Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

old testament readings

Expand Messages
  • Mike Oravecz
    Is there a book published by the Apostolic Diakonia or any other source with the full text of the old testament readings throughout the year? These would
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 16, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Is there a book published by the Apostolic Diakonia or any other source with the full text of the old testament readings throughout the year? These would include the Genesis, Proverbs and Isaiah readings during the Great Fast. I am interested in the Greek (LXX) primarily, but also in the Slavonic.

      Which of the traditional service books would have these readings?

      Thanks for any help,
      Mike O
    • Peter Papoutsis
      Yes. Its called the Prophetologion and its from the Apostoliki Diakonia. Its also offered in the Orthodox Marketplace of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 17, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes. Its called the Prophetologion and its from the Apostoliki Diakonia.
        Its also offered in the Orthodox Marketplace of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America,
        but is listed as temporarily out of stock.

        Peter A. Papoutsis




        ________________________________
        From: Mike Oravecz <moravecz@...>
        To: LXX email list <lxx@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 11:23:20 PM
        Subject: [lxx] old testament readings


        Is there a book published by the Apostolic Diakonia or any other source with the full text of the old testament readings throughout the year? These would include the Genesis, Proverbs and Isaiah readings during the Great Fast. I am interested in the Greek (LXX) primarily, but also in the Slavonic.

        Which of the traditional service books would have these readings?

        Thanks for any help,
        Mike O






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike Oravecz
        Many thanks, Peter. I had a hunch you d provide the answer. Has anyone published (in print) an English translation of the Prophetologion? Peter, I know your
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 17, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Many thanks, Peter. I had a hunch you'd provide the answer.

          Has anyone published (in print) an English translation of the Prophetologion?
          Peter, I know your Holy Orthodox Bible translation sometimes provides the lectionary text if there are significant variations, but obviously it is not organised as a Prohetologion.

          I've found two English translations on the web. What are the pros and cons of these? Are there any others of note?
          - A provisional translation of the Prophetologion is on Archimandrite Ephrem's website.
          - On the website of the Archdiocese of Canada (OCA) there is a PDF: "Yearly Sanctoral and Festal Readings from the Prophecies, the Law, and the Wisdom, for Vespers and Other Services"

          Mike Oravecz


          -----Original Message-----
          >From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>
          >Sent: Apr 17, 2010 9:23 AM
          >To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [lxx] old testament readings
          >
          >Yes. Its called the Prophetologion and its from the Apostoliki Diakonia.
          >Its also offered in the Orthodox Marketplace of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America,
          >but is listed as temporarily out of stock.
          >
          >Peter A. Papoutsis
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >________________________________
          >From: Mike Oravecz <moravecz@...>
          >To: LXX email list <lxx@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 11:23:20 PM
          >Subject: [lxx] old testament readings
          >
          >
          >Is there a book published by the Apostolic Diakonia or any other source with the full text of the old testament readings throughout the year? These would include the Genesis, Proverbs and Isaiah readings during the Great Fast. I am interested in the Greek (LXX) primarily, but also in the Slavonic.
          >
          >Which of the traditional service books would have these readings?
          >
          >Thanks for any help,
          >Mike O
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Jim
          Greetings all; I have a question on Job 2:9 Could someone explain to me what all the extra references are in the LXX such as 2:9a; 2:9b... etc. What are these
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 17, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Greetings all;

            I have a question on Job 2:9 Could someone explain to me what all the
            extra references are in the LXX such as 2:9a; 2:9b... etc. What are
            these references to?

            Thanks;
            Jim Kirby
          • Peter Papoutsis
             Archimandrite Ephrem s Prophetologion is officially sponsored and sanctioned by the Patriarch of Constandinople. A hardcopy text will be generated, as
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 17, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
               Archimandrite Ephrem's Prophetologion is officially sponsored and sanctioned
              by the Patriarch of Constandinople. A hardcopy text will be generated, as requested by
              the Ecumenical Patriarch, but there is no time table for it.

               Archimandrite Ephrem's website and www.analogion.net/glt/ are the two resources that I use for my translation to see if the Greek LXX text that I am using has any variations with the Church's liturgical LXX text. www.analogion.net/glt/ has ALL of the actual liturgical Greek LXX texts as used in the Greek Church. Ephrem's English translation corresponds perfectly to this.

              Now Archimandrite Ephrem greatly criticizes Brenton's LXX text (Codex Vaticanus) and its English translation as not being a truly Orthodox LXX text nor being a good English translation of the LXX that is suitable for Orthodox Christians.

              Well, I have been studing Archimandrite Ephrem's English translations and comparing them to Brenton's since at least 2002 maybe 2003. If you take out Brenton's Archaic English language and factor in Ephrem's translation preferences over those of Brenton's for the same Greek word or words (Which are not that many) you will find almost no major difference that affects Orthodox Theology when it comes strictly to the LXX texts. Obviously I cannot speak to the liturgical rubrics.

              Brenton has really received a bum rap and the more I study Brenton, his underlying LXX text, the Church's LXX text and the various English translation of the LXX out today one comes to the conclusion that Brenton did one hell of a good job in translating the LXX. HTM praises Brenton's translation and the NETS translators have used his translation extensively in their translation (Look at the introductions).

              So, having said that, Archimandrite Ephrem's translation of the Prophetologion is very, very good and would highly recommend it. I do not totally agree with his assessment of Brenton's English translation, but then again, he's an Archimandrite working with the blessing of the EP and I am not so I cannot criticise his assessments that much.
               
              The Archdiocese of Canada's (OCA) PDF of the "Yearly Sanctoral and Festal Readings from the Prophecies, the Law, and the Wisdom, for Vespers and Other Services" I am not familiar with. However, I do have a splendid copy of their Psalms according to the LXX and find their translation of the LXX Psalms to be very good if not great. I picked up a copy when I was a delegate at the GOA's 38th or 39th Clergy-Laity Conference in Washington D.C back in July of 2008. 
               
              So if the rest of their English translations of the LXX are the same as their Psalms translation I would love to read it and get a copy as they did an excellent job with their LXX Psalm English translation.
               
              Hope this helps. Christos Anesti    
                
              Peter A. Papoutsis
               
              This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.




              ________________________________
              From: Mike Oravecz <moravecz@...>
              To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 9:19:32 AM
              Subject: Re: [lxx] old testament readings

               
              Many thanks, Peter. I had a hunch you'd provide the answer.

              Has anyone published (in print) an English translation of the Prophetologion?
              Peter, I know your Holy Orthodox Bible translation sometimes provides the lectionary text if there are significant variations, but obviously it is not organised as a Prohetologion.

              I've found two English translations on the web. What are the pros and cons of these? Are there any others of note?
              - A provisional translation of the Prophetologion is on Archimandrite Ephrem's website.
              - On the website of the Archdiocese of Canada (OCA) there is a PDF: "Yearly Sanctoral and Festal Readings from the Prophecies, the Law, and the Wisdom, for Vespers and Other Services"

              Mike Oravecz

              -----Original Message-----
              >From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@yahoo. com>
              >Sent: Apr 17, 2010 9:23 AM
              >To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
              >Subject: Re: [lxx] old testament readings
              >
              >Yes. Its called the Prophetologion and its from the Apostoliki Diakonia.
              >Its also offered in the Orthodox Marketplace of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America,
              >but is listed as temporarily out of stock.
              >
              >Peter A. Papoutsis
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >___________ _________ _________ ___
              >From: Mike Oravecz <moravecz@praxtech. com>
              >To: LXX email list <lxx@yahoogroups. com>
              >Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 11:23:20 PM
              >Subject: [lxx] old testament readings
              >
              >
              >Is there a book published by the Apostolic Diakonia or any other source with the full text of the old testament readings throughout the year? These would include the Genesis, Proverbs and Isaiah readings during the Great Fast. I am interested in the Greek (LXX) primarily, but also in the Slavonic.
              >
              >Which of the traditional service books would have these readings?
              >
              >Thanks for any help,
              >Mike O
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >----------- --------- --------- -------
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Peter Papoutsis
              Sorry about that. I usually delete my privilege clause. Will make sure it does not happen again.   Peter A. Papoutsis ________________________________ From:
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 17, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Sorry about that. I usually delete my privilege clause.
                Will make sure it does not happen again.
                 
                Peter A. Papoutsis




                ________________________________
                From: Mike Oravecz <moravecz@...>
                To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sat, April 17, 2010 9:19:32 AM
                Subject: Re: [lxx] old testament readings

                 
                Many thanks, Peter. I had a hunch you'd provide the answer.

                Has anyone published (in print) an English translation of the Prophetologion?
                Peter, I know your Holy Orthodox Bible translation sometimes provides the lectionary text if there are significant variations, but obviously it is not organised as a Prohetologion.

                I've found two English translations on the web. What are the pros and cons of these? Are there any others of note?
                - A provisional translation of the Prophetologion is on Archimandrite Ephrem's website.
                - On the website of the Archdiocese of Canada (OCA) there is a PDF: "Yearly Sanctoral and Festal Readings from the Prophecies, the Law, and the Wisdom, for Vespers and Other Services"

                Mike Oravecz

                -----Original Message-----
                >From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@yahoo. com>
                >Sent: Apr 17, 2010 9:23 AM
                >To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                >Subject: Re: [lxx] old testament readings
                >
                >Yes. Its called the Prophetologion and its from the Apostoliki Diakonia.
                >Its also offered in the Orthodox Marketplace of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America,
                >but is listed as temporarily out of stock.
                >
                >Peter A. Papoutsis
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >___________ _________ _________ ___
                >From: Mike Oravecz <moravecz@praxtech. com>
                >To: LXX email list <lxx@yahoogroups. com>
                >Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 11:23:20 PM
                >Subject: [lxx] old testament readings
                >
                >
                >Is there a book published by the Apostolic Diakonia or any other source with the full text of the old testament readings throughout the year? These would include the Genesis, Proverbs and Isaiah readings during the Great Fast. I am interested in the Greek (LXX) primarily, but also in the Slavonic.
                >
                >Which of the traditional service books would have these readings?
                >
                >Thanks for any help,
                >Mike O
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >----------- --------- --------- -------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • summascriptura
                Here is 2:9 from the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible: Then his wife said to him, Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die. The Greek
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 17, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Here is 2:9 from the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible: "Then his wife said to him, 'Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die.'"

                  The Greek text for this passage is more elaborate. Below is the passage from the NETS. In this example I have removed the NETS numbering of the extra parts and inserted the traditional versification as it appears in Orhtodox Bibles:

                  9 Then after a long time had passed, his wife said to him, "How long will you persist and say, 10 `Look, I will hang on a little longer, while I wait for the hope of my deliverance?' 11 For look, your legacy has vanished from the earth—sons and daughters, my womb's birth pangs and labors, for whom I wearied myself with hardships in vain. 12 And you? You sit in the refuse of worms as you spend the night in the open air. 13 As for me, I am one that wanders about and a hired servant—from place to place and house to house, waiting for when the sun will set, so I can rest from the distresses and griefs that now beset me. 14 Now say some word to the Lord and die!"

                  Since the passage missing from Western Bibles comes in the middle of what we refer to in the West as verse 9, the NETS, rather than use the traditional numbering used in the East, numbers the verses 9a,9b etc.

                  I hope I have not made this seem more complicated than it is.

                  Bob Burns
                  San Francisco

                  --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, Jim <jamesjay@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Greetings all;
                  >
                  > I have a question on Job 2:9 Could someone explain to me what all the
                  > extra references are in the LXX such as 2:9a; 2:9b... etc. What are
                  > these references to?
                  >
                  > Thanks;
                  > Jim Kirby
                  >
                • Jim
                  Hello Mr Burns; Thanks for your reply to my post. So I guess some copies of the LXX have various readings on this verse. I ll have to do some research then to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 18, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Mr Burns;

                    Thanks for your reply to my post. So I guess some copies of the LXX have
                    various readings on this verse. I'll have to do some research then to
                    see if I can follow it out & learn something. I confess I am not much of
                    an expert on the LXX so thank you again.

                    Jim Kirby

                    summascriptura wrote:
                    >
                    > Here is 2:9 from the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible: "Then his
                    > wife said to him, 'Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God
                    > and die.'"
                    >
                    > The Greek text for this passage is more elaborate. Below is the
                    > passage from the NETS. In this example I have removed the NETS
                    > numbering of the extra parts and inserted the traditional
                    > versification as it appears in Orhtodox Bibles:
                    >
                    > 9 Then after a long time had passed, his wife said to him, "How long
                    > will you persist and say, 10 `Look, I will hang on a little longer,
                    > while I wait for the hope of my deliverance? ' 11 For look, your
                    > legacy has vanished from the earth—sons and daughters, my womb's birth
                    > pangs and labors, for whom I wearied myself with hardships in vain. 12
                    > And you? You sit in the refuse of worms as you spend the night in the
                    > open air. 13 As for me, I am one that wanders about and a hired
                    > servant—from place to place and house to house, waiting for when the
                    > sun will set, so I can rest from the distresses and griefs that now
                    > beset me. 14 Now say some word to the Lord and die!"
                    >
                    > Since the passage missing from Western Bibles comes in the middle of
                    > what we refer to in the West as verse 9, the NETS, rather than use the
                    > traditional numbering used in the East, numbers the verses 9a,9b etc.
                    >
                    > I hope I have not made this seem more complicated than it is.
                    >
                    > Bob Burns
                    > San Francisco
                    >
                    > --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com <mailto:lxx%40yahoogroups.com>, Jim
                    > <jamesjay@.. .> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Greetings all;
                    > >
                    > > I have a question on Job 2:9 Could someone explain to me what all the
                    > > extra references are in the LXX such as 2:9a; 2:9b... etc. What are
                    > > these references to?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks;
                    > > Jim Kirby
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    > Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2817 - Release Date: 04/17/10 14:31:00
                    >
                    >
                  • Jannes Smith
                    Dear Jim, The NETS introduction to this book (by Claude Cox) has the following comment on Job 2:9: While the text as a whole reveals conscious shortening,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 18, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Jim,

                      The NETS introduction to this book (by Claude Cox) has the following comment
                      on Job 2:9: "While the text as a whole reveals conscious shortening, there
                      are various additions made along the way. The major ones are: the diatribe
                      of Iob's wife in 2.9a-d - though this may be a later addition ('probably,'
                      according to Fernandez Marcos, 261, citing Heater, 31-36) ..."

                      In case you want to check Cox's sources, he is citing the following:

                      1. Natalio Fernandez Marcos, "The Septuagint Reading of the Book of Job," in
                      The Book of Job (Ed. W.A.M. Beuken; BETL 114; Leuven: University Press /
                      Peeters, 1994) page 261, and

                      2. Homer Heater, Jr., A Septuagint Translation Technique in the Book of Job
                      (CBQMS 11; Washington, DC: Catholic Biblical Association of America, 1982)
                      pages 31-36.

                      Cox's point is that the LXX has an addition vis a vis the Hebrew, but he is
                      not sure whether the addition was made by the translator (and would thus be
                      original to the Greek book) or (more probably according to Fernandez Marcos
                      and Heater) by later copyists.

                      I hope this helps.

                      Jannes


                      on 4/19/10 4:53 AM, Jim at jamesjay@... wrote:

                      > Hello Mr Burns;
                      >
                      > Thanks for your reply to my post. So I guess some copies of the LXX have
                      > various readings on this verse. I'll have to do some research then to
                      > see if I can follow it out & learn something. I confess I am not much of
                      > an expert on the LXX so thank you again.
                      >
                      > Jim Kirby
                      >
                      > summascriptura wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Here is 2:9 from the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible: "Then his
                      >> wife said to him, 'Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God
                      >> and die.'"
                      >>
                      >> The Greek text for this passage is more elaborate. Below is the
                      >> passage from the NETS. In this example I have removed the NETS
                      >> numbering of the extra parts and inserted the traditional
                      >> versification as it appears in Orhtodox Bibles:
                      >>
                      >> 9 Then after a long time had passed, his wife said to him, "How long
                      >> will you persist and say, 10 `Look, I will hang on a little longer,
                      >> while I wait for the hope of my deliverance? ' 11 For look, your
                      >> legacy has vanished from the earth‹sons and daughters, my womb's birth
                      >> pangs and labors, for whom I wearied myself with hardships in vain. 12
                      >> And you? You sit in the refuse of worms as you spend the night in the
                      >> open air. 13 As for me, I am one that wanders about and a hired
                      >> servant‹from place to place and house to house, waiting for when the
                      >> sun will set, so I can rest from the distresses and griefs that now
                      >> beset me. 14 Now say some word to the Lord and die!"
                      >>
                      >> Since the passage missing from Western Bibles comes in the middle of
                      >> what we refer to in the West as verse 9, the NETS, rather than use the
                      >> traditional numbering used in the East, numbers the verses 9a,9b etc.
                      >>
                      >> I hope I have not made this seem more complicated than it is.
                      >>
                      >> Bob Burns
                      >> San Francisco
                      >>
                      >> --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com <mailto:lxx%40yahoogroups.com>, Jim
                      >> <jamesjay@.. .> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> Greetings all;
                      >>>
                      >>> I have a question on Job 2:9 Could someone explain to me what all the
                      >>> extra references are in the LXX such as 2:9a; 2:9b... etc. What are
                      >>> these references to?
                      >>>
                      >>> Thanks;
                      >>> Jim Kirby
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                      >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      >> Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2817 - Release Date: 04/17/10
                      >> 14:31:00
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jim
                      Thank you very much. Most helpful; Jim
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 20, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thank you very much. Most helpful;

                        Jim

                        Jannes Smith wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Jim,
                        >
                        > The NETS introduction to this book (by Claude Cox) has the following
                        > comment
                        > on Job 2:9: "While the text as a whole reveals conscious shortening, there
                        > are various additions made along the way. The major ones are: the diatribe
                        > of Iob's wife in 2.9a-d - though this may be a later addition ('probably,'
                        > according to Fernandez Marcos, 261, citing Heater, 31-36) ..."
                        >
                        > In case you want to check Cox's sources, he is citing the following:
                        >
                        > 1. Natalio Fernandez Marcos, "The Septuagint Reading of the Book of
                        > Job," in
                        > The Book of Job (Ed. W.A.M. Beuken; BETL 114; Leuven: University Press /
                        > Peeters, 1994) page 261, and
                        >
                        > 2. Homer Heater, Jr., A Septuagint Translation Technique in the Book
                        > of Job
                        > (CBQMS 11; Washington, DC: Catholic Biblical Association of America, 1982)
                        > pages 31-36.
                        >
                        > Cox's point is that the LXX has an addition vis a vis the Hebrew, but
                        > he is
                        > not sure whether the addition was made by the translator (and would
                        > thus be
                        > original to the Greek book) or (more probably according to Fernandez
                        > Marcos
                        > and Heater) by later copyists.
                        >
                        > I hope this helps.
                        >
                        > Jannes
                        >
                        > on 4/19/10 4:53 AM, Jim at jamesjay@paonline. com
                        > <mailto:jamesjay%40paonline.com> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hello Mr Burns;
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for your reply to my post. So I guess some copies of the LXX have
                        > > various readings on this verse. I'll have to do some research then to
                        > > see if I can follow it out & learn something. I confess I am not much of
                        > > an expert on the LXX so thank you again.
                        > >
                        > > Jim Kirby
                        > >
                        > > summascriptura wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Here is 2:9 from the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible: "Then his
                        > >> wife said to him, 'Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God
                        > >> and die.'"
                        > >>
                        > >> The Greek text for this passage is more elaborate. Below is the
                        > >> passage from the NETS. In this example I have removed the NETS
                        > >> numbering of the extra parts and inserted the traditional
                        > >> versification as it appears in Orhtodox Bibles:
                        > >>
                        > >> 9 Then after a long time had passed, his wife said to him, "How long
                        > >> will you persist and say, 10 `Look, I will hang on a little longer,
                        > >> while I wait for the hope of my deliverance? ' 11 For look, your
                        > >> legacy has vanished from the earth‹sons and daughters, my womb's birth
                        > >> pangs and labors, for whom I wearied myself with hardships in vain. 12
                        > >> And you? You sit in the refuse of worms as you spend the night in the
                        > >> open air. 13 As for me, I am one that wanders about and a hired
                        > >> servant‹from place to place and house to house, waiting for when the
                        > >> sun will set, so I can rest from the distresses and griefs that now
                        > >> beset me. 14 Now say some word to the Lord and die!"
                        > >>
                        > >> Since the passage missing from Western Bibles comes in the middle of
                        > >> what we refer to in the West as verse 9, the NETS, rather than use the
                        > >> traditional numbering used in the East, numbers the verses 9a,9b etc.
                        > >>
                        > >> I hope I have not made this seem more complicated than it is.
                        > >>
                        > >> Bob Burns
                        > >> San Francisco
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com <mailto:lxx% 40yahoogroups. com>, Jim
                        > >> <jamesjay@.. .> wrote:
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Greetings all;
                        > >>>
                        > >>> I have a question on Job 2:9 Could someone explain to me what all the
                        > >>> extra references are in the LXX such as 2:9a; 2:9b... etc. What are
                        > >>> these references to?
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Thanks;
                        > >>> Jim Kirby
                        > >>>
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        > >> Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2817 - Release Date:
                        > 04/17/10
                        > >> 14:31:00
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        > Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2819 - Release Date: 04/18/10 14:31:00
                        >
                        >
                      • Sam
                        John 19:28-30 in the KJV 28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now ACCOMPLISHED (GREEK TETELESTAI), that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 7, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          John 19:28-30 in the KJV
                          28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now ACCOMPLISHED (GREEK TETELESTAI), that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
                          29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
                          30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED (GREEK TETELESTAI): and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

                          any comment or thoughts on why that word TETELESTAI was used there and what it means to us?
                        • Darrell Smith
                          The power of sin and death had been destroyed by the obedience of the Man Jesus unto death. Ζῆ Χριστός! יְבָרֶכְךָ יָהְוֶה ... From:
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 7, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            The power of sin and death had been destroyed by the obedience of the Man Jesus unto death.

                            Ζῆ Χριστός! יְבָרֶכְךָ יָהְוֶה

                            --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Sam <jim@...> wrote:

                            From: Sam <jim@...>
                            Subject: [lxx] tetelestai
                            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 11:37 AM







                             









                            John 19:28-30 in the KJV

                            28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now ACCOMPLISHED (GREEK TETELESTAI), that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

                            29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

                            30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED (GREEK TETELESTAI): and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.



                            any comment or thoughts on why that word TETELESTAI was used there and what it means to us?






















                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Dan McDevitt
                            Although, this isn t a translation exactly, Scott Hann (Theologian) in his presentation *The Third Cup * says that Jesus is also refering to the end of the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 7, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Although, this isn't a translation exactly, Scott Hann (Theologian) in his
                              presentation "*The Third Cup"* says that Jesus is also refering to the end
                              of the Passover meal because he drinks 2 cups at the meal and then drinks
                              the vinegar, which is the 3rd cup and signifies the end of the ritual.

                              Dan McDevitt
                              Student
                              Cincinnati Christian University


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.