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Proverbs 24

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  • Tychon Pino
    Can someone explain to me the numbering of Proverbs 24 in the Apostoliki Diakonia/Zoe editions? Tikhon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2, 2011
      Can someone explain to me the numbering of Proverbs 24 in the Apostoliki
      Diakonia/Zoe editions?

      Tikhon


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mej1960
      I keep forgetting what the difference is between Apostoliki and Zoe texts, but in the Files section of this Yahoo! Group, you can find JPEG files of the
      Message 2 of 6 , May 3, 2011
        I keep forgetting what the difference is between Apostoliki and Zoe texts, but in the Files section of this Yahoo! Group, you can find JPEG files of the Prologues to the Apostoliki. It explains that they generally follow the punctuation and verse numbering of Tishcendorff.

        Now as for why Tischendorff's numbering differed so much from the MT, compare the verses yourself starting at Pro 24:8 (I assume you are referring to the difference from 24:7 to 24:10). The LXX text seems to have dropped one colon (most Proverbs verses consist of two cola), and introduced others, kept that offset for a few verses, and then synched back up a few verses later. There is no really good way to number verses under such circumstances.

        --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, Tychon Pino <93pino@...> wrote:
        >
        > Can someone explain to me the numbering of Proverbs 24 in the Apostoliki
        > Diakonia/Zoe editions?
        >
        > Tikhon
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Tychon Pino
        I am referring to verses 22 to the end. I see 24:1-22 (Mas. 28:27), followed by 22:22a-22g, and then I m confused. After (Mas. 30:1) 22:22e, the verses are
        Message 3 of 6 , May 4, 2011
          I am referring to verses 22 to the end. I see 24:1-22 (Mas. 28:27), followed
          by 22:22a-22g, and then I'm confused.

          After (Mas. 30:1) 22:22e, the verses are numbered 2-14. Are these simply the
          Masoretic numbers, because the next verse after 14 is (Mas. 24:23) with no
          other number, with the subsequent verses numbered 24-34. The next section
          gives (Mas. 30:15) by itself, with the following verses numbered 16-33. Then
          we see (Mas. 31:1) with the following verses given as 2-8.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kevin P. Edgecomb
          Tychon, Yes, the numbers refer to the numbering found in Hebrew Bibles, but the order is that of the Septuagint tradition. Proverbs is one of those books in
          Message 4 of 6 , May 4, 2011
            Tychon,
            Yes, the numbers refer to the numbering found in Hebrew Bibles, but the order is that of the Septuagint tradition. Proverbs is one of those books in which there is some large-scale displacement (Jeremiah is another) which is reflected in the translations in this very confusing way.

            I recommend the NETS introduction to Proverbs for you, which describes things in more detail:
            http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/

            Regards,
            Kevin Edgecomb
            Berkeley, California

            -----Original Message-----
            From: "Tychon Pino" <93pino@...>
            Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 11:28am
            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [lxx] Re: Proverbs 24

            I am referring to verses 22 to the end. I see 24:1-22 (Mas. 28:27), followed
            by 22:22a-22g, and then I'm confused.

            After (Mas. 30:1) 22:22e, the verses are numbered 2-14. Are these simply the
            Masoretic numbers, because the next verse after 14 is (Mas. 24:23) with no
            other number, with the subsequent verses numbered 24-34. The next section
            gives (Mas. 30:15) by itself, with the following verses numbered 16-33. Then
            we see (Mas. 31:1) with the following verses given as 2-8.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • Tychon Pino
            Am I wrong in thinking that in other places displaced verses are given their own numbers, or is this done exclusively for extra verses? [Non-text portions of
            Message 5 of 6 , May 5, 2011
              Am I wrong in thinking that in other places displaced verses are given their
              own numbers, or is this done exclusively for "extra" verses?


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kevin P. Edgecomb
              The usage is mixed, Tychon, but for most of these cases, the Hebrew verse numbers are used, but out of numerical order. In the case of Jeremiah, it has its
              Message 6 of 6 , May 5, 2011
                The usage is mixed, Tychon, but for most of these cases, the Hebrew verse numbers are used, but out of numerical order. In the case of Jeremiah, it has its own numbering. Also, you'll note that people often get around the differences by giving a citation as, for example, "Gen 1.1 LXX", which basically means "Genesis 1.1 in the Septuagint" without specifying whether it's according to the Hebrew or Greek numbering. It's quite messy, all told. It doesn't help things that the most commonly owned edition (Rahlfs) and the standard critical edition (the Goettingen Septuaginta) in various places differ in their versification. It's very frustrating and really should be systematized. So, you are not alone in experiencing some discomfort in this!

                Regards,
                Kevin Edgecomb
                Berkeley, California
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