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Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

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  • Bob Burns
    Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.? My RSV, ESV and NAS obviously do not. Any good ones out there? NETS is wonderdul, but I m looking for
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 6, 2008
      Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

      My RSV, ESV and NAS obviously do not.

      Any good ones out there?

      NETS is wonderdul, but I'm looking for one which lends itself to easy
      reading in a group setting.
    • Chris Weimer
      Apart from translations of the LXX, try looking for a translation of the Orthodox Bible. The Greek Orthodoxy still use the LXX as their OT. Chris
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 6, 2008
        Apart from translations of the LXX, try looking for a translation of
        the Orthodox Bible. The Greek Orthodoxy still use the LXX as their OT.

        Chris

        --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burns" <summascriptura@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?
        >
        > My RSV, ESV and NAS obviously do not.
        >
        > Any good ones out there?
        >
        > NETS is wonderdul, but I'm looking for one which lends itself to easy
        > reading in a group setting.
        >
      • Kevin P. Edgecomb
        Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new Orthodox Study Bible from Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many of the books in
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 6, 2008
          Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible" from
          Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many of the
          books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
          resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the various
          books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
          Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)

          Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is inexpensive,
          well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be somewhat
          intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the group.
          The translation itself is very nice.

          Regards,
          Kevin P. Edgecomb
          Berkeley, California


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bob Burns
          Okay. You sold me. Its just the personal names and place names are, well, you know, Greek. It can be a bit off-putting to a novice at first. Then there is
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 6, 2008
            Okay. You sold me. Its just the personal names and place names are,
            well, you know, Greek. It can be a bit off-putting to a novice at
            first. Then there is the bit in the introduction where the editor says
            something like, "this is not for reading in the church", or something or
            other, but you're right. Its the best we got so I'll just go with it.




            --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin P. Edgecomb" <kevin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible"
            from
            > Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many of
            the
            > books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
            > resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the
            various
            > books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
            > Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)
            >
            > Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is
            inexpensive,
            > well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be
            somewhat
            > intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the
            group.
            > The translation itself is very nice.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Kevin P. Edgecomb
            > Berkeley, California
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • patandjimellis
            ... The Complete Apostle s Bible translated by Paul Esposito is one
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 6, 2008
              --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burns" <summascriptura@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?
              >
              > My RSV, ESV and NAS obviously do not.
              >
              > Any good ones out there?
              >
              > NETS is wonderdul, but I'm looking for one which lends itself to easy
              > reading in a group setting.
              >


              The Complete Apostle's Bible translated by Paul Esposito is one
              http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Complete+Apostles%27+Bible&x=15&y=18

              Also The Apostolic Bible Polyglot is another
              http://apostolicbible.com/

              Jim Ellis
              http://www.geocities.com/patandjimellis/index.html
            • Peter Papoutsis
              Unfortunately the Orthodox Study Bible is neither a proper translation of the LXX nor the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church.   Peter A. Papoutsis
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                Unfortunately the Orthodox Study Bible is neither a proper translation of the LXX nor the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church.
                 
                Peter A. Papoutsis
                 
                This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: dantiller2001 <dantiller2001@...>
                To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:09:50 AM
                Subject: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                Kevin,
                I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.

                Here's a good article about gender neutrality & the NRSV:
                http://www.cbmw org/Resources/ Articles/ What-s-Wrong- with-Gender- Neutral-Bible- Translations

                I'm much more in agreement with the NKJV's philosophy of literal
                translation.
                Dan

                --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com, "Kevin P. Edgecomb" <kevin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible"
                from
                > Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many
                of the
                > books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
                > resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the various
                > books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
                > Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)
                >
                > Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is
                inexpensive,
                > well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be
                somewhat
                > intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the
                group.
                > The translation itself is very nice.
                >
                > Regards,
                > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                > Berkeley, California
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • everard johnston
                Dear Peter Papoutsis, Though I am not a member of an Orthodox Church, I purchased a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible.  I was surprised to learn from your note
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                  Dear Peter Papoutsis,

                  Though I am not a member of an Orthodox Church, I purchased a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible.  I was surprised to learn from your note that it does not contain "the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church."  Please inform me what texts are either missing from or incorrectly included in the New Testament of the Orthodox Study Bible.

                  Many thanks,

                  Everard Johnston.



                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>
                  To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:22:40 PM
                  Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                  Unfortunately the Orthodox Study Bible is neither a proper translation of the LXX nor the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church.
                   
                  Peter A. Papoutsis
                   
                  This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: dantiller2001 <dantiller2001@ yahoo.com>
                  To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:09:50 AM
                  Subject: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                  Kevin,
                  I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                  Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                  translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.

                  Here's a good article about gender neutrality & the NRSV:
                  http://www.cbmw org/Resources/ Articles/ What-s-Wrong- with-Gender- Neutral-Bible- Translations

                  I'm much more in agreement with the NKJV's philosophy of literal
                  translation.
                  Dan

                  --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com, "Kevin P. Edgecomb" <kevin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible"
                  from
                  > Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many
                  of the
                  > books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
                  > resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the various
                  > books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
                  > Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)
                  >
                  > Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is
                  inexpensive,
                  > well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be
                  somewhat
                  > intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the
                  group.
                  > The translation itself is very nice.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                  > Berkeley, California
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • everard johnston
                  Dear Peter Papoutsis, Though I am not a member of an Orthodox Church, I purchased a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible.  I was surprised to learn from your note
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                    Dear Peter Papoutsis,

                    Though I am not a member of an Orthodox Church, I purchased a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible.  I was surprised to learn from your note that it does not contain "the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church."  Please inform me what texts are either missing from or incorrectly included in the New Testament of the Orthodox Study Bible.

                    Many thanks,

                    Everard Johnston.



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>
                    To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:22:40 PM
                    Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                    Unfortunately the Orthodox Study Bible is neither a proper translation of the LXX nor the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church.
                     
                    Peter A. Papoutsis
                     
                    This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: dantiller2001 <dantiller2001@ yahoo.com>
                    To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:09:50 AM
                    Subject: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                    Kevin,
                    I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                    Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                    translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.

                    Here's a good article about gender neutrality & the NRSV:
                    http://www.cbmw org/Resources/ Articles/ What-s-Wrong- with-Gender- Neutral-Bible- Translations

                    I'm much more in agreement with the NKJV's philosophy of literal
                    translation.
                    Dan

                    --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com, "Kevin P. Edgecomb" <kevin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible"
                    from
                    > Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many
                    of the
                    > books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
                    > resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the various
                    > books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
                    > Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)
                    >
                    > Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is
                    inexpensive,
                    > well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be
                    somewhat
                    > intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the
                    group.
                    > The translation itself is very nice.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                    > Berkeley, California
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Peter Papoutsis
                    The OSB uses the traditional Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and NOT the Official Greek New Testament as authorized by the Patriarchate of Constandinople.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                      The OSB uses the traditional Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and NOT the Official Greek New Testament as authorized by the Patriarchate of Constandinople. The Official text and TR are about 95% accurate, but have some differences. For example Revelations Ch.8:13 reads "Eagle" in the Constandinople Text, but "Angel" in the TR Greek New Testament. Certain place names are different between the texts, and certain sentence structures are different between the two texts that slightly change meaning, as well as different section headings and division of verses.

                      I'll get you a proper list later tonight. my personal e-mail is Papoutsis1@... so we can discuss this matter and not get off-topic.
                       
                      Peter A. Papoutsis
                       
                      This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.



                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: everard johnston <ejohnston105@...>
                      To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:34:23 PM
                      Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                      Dear Peter Papoutsis,

                      Though I am not a member of an Orthodox Church, I purchased a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible.  I was surprised to learn from your note that it does not contain "the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church."  Please inform me what texts are either missing from or incorrectly included in the New Testament of the Orthodox Study Bible.

                      Many thanks,

                      Everard Johnston.

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@yahoo. com>
                      To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:22:40 PM
                      Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                      Unfortunately the Orthodox Study Bible is neither a proper translation of the LXX nor the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church.
                       
                      Peter A. Papoutsis
                       
                      This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: dantiller2001 <dantiller2001@ yahoo.com>
                      To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:09:50 AM
                      Subject: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                      Kevin,
                      I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                      Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                      translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.

                      Here's a good article about gender neutrality & the NRSV:
                      http://www.cbmw org/Resources/ Articles/ What-s-Wrong- with-Gender- Neutral-Bible- Translations

                      I'm much more in agreement with the NKJV's philosophy of literal
                      translation.
                      Dan

                      --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com, "Kevin P. Edgecomb" <kevin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible"
                      from
                      > Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many
                      of the
                      > books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
                      > resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the various
                      > books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
                      > Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)
                      >
                      > Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is
                      inexpensive,
                      > well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be
                      somewhat
                      > intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the
                      group.
                      > The translation itself is very nice.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                      > Berkeley, California
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • everard johnston
                      Many thanks to you, Peter.   Everard Johnston. ... From: Peter Papoutsis To: lxx@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                        Many thanks to you, Peter.
                         
                        Everard Johnston.



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>
                        To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 1:50:08 PM
                        Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                        The OSB uses the traditional Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and NOT the Official Greek New Testament as authorized by the Patriarchate of Constandinople. The Official text and TR are about 95% accurate, but have some differences. For example Revelations Ch.8:13 reads "Eagle" in the Constandinople Text, but "Angel" in the TR Greek New Testament. Certain place names are different between the texts, and certain sentence structures are different between the two texts that slightly change meaning, as well as different section headings and division of verses.

                        I'll get you a proper list later tonight. my personal e-mail is Papoutsis1@yahoo. com so we can discuss this matter and not get off-topic.
                         
                        Peter A. Papoutsis
                         
                        This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: everard johnston <ejohnston105@ yahoo.com>
                        To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:34:23 PM
                        Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                        Dear Peter Papoutsis,

                        Though I am not a member of an Orthodox Church, I purchased a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible.  I was surprised to learn from your note that it does not contain "the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church."  Please inform me what texts are either missing from or incorrectly included in the New Testament of the Orthodox Study Bible.

                        Many thanks,

                        Everard Johnston.

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@ yahoo. com>
                        To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:22:40 PM
                        Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                        Unfortunately the Orthodox Study Bible is neither a proper translation of the LXX nor the official New Testament of the Orthodox Church.
                         
                        Peter A. Papoutsis
                         
                        This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the addressee or the intended recipient of this message, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the addressee, then be notified hereby that any dissemination or duplication of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please telephone us immediately, return the message to the sender, and delete the original message from your system.

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: dantiller2001 <dantiller2001@ yahoo.com>
                        To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:09:50 AM
                        Subject: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                        Kevin,
                        I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                        Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                        translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.

                        Here's a good article about gender neutrality & the NRSV:
                        http://www.cbmw org/Resources/ Articles/ What-s-Wrong- with-Gender- Neutral-Bible- Translations

                        I'm much more in agreement with the NKJV's philosophy of literal
                        translation.
                        Dan

                        --- In lxx@yahoogroups. com, "Kevin P. Edgecomb" <kevin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Bob, NETS is so far the best. There is a new "Orthodox Study Bible"
                        from
                        > Thomas Nelson Publishers but it is a hybrid translation, with many
                        of the
                        > books in the OT being the New King James Version altered in places to
                        > resemble the Septuagint. The quality of the translations of the various
                        > books is shockingly uneven. (As a disclaimer of sorts, I am Eastern
                        > Orthodox myself, and very disappointed with this product.)
                        >
                        > Why would NETS not be good for a group setting? The edition is
                        inexpensive,
                        > well-printed, and remarkably readable. The introductions may be
                        somewhat
                        > intimidating, but those may be passed by if they're too much for the
                        group.
                        > The translation itself is very nice.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                        > Berkeley, California
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                        Relatedly, Mr Johnston, the Orthodox Study Bible (both editions) simply includes the New Testament in the New King James Version. It was not a new translation
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                          Relatedly, Mr Johnston, the Orthodox Study Bible (both editions)
                          simply includes the New Testament in the New King James Version. It
                          was not a new translation at all. Peter is describing the basis of
                          the NKJV.

                          Regards,
                          Kevin P. Edgecomb
                          Berkeley, California

                          Quoting everard johnston <ejohnston105@...>:

                          > Many thanks to you, Peter.
                          >  
                          > Everard Johnston.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>
                          > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 1:50:08 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX
                          > for the O.T.?
                          >
                          >
                          > The OSB uses the traditional Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and
                          > NOT the Official Greek New Testament as authorized by the
                          > Patriarchate of Constandinople. The Official text and TR are about
                          > 95% accurate, but have some differences. For example Revelations
                          > Ch.8:13 reads "Eagle" in the Constandinople Text, but "Angel" in the
                          > TR Greek New Testament. Certain place names are different between
                          > the texts, and certain sentence structures are different between the
                          > two texts that slightly change meaning, as well as different
                          > section headings and division of verses.
                          >
                          > I'll get you a proper list later tonight. my personal e-mail is
                          > Papoutsis1@yahoo. com so we can discuss this matter and not get
                          > off-topic.
                          >  
                          > Peter A. Papoutsis
                        • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                          Dan, there is nothing to worry about on that score. I think the introductory materials of the NETS are easily misconstrued to imply that the NRSV is more of a
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                            Dan, there is nothing to worry about on that score. I think the
                            introductory materials of the NETS are easily misconstrued to imply
                            that the NRSV is more of a basis for the translation than it really
                            is. It seems, in reading, more to have been only a stylistic
                            influence. All of the books were translated afresh. The gender
                            neutrality that concerns you was explicitly avoided in the NETS, just
                            as is described in the same introductory materials.

                            For now, NETS is the best widely available English translation of the
                            Septuagint.

                            Regards,
                            Kevin P. Edgecomb
                            Berkeley, California

                            Quoting dantiller2001 <dantiller2001@...>:

                            > Kevin,
                            > I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                            > Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                            > translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.
                          • Peter Papoutsis
                            What Kevin said is correct. Sorry for not being clear.   Peter A. Papoutsis ... From: Kevin P. Edgecomb To: lxx@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                              What Kevin said is correct. Sorry for not being clear.
                               
                              Peter A. Papoutsis

                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Kevin P. Edgecomb <kevin@...>
                              To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 4:41:03 PM
                              Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                              Relatedly, Mr Johnston, the Orthodox Study Bible (both editions)
                              simply includes the New Testament in the New King James Version. It
                              was not a new translation at all. Peter is describing the basis of
                              the NKJV.

                              Regards,
                              Kevin P. Edgecomb
                              Berkeley, California

                              Quoting everard johnston <ejohnston105@ yahoo.com>:

                              > Many thanks to you, Peter.
                              >  
                              > Everard Johnston.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@yahoo. com>
                              > To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                              > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 1:50:08 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX
                              > for the O.T.?
                              >
                              >
                              > The OSB uses the traditional Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and
                              > NOT the Official Greek New Testament as authorized by the
                              > Patriarchate of Constandinople. The Official text and TR are about
                              > 95% accurate, but have some differences. For example Revelations
                              > Ch.8:13 reads "Eagle" in the Constandinople Text, but "Angel" in the
                              > TR Greek New Testament. Certain place names are different between
                              > the texts, and certain sentence structures are different between the
                              > two texts that slightly change meaning, as well as different
                              > section headings and division of verses.
                              >
                              > I'll get you a proper list later tonight. my personal e-mail is
                              > Papoutsis1@yahoo. com so we can discuss this matter and not get
                              > off-topic.
                              >  
                              > Peter A. Papoutsis





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • fivefree@aol.com
                              In a message dated 10/9/2008 10:10:30 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, dantiller2001@yahoo.com writes: Kevin, I m also interested in the NETS, but there s one
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 9, 2008
                                In a message dated 10/9/2008 10:10:30 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
                                dantiller2001@... writes:

                                Kevin,
                                I'm also interested in the NETS, but there's one thing (other than the
                                Greek name renderings already mentioned) putting me off: The
                                translation philosophy of the NRSV, which this is based on.


                                Thank you for this information. I did not know this and will stay away from
                                it also. Political philosophies such as political correctness have no
                                business influencing text translations.

                                J.M. Jackson

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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                                Mr Jackson and others, below you will find the specific section from the NETS introduction, To the Reader, (pp xv-xvi) which describes the relationship
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 10, 2008
                                  Mr Jackson and others, below you will find the specific section from the
                                  NETS introduction, "To the Reader," (pp xv-xvi) which describes the
                                  relationship between NETS and NRSV. Note especially number 5 in the second
                                  paragraph, regarding gender-based language. Note especially the last two
                                  sentences of the first paragraph, which explicitly state that although the
                                  NRSV was used as a kind of model, it "has not been allowed to interfere with
                                  faithfulness to the Greek text." There is hardly a way to make it any
                                  clearer. The goal in using the NRSV's language in NETS was as a study aid.
                                  Where the Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek texts are similar, and the Greek text
                                  allows it, the language of the NRSV was in theory preferred (though not
                                  always in practice, to be sure) for the benefit of side by side reading.
                                  The idea was that those who have no Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek would perceive
                                  the differences between the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint through their
                                  translations in the NRSV and NETS respectively. This was a noble goal, but
                                  apparently more difficult to implement, as it is quite apparent that the
                                  NETS translation is very much different than the NRSV in precisely those
                                  Hebrew/Aramaic books, even where the language is quite close. Worries about
                                  use of the NRSV as a slightly altered boilerplate in the NETS are
                                  unwarranted. That is, however, precisely the case with the NKJV and the new
                                  Orthodox Study Bible, wherein the NKJV text was in many books only slightly
                                  altered toward the LXX, while other books were fully translated from the
                                  Greek; that one is a mixed bag of not very fresh greens.

                                  [quote] NETS AS MODIFIED NRSV

                                  Two considerations have guided the Committee in choosing an English version
                                  as the base text for NETS: (1) general compatibility of translational
                                  approach with that of the LXX itself and (2) widespread use among readers of
                                  the Bible. The New Revised Standard Version, based as it is on the maxim "as
                                  literal as possible, as free as necessary" (Preface), was thought to be
                                  reasonably well suited to NETS purposes on both counts. Consequently,
                                  throughout those Septuagint books which have extant counterparts in Hebrew
                                  (or Aramaic), NETS translators have sought to retain the NRSV to the extent
                                  that the Greek text, in their understanding of it, directs or permits. NETS'
                                  synoptic aim, however, has not been allowed to interfere with faithfulness
                                  to the Greek text.



                                  When NETS differs from the NRSV, the reason is typically one of the
                                  following: (1) the lexical choice of the NRSV to represent the Hebrew
                                  differs significantly from that of the Greek translator's, even though
                                  either rendering, independently, might be regarded as an adequate
                                  translation of the same Hebrew; (2) differences in translational approach
                                  between the translators of the NRSV and the ancient Greek translators has
                                  occasioned noteworthy differences between the two versions, (for example, in
                                  any given passage, the Greek might be hyper-literalistic, where the NRSV is
                                  not, or again it might be very free, which the NRSV is not); (3) an attempt
                                  to reflect linguistic features in the Greek, such as word echoes or
                                  paratactic style, at times has required that the NRSV wording be modified;
                                  (4) the Greek translator has apparently rendered a text at variance with MT,
                                  due to textual difference; (5) the NRSV has opted for gender-inclusive or
                                  explicit language, eschewed by NETS; (6) the NRSV has not translated MT, but
                                  opted instead for some other reading. Naturally, where, in such instances,
                                  the NRSV has adopted the reading of the Septuagint, NETS and NRSV agree. As
                                  a rule such cases have been annotated in the NRSV, but the reader should not
                                  take for granted that the precise English word used by the NRSV has been
                                  adopted by NETS.



                                  The Committee's desire to enable the reader to make use of NETS in synoptic
                                  manner with the NRSV has been second only to its commitment to giving a
                                  faithful rendering of the Greek original. In fact, NETS may be said to have
                                  two competing aims: (1) to give as faithful a translation of the Greek as is
                                  possible, both in terms of its meaning and in terms of its mode of
                                  expression and (2) to create a tool in English for the synoptic study of the
                                  Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible. Since these are competing aims, the
                                  translator often, especially on the expression side, has been called upon to
                                  do a balancing act. [unquote]



                                  Regards,

                                  Kevin P. Edgecomb

                                  Berkeley, California



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • everard johnston
                                  Many thanks for the clarification. Everard Johnston. ... From: Peter Papoutsis To: lxx@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 10, 2008
                                    Many thanks for the clarification.

                                    Everard Johnston.



                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>
                                    To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:34:00 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?


                                    What Kevin said is correct. Sorry for not being clear.
                                     
                                    Peter A. Papoutsis

                                    ----- Original Message ----
                                    From: Kevin P. Edgecomb <kevin@bombaxo. com>
                                    To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 4:41:03 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX for the O.T.?

                                    Relatedly, Mr Johnston, the Orthodox Study Bible (both editions)
                                    simply includes the New Testament in the New King James Version. It
                                    was not a new translation at all. Peter is describing the basis of
                                    the NKJV.

                                    Regards,
                                    Kevin P. Edgecomb
                                    Berkeley, California

                                    Quoting everard johnston <ejohnston105@ yahoo.com>:

                                    > Many thanks to you, Peter.
                                    >  
                                    > Everard Johnston.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > From: Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@ yahoo. com>
                                    > To: lxx@yahoogroups. com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 1:50:08 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: Are there existing Bibles which use the LXX
                                    > for the O.T.?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > The OSB uses the traditional Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and
                                    > NOT the Official Greek New Testament as authorized by the
                                    > Patriarchate of Constandinople. The Official text and TR are about
                                    > 95% accurate, but have some differences. For example Revelations
                                    > Ch.8:13 reads "Eagle" in the Constandinople Text, but "Angel" in the
                                    > TR Greek New Testament. Certain place names are different between
                                    > the texts, and certain sentence structures are different between the
                                    > two texts that slightly change meaning, as well as different
                                    > section headings and division of verses.
                                    >
                                    > I'll get you a proper list later tonight. my personal e-mail is
                                    > Papoutsis1@yahoo. com so we can discuss this matter and not get
                                    > off-topic.
                                    >  
                                    > Peter A. Papoutsis


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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