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Re: [lxx] Re: Gen 25:27 aplastos

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  • James
    Gooday! ... . More for my own personal studies. Thank you for a very helpful answer/explanation. Allow me to explain my quest. In cultivating an interest in
    Message 1 of 18 , May 31, 2009
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      Gooday!

      Sigrid Peterson wrote:
      >
      >
      > James,
      > Is this for homework?
      >
      .
      More for my own personal studies. Thank you for a very helpful
      answer/explanation. Allow me to explain my quest. In cultivating an
      interest in the Hebrew language for the purpose of reading the OT I came
      across this site on Ancient Hebrew;

      http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/index.html

      The site makes the following claim;

      "This Greek influence can be clearly seen in names such as Moses which
      comes to us from the Greek Septuagint whereas in the Hebrew it is
      Mosheh. Another example is the name Eve, again from the Greek, where the
      Hebrew has Hhawa. The list is about as long as the number of names in
      the Bible. A little more serious is how the translations have actually
      used the Greek Septuagint for its translation rather than from the
      Hebrew text. An example is Genesis 25:27 where all the translations use
      the words "plain", "quiet" or "simple" to describe the character of
      Jacob. However, the Hebrew word is "tam" and it is properly translated
      in Job 1:1 as "perfect" to describe the character of Job. Why is this
      one Hebrew word translated as "plain" in one place but "perfect" in
      another? The answer is that the translators are using the Greek
      Septuagint rather than the Hebrew for the translation of the Hebrew Bible."

      I am attempting to ascertain just how accurate the claim "the
      translations have actually used the Greek Septuagint for its translation
      rather than from the Hebrew text / that the translators are using the
      Greek Septuagint rather than the Hebrew for the translation of the
      Hebrew Bible" is. Since I only see this in the KJV I would assume that
      this is who he is referring to by "the translators" but I have not
      heard that the men who translated the KJV did so using the LXX.
      Perhaps you or someone else can comment on that.

      Thank you again;
      James Kirby
      .
    • Kostas Papadopoulos
      Hi, The word itself means not-formed (a= + plastos=formated [from the v. plasso = to form]). Since it is possible for plastos to have the
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 2, 2009
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        Hi,
        The word itself means not-formed (a=<negative prefix> + plastos=formated [from the v. plasso = to form]). Since it is possible for "plastos" to have the meaning of "fabricated" according to Hesychius lexicon (5th c. AD)ie. not the truth (Aesch.) - "a-plastos" could have the - metaphorical - meanning of "truthful" and could me a possible rendering of "thm".
        "Simple" in Greek is "aplous" (not-complicated, from nevative "a" + plous=multi (like in "multi-plication"). The two words aplous/aplastos seem related but not directly).

        See also:
        Hesychious lexicon
        5123 απλαστος (aplastos)
        ἄ-πλαστος, ον, not moulded, i. e. in its natural state, natural, unaffected, Plut.

        --- Στις Κυρ., 31/05/09, ο/η James <jamesjay@...> έγραψε:

        > Από: James <jamesjay@...>
        > Θέμα: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos
        > Προς: lxx@yahoogroups.com
        > Ημερομηνία: Κυριακή, 31 Μάιος 2009, 4:13
        > Hello all;
        >
        > New to this group
        >
        > James Kirby
        >
        > Could anyone offer help on a word in Gen 25:27. The word is
        > "aplastos".
        > I cannot find any reference to this word in any lexicon
        > & my copy of the
        > LXX does not give a Strong's #. The Hebrew word is "tam"
        > Strong's # 8535
        > but I cannot find the  Greek "aplastos".
        >
        > Thank you;
        > James
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >     mailto:lxx-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >



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      • James
        Thank you very much. Most helpful! James Kirby
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 2, 2009
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          Thank you very much. Most helpful!

          James Kirby

          Kostas Papadopoulos wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          > The word itself means not-formed (a=<negative prefix> +
          > plastos=formated [from the v. plasso = to form]). Since it is possible
          > for "plastos" to have the meaning of "fabricated" according to
          > Hesychius lexicon (5th c. AD)ie. not the truth (Aesch.) - "a-plastos"
          > could have the - metaphorical - meanning of "truthful" and could me a
          > possible rendering of "thm".
          > "Simple" in Greek is "aplous" (not-complicated, from nevative "a" +
          > plous=multi (like in "multi-plication" ). The two words
          > aplous/aplastos seem related but not directly).
          >
          > See also:
          > Hesychious lexicon
          > 5123 απλαστος (aplastos)
          > ἄ-πλαστος, ον, not moulded, i. e. in its natural state, natural,
          > unaffected, Plut.
          >
          > --- Στις Κυρ., 31/05/09, ο/η James <jamesjay@paonline. com
          > <mailto:jamesjay%40paonline.com>> έγραψε:
          >
          > > Από: James <jamesjay@paonline. com <mailto:jamesjay%40paonline.com>>
          > > Θέμα: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos
          > > Προς: lxx@yahoogroups. com <mailto:lxx%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > Ημερομηνία: Κυριακή, 31 Μάιος 2009, 4:13
          > > Hello all;
          > >
          > > New to this group
          > >
          > > James Kirby
          > >
          > > Could anyone offer help on a word in Gen 25:27. The word is
          > > "aplastos".
          > > I cannot find any reference to this word in any lexicon
          > > & my copy of the
          > > LXX does not give a Strong's #. The Hebrew word is "tam"
          > > Strong's # 8535
          > > but I cannot find the Greek "aplastos".
          > >
          > > Thank you;
          > > James
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > > mailto:lxx-fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
          > <mailto:lxx-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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        • Branka ARRIVE
          The two words ( haplous and aplastos ) are not related at all. The a in haplous is from Indoeuropean *sem/sm*- (one, single) like in Latin simplex
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 2, 2009
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            The two words ("haplous" and "aplastos") are not related at all. The "a" in "haplous" is from Indoeuropean *sem/sm*- (one, single) like in Latin "simplex" (those two words ARE related), whereas the "a" in "aplastos" is alpha privativum.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Kostas Papadopoulos
            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:51 AM
            Subject: Re: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos






            Hi,
            The word itself means not-formed (a=<negative prefix> + plastos=formated [from the v. plasso = to form]). Since it is possible for "plastos" to have the meaning of "fabricated" according to Hesychius lexicon (5th c. AD)ie. not the truth (Aesch.) - "a-plastos" could have the - metaphorical - meanning of "truthful" and could me a possible rendering of "thm".
            "Simple" in Greek is "aplous" (not-complicated, from nevative "a" + plous=multi (like in "multi-plication"). The two words aplous/aplastos seem related but not directly).

            See also:
            Hesychious lexicon
            5123 απλαστος (aplastos)
            ἄ-πλαστος, ον, not moulded, i. e. in its natural state, natural, unaffected, Plut.

            --- Στις Κυρ., 31/05/09, ο/η James <jamesjay@...> έγραψε:

            > Από: James <jamesjay@...>
            > Θέμα: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos
            > Προς: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            > Ημερομηνία: Κυριακή, 31 Μάιος 2009, 4:13
            > Hello all;
            >
            > New to this group
            >
            > James Kirby
            >
            > Could anyone offer help on a word in Gen 25:27. The word is
            > "aplastos".
            > I cannot find any reference to this word in any lexicon
            > & my copy of the
            > LXX does not give a Strong's #. The Hebrew word is "tam"
            > Strong's # 8535
            > but I cannot find the Greek "aplastos".
            >
            > Thank you;
            > James
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > mailto:lxx-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >

            __________________________________________________________
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          • George Blaisdell
            Thank-you for a singularly helpful post, That a-privative was bothering me... As applied to women, then, what meaning can we ascribe? Arsenios George Blaisdell
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 2, 2009
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              Thank-you for a singularly helpful post,

              That a-privative was bothering me...

              As applied to women, then, what meaning can we ascribe?

              Arsenios

              George Blaisdell
              Roslyn, WA





              To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              From: el504@...
              Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 01:51:39 -0700
              Subject: Re: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos




























              Hi,

              The word itself means not-formed (a=<negative prefix> + plastos=formated [from the v. plasso = to form]). Since it is possible for "plastos" to have the meaning of "fabricated" according to Hesychius lexicon (5th c. AD)ie. not the truth (Aesch.) - "a-plastos" could have the - metaphorical - meanning of "truthful" and could me a possible rendering of "thm".

              "Simple" in Greek is "aplous" (not-complicated, from nevative "a" + plous=multi (like in "multi-plication"). The two words aplous/aplastos seem related but not directly).



              See also:

              Hesychious lexicon

              5123 απλαστος (aplastos)

              ἄ-πλαστος, ον, not moulded, i. e. in its natural state, natural, unaffected, Plut.



              --- Στις Κυρ., 31/05/09, ο/η James <jamesjay@...> έγραψε:



              > Από: James <jamesjay@...>

              > Θέμα: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos

              > Προς: lxx@yahoogroups.com

              > Ημερομηνία: Κυριακή, 31 Μάιος 2009, 4:13

              > Hello all;

              >

              > New to this group

              >

              > James Kirby

              >

              > Could anyone offer help on a word in Gen 25:27. The word is

              > "aplastos".

              > I cannot find any reference to this word in any lexicon

              > & my copy of the

              > LXX does not give a Strong's #. The Hebrew word is "tam"

              > Strong's # 8535

              > but I cannot find the Greek "aplastos".

              >

              > Thank you;

              > James

              >

              >

              > ------------------------------------

              >

              > Yahoo! Groups Links

              >

              >

              > mailto:lxx-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

              >

              >

              >



              __________________________________________________________

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            • Kostas Papadopoulos
              I m not so sure about that. I think that the spelling ha-plous is deceiving. ... I m not sure about that. A in a-plous is also likely to be a-privative:
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 2, 2009
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                I'm not so sure about that.
                I think that the spelling "ha-plous" is deceiving.
                --- Στις Τρίτ., 02/06/09, ο/η Branka ARRIVE <branka@...> έγραψε:

                > Από: Branka ARRIVE <branka@...>
                > Θέμα: Re: [lxx] Gen 25:27 aplastos
                > Προς: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                > Ημερομηνία: Τρίτη, 2 Ιούνιος 2009, 18:50
                > The two words ("haplous" and
                > "aplastos") are not related at all. The "a" in "haplous" is
                > from Indoeuropean *sem/sm*- (one, single) like in Latin
                > "simplex" (those two words ARE related), whereas the "a" in
                > "aplastos" is alpha privativum.
                >

                I'm not sure about that.
                "A" in a-plous is also likely to be a-privative:
                a-plous=simple/single (not-many)
                di-plous=double (two-many)
                tri-plous=triple (three-many)
                tetra-plous...
                penta-...
                etc. etc.

                "plous" is form "many", "multi", "additional", (in English "plus"). The word is related to "simple" / "simplex" in meaning and suffix, but the prefix....?





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