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LXX translation techniques or investigation into differences between the LXX and MT or proto-LXX and proto-MT.

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  • Philip Engmann
    Dear Listees, I wish to do a PhD in LXX translation techniques or investigation into differences between the LXX and MT or proto-LXX and proto-MT. I know
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 1, 2002
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      Dear Listees,

      I wish to do a PhD in LXX translation techniques or investigation into differences between the LXX and MT or proto-LXX and proto-MT.

      I know generally which area I wish to do it in, but are there any more specific suggestions?

      I am at the tail end of my MPhil Thesis which was a COMPARISON OF SELECTED LXX and MT VERSES where there were differences (between LXX and MT).

       



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    • kv.baker1
      Dear Philip, L.C.Allen s work The Greek Chronicles: The Relation of the Septuagint of 1 and 2 Chronicles to the Massoretic Text would provide a very thorough
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Dear Philip,
        L.C.Allen's work The Greek Chronicles: The Relation of the Septuagint of 1 and 2 Chronicles to the Massoretic Text would provide a very thorough base for the kind of work that you are proposing. It has often occurred to me that his (excellent) study could do with some updating. No one has developed his thesis since 1974, I think (??).
        Dr Ken Baker
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:04 PM
        Subject: [lxx] LXX translation techniques or investigation into differences between the LXX and MT or proto-LXX and proto-MT.

        Dear Listees,

        I wish to do a PhD in LXX translation techniques or investigation into differences between the LXX and MT or proto-LXX and proto-MT.

        I know generally which area I wish to do it in, but are there any more specific suggestions?

        I am at the tail end of my MPhil Thesis which was a COMPARISON OF SELECTED LXX and MT VERSES where there were differences (between LXX and MT).

         



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      • Michael Jay
        This is interesting to me also... My language as a student was Greek -- and I ve started comparing the LXX to the MT in order to learn Hebrew (I ve now made a
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 2, 2002
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          This is interesting to me also... My language as a student was
          Greek -- and I've started comparing the LXX to the MT in order to
          learn Hebrew (I've now made a translation of almost half of Genesis,
          with notes on differences and questions of whether the differences
          were real, or a standard idiom of translation. (such as Enoch
          pleased God (greek) and Enoch walked with God (hebrew.) I also
          thought this would be a potential area of Ph.D. work; unfortunately
          I'm still deep in language study and I've no solid proposal yet.

          The most remarkable difference that I've found so far is the
          difference in the years of life and of the birth children in the
          lists -- both from Adam to Noe/ Noach, and from Noe to Abram. I
          understand the the Samaritian text is different from both. If the
          source materials could be found, this would be an interesting project.

          I think it would be interesting to identify which areas, where the
          translation to English would be different represent a different
          textform, and which ones represent the translation of a standard
          idiom (such as <name> walked with God all his days (hebrew) and
          <Name> pleased God all his days... (Or even the use of the dual
          Shamayim (heavens) while the Greek uses the singular Uranus. (heaven)

          Michael Jay



          >
          > I wish to do a PhD in LXX translation techniques or investigation
          into differences between the LXX and MT or proto-LXX and proto-MT.
          >
          > I know generally which area I wish to do it in, but are there any
          more specific suggestions?
          >
          > I am at the tail end of my MPhil Thesis which was a COMPARISON OF
          SELECTED LXX and MT VERSES where there were differences (between LXX
          and MT).
        • Schmuel
          Shalom LXX Michael Jay ... This is discussed on a number of papers, fairly well represented on the Web.. Now I think the Doorway Papers, by Arthur Custance was
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2002
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            Shalom LXX

            Michael Jay
            >The most remarkable difference that I've found so far is the
            >difference in the years of life and of the birth children in the
            >lists -- both from Adam to Noe/ Noach, and from Noe to Abram. I
            >understand the the Samaritian text is different from both. If the
            >source materials could be found, this would be an interesting project.

            This is discussed on a number of papers, fairly well represented on the Web..

            Now I think the Doorway Papers, by Arthur Custance was one of the ones
            that I liked the most... many are on the Web, so it shouldn't be too hard
            to find...... I could check around for some of the other better
            discussions, too

            Shalom,
            Steven Avery
            Bayside, NY


            Schmuel@...

            Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
          • Michael Jay <jaymichael@hotmail.com>
            I had read comments on this back a couple hundred years -- I did not find it in the Church Father s, (yet) but I ve not found anything on the web I couldn t
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 12, 2002
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              I had read comments on this back a couple hundred years -- I did not
              find it in the Church Father's, (yet) but I've not found anything on
              the web I couldn't find in Clarke's commentary. (A nice detailed
              article pointing out what the difference is, and how they accumulate
              to make for very different dates -- with a table or graph.) I also
              made one of my own limited to LXX and MT.

              By source material, I mean the things I would need to use to prepare
              an ecclectic text, and to argue which reading was most authritative.
              I only have the MT (both electronic and in print), two different
              electronic LXX textforms, Brenton's LXX in print, and the Vulgate.

              I do not know where to find a copy of the Samaritain Torah, a copy of
              the Syric translation (which I've read was an early Christian
              translation from the Hebrew) (and I don't read Syric.) I do not know
              what I would learn from the Dead Sea Scrolls, nor where to find a
              list of well cited Dead Sea variations, along whith the material I
              needed to judge the meaning of the fragment numbers.

              I would like to know what Origen thought of this (I guess that he
              supported the LXX reading, but it would be nice to know how.)


              Of course all the source material I speak of would be helpful for the
              current location of my study (Genesis 20) as well, as there are some
              textural issues here as well. (forcing me to attempt to translate
              Greek into Hebrew.)

              Michael
            • Schmuel
              Hi lxx, Michael ... Schmuel I had found a few good articles, I believe Arthur Custance of the Doorway Papers did an excellent one on the Genesis chronologies.
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 12, 2002
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                Hi lxx,

                Michael
                >I've not found anything on the web I couldn't find in Clarke's commentary.
                >(A nice detailed
                >article pointing out what the difference is, and how they accumulate
                >to make for very different dates -- with a table or graph.) I also
                >made one of my own limited to LXX and MT.

                Schmuel
                I had found a few good articles, I believe Arthur Custance of the
                Doorway Papers did an excellent one on the Genesis chronologies.

                And Leslie McFall on the textcrit forum may have a paper on this
                as well, although unpublished :-)

                Shalom,
                Schmuel

                Schmuel@...

                Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
              • Joel Kalvesmaki
                Dear all, ... I m sorry if this is more tantalizing than informative, but I recall reading a study (was it in the Harvard Theological Review?), from the 80 s,
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 12, 2002
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                  Dear all,

                  > I had read comments on this back a couple hundred years -- I did not
                  > find it in the Church Father's, (yet) but I've not found anything on
                  > the web I couldn't find in Clarke's commentary. (A nice detailed

                  I'm sorry if this is more tantalizing than informative, but I recall reading
                  a study (was it in the Harvard Theological Review?), from the 80's, I think,
                  presenting a strong case for how the LXX, the MT, and the Samaritan text's
                  version of the pre-Noahic genealogies depend on each other. Note, all three
                  versions diverge from each other. If I recall correctly, the author
                  suggested that no priority should be ascribed to any single text for an
                  "Ur-genealogy." Each version has reflects a change from the autograph.

                  I've lost this reference in my files, but I know that I passed it on to
                  James Miller a couple of years back. Maybe he still has that reference.

                  Best wishes,

                  jk
                  untitledJoel Kalvesmaki 16kalvesmaki@...
                  http://students.cua.edu/16kalvesmaki/ Graduate Student, Early Christian
                  Studies Catholic University of America Washington, DC
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