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Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees

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  • mikek
    Dear folks, I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 29, 2012
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      Dear folks,

      I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.

      What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?

      Tks

      Kindly,

      Mike Karoules
    • Ken Penner
      1 Maccabees is a translation from Hebrew. 2 Maccabees is originally Greek. Ken Ken M. Penner, Ph.D. Assistant Professor, Religious Studies Nicholson Tower 409
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 29, 2012
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        1 Maccabees is a translation from Hebrew. 2 Maccabees is originally Greek.
        Ken

        Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
        Assistant Professor, Religious Studies
        Nicholson Tower 409
        St. Francis Xavier University
        Antigonish, NS B2G 2W5
        Canada
        (902)867-2265
        kpenner@...



        From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mikek
        Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:07 PM
        To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees



        Dear folks,

        I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.

        What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?

        Tks

        Kindly,

        Mike Karoules



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • andrew fincke
        Dear Mike, Swete, Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek, 276 ff. says: 1 Maccabees. The book seems to have been known to Josephus (Antiquities XII,
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 29, 2012
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          Dear Mike,
          Swete, Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek, 276 ff. says:

          1 Maccabees. The book seems to have been known to Josephus (Antiquities XII, 265-267): “Now at this time there was one whose name was Mattathias, who dwelt at Modin, the son of John, the son of Simeon, the son of Asamoneus, a priest of the order of Joarib, and a citizen of Jerusalem./ He had five sons: John, who was called Gaddis, and Simon, who was called Matthias, and Judas, who was called Maccabeus, and Eleazar, who was called Auran, and Jonathan, who was called Apphus./ Now this Mattathias lamented to his children the sad state of their affairs, and the ravage made in the city, and the plundering of the temple, and the calamities the multitude were under; and he told them that it was better for them to die for the laws of their country, than to live so ingloriously as they then did”) but it is doubtful whether he was acquainted with its Greek form. 1 Macc. was undoubtedly known to the Christian school of Alexandria; cf. Clem. Alex. strom. I,123: τὸ τῶν Μακκαβαϊκῶν, Origen ap. Eus. l.c. τὰ Μακκαβαϊκὰ ἅπερ ἐπιγέγραπται Σαρβὴθ σαβαναιέλ (v.l. Σ. σαβανὲ ἔλ). Whatever may be the meaning of this title, it is clearly Semitic, and may be taken as evidence that the book was circulated in a Semitic original. Jerome appears to have seen a copy of this Hebrew or Aramaic text (prol. gal. “Maccabaeorum primum librum Hebraicum repperi”)…. The Latin and Syriac visions are based upon the Greek….. 2 Macc. ….The style is extremely uneven; at times it is elaborately ornate (3:15-39, 5:20, 6:12-16,23-28, 7: passim); and again it so rude and broken as to seem more like notes for an epitome than a finished composition (13:19-26). That the work never had a Semitic original was apparent to Jerome (prol. gal. “secumdus Graecus est, quod ex ipsa quoque φράσει probari potest”). The vocabulary is extraordinarily rich in words of the later literary Greek, and the book betrays scarcely any disposition to Hebraise.

          It’s pretty clear to what Origen’s subtitle Σαρβὴθ σαβαναιέλ (sar beyth sabanieyl) refers. Σαρ (sar) is Hebrew שָׂר (sar) “prince,” Βηθ (beyth) is Hebrew בֵּית (beyth) “house of,” σαβ (sab) abbreviates Hebrew שֶׁבַע (sheva) “seven,” αν (an) transcribes אנ (an) that abbreviates אֲנָשִׁים (anashim) “men,” and αριελ (arieyl) is from 2 Samuel 23:20: καὶ αὐτὸς ἐπάταξεν τοὺς δύο υἱοὺς Αριηλ (arieyl) τοῦ Μωαβ “he slew two lionlike men of Moab.” (Note that υἱοὺς “sons” is not in the Hebrew text!) Origen explained the title of the Maccabean corpus with: “The book of Maccabees is named after the prince of the house of the seven lionlike men.” The "prince" was Judas, who was called Maccabeus" (see above the Josephus citation). That's the beginning of Maccabees, since Judas' story is the theme of 1. Maccabees. The seven were Shamoni’s seven sons, whose suffering for the faith is the theme of Fourth Maccabees. That's the end of the Maccabean corpus. Whether Origen’s Hebrew subtitle means that a Hebrew original existed is moot. Jerome’s statement cited above: “A Hebrew First Maccabees exists” supports Swete’s allegation that there was such a work.

          Andrew Fincke





          To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
          From: steelcurtain40@...
          Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:07:07 +0000
          Subject: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees





          Dear folks,

          I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.

          What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?

          Tks

          Kindly,

          Mike Karoules






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Abram Kielsmeier-Jones
          The New English Translation of the Septuagint has some information about 1 Maccabees being translated from Hebrew, as well, even though we don t have access to
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 30, 2012
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            The New English Translation of the Septuagint has some information about 1 Maccabees being translated from Hebrew, as well, even though we don't have access to any traces of the Hebrew text(s) it translated.  There is a pdf file of 1 Maccabees with intro in NETS here.

            I'm curious what introduction you were reading that said 1 Maccabees was written in Greek?

            Peace,
            Abram K-J


            ________________________________
            From: andrew fincke <finckea@...>
            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:48 PM
            Subject: RE: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees


             

            Dear Mike,
            Swete, Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek, 276 ff. says:

            1 Maccabees. The book seems to have been known to Josephus (Antiquities XII, 265-267): “Now at this time there was one whose name was Mattathias, who dwelt at Modin, the son of John, the son of Simeon, the son of Asamoneus, a priest of the order of Joarib, and a citizen of Jerusalem./ He had five sons: John, who was called Gaddis, and Simon, who was called Matthias, and Judas, who was called Maccabeus, and Eleazar, who was called Auran, and Jonathan, who was called Apphus./ Now this Mattathias lamented to his children the sad state of their affairs, and the ravage made in the city, and the plundering of the temple, and the calamities the multitude were under; and he told them that it was better for them to die for the laws of their country, than to live so ingloriously as they then did”) but it is doubtful whether he was acquainted with its Greek form. 1 Macc. was undoubtedly known to the Christian school of Alexandria; cf. Clem. Alex. strom.
            I,123: τὸ τῶν Μακκαβαϊκῶν, Origen ap. Eus. l.c. τὰ Μακκαβαϊκὰ ἅπερ ἐπιγέγραπται Σαρβὴθ σαβαναιέλ (v.l. Σ. σαβανὲ ἔλ). Whatever may be the meaning of this title, it is clearly Semitic, and may be taken as evidence that the book was circulated in a Semitic original. Jerome appears to have seen a copy of this Hebrew or Aramaic text (prol. gal. “Maccabaeorum primum librum Hebraicum repperi”)…. The Latin and Syriac visions are based upon the Greek….. 2 Macc. ….The style is extremely uneven; at times it is elaborately ornate (3:15-39, 5:20, 6:12-16,23-28, 7: passim); and again it so rude and broken as to seem more like notes for an epitome than a finished composition (13:19-26). That the work never had a Semitic original was apparent to Jerome (prol. gal. “secumdus Graecus est, quod ex ipsa quoque φράσει probari potest”). The vocabulary is
            extraordinarily rich in words of the later literary Greek, and the book betrays scarcely any disposition to Hebraise.

            It’s pretty clear to what Origen’s subtitle Σαρβὴθ σαβαναιέλ (sar beyth sabanieyl) refers. Σαρ (sar) is Hebrew שָׂר (sar) “prince,” Βηθ (beyth) is Hebrew בֵּית (beyth) “house of,” σαβ (sab) abbreviates Hebrew שֶׁבַע (sheva) “seven,” αν (an) transcribes אנ (an) that abbreviates אֲנָשִׁים (anashim) “men,” and αριελ (arieyl) is from 2 Samuel 23:20: καὶ αὐτὸς ἐπάταξεν τοὺς δύο υἱοὺς Αριηλ (arieyl) τοῦ Μωαβ “he slew two lionlike men of Moab.” (Note that υἱοὺς “sons” is not in the Hebrew text!) Origen explained the title of the Maccabean corpus with: “The book of Maccabees is named after the prince of the house of the seven lionlike men.” The "prince" was Judas, who was called Maccabeus" (see above the Josephus citation). That's the beginning of Maccabees, since Judas' story is the theme of 1. Maccabees. The
            seven were Shamoni’s seven sons, whose suffering for the faith is the theme of Fourth Maccabees. That's the end of the Maccabean corpus. Whether Origen’s Hebrew subtitle means that a Hebrew original existed is moot. Jerome’s statement cited above: “A Hebrew First Maccabees exists” supports Swete’s allegation that there was such a work.

            Andrew Fincke





            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            From: steelcurtain40@...
            Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:07:07 +0000
            Subject: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees





            Dear folks,

            I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.

            What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?

            Tks

            Kindly,

            Mike Karoules






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Abram Kielsmeier-Jones
            Not sure why the link didn t go through in my last email.  Here is the url to the NETS pdf: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/20-1makk-nets.pdf
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 30, 2012
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              Not sure why the link didn't go through in my last email.  Here is the url to the NETS pdf:

              http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/20-1makk-nets.pdf




              ________________________________
              From: Abram Kielsmeier-Jones <abramkielsmeierjones@...>
              To: "lxx@yahoogroups.com" <lxx@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:52 PM
              Subject: Re: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees


               
              The New English Translation of the Septuagint has some information about 1 Maccabees being translated from Hebrew, as well, even though we don't have access to any traces of the Hebrew text(s) it translated.  There is a pdf file of 1 Maccabees with intro in NETS here.

              I'm curious what introduction you were reading that said 1 Maccabees was written in Greek?

              Peace,
              Abram K-J

              ________________________________
              From: andrew fincke <finckea@...>
              To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:48 PM
              Subject: RE: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees


               

              Dear Mike,
              Swete, Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek, 276 ff. says:

              1 Maccabees. The book seems to have been known to Josephus (Antiquities XII, 265-267): “Now at this time there was one whose name was Mattathias, who dwelt at Modin, the son of John, the son of Simeon, the son of Asamoneus, a priest of the order of Joarib, and a citizen of Jerusalem./ He had five sons: John, who was called Gaddis, and Simon, who was called Matthias, and Judas, who was called Maccabeus, and Eleazar, who was called Auran, and Jonathan, who was called Apphus./ Now this Mattathias lamented to his children the sad state of their affairs, and the ravage made in the city, and the plundering of the temple, and the calamities the multitude were under; and he told them that it was better for them to die for the laws of their country, than to live so ingloriously as they then did”) but it is doubtful whether he was acquainted with its Greek form. 1 Macc. was undoubtedly known to the Christian school of Alexandria; cf. Clem. Alex. strom.
              I,123: τὸ τῶν Μακκαβαϊκῶν, Origen ap. Eus. l.c. τὰ Μακκαβαϊκὰ ἅπερ ἐπιγέγραπται Σαρβὴθ σαβαναιέλ (v.l. Σ. σαβανὲ ἔλ). Whatever may be the meaning of this title, it is clearly Semitic, and may be taken as evidence that the book was circulated in a Semitic original. Jerome appears to have seen a copy of this Hebrew or Aramaic text (prol. gal. “Maccabaeorum primum librum Hebraicum repperi”)…. The Latin and Syriac visions are based upon the Greek….. 2 Macc. ….The style is extremely uneven; at times it is elaborately ornate (3:15-39, 5:20, 6:12-16,23-28, 7: passim); and again it so rude and broken as to seem more like notes for an epitome than a finished composition (13:19-26). That the work never had a Semitic original was apparent to Jerome (prol. gal. “secumdus Graecus est, quod ex ipsa quoque φράσει probari potest”). The vocabulary is
              extraordinarily rich in words of the later literary Greek, and the book betrays scarcely any disposition to Hebraise.

              It’s pretty clear to what Origen’s subtitle Σαρβὴθ σαβαναιέλ (sar beyth sabanieyl) refers. Σαρ (sar) is Hebrew שָׂר (sar) “prince,” Βηθ (beyth) is Hebrew בֵּית (beyth) “house of,” σαβ (sab) abbreviates Hebrew שֶׁבַע (sheva) “seven,” αν (an) transcribes אנ (an) that abbreviates אֲנָשִׁים (anashim) “men,” and αριελ (arieyl) is from 2 Samuel 23:20: καὶ αὐτὸς ἐπάταξεν τοὺς δύο υἱοὺς Αριηλ (arieyl) τοῦ Μωαβ “he slew two lionlike men of Moab.” (Note that υἱοὺς “sons” is not in the Hebrew text!) Origen explained the title of the Maccabean corpus with: “The book of Maccabees is named after the prince of the house of the seven lionlike men.” The "prince" was Judas, who was called Maccabeus" (see above the Josephus citation). That's the beginning of Maccabees, since Judas' story is the theme of 1. Maccabees. The
              seven were Shamoni’s seven sons, whose suffering for the faith is the theme of Fourth Maccabees. That's the end of the Maccabean corpus. Whether Origen’s Hebrew subtitle means that a Hebrew original existed is moot. Jerome’s statement cited above: “A Hebrew First Maccabees exists” supports Swete’s allegation that there was such a work.

              Andrew Fincke

              To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              From: steelcurtain40@...
              Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:07:07 +0000
              Subject: [lxx] Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees

              Dear folks,

              I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.

              What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?

              Tks

              Kindly,

              Mike Karoules

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Yomyom
              Dear folks, I consider myself another rookie about the Maccabees and i know that this group is about the Septuagint. But i heard something and i want that
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 30, 2012
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                Dear folks,

                I consider myself another rookie about the Maccabees and i know that this group is about the Septuagint. But i heard something and i want that someone else explain more to me:

                a) There is a hebrew manuscript of 1 Maccabees published at the end of XIX century but in that time an expert said that manuscript was a retranslation from the Vulgata Latina. I heard this from James Scott Trimm. Can somebody knows and explain more about that manuscript? I could not find that publication of the XIX century.

                b) There is a "Liber V Macchabeorum", and this 5 Maccabees was preserved in arabic language and tells about the wars of the jews in the Ptolomaic Egypt especially in the Elephantine Island or something like that. But i can not find more about this, i heard this about 10 or 15 years ago. Somebody knows more about 5 Maccabees? and know where can i find a book publication or issuance of "Liber V Macchabeorum"? even the arabic manuscript publication or a modern translation? because i could not find anything about this.

                Alberto Olivares
                México city, D.F.
                México


                --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "mikek" <steelcurtain40@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear folks,
                >
                > I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.
                >
                > What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?
                >
                > Tks
                >
                > Kindly,
                >
                > Mike Karoules
                >
              • Ken Penner
                Lorenzo DiTommaso provides the following bibliography on 5 Maccabees: * On 5 Maccabees, extant in Arabic, see: Beurlier, E. Machabées (Livres apocrypes
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 30, 2012
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                  Lorenzo DiTommaso provides the following bibliography on 5 Maccabees:
                  * On 5 Maccabees, extant in Arabic, see:
                  Beurlier, E. "Machabées (Livres apocrypes des)." Dictionnaire de la Bible. 5 vols. Paris, 1895-1912. 4, col. 502.
                  Bissell, E.C. "The Fifth Book of the Maccabees." The Apocrypha of the Old Testament. With Historical Introductions, a Revised Translation, and Notes Critical and Introductory. New York, 1880. 638-640.
                  Bundy, D. "Pseudepigrapha in Syriac Literature." SBLSP 30. Ed. E.H. Lovering, Jr. Atlanta, 1991. 745-765 at 753.
                  Charlesworth, J.H. The Pseudepigrapha and Modern Research. SCS 7. Missoula, 1976. With a Supplement. SCS 7. Ann Arbor, 1981. 153-156, 296.
                  Cloward, R.A. The Old Testament Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha and the Dead Sea Scrolls: A Selected Bibliography of Text Editions and English Translations. Provo, 1988. 44.
                  Cotton, H. "The Fifth Book of Maccabees: Containing a Record of Events from the Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek under Ptolemy Philadelphus, (B.C. 277,) to the Death of Herod's Two Sons, in the Fifth or Sixth Year before Christ." The Five Books of the Maccabees in English. With Notes and Illustrations. Oxford, 1830. 277-446. [trans.]
                  Davidson, S. The Text of the Old Testament Considered; with a Treatise on Sacred Interpretation; and a Brief Introduction to the Old Testament Books and Apocrypha. London, 21859. 1055-1058 at 1055-1056.
                  Evans, C.A. Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation. Peabody, MA, 1992. 43-44.
                  Graf, A. Geschichte der christlichen arabischen Literatur. I. S&T 118. Città del Vaticano, 1944. 223
                  ---. Geschichte der christlichen arabischen Literatur. II. S&T 133. Città del Vaticano, 1947. 487.
                  Grudem, W. "Alphabetical Reference List for Old Testament Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha." JETS 19 (1976). 297-313 at 308-309.
                  Haelewyck, J.-C. Clavis apocryphorum Veteris Testamenti. Turnhout, 1998. No. 200. 156.
                  Stegmüller, F. Repertorium biblicum medii aevi. 8 vols., plus supplements. Madrid, 1950-. Nos. 103, 103.1-3.
                  Walton, B. Biblia sacra polyglotta. London, 1657. 4.112-159. [text, called Arabic 2 Maccabees]
                  Willrich, H. "Jasons Verhältnis zum III und IV Makkabäerbuch, zur Arabischen Makkabäergeschichte und Josippon." Judaica. Forschungen zur hellenistisch-jüdischen Geschichte und Litteratur. Göttingen, 1900. 163-176.

                  DiTommaso, Lorenzo. A Bibliography of Pseudepigrapha Research, 1850-1999. Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha 39. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 2001.

                  From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yomyom
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:35 PM
                  To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [lxx] Re: Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees



                  Dear folks,

                  I consider myself another rookie about the Maccabees and i know that this group is about the Septuagint. But i heard something and i want that someone else explain more to me:

                  a) There is a hebrew manuscript of 1 Maccabees published at the end of XIX century but in that time an expert said that manuscript was a retranslation from the Vulgata Latina. I heard this from James Scott Trimm. Can somebody knows and explain more about that manuscript? I could not find that publication of the XIX century.

                  b) There is a "Liber V Macchabeorum", and this 5 Maccabees was preserved in arabic language and tells about the wars of the jews in the Ptolomaic Egypt especially in the Elephantine Island or something like that. But i can not find more about this, i heard this about 10 or 15 years ago. Somebody knows more about 5 Maccabees? and know where can i find a book publication or issuance of "Liber V Macchabeorum"? even the arabic manuscript publication or a modern translation? because i could not find anything about this.

                  Alberto Olivares
                  México city, D.F.
                  México

                  --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:lxx%40yahoogroups.com>, "mikek" <steelcurtain40@...<mailto:steelcurtain40@...>> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear folks,
                  >
                  > I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.
                  >
                  > What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?
                  >
                  > Tks
                  >
                  > Kindly,
                  >
                  > Mike Karoules
                  >


                  ________________________________
                  SBLSP Society of Biblical Literature Seminar Papers.
                  SCS (Society of Biblical Literature) Septuagint and Cognate Studies.
                  SCS (Society of Biblical Literature) Septuagint and Cognate Studies.
                  trans. translation; translated by
                  S&T Studi e testi.
                  S&T Studi e testi.
                  JETS Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • andrew fincke
                  Dear Ken, Don t confuse the little Arabic piece from the Middle Ages with what Codex Ambrosianus of the Peshitta calls Fifth Maccabees! See Hans
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 31, 2012
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                    Dear Ken,

                    Don't confuse the little Arabic piece from the Middle Ages with what Codex Ambrosianus of the Peshitta calls "Fifth Maccabees!" See Hans Schreckenberg,
                    Rezeptionsgeschichte und kritische Untersuchungen zu Flavius Josephus, 7: �The
                    Syriac translation of the sixth book of Bellum Judaicum � appears with
                    the title �Fifth Maccabees� in Codex Ambrosianus of the Peshitta� viz. at pages
                    660-679 of Volume 3 of Ceriani�s edition of the manuscript (Milan, 1879). Wido van Peursen, �La diffusion des
                    manuscrits bibliques conserv�s: typologie, organisation, nombre et �poques de
                    copie� (online, I believe, or get by request from the author at the Leiden
                    Peshitta Institute), 9 says: �That a non Biblical book appears in a Biblical
                    manuscript is rare in Syriac, less so in Greek (see Kraft, �The Codex and Canon
                    Consciousness� in McDonald and Sanders, eds., The Canon Debate, Peabody,
                    2002, 232-233).� Strange is that Book 6
                    of Josephus� Wars of the Jews concludes the base text of the Leiden
                    Peshitta - Codex Ambrosianus -, where it follows 1-4 Maccabees. That it is more than just decoration proves the appended note: �Here ends
                    the Maccabeean corpus, which consists of five books.� The rhyming offshoot of Fourth Maccabees
                    published by Barnes and Bensly in 1895 also claims Josephan authorship (�Here
                    ends Josephus� sermon about Eleazar, Shmuni and her sons� in one codex, �Here
                    ends Josephus� essay about the Maccabees and Shmuni and her seven sons and
                    Eleazar, the priest� in the other). Sigrid
                    Peterson�s coined �Sixth Maccabees� for the poem is a bit misleading, contradicting as it does the testimony of Codex Ambrosianus. See her online dissertation,
                    �Martha Shamoni: A Jewish Syriac Poem,� University of Pennsylvania, 2006, 36.Andrew Fincke




                    To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                    From: kpenner@...
                    Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:16:49 -0300
                    Subject: RE: [lxx] Re: Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees


























                    Lorenzo DiTommaso provides the following bibliography on 5 Maccabees:

                    * On 5 Maccabees, extant in Arabic, see:

                    Beurlier, E. "Machab�es (Livres apocrypes des)." Dictionnaire de la Bible. 5 vols. Paris, 1895-1912. 4, col. 502.

                    Bissell, E.C. "The Fifth Book of the Maccabees." The Apocrypha of the Old Testament. With Historical Introductions, a Revised Translation, and Notes Critical and Introductory. New York, 1880. 638-640.

                    Bundy, D. "Pseudepigrapha in Syriac Literature." SBLSP 30. Ed. E.H. Lovering, Jr. Atlanta, 1991. 745-765 at 753.

                    Charlesworth, J.H. The Pseudepigrapha and Modern Research. SCS 7. Missoula, 1976. With a Supplement. SCS 7. Ann Arbor, 1981. 153-156, 296.

                    Cloward, R.A. The Old Testament Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha and the Dead Sea Scrolls: A Selected Bibliography of Text Editions and English Translations. Provo, 1988. 44.

                    Cotton, H. "The Fifth Book of Maccabees: Containing a Record of Events from the Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek under Ptolemy Philadelphus, (B.C. 277,) to the Death of Herod's Two Sons, in the Fifth or Sixth Year before Christ." The Five Books of the Maccabees in English. With Notes and Illustrations. Oxford, 1830. 277-446. [trans.]

                    Davidson, S. The Text of the Old Testament Considered; with a Treatise on Sacred Interpretation; and a Brief Introduction to the Old Testament Books and Apocrypha. London, 21859. 1055-1058 at 1055-1056.

                    Evans, C.A. Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation. Peabody, MA, 1992. 43-44.

                    Graf, A. Geschichte der christlichen arabischen Literatur. I. S&T 118. Citt� del Vaticano, 1944. 223

                    ---. Geschichte der christlichen arabischen Literatur. II. S&T 133. Citt� del Vaticano, 1947. 487.

                    Grudem, W. "Alphabetical Reference List for Old Testament Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha." JETS 19 (1976). 297-313 at 308-309.

                    Haelewyck, J.-C. Clavis apocryphorum Veteris Testamenti. Turnhout, 1998. No. 200. 156.

                    Stegm�ller, F. Repertorium biblicum medii aevi. 8 vols., plus supplements. Madrid, 1950-. Nos. 103, 103.1-3.

                    Walton, B. Biblia sacra polyglotta. London, 1657. 4.112-159. [text, called Arabic 2 Maccabees]

                    Willrich, H. "Jasons Verh�ltnis zum III und IV Makkab�erbuch, zur Arabischen Makkab�ergeschichte und Josippon." Judaica. Forschungen zur hellenistisch-j�dischen Geschichte und Litteratur. G�ttingen, 1900. 163-176.



                    DiTommaso, Lorenzo. A Bibliography of Pseudepigrapha Research, 1850-1999. Journal for the Study of the Pseudepigrapha 39. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 2001.



                    From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yomyom

                    Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:35 PM

                    To: lxx@yahoogroups.com

                    Subject: [lxx] Re: Concerning 1 and 2 Maccabees



                    Dear folks,



                    I consider myself another rookie about the Maccabees and i know that this group is about the Septuagint. But i heard something and i want that someone else explain more to me:



                    a) There is a hebrew manuscript of 1 Maccabees published at the end of XIX century but in that time an expert said that manuscript was a retranslation from the Vulgata Latina. I heard this from James Scott Trimm. Can somebody knows and explain more about that manuscript? I could not find that publication of the XIX century.



                    b) There is a "Liber V Macchabeorum", and this 5 Maccabees was preserved in arabic language and tells about the wars of the jews in the Ptolomaic Egypt especially in the Elephantine Island or something like that. But i can not find more about this, i heard this about 10 or 15 years ago. Somebody knows more about 5 Maccabees? and know where can i find a book publication or issuance of "Liber V Macchabeorum"? even the arabic manuscript publication or a modern translation? because i could not find anything about this.



                    Alberto Olivares

                    M�xico city, D.F.

                    M�xico



                    --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:lxx%40yahoogroups.com>, "mikek" <steelcurtain40@...<mailto:steelcurtain40@...>> wrote:

                    >

                    > Dear folks,

                    >

                    > I consider myself a rookie and young when it comes to LXX and Greek Septuagint issues but I was taking a brief glance on book of Maccabees this morning and the "intro" information that I read said that 1 and 2 maccabees was originally written in the Greek and that IT IS NOT a translation. More, that if the original book of Maccabees was written in Hebrew and then, after, translated into Greek then the Jewish leaders for the most part would have accepted into their canon.

                    >

                    > What pertinent information can you folks tell me about the books of Maccabees? The "theory" or "idea" of these books being originally written in the Greek pretty much, for the most part, without dispute?

                    >

                    > Tks

                    >

                    > Kindly,

                    >

                    > Mike Karoules

                    >



                    ________________________________

                    SBLSP Society of Biblical Literature Seminar Papers.

                    SCS (Society of Biblical Literature) Septuagint and Cognate Studies.

                    SCS (Society of Biblical Literature) Septuagint and Cognate Studies.

                    trans. translation; translated by

                    S&T Studi e testi.

                    S&T Studi e testi.

                    JETS Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society.



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