22-25 in a great way;
          > > other than Brenton's. George F. Moore, in his International
          Critical
          > > Commentary, reports three 19th century scholars (Ernst Bertheau,
          Karl
          > > Budde, and Adam van Doorninck) who strongly suggest that the sons
          of
          > > Belial, outside the house in Gibeah, wanted "to (sexually) know"
          the
          > > concubine and NOT the Levite. There is evidently a conflict with
          the
          > > Masoretic text here and I have no access to any of the works that
          > > Moore cites. Brenton's Septuagint agrees closely with the
          Masoretic,
          > > and I'm seeking knowledge of different texts. Can anyone help?
          >
          > Earl,
          >
          > There is nothing in the LXX that supports this reading.
          >
          > Jdg. 19:22b ... behold the men of the city sons of lawless
          surrounded the
          > house and knocked at the door and spoke to the old man the master
          of the
          > house saying: Bring out the man who came into your house in order
          that we
          > might sodomize him ...
          >
          > The object of EXAGAGE (bring out) is TON ANDRA (the man - human
          male) and
          > cannot be a concubine can it?
          >
          > In 19:23 again the reference is to TON ANDRA TOUTON (this man -
          human male)
          > who "came into my house."
          >
          >
          > For details see pages 78-85 in:
          > Donald J. Wold, Out of Order. : Homosexuality in the Bible & the
          Ancient
          > Near East, Baker Books (1999)
          >
          > --
          > Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
          > Three Tree Point
          > P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
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