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Book of Odes

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  • Filotheu Monahul
    Dear all, I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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      Dear all,

      I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?

      Thanks.
      Monk Filotheus


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    • James
      By your leave sir... what s the book of Odes?? James. .
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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        By your leave sir... what 's the book of Odes??

        James.
        .
        On 6/27/2014 3:26 AM, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
        >
        > Dear all,
        >
        > I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of
        > Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
        > testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
        >
        > Thanks.
        > Monk Filotheus
        >
        > ---
        > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
        > protection is active.
        > http://www.avast.com
        >
        >
      • Filotheu Monahul
        From Swete, p. 238-240 in my pdf: THE ECCLESIASTICAL CANTICLES. In certain uncial MSS. and a large proportion of the cursives the Psalms are followed by a
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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          From Swete, p. 238-240 in my pdf:

          "THE ECCLESIASTICAL CANTICLES.
          In certain uncial MSS. and a large proportion of the cursives the Psalms are followed by a collection of liturgical ᾠδαί (cantica). [...] The nine Odes now sung at Lauds in the Orthodox Church are (following the order of cod. A) nos. 1, 2, 3, 6, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11 + 13; the Roman Church uses at Lauds on successive days of the week 10, Isa. xii., Isa. xxxviii. 10—20, 3, 1, 6, 2, whilst 13, 11, 12 are recited daily at Lauds, Vespers, and Compline respectively545."


          On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:01:33 -0400
          "James jamesjay@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          > By your leave sir... what 's the book of Odes??
          >
          > James.
          > .
          > On 6/27/2014 3:26 AM, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear all,
          > >
          > > I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of
          > > Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
          > > testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
          > >
          > > Thanks.
          > > Monk Filotheus
          > >
          > > ---
          > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
          > > protection is active.
          > > http://www.avast.com
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo Groups Links
          >
          >
          >


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        • Barry
          http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Odes_(Bible) N.E. Barry Hofstetter Sent from my iPad Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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            http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Odes_(Bible)

            N.E. Barry Hofstetter
            Sent from my iPad
            Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution with which I may be affiliated

            On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:01 AM, "James jamesjay@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            By your leave sir... what 's the book of Odes??

            James.
            .
            On 6/27/2014 3:26 AM, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:

            Dear all,

            I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of
            Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
            testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?

            Thanks.
            Monk Filotheus

            ---
            This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
            protection is active.
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          • Filotheu Monahul
            The information out there is taken from Swete, whose study is very undocumented. On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:56:21 -0400 ... -- ... This email is free from viruses
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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              The information out there is taken from Swete, whose study is very undocumented.

              On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:56:21 -0400
              "Barry nebarry@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Odes_(Bible)
              >
              > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
              > Sent from my iPad
              > Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution with which I may be affiliated
              >
              > > On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:01 AM, "James jamesjay@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              > >
              > > By your leave sir... what 's the book of Odes??
              > >
              > > James.
              > > .
              > >> On 6/27/2014 3:26 AM, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Dear all,
              > >>
              > >> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of
              > >> Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
              > >> testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
              > >>
              > >> Thanks.
              > >> Monk Filotheus
              > >>
              > >> ---
              > >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
              > >> protection is active.
              > >> http://www.avast.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >


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            • kraft@...
              See the Goettingen edition of Psalms and Odes for detailed information. http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/ioscs/editions.html RAK
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                See the Goettingen edition of Psalms and Odes for detailed information.
                http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/ioscs/editions.html

                RAK

                Quoting "Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com>:

                > Dear all,
                >
                > I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction
                > of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
                > testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                >
                > Thanks.
                > Monk Filotheus
                >
                >
                > ---
                > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
                > protection is active.
                > http://www.avast.com
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                > Posted by: Filotheu Monahul <filotheu@...>
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Tommy Wasserman
                See my recent article in JBL on the Book of Odes and Christian singing. It contains the references you are looking for. Tommy Wasserman
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                  See my recent article in JBL on the Book of Odes and Christian singing. It contains the references you are looking for.

                  Tommy Wasserman


                  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
                  From: LXX@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 6/27/2014 7:04:12 AM
                  To: LXX@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc:
                  Subject: Re: [LXX] Book of Odes

                   

                  The information out there is taken from Swete, whose study is very undocumented.

                  On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:56:21 -0400
                  "Barry nebarry@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Odes_(Bible)
                  >
                  > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
                  > Sent from my iPad
                  > Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution with which I may be affiliated
                  >
                  > > On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:01 AM, "James jamesjay@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > By your leave sir... what 's the book of Odes??
                  > >
                  > > James.
                  > > .
                  > >> On 6/27/2014 3:26 AM, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> Dear all,
                  > >>
                  > >> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of
                  > >> Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
                  > >> testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                  > >>
                  > >> Thanks.
                  > >> Monk Filotheus
                  > >>
                  > >> ---
                  > >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
                  > >> protection is active.
                  > >> http://www.avast.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >

                  --

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                • James Miller
                  If you re wanting something in English you might have a look at my dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes in the Codex
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                    If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                    dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                    in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                    to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                    Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                    articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                    articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                    the most extensive study in English.

                    James

                    On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:

                    >  
                    >
                    > Dear all,
                    >
                    > I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                    > Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                    >
                    > Thanks.
                    > Monk Filotheus
                    >
                    > ---
                    > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                    > http://www.avast.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Filotheu Monahul
                    Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century). On Fri, 27
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                      Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).

                      On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                      "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      > If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                      > dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                      > in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                      > to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                      > Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                      > articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                      > articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                      > the most extensive study in English.
                      >
                      > James
                      >
                      > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                      >
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > > Dear all,
                      > >
                      > > I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                      > > Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks.
                      > > Monk Filotheus
                      > >
                      > > ---
                      > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                      > > http://www.avast.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >


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                    • Filotheu Monahul
                      Thank you, dear professor. I will find a way to read it. I would like to know if you met other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                        Thank you, dear professor.

                        I will find a way to read it. I would like to know if you met other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).

                        On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:33:58 -0700
                        "'Tommy Wasserman' tomwas@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        > See my recent article in JBL on the Book of Odes and Christian singing.
                        > It contains the references you are looking for.
                        >
                        > Tommy Wasserman
                        >
                        >
                        > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
                        > From: LXX@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: 6/27/2014 7:04:12 AM
                        > To: LXX@yahoogroups.com
                        > Cc:
                        > Subject: Re: [LXX] Book of Odes
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The information out there is taken from Swete, whose study is very
                        > undocumented.
                        >
                        > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:56:21 -0400
                        > "Barry nebarry@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        >
                        > > http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Odes_(Bible)
                        > >
                        > > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
                        > > Sent from my iPad
                        > > Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any
                        > institution with which I may be affiliated
                        > >
                        > > > On Jun 27, 2014, at 9:01 AM, "James jamesjay@... [LXX]"
                        > <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > By your leave sir... what 's the book of Odes??
                        > > >
                        > > > James.
                        > > > .
                        > > >> On 6/27/2014 3:26 AM, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX]
                        > wrote:
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Dear all,
                        > > >>
                        > > >> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction
                        > of
                        > > >> Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
                        > > >> testimonies. Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                        > > >>
                        > > >> Thanks.
                        > > >> Monk Filotheus
                        > > >>
                        > > >> ---
                        > > >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
                        > Antivirus
                        > > >> protection is active.
                        > > >> http://www.avast.com
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > >
                        > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ------------------------------------
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > --
                        >
                        > ---
                        > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
                        > protection is active.
                        > http://www.avast.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


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                      • James Miller
                        It s hard to say whether there s anything older because of the fragmentary nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd century scrap of
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                          It's hard to say whether there's anything older because of the fragmentary
                          nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd
                          century scrap of parchment that contains, for example, Deut 32, is that a
                          witness to the Biblical Odes collection or to a biblical manuscript?
                          Absent other material from the same manuscript or other clear indicators,
                          there's no way to tell. My research did indicate to me, however, that the
                          assumption scholars are likely to make is that this would be witness to a
                          biblical, rather than to a Biblical Odes, manuscript.

                          Liturgical material seems quite off the radar for biblical scholars, even
                          when that material contains biblical excerpts. My dissertation, for
                          example, found that the Odes collection in Alexandrinus witnesses to 5th
                          century readings that biblical scholars had never, up to that point,
                          consulted. The presumption seems to have been that the text of the
                          biblical books in Codex A would have been used for copying out the
                          excerpts found in the Biblical Odes section of that manuscript; but my
                          research indicated that those excerpts had more likely come from a
                          pre-existing Biblical Odes manuscript with its own separate manuscript
                          tradition.

                          Indications can be found in the writings of some ancient authors such as
                          Origen and Melito that such biblical odes were being used in worship
                          during their era, if that's what you mean by "testimony." The evidence is
                          not unequivocal, but past researchers have inferred from it that the
                          liturgical tradition stretches into the earliest decades of Christianity.
                          The practice has also been seen as contiguous with certain pre-Christian,
                          Jewish worship customs. But that veers a bit away from this list's
                          concerns; if you'd like a more detailed summary, have a look at my
                          dissertation.

                          James

                          On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:

                          > Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).
                          >
                          > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                          > "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                          >
                          >> If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                          >> dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                          >> in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                          >> to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                          >> Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                          >> articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                          >> articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                          >> the most extensive study in English.
                          >>
                          >> James
                          >>
                          >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> �
                          >>>
                          >>> Dear all,
                          >>>
                          >>> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                          >>> Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                          >>>
                          >>> Thanks.
                          >>> Monk Filotheus
                          >>>
                          >>> ---
                          >>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                          >>> http://www.avast.com
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          >
                          > ---
                          > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                          > http://www.avast.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Filotheu Monahul
                          Thank you, dear James. I found your work here: http://epublications.marquette.edu/dissertations/AAI3231313/ You are right asking how an ancient text should be
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                            Thank you, dear James.

                            I found your work here: http://epublications.marquette.edu/dissertations/AAI3231313/
                            You are right asking how an ancient text should be labeled. If we could have any fragment containing any of two neighour Odes, it would be clear for anyone what is that fragment.
                            Do you happen to know if the same liturgic practice was in the Syriac speaking Christian communities as in the Antioch? If not, what was it?

                            On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:42:23 -0500 (CDT)
                            "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            > It's hard to say whether there's anything older because of the fragmentary
                            > nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd
                            > century scrap of parchment that contains, for example, Deut 32, is that a
                            > witness to the Biblical Odes collection or to a biblical manuscript?
                            > Absent other material from the same manuscript or other clear indicators,
                            > there's no way to tell. My research did indicate to me, however, that the
                            > assumption scholars are likely to make is that this would be witness to a
                            > biblical, rather than to a Biblical Odes, manuscript.
                            >
                            > Liturgical material seems quite off the radar for biblical scholars, even
                            > when that material contains biblical excerpts. My dissertation, for
                            > example, found that the Odes collection in Alexandrinus witnesses to 5th
                            > century readings that biblical scholars had never, up to that point,
                            > consulted. The presumption seems to have been that the text of the
                            > biblical books in Codex A would have been used for copying out the
                            > excerpts found in the Biblical Odes section of that manuscript; but my
                            > research indicated that those excerpts had more likely come from a
                            > pre-existing Biblical Odes manuscript with its own separate manuscript
                            > tradition.
                            >
                            > Indications can be found in the writings of some ancient authors such as
                            > Origen and Melito that such biblical odes were being used in worship
                            > during their era, if that's what you mean by "testimony." The evidence is
                            > not unequivocal, but past researchers have inferred from it that the
                            > liturgical tradition stretches into the earliest decades of Christianity.
                            > The practice has also been seen as contiguous with certain pre-Christian,
                            > Jewish worship customs. But that veers a bit away from this list's
                            > concerns; if you'd like a more detailed summary, have a look at my
                            > dissertation.
                            >
                            > James
                            >
                            > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                            >
                            > > Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).
                            > >
                            > > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                            > > "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                            > >> dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                            > >> in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                            > >> to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                            > >> Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                            > >> articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                            > >> articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                            > >> the most extensive study in English.
                            > >>
                            > >> James
                            > >>
                            > >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >>>  
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Dear all,
                            > >>>
                            > >>> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                            > >>> Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Thanks.
                            > >>> Monk Filotheus
                            > >>>
                            > >>> ---
                            > >>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                            > >>> http://www.avast.com
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>
                            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ---
                            > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                            > > http://www.avast.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
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                          • James Miller
                            First, let me offer a correction. Since it s been awhile that I ve dealt in-depth with the Biblical Odes, I mistakenly recalled that Sysse Gudrun Engberg has
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                              First, let me offer a correction. Since it's been awhile that I've dealt
                              in-depth with the Biblical Odes, I mistakenly recalled that Sysse Gudrun
                              Engberg has done research in this area--I got her mixed up with another,
                              much older author. The other English language researcher who has worked on
                              the Biblical Odes is rather James Mearns, who published his study in the
                              early 20th century. That study is now actually available for
                              download/perusal at archive.org--see
                              https://archive.org/details/canticlesofchris00mearuoft. I did not delve in
                              my dissertation into Syriac Christianity's appropriation of the odes
                              tradition, but Mearns does deal a bit with that tradition in his study.
                              That should form a good starting point for you.

                              James

                              On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:

                              > Thank you, dear James.
                              >
                              > I found your work here: http://epublications.marquette.edu/dissertations/AAI3231313/
                              > You are right asking how an ancient text should be labeled. If we could have any fragment containing any of two neighour Odes, it would be clear for anyone what is that fragment.
                              > Do you happen to know if the same liturgic practice was in the Syriac speaking Christian communities as in the Antioch? If not, what was it?
                              >
                              > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:42:23 -0500 (CDT)
                              > "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                              >
                              >> It's hard to say whether there's anything older because of the fragmentary
                              >> nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd
                              >> century scrap of parchment that contains, for example, Deut 32, is that a
                              >> witness to the Biblical Odes collection or to a biblical manuscript?
                              >> Absent other material from the same manuscript or other clear indicators,
                              >> there's no way to tell. My research did indicate to me, however, that the
                              >> assumption scholars are likely to make is that this would be witness to a
                              >> biblical, rather than to a Biblical Odes, manuscript.
                              >>
                              >> Liturgical material seems quite off the radar for biblical scholars, even
                              >> when that material contains biblical excerpts. My dissertation, for
                              >> example, found that the Odes collection in Alexandrinus witnesses to 5th
                              >> century readings that biblical scholars had never, up to that point,
                              >> consulted. The presumption seems to have been that the text of the
                              >> biblical books in Codex A would have been used for copying out the
                              >> excerpts found in the Biblical Odes section of that manuscript; but my
                              >> research indicated that those excerpts had more likely come from a
                              >> pre-existing Biblical Odes manuscript with its own separate manuscript
                              >> tradition.
                              >>
                              >> Indications can be found in the writings of some ancient authors such as
                              >> Origen and Melito that such biblical odes were being used in worship
                              >> during their era, if that's what you mean by "testimony." The evidence is
                              >> not unequivocal, but past researchers have inferred from it that the
                              >> liturgical tradition stretches into the earliest decades of Christianity.
                              >> The practice has also been seen as contiguous with certain pre-Christian,
                              >> Jewish worship customs. But that veers a bit away from this list's
                              >> concerns; if you'd like a more detailed summary, have a look at my
                              >> dissertation.
                              >>
                              >> James
                              >>
                              >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).
                              >>>
                              >>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                              >>> "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>> If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                              >>>> dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                              >>>> in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                              >>>> to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                              >>>> Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                              >>>> articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                              >>>> articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                              >>>> the most extensive study in English.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> James
                              >>>>
                              >>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                              >>>>
                              >>>>> �
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Dear all,
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                              >>>>> Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Thanks.
                              >>>>> Monk Filotheus
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> ---
                              >>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                              >>>>> http://www.avast.com
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> --
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> ---
                              >>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                              >>> http://www.avast.com
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
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                              >>>
                              >>> ------------------------------------
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> ------------------------------------
                              >>>
                              >>> Yahoo Groups Links
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
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                              >>
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Barry
                              On a Facebook club (which actually has a number of quite reputable people participating), someone advanced the argument that the Odes had to be written by a
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                                On a Facebook club (which actually has a number of quite reputable people participating), someone advanced the argument that the Odes had to be written by a woman, and intimated that there was something about the style that proved the assertion. Now, I recognize corn flakes when I see them, and I've been doing ancient languages for a long time, and have always thought style was gender neutral... :) But do you know of anything which might actually support the claim? Ancient female authors are rare, but they did exist (Sappho comes to mind).

                                N.E. Barry Hofstetter
                                Sent from my iPad
                                Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution with which I may be affiliated

                                > On Jun 27, 2014, at 11:42 AM, "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                >
                                > It's hard to say whether there's anything older because of the fragmentary
                                > nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd
                                > century scrap of parchment that contains, for example, Deut 32, is that a
                                > witness to the Biblical Odes collection or to a biblical manuscript?
                                > Absent other material from the same manuscript or other clear indicators,
                                > there's no way to tell. My research did indicate to me, however, that the
                                > assumption scholars are likely to make is that this would be witness to a
                                > biblical, rather than to a Biblical Odes, manuscript.
                                >
                                > Liturgical material seems quite off the radar for biblical scholars, even
                                > when that material contains biblical excerpts. My dissertation, for
                                > example, found that the Odes collection in Alexandrinus witnesses to 5th
                                > century readings that biblical scholars had never, up to that point,
                                > consulted. The presumption seems to have been that the text of the
                                > biblical books in Codex A would have been used for copying out the
                                > excerpts found in the Biblical Odes section of that manuscript; but my
                                > research indicated that those excerpts had more likely come from a
                                > pre-existing Biblical Odes manuscript with its own separate manuscript
                                > tradition.
                                >
                                > Indications can be found in the writings of some ancient authors such as
                                > Origen and Melito that such biblical odes were being used in worship
                                > during their era, if that's what you mean by "testimony." The evidence is
                                > not unequivocal, but past researchers have inferred from it that the
                                > liturgical tradition stretches into the earliest decades of Christianity.
                                > The practice has also been seen as contiguous with certain pre-Christian,
                                > Jewish worship customs. But that veers a bit away from this list's
                                > concerns; if you'd like a more detailed summary, have a look at my
                                > dissertation.
                                >
                                > James
                                >
                                >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                >>
                                >> Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).
                                >>
                                >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                                >> "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                                >>> dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                                >>> in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                                >>> to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                                >>> Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                                >>> articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                                >>> articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                                >>> the most extensive study in English.
                                >>>
                                >>> James
                                >>>
                                >>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Dear all,
                                >>>>
                                >>>> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                                >>>> Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Thanks.
                                >>>> Monk Filotheus
                                >>>>
                                >>>> ---
                                >>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                >>>> http://www.avast.com
                                >>>
                                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> --
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ---
                                >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                >> http://www.avast.com
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >> Yahoo Groups Links
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Filotheu Monahul
                                Thank you so much! This is invaluable help. On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 11:42:31 -0500 (CDT) ... -- ... This email is free from viruses and malware because avast!
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                                  Thank you so much! This is invaluable help.

                                  On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 11:42:31 -0500 (CDT)
                                  "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                  > First, let me offer a correction. Since it's been awhile that I've dealt
                                  > in-depth with the Biblical Odes, I mistakenly recalled that Sysse Gudrun
                                  > Engberg has done research in this area--I got her mixed up with another,
                                  > much older author. The other English language researcher who has worked on
                                  > the Biblical Odes is rather James Mearns, who published his study in the
                                  > early 20th century. That study is now actually available for
                                  > download/perusal at archive.org--see
                                  > https://archive.org/details/canticlesofchris00mearuoft. I did not delve in
                                  > my dissertation into Syriac Christianity's appropriation of the odes
                                  > tradition, but Mearns does deal a bit with that tradition in his study.
                                  > That should form a good starting point for you.
                                  >
                                  > James
                                  >
                                  > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Thank you, dear James.
                                  > >
                                  > > I found your work here: http://epublications.marquette.edu/dissertations/AAI3231313/
                                  > > You are right asking how an ancient text should be labeled. If we could have any fragment containing any of two neighour Odes, it would be clear for anyone what is that fragment.
                                  > > Do you happen to know if the same liturgic practice was in the Syriac speaking Christian communities as in the Antioch? If not, what was it?
                                  > >
                                  > > On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:42:23 -0500 (CDT)
                                  > > "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >> It's hard to say whether there's anything older because of the fragmentary
                                  > >> nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd
                                  > >> century scrap of parchment that contains, for example, Deut 32, is that a
                                  > >> witness to the Biblical Odes collection or to a biblical manuscript?
                                  > >> Absent other material from the same manuscript or other clear indicators,
                                  > >> there's no way to tell. My research did indicate to me, however, that the
                                  > >> assumption scholars are likely to make is that this would be witness to a
                                  > >> biblical, rather than to a Biblical Odes, manuscript.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Liturgical material seems quite off the radar for biblical scholars, even
                                  > >> when that material contains biblical excerpts. My dissertation, for
                                  > >> example, found that the Odes collection in Alexandrinus witnesses to 5th
                                  > >> century readings that biblical scholars had never, up to that point,
                                  > >> consulted. The presumption seems to have been that the text of the
                                  > >> biblical books in Codex A would have been used for copying out the
                                  > >> excerpts found in the Biblical Odes section of that manuscript; but my
                                  > >> research indicated that those excerpts had more likely come from a
                                  > >> pre-existing Biblical Odes manuscript with its own separate manuscript
                                  > >> tradition.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Indications can be found in the writings of some ancient authors such as
                                  > >> Origen and Melito that such biblical odes were being used in worship
                                  > >> during their era, if that's what you mean by "testimony." The evidence is
                                  > >> not unequivocal, but past researchers have inferred from it that the
                                  > >> liturgical tradition stretches into the earliest decades of Christianity.
                                  > >> The practice has also been seen as contiguous with certain pre-Christian,
                                  > >> Jewish worship customs. But that veers a bit away from this list's
                                  > >> concerns; if you'd like a more detailed summary, have a look at my
                                  > >> dissertation.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> James
                                  > >>
                                  > >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                                  > >>> "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>> If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                                  > >>>> dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                                  > >>>> in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                                  > >>>> to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                                  > >>>> Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                                  > >>>> articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                                  > >>>> articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                                  > >>>> the most extensive study in English.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> James
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>>  
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> Dear all,
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic testimonies.
                                  > >>>>> Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> Thanks.
                                  > >>>>> Monk Filotheus
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> ---
                                  > >>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                  > >>>>> http://www.avast.com
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> --
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> ---
                                  > >>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                  > >>> http://www.avast.com
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> Yahoo Groups Links
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Yahoo Groups Links
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ---
                                  > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                  > > http://www.avast.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
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                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                • James Miller
                                  Like many other biblical scholars, I think you might be under a misimpression about what the Biblical Odes are, Barry. To reiterate, they are excerpts from
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                                    Like many other biblical scholars, I think you might be under a
                                    misimpression about what the Biblical Odes are, Barry. To reiterate, they
                                    are excerpts from biblical and/or deuterocanonical books that were used in
                                    Christian worship--perhaps hymnically--the excerpts being gathered
                                    together into a sort of little "hymnal." An example of one of the Biblical
                                    Odes would be chapter 32 of Deuteronomy, for example, or the Prayer of
                                    Manasseh. In later times, that "hymnal" is found appended to many Psalms
                                    manuscripts. So there is really no question about authorship with respect
                                    to the Biblical Odes--the author is, ultimately, the author of the book of
                                    Deuteronomy or the Prayer of Manasseh--though one might venture to ask who
                                    first selected or compiled these hymnic excerpts. If we're asking whether
                                    the copyist of one or another Biblical Odes exemplar might have been a
                                    female, I suppose that is possible, though I have no idea how the
                                    proposition might be supported or refuted.

                                    Since you mention the question of authorship, I presume you might actually
                                    be referring to some other work that has the word "odes" in the title.
                                    Perhaps you were wondering about the authorship of the work known as the
                                    Odes of Solomon? But, as I mentioned, that work is of a much different
                                    character than the Biblical Odes, and questions about its authorship are
                                    more appropriate.

                                    James

                                    On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Barry nebarry@... [LXX] wrote:

                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > On a Facebook club (which actually has a number of quite reputable people participating), someone advanced the argument that the Odes had to be written
                                    > by a woman, and intimated that there was something about the style that proved the assertion. Now, I recognize corn flakes when I see them, and I've
                                    > been doing ancient languages for a long time, and have always thought style was gender neutral... :) But do you know of anything which might actually
                                    > support the claim? Ancient female authors are rare, but they did exist (Sappho comes to mind).
                                    >
                                    > N.E. Barry Hofstetter
                                    > Sent from my iPad
                                    > Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution with which I may be affiliated
                                    >
                                    > > On Jun 27, 2014, at 11:42 AM, "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > It's hard to say whether there's anything older because of the fragmentary
                                    > > nature of so much of the early biblical material. If you have a 3rd
                                    > > century scrap of parchment that contains, for example, Deut 32, is that a
                                    > > witness to the Biblical Odes collection or to a biblical manuscript?
                                    > > Absent other material from the same manuscript or other clear indicators,
                                    > > there's no way to tell. My research did indicate to me, however, that the
                                    > > assumption scholars are likely to make is that this would be witness to a
                                    > > biblical, rather than to a Biblical Odes, manuscript.
                                    > >
                                    > > Liturgical material seems quite off the radar for biblical scholars, even
                                    > > when that material contains biblical excerpts. My dissertation, for
                                    > > example, found that the Odes collection in Alexandrinus witnesses to 5th
                                    > > century readings that biblical scholars had never, up to that point,
                                    > > consulted. The presumption seems to have been that the text of the
                                    > > biblical books in Codex A would have been used for copying out the
                                    > > excerpts found in the Biblical Odes section of that manuscript; but my
                                    > > research indicated that those excerpts had more likely come from a
                                    > > pre-existing Biblical Odes manuscript with its own separate manuscript
                                    > > tradition.
                                    > >
                                    > > Indications can be found in the writings of some ancient authors such as
                                    > > Origen and Melito that such biblical odes were being used in worship
                                    > > during their era, if that's what you mean by "testimony." The evidence is
                                    > > not unequivocal, but past researchers have inferred from it that the
                                    > > liturgical tradition stretches into the earliest decades of Christianity.
                                    > > The practice has also been seen as contiguous with certain pre-Christian,
                                    > > Jewish worship customs. But that veers a bit away from this list's
                                    > > concerns; if you'd like a more detailed summary, have a look at my
                                    > > dissertation.
                                    > >
                                    > > James
                                    > >
                                    > >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Thank you for your kind answer. I would like to know if there are other testimonies, older than Codex A & Pelagius (at the end of the 4th century).
                                    > >>
                                    > >> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:48:01 -0500 (CDT)
                                    > >> "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>> If you're wanting something in English you might have a look at my
                                    > >>> dissertation (defended in 2006, Marquette University) on the Biblical Odes
                                    > >>> in the Codex Alexandrinus--which contains the earliest manuscript witness
                                    > >>> to the collection. My main sources, apart from the manuscript itself, were
                                    > >>> Heinrich Schneider's monograph (in German), divided into a series of
                                    > >>> articles published in the mid-twentieth century, and a few more recent
                                    > >>> articles by Sysse Gudrung Engberg. So far as I know, my dissertation is
                                    > >>> the most extensive study in English.
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> James
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>> On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, Filotheu Monahul filotheu@... [LXX] wrote:
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>> Dear all,
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>> I need a very extensive study on the Book of Odes. The introduction of Swete is very scarce in informations on manuscripts and patristic
                                    > testimonies.
                                    > >>>> Do you know any better study dedicated to this book?
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>> Thanks.
                                    > >>>> Monk Filotheus
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>> ---
                                    > >>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                    > >>>> http://www.avast.com
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> --
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> ---
                                    > >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
                                    > >> http://www.avast.com
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> ------------------------------------
                                    > >>
                                    > >> ------------------------------------
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> ------------------------------------
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Yahoo Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
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                                  • Barry
                                    Yes, I was thinking of the Odes of Solomon. Thanks for clarifying. N.E. Barry Hofstetter Sent from my iPad Personal opinions expressed in this email do not
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 27, 2014
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                                      Yes, I was thinking of the Odes of Solomon. Thanks for clarifying.

                                      N.E. Barry Hofstetter
                                      Sent from my iPad
                                      Personal opinions expressed in this email do not reflect any institution with which I may be affiliated

                                      On Jun 27, 2014, at 1:28 PM, "James Miller gajs-f0el@... [LXX]" <LXX@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                       

                                      Like many other biblical scholars, I think you might be under a
                                      misimpression about what the Biblical Odes are, Barry. To reiterate, they
                                      are excerpts from biblical and/or deuterocanonical books that were used in
                                      Christian worship--perhaps hymnically--the excerpts being gathered
                                      together into a sort of little "hymnal." An example of one of the Biblical
                                      Odes would be chapter 32 of Deuteronomy, for example, or the Prayer of
                                      Manasseh. In later times, that "hymnal" is found appended to many Psalms
                                      manuscripts. So there is really no question about authorship with respect
                                      to the Biblical Odes--the author is, ultimately, the author of the book of
                                      Deuteronomy or the Prayer of Manasseh--though one might venture to ask who
                                      first selected or compiled these hymnic excerpts. If we're asking whether
                                      the copyist of one or another Biblical Odes exemplar might have been a
                                      female, I suppose that is possible, though I have no idea how the
                                      proposition might be supported or refuted.

                                      Since you mention the question of authorship, I presume you might actually
                                      be referring to some other work that has the word "odes" in the title.
                                      Perhaps you were wondering about the authorship of the work known as the
                                      Odes of Solomon? But, as I mentioned, that work is of a much different
                                      character than the Biblical Odes, and questions about its authorship are
                                      more appropriate.


                                    • Abram Kielsmeier-Jones
                                      Prof. Kraft--I have seen the other Göttingen intros translated into English on your site (by J.W. Wevers). Do you (or any others) know of a translation into
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 29, 2014
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                                        Prof. Kraft--I have seen the other Göttingen intros translated into English on your site (by J.W. Wevers). Do you (or any others) know of a translation into English of the introduction to the Psalms/Odes Göttingen edition?

                                        I'm fascinated with the Odes, and they're among my favorite LXX texts to read, largely because of their familiarity to me. Thanks for this thread.

                                        Best,
                                        Abram Kielsmeier-Jones
                                         
                                      • James
                                        Hello; If n yer fascinated with the Odes maybe you might like the piece called Ode to Joy a real nice piece of music written by Ludvig von Beethoven... I
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jun 29, 2014
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                                          Hello;

                                          If'n yer fascinated with the Odes maybe you might like the piece called
                                          "Ode to Joy" a real nice piece of music written by Ludvig von
                                          Beethoven... I think. Or maybe it was Left wig on Brickoven... lol.
                                          Speaking of these great composers there was also... let's see...

                                          Franz Josef Hyden... who was hidin' so they couldn't find him.
                                          Johann Sebastian tried but failed so he went Bach while George Fredrick
                                          just couldn't Handel it.
                                          Not to mention Bela Bartop and Demitri Shuts-the-stove-off!

                                          I know.... don't quit my day job! :-)

                                          James
                                          .
                                          On 6/29/2014 9:31 PM, Abram Kielsmeier-Jones
                                          abramkielsmeierjones@... [LXX] wrote:
                                          > Prof. Kraft--I have seen the other Göttingen intros translated into
                                          > English on your site (by J.W. Wevers). Do you (or any others) know of
                                          > a translation into English of the introduction to the Psalms/Odes
                                          > Göttingen edition?
                                          >
                                          > I'm fascinated with the Odes, and they're among my favorite LXX texts
                                          > to read, largely because of their familiarity to me. Thanks for this
                                          > thread.
                                          >
                                          > Best,
                                          > Abram Kielsmeier-Jones
                                          >

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