Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation

Expand Messages
  • Far Talk
    If they changed the names to match the Medieval pointings of the Massoretes, wouldn t that mean altering the base text of LXX and anachronistic, too? On Thu,
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      If they changed the names to match the Medieval pointings of the Massoretes,
      wouldn't that mean altering the base text of LXX and anachronistic, too?

      On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Fr. John Whiteford <
      frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:

      > I am looking forward to seeing it as well, and expect that it will be
      > the most useable translation for liturgical purposes available, but
      > unfortunatley, the translation (at least judging from the Psalter,
      > which is available online) opted to use the Greek form of names for
      > places and persons, rather than the forms that have been in standard
      > use in English for the past 4 centuries+.
      >
      > It makes such a translation far less useful when you have names
      > like "Nabuchodnosor..." and "Elliseus", that are not going to be
      > found in your standard Bible Dictionary or encyclopedia. We have
      > English translations of these names, and it makes little sense to use
      > strange forms that most people are unfamiliar with, and will not be
      > able to look up in any standard texts.
      >
      > The NETS translation is even worse, in that respect, I should add.
      >
      > -Fr. John Whiteford
      >
      >
      > --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%40yahoogroups.com>, Peter Papoutsis
      > <papoutsis1@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > I am very well aware of this as I was communicating with Michael on
      > this subject after his LXX Psalms translation came out. He wanted to
      > use my footnotes in my translation of the LXX and I agreed to
      > allowing him to use my footnotes. However, CTOS has to make the final
      > decision on this. I can't wait to see his final product as the
      > samples that he has allowed me to review are very, very good.
      > >
      > > Peter A. Papoutsis
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > From: criostoir1971 <criostoir1971@...>
      > > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:56:45 PM
      > > Subject: [lxx] New upcoming LXX translation
      > >
      > >
      > > I just received the latest issue of "Orthodox Tradition," published
      > by
      > > the Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, and it lists the
      > > following title as a forthcoming publication:
      > >
      > > "The Septuagint: Old Testament and Apocrypha," complied by Michael
      > > Asser, to be published in six volumes: the Pentateuch, followed by
      > the
      > > Historical Books (in 2 volumes), the Poetical Books, and the Minor
      > and
      > > Major Prophets (in 2 volumes).
      > >
      > > Given the consistently high quality of translations produced by the
      > > CTOS, this should be an excellent reference for all Orthodox
      > > Christians.
      > >
      > > In Christ,
      > > Chris
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • andrew fincke
      Dear Far, Not sure what you re getting at. Ezekiel s a tongue-twister, but try saying it in Hebrew! Yechezkeyl means God is strong , but LXX
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Far,
        Not sure what you're getting at. "Ezekiel"'s a tongue-twister, but try saying it in Hebrew! "Yechezkeyl" means "God is strong", but LXX �������� (YEZEKIHL) is a mystery to me. It captures the rhythm of the Hebrew but displaces a syllable. Any ideas?
        Andrew Fincke



        To: lxx@yahoogroups.comFrom: far.talk@...: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation




        If they changed the names to match the Medieval pointings of the Massoretes,wouldn't that mean altering the base text of LXX and anachronistic, too?On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Fr. John Whiteford <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:> I am looking forward to seeing it as well, and expect that it will be> the most useable translation for liturgical purposes available, but> unfortunatley, the translation (at least judging from the Psalter,> which is available online) opted to use the Greek form of names for> places and persons, rather than the forms that have been in standard> use in English for the past 4 centuries+.>> It makes such a translation far less useful when you have names> like "Nabuchodnosor..." and "Elliseus", that are not going to be> found in your standard Bible Dictionary or encyclopedia. We have> English translations of these names, and it makes little sense to use> strange forms that most people are unfamiliar with, and will not be> able to look up in any standard texts.>> The NETS translation is even worse, in that respect, I should add.>> -Fr. John Whiteford>>> --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%40yahoogroups.com>, Peter Papoutsis> <papoutsis1@...> wrote:> >> > I am very well aware of this as I was communicating with Michael on> this subject after his LXX Psalms translation came out. He wanted to> use my footnotes in my translation of the LXX and I agreed to> allowing him to use my footnotes. However, CTOS has to make the final> decision on this. I can't wait to see his final product as the> samples that he has allowed me to review are very, very good.> >> > Peter A. Papoutsis> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----> > From: criostoir1971 <criostoir1971@...>> > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:56:45 PM> > Subject: [lxx] New upcoming LXX translation> >> >> > I just received the latest issue of "Orthodox Tradition," published> by> > the Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, and it lists the> > following title as a forthcoming publication:> >> > "The Septuagint: Old Testament and Apocrypha," complied by Michael> > Asser, to be published in six volumes: the Pentateuch, followed by> the> > Historical Books (in 2 volumes), the Poetical Books, and the Minor> and> > Major Prophets (in 2 volumes).> >> > Given the consistently high quality of translations produced by the> > CTOS, this should be an excellent reference for all Orthodox> > Christians.> >> > In Christ,> > Chris> >> >> >> >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        _________________________________________________________________
        Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
        http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Far Talk
        I am not familiar with that form of Ezekiel (Yechezkeyl). One of the reasons for using LXX is to see what it witnesses to. If it is true that LXX and
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 10, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I am not familiar with that form of "Ezekiel" (Yechezkeyl). One of the
          reasons for using LXX is to see what it witnesses to. If it is true that LXX
          and Masoretic represent separate traditions, then it might be misleading to
          conflate them in regard to proper nouns and the linguistic information that
          the LXX may preserve would be lost.

          On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:52 PM, andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:

          >
          > Dear Far,
          > Not sure what you're getting at. "Ezekiel"'s a tongue-twister, but try
          > saying it in Hebrew! "Yechezkeyl" means "God is strong", but LXX Éåæåêéçë
          > (YEZEKIHL) is a mystery to me. It captures the rhythm of the Hebrew but
          > displaces a syllable. Any ideas?
          > Andrew Fincke
          >
          >
          >
          > To: lxx@yahoogroups.comFrom: far.talk@...: Tue, 2 Sep 2008
          > 11:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > If they changed the names to match the Medieval pointings of the
          > Massoretes,wouldn't that mean altering the base text of LXX and
          > anachronistic, too?On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Fr. John Whiteford <
          > frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:> I am looking forward to seeing it as
          > well, and expect that it will be> the most useable translation for
          > liturgical purposes available, but> unfortunatley, the translation (at least
          > judging from the Psalter,> which is available online) opted to use the Greek
          > form of names for> places and persons, rather than the forms that have been
          > in standard> use in English for the past 4 centuries+.>> It makes such a
          > translation far less useful when you have names> like "Nabuchodnosor..." and
          > "Elliseus", that are not going to be> found in your standard Bible
          > Dictionary or encyclopedia. We have> English translations of these names,
          > and it makes little sense to use> strange forms that most people are
          > unfamiliar with, and will not be> able to look up in any standard texts.>>
          > The NETS translation is even worse, in that respect, I should add.>> -Fr.
          > John Whiteford>>> --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > Peter Papoutsis> <papoutsis1@...> wrote:> >> > I am very well aware of
          > this as I was communicating with Michael on> this subject after his LXX
          > Psalms translation came out. He wanted to> use my footnotes in my
          > translation of the LXX and I agreed to> allowing him to use my footnotes.
          > However, CTOS has to make the final> decision on this. I can't wait to see
          > his final product as the> samples that he has allowed me to review are very,
          > very good.> >> > Peter A. Papoutsis> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ---->
          > > From: criostoir1971 <criostoir1971@...>> > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:56:45 PM> >
          > Subject: [lxx] New upcoming LXX translation> >> >> > I just received the
          > latest issue of "Orthodox Tradition," published> by> > the Center for
          > Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, and it lists the> > following title as a
          > forthcoming publication:> >> > "The Septuagint: Old Testament and
          > Apocrypha," complied by Michael> > Asser, to be published in six volumes:
          > the Pentateuch, followed by> the> > Historical Books (in 2 volumes), the
          > Poetical Books, and the Minor> and> > Major Prophets (in 2 volumes).> >> >
          > Given the consistently high quality of translations produced by the> > CTOS,
          > this should be an excellent reference for all Orthodox> > Christians.> >> >
          > In Christ,> > Chris> >> >> >> >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message
          > have been removed]> >>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
          >
          > http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • andrew fincke
          Dear Far, 1) It is NOT true that LXX and Masoretic represent separate traditions ; 2) Unlike English most names in Hebrew mean something - although,
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 10, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Far,
            1) It is NOT true "that LXX and Masoretic represent separate traditions";
            2) Unlike English most names in Hebrew mean something - although, admittedly, "God is strong" is not a very profound statement.
            3) 1 Samuel 22:6 tells us that "Saul sat in Giva' under the tree in Rama". "Giva'" means "hill" in Hebrew and is a synonym of "Rama" (lit. "high place"). LXX thus has Saul sitting in "a hill (BOUNW)under the tree in RAMA". Is that a "separate tradition"? Hebrew and LXX agree in leaving it to the reader to decide whether Saul sat "in a hill" or "in a place called Hill".
            Andrew Fincke



            To: lxx@yahoogroups.comFrom: far.talk@...: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:32:37 -0400Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation




            I am not familiar with that form of "Ezekiel" (Yechezkeyl). One of thereasons for using LXX is to see what it witnesses to. If it is true that LXXand Masoretic represent separate traditions, then it might be misleading toconflate them in regard to proper nouns and the linguistic information thatthe LXX may preserve would be lost.On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:52 PM, andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:>> Dear Far,> Not sure what you're getting at. "Ezekiel"'s a tongue-twister, but try> saying it in Hebrew! "Yechezkeyl" means "God is strong", but LXX Éåæåêéçë> (YEZEKIHL) is a mystery to me. It captures the rhythm of the Hebrew but> displaces a syllable. Any ideas?> Andrew Fincke>>>> To: lxx@yahoogroups.comFrom: far.talk@...: Tue, 2 Sep 2008> 11:52:47 -0400Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation>>>>> If they changed the names to match the Medieval pointings of the> Massoretes,wouldn't that mean altering the base text of LXX and> anachronistic, too?On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Fr. John Whiteford <> frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:> I am looking forward to seeing it as> well, and expect that it will be> the most useable translation for> liturgical purposes available, but> unfortunatley, the translation (at least> judging from the Psalter,> which is available online) opted to use the Greek> form of names for> places and persons, rather than the forms that have been> in standard> use in English for the past 4 centuries+.>> It makes such a> translation far less useful when you have names> like "Nabuchodnosor..." and> "Elliseus", that are not going to be> found in your standard Bible> Dictionary or encyclopedia. We have> English translations of these names,> and it makes little sense to use> strange forms that most people are> unfamiliar with, and will not be> able to look up in any standard texts.>>> The NETS translation is even worse, in that respect, I should add.>> -Fr.> John Whiteford>>> --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%40yahoogroups.com>,> Peter Papoutsis> <papoutsis1@...> wrote:> >> > I am very well aware of> this as I was communicating with Michael on> this subject after his LXX> Psalms translation came out. He wanted to> use my footnotes in my> translation of the LXX and I agreed to> allowing him to use my footnotes.> However, CTOS has to make the final> decision on this. I can't wait to see> his final product as the> samples that he has allowed me to review are very,> very good.> >> > Peter A. Papoutsis> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ---->> > From: criostoir1971 <criostoir1971@...>> > To: lxx@yahoogroups.com <lxx%> 40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 3:56:45 PM> >> Subject: [lxx] New upcoming LXX translation> >> >> > I just received the> latest issue of "Orthodox Tradition," published> by> > the Center for> Traditionalist Orthodox Studies, and it lists the> > following title as a> forthcoming publication:> >> > "The Septuagint: Old Testament and> Apocrypha," complied by Michael> > Asser, to be published in six volumes:> the Pentateuch, followed by> the> > Historical Books (in 2 volumes), the> Poetical Books, and the Minor> and> > Major Prophets (in 2 volumes).> >> >> Given the consistently high quality of translations produced by the> > CTOS,> this should be an excellent reference for all Orthodox> > Christians.> >> >> In Christ,> > Chris> >> >> >> >> >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message> have been removed]> >>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been> removed]>>>>>> __________________________________________________________> Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.>> http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Photo_Gallery_082008>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>> ------------------------------------>> Yahoo! Groups Links>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            _________________________________________________________________
            See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life.
            http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ashley Crane
            Dear Far and Andrew, P967 LXX Ezekiel represents a different tradition than MT Ezekiel Ashley _____ From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 25, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Far and Andrew,



              P967 LXX Ezekiel represents a different tradition than MT Ezekiel





              Ashley







              _____

              From: lxx@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lxx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of andrew
              fincke
              Sent: Thursday, 11 September 2008 2:13 AM
              To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation




              Dear Far,
              1) It is NOT true "that LXX and Masoretic represent separate traditions";
              Andrew Fincke

              To: lxx@yahoogroups. <mailto:lxx%40yahoogroups.comFrom> comFrom:
              far.talk@gmail. <mailto:far.talk%40gmail.comDate> comDate: Wed, 10 Sep 2008
              13:32:37 -0400Subject: Re: [lxx] Re: New upcoming LXX translation

              I am not familiar with that form of "Ezekiel" (Yechezkeyl). One of
              thereasons for using LXX is to see what it witnesses to. If it is true that
              LXXand Masoretic represent separate traditions, then it might be misleading
              toconflate them in regard to proper nouns and the linguistic information
              thatthe LXX may preserve would be lost.









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.