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Old LXX translations...

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  • chrisbitmead <chris@bitmead.com>
    Were all the old Christian scripture translations taken from the LXX? (Which ones?) Is it correct to say that Jerome was the first Christian to use the Hebrew
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 12, 2003
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      Were all the old Christian scripture translations taken from the LXX?
      (Which ones?)

      Is it correct to say that Jerome was the first Christian to use the
      Hebrew as a basis for translation?
    • dchymes <dchymes@hotmail.com>
      Hi, ... LXX? (Which ones?) N.B. Remember that the LXX has its own textual history in which there were several updates to say the least. . . both Jewish and
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 12, 2003
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        Hi,

        > Were all the old Christian scripture translations taken from the
        LXX? (Which ones?)

        N.B. Remember that the LXX has its own textual history in which there
        were several updates to say the least. . . both Jewish and Christian
        scholars revised the texts!

        The Peshitta MAY have been Christian, dating to the 1st or 2nd
        century CE. (See Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, 151-153;
        Dirksen gives a more detailed study and many pros/cons on the Jewish
        or Christian or both/and arguments.) The Hebrew Vorlage
        is "practically identical with MT, or at least very close to it."
        (Dirksen, in Mikra, 258-9)

        > Is it correct to say that Jerome was the first Christian to use the
        > Hebrew as a basis for translation?

        Yes, but . . .

        The Vugate was translated between 390-405CE.

        Although not a complete translation of a Hebrew text, still Origen's
        Hexapla indicates that he valued the Hebrew. (Middle of the 3rd
        century CE)

        David
      • chrisbitmead <chris@bitmead.com>
        ... Is there a web site or something that summarises the situation?
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 12, 2003
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          > N.B. Remember that the LXX has its own textual history in which there
          > were several updates to say the least. . . both Jewish and Christian
          > scholars revised the texts!


          Is there a web site or something that summarises the situation?
        • crimson snow
          http://www.lxx.org/ pdf files ... Is there a web site or something that summarises the situation? Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT var lrec_target= _top ;var
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 12, 2003
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            http://www.lxx.org/

            pdf files

             "chrisbitmead <chris@...>" <chris@...> wrote:


            > N.B. Remember that the LXX has its own textual history in which there
            > were several updates to say the least. . . both Jewish and Christian
            > scholars revised the texts!


            Is there a web site or something that summarises the situation?







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          • Matthew A. Kraus
            ... This is a complicated question in part because the definition of Christian is quite fluid in the early stages of Christianities. Moreover, one should
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 12, 2003
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              >
              > > Is it correct to say that Jerome was the first Christian to use the
              > > Hebrew as a basis for translation?>

              This is a complicated question in part because the definition of Christian
              is quite fluid in the early stages of Christianities. Moreover, one
              should distinguish betweem using the Hebrew as THE basis (Jerome) and A
              basis
              (Origen,e.g.). Even Origen could claim the crown because he uses the
              Hebrew as a basis for reconstructing the LXX. The Lucianic recension
              (prior to Jerome) also tends to Hebraize
              the Septuagint. Jerome himself explains discrepancies between the New
              Testament citations and the LXX on the grounds that the apostles were
              translating or paraphrasing directly from the Hebrew. Finally, the
              provenance of the LXX's origin myth suggest a widespread belief that the
              LXX was based on the Hebrew. So it would be more accurate to say that
              Christians very early on utilized a translation believed to be based on
              the Hebrew, a notion problematized by Origen and Jerome. Jerome's
              significance does not lie primarly in the fact that he translated
              directly from
              the Hebrew, but that he questioned whether the Septuagintal tradition
              accurately reflected the Hebrew.

              > Yes, but . . . > > The Vugate was
              translated between 390-405CE.
              > > Although not a complete translation of a Hebrew text, still Origen's
              > Hexapla indicates that he valued the Hebrew. (Middle of the 3rd
              > century CE)
              >

              Matthew Kraus
              Associate Professor of Classics
              Williams College
              Stetson Hall
              Williamstown, MA 01267
              (413)597-2465
            • David C. Hindley
              ... Besides the Lxx.org site already mentioned, there is graduate student Joel Kalvesmaki s site on the Septuagint: http://students.cua.edu/16kalvesmaki/lxx/
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 12, 2003
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                Chris asks:

                >>Is there a web site or something that summarises the situation?<<

                Besides the Lxx.org site already mentioned, there is graduate student Joel
                Kalvesmaki's site on the Septuagint:
                http://students.cua.edu/16kalvesmaki/lxx/

                Respectfully,

                Dave Hindley
                Cleveland, Ohio, USA
              • Schmuel
                Hi lxx Matthew ... Schmuel Do you have that reference(s) available ? Any help appreciated :-) Matthew ... The Tanach, yes, the Gospels were give to Pope
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 13, 2003
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                  Hi lxx

                  Matthew
                  >Jerome himself explains discrepancies between the New Testament citations and the LXX on the grounds that the apostles were translating or paraphrasing directly from the Hebrew.

                  Schmuel
                  Do you have that reference(s) available ?
                  Any help appreciated :-)

                  Matthew
                  >> The Vugate was translated between 390-405CE.

                  The Tanach, yes, the Gospels were give to Pope Damasus in 384 AD, in an
                  earlier period in Jerome's life..

                  Shalom,
                  Steven Avery
                  Bayside, NY


                  Schmuel@...

                  Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
                • M.Kraus
                  Dear Schmuel, Check ep. 57.7 and G. J. M. Bartelink s excellent commentary on the letter (Leiden, 1980). MK ... Matthew Kraus Assosciate Professor of
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 13, 2003
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                    Dear Schmuel,
                    Check ep. 57.7 and G. J. M. Bartelink's excellent commentary on the
                    letter (Leiden, 1980).
                    MK
                    >Hi lxx
                    >
                    >Matthew
                    >>Jerome himself explains discrepancies between the New Testament citations
                    >>and the LXX on the grounds that the apostles were translating or
                    >>paraphrasing directly from the Hebrew.
                    >
                    >Schmuel
                    >Do you have that reference(s) available ?
                    >Any help appreciated :-)
                    >
                    >Matthew
                    >>> The Vugate was translated between 390-405CE.
                    >
                    >The Tanach, yes, the Gospels were give to Pope Damasus in 384 AD, in an
                    >earlier period in Jerome's life..
                    >
                    >Shalom,
                    >Steven Avery
                    >Bayside, NY
                    >
                    >
                    >Schmuel@...
                    >
                    >Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                    Matthew Kraus
                    Assosciate Professor of Classics and Jewish Studies
                    Stetson Hall b19
                    Williams College
                    Williamstown, MA 01267
                    (413)597-2465
                    Fax (413)597-4222
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