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Re: The Preposition ek Provides Emphasis? LXX Dt 32:43 in synch

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  • MJ
    Andrew, what has any of this got to do with the question of whether or not the prefix ek adds emphasis to verb?
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 16, 2013
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      Andrew, what has any of this got to do with the question of whether or not the prefix 'ek' adds emphasis to verb?

      --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, andrew fincke wrote:
      >
      >
      > Dear Philip,
      > The key to the verse is "and will render vengeance to his adversaries" i.e. the underlined part of
      > "Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people."
      > LXX doubles several of the clauses, and one of these conflations omits the personal pronoun to get "... because the blood of his sons is avenged and he will avenge, and he will repay justice to enemies and to haters he will repay...." The double omission of the pronoun "his," which tacked onto a Hebrew plural noun is yod+vav (éå), forces the reader to take a second look at the word and see in éå the letter kuf (÷). That changes "to his adversaries" (ìöøéå) to "to righteousness" (ìöã÷) and corrects a verse, the Hebrew of which impossibly pictures the Lord cleansing the earth of its inhabitants to assuage the offended sensibilities of the angels. King James/Hebrew: "and will render vengeance to his adversaries" becomes in the LXX doublet "and will repay justice with righteousness." LXX offers hope for the inhabitants of the earth - at any rate for thos doing righteousness, who will be treated justly. Note that the word "justice is absent from the Hebrew/King James. For an agglutination (is that the right word, Bob?) of "justice" and "righteousness" in the context of legal proceedings see Psalm 9:5. For Emanuel Tov's edition of the Qumran fragment (4QDeut-q) with a version of Deut. 32:43 similar to LXX see DJD (Discoveries in the Judaean Desert) XIV, pp. 138-142.
      > Andrew Fincke
      >
      >
      >
      > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
      > From: philipengmann@...
      > Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:51:43 -0800
      > Subject: Re: [lxx] The Preposition ek Provides Emphasis? LXX Dt 32:43 in synch
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Listees,
      >
      > since there seems to be complete silence as answer to my issue, (although I have raised it twice) can I raise another one.
      >
      > I propose, albeit briefly here that LXX Deut 32:43 is poetically in sync with the preceding part of the poem (Deut 32:1-42), (as opposed to MT Deut 32:43, which is poetically out of sync with the rest of the poem.
      >
      > Please does anyone have any comments on this issue?
      >
      > Many thanks,
      >
      > Philip Engmann
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Philip philipengmann@...>
      > To: "lxx@yahoogroups.com" lxx@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:08 PM
      > Subject: Re: [lxx] The Preposition ek Provides Emphasis?
      >
      > Dear Listees,
      >
      > please could I be permitted to repeat my question since I don't seem to have had any responses at all to the first part?
      >
      > Season's greetings.
      >
      > Philip Engmann
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Philip philipengmann@...>
      > To: "lxx@yahoogroups.com" lxx@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:28 AM
      > Subject: [lxx] The Preposition ek Provides Emphasis?
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Listees, The preposition ek precedes three verbs in LXX Dt 32:43. ekdikatai,ekdikhsei, andekkaqariei. Does this preposition ek provide emphasis to these verbs? Deuteronomy 32:43, LXX[1] eufranqhte, ouranoi, ama autw, kai proskunhsatwsan autw panteV aggeloi[2]qeou; eufranqhte eqnh meta tou laou autou, kai eniscusatwsan autw panteV uioi[3]qeou, oti to aima twn uiwn[4] autou ekdikatai; kai ekdikhsei; kai antapodwsei dikhn toiV ecqroiV, kai toiV misousin antapodwsei; kai ekkaqariei kurioV thn ghn tou laou autou. Also, I would be grateful if someone could help me with the audio reading/pronunciation of the entire verse. Many thanks, Philip Engmann ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • MJ
      I can only speculate concerning the motives of other members of the group for not responding. My own motive is that I rather doubt that it does provide
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 16, 2013
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        I can only speculate concerning the motives of other members of the group for not responding. My own motive is that I rather doubt that it does "provide emphasis", but I don't feel strongly enough about it to do the 'homework' to come up with evidence one way or the other.

        What I do know is that at diverse periods of the long history of the Greek language, often 'ek' has droppped the original force of the preposition, and became a way of expressing aspect rather than tense. I remember a note, for example, in The Cambride Greek and Latin Classics edition of Oedipus Rex that this use was common in Sophocles.

        Of course, Sophocles wrote in a very different kind of Greek than the LXX translators. But it seems even more likely to me to be the case in the LXX period, since Browning claims that the Hellenistic period was precisely when aspect became more important than before.

        Even in this passage, it makes perfect sense to me that 'ek' simply expresses a perfective aspect, no other kind of 'emphasis' at all. But if you feel otherwise, I would suggest you pick a few 'ek' prefixed verbs at random and compare their definitions with and without the prefix between the lemmas in Liddell and Scott vs. those in an LXX Greek lexicon, and/or look at evidence for such emphasis in Hatch and Redpath.

        --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, Philip wrote:
        >
        > Dear Listees,
        >  
        > since there seems to be complete silence as answer to my issue, (although I have raised it twice) can I raise another one.
        >  
        > I propose, albeit briefly here that LXX Deut 32:43 is poetically in sync with the preceding part of the poem (Deut 32:1-42), (as opposed to MT Deut 32:43, which is poetically out of sync  with the rest of the poem.
        >  
        > Please does anyone have any comments on this issue?
        >  
        > Many thanks,
        >  
        > Philip Engmann
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Philip
        > To: "lxx@yahoogroups.com"
        > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:08 PM
        > Subject: Re: [lxx] The Preposition ek Provides Emphasis?
        >
        > Dear Listees,
        >  
        > please could I be permitted to repeat my question since I don't seem to have had any responses at all to the first part?
        >  
        > Season's greetings.
        >  
        > Philip Engmann
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Philip
        > To: "lxx@yahoogroups.com"
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:28 AM
        > Subject: [lxx] The Preposition ek Provides Emphasis?
        >
        >  
        >
        > Dear Listees, The preposition ek precedes three verbs in LXX Dt 32:43. ekdikatai,ekdikhsei, andekkaqariei. Does this preposition ek provide emphasis to these verbs? Deuteronomy 32:43, LXX[1] eufranqhte, ouranoi, ama autw, kai proskunhsatwsan autw panteV aggeloi[2]qeou; eufranqhte eqnh meta tou laou autou, kai eniscusatwsan autw panteV uioi[3]qeou, oti to aima twn uiwn[4] autou ekdikatai; kai ekdikhsei; kai antapodwsei dikhn toiV ecqroiV, kai toiV misousin antapodwsei; kai ekkaqariei kurioV thn ghn tou laou autou.   Also, I would be grateful if someone could help me with the audio reading/pronunciation of the entire verse.   Many thanks,   Philip Engmann   ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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