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Public Domain Accented Septuagint Text

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  • Andrew
    Greetings LXX group, Can anyone point me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament in text format (*.txt, *.doc, *.html ...), which may be
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 28, 2008
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      Greetings LXX group,

      Can anyone point me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek
      Testament in text format (*.txt, *.doc, *.html ...), which may be freely
      published, formated, copied, corrected, etc.

      Thank you.
      Andrew
    • Dave Nielsen
      Andrew- Tyndale House has this resource as well as many others linked via their website: http://www.tyndalehouse.co.uk/links_Biblical.htm I hope this helps.
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 28, 2008
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        Andrew-

        Tyndale House has this resource as well as many others linked via their
        website:

        http://www.tyndalehouse.co.uk/links_Biblical.htm

        I hope this helps.

        -Dave



        On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Andrew <andrew@...> wrote:

        > Greetings LXX group,
        >
        > Can anyone point me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek
        > Testament in text format (*.txt, *.doc, *.html ...), which may be freely
        > published, formated, copied, corrected, etc.
        >
        > Thank you.
        > Andrew
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew
        Thank you Dave, for this very rich website, but it does not contains nor links Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament. Here is some information about my
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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          Thank you Dave, for this very rich website, but it does not contains nor links
          Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.

          Here is some information about my research.
          1. Searching the Internet for Public Domain Septuagint Text, I found only one
          such stated text, which is Ralph Hancock's Zipped MS Word 97 file. from
          http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~hancock/antioch.htm.

          The text is described by http://www.kalvesmaki.com to be based on CCAT,

          but when I wrote to mister Hancock about his text, he answered the
          following: "... It (the text) was prepared from an old electronic original
          distributed in the public domain as a BetaCode text file in the early
          1990s ..... I have never seen the CCATT edition put out by the University of
          Pennsylvania, but if it resembles ours I am not surprised. We are dealing
          with an identical text. All participants in this project are happy to have
          produced a public domain document, and don't expect the source to be credited
          in any future use."

          Then I wrote three times again, asking him about the old electronic original
          BetaCode text, but mister Hancock said: 'Don't look a gift horse in the
          mouth.'
          This answer made me suspicious about the source of his text. Furthermore I saw
          that there is other copyrighted text Nestle/Aland New Testament on the
          download section of his website.

          2. I also found an Accented Orthodox Greek Old Testaments placed on
          http://www.myriobiblos.gr/bible/ot/default.asp and on other Orthodox sites,
          but when I asked with e-mails about the Copyright of the texts, there was no
          answer.

          Can anyone enlighten me about the copyright license of the Orthodox texts and
          the Hancock's version, and assure me that the texts of mister Hancock are
          really Public Domain, produced from a legal public domain sources.

          Or, direct me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.

          Respectfully
          Andrew
        • Peter Papoutsis
          The Orthodox LXX text is Published currently by two organizations. The First being the Apostoliki Diakonia with is the publishing and evangilation arm of the
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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            The Orthodox LXX text is Published currently by two organizations. The First being the Apostoliki Diakonia with is the publishing and evangilation arm of the Greek Orthodox Church of Greece. The Second is the ZOE BROTHERHOOD which although their members are pious Greek Orthodox Christians and members of the Church of Greece are NOT affiliated with them. Both text, minus the footnotes, are exactly the same. The footnotes are 95% the same with the ZOE BROTHERHOOD LXX text, which still has the better notes.
            The LXX text used by the Church of Greece is Alfred Rahlf's Septuaginta text made to conform as much as possible to traditional Orthodox renderings of the LXX as found in the writings of the Fathers and the Lucianic LXX text tradition, which was highly favored by many important Church Fathers such as St. John Chrystostom and others from Antioch and its shere of influence, as well as the liturgical readings of the LXX in the Church. The LXX text was modified by Archmandrite Vambas with latter modifications and revisions done by professors and clergy from the University of Athens and Thessaloniki. Thus, this is the Modified-Rahlf's Septuaginta text is the Official LXX text of the Church of Greece and the Patriarch of Constandinople. However, only the Church of Greece has officially endorsed it by placing a Holy Synodial seal on the text. The Patriarchate has only put an official seal/endorsement on the New Testament Text. This makes sense as the LXX was
            corrected, modified and revised in Greece and the NT was modified, corrected and revised in Constandinople.
            However, the Church of Greece's LXX text is NOT the LXX text used most often on the Holy Mountain. The Moscow edition of 1821 is the prefered LXX text which is mostly a re-print of Codex Alexandrinus. The Church of Greece LXX text is the better LXX text, but the Monks received this text sortly after the Ottoman yoke was lifted and have used it ever since. The monks are very conservative to say the least. This is not to say that many monks on Mt. Athos don't use the Synod LXX text, because they do, its just that the majority of monks do not. In any event for your purposes it does not matter as the Moscow LXX text is nowhere to be found on the net.
            Here is the Apostoliki Diakonia link to the LXX text of the Church of Greece, which is the ecclesiastically approved LXX text of the Greek Church: http://www.apostoliki-diakonia.gr/bible/bible.asp?contents=old_testament/contents.asp&main=OldTes
            and here is a link to the various liturgical books that contain the various LXX readings in Orthodox litugical works:  http://analogion.net/glt/
            I hope these links help you. take care.
             
            Peter A. Papoutsis
             
            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Andrew <andrew@...>
            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:38:31 AM
            Subject: Re: [lxx] Public Domain Accented Septuagint Text


            Thank you Dave, for this very rich website, but it does not contains nor links
            Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.

            Here is some information about my research.
            1. Searching the Internet for Public Domain Septuagint Text, I found only one
            such stated text, which is Ralph Hancock's Zipped MS Word 97 file. from
            http://www.users dircon.co. uk/~hancock/ antioch.htm.

            The text is described by http://www.kalvesma ki.com to be based on CCAT,

            but when I wrote to mister Hancock about his text, he answered the
            following: "... It (the text) was prepared from an old electronic original
            distributed in the public domain as a BetaCode text file in the early
            1990s ..... I have never seen the CCATT edition put out by the University of
            Pennsylvania, but if it resembles ours I am not surprised. We are dealing
            with an identical text. All participants in this project are happy to have
            produced a public domain document, and don't expect the source to be credited
            in any future use."

            Then I wrote three times again, asking him about the old electronic original
            BetaCode text, but mister Hancock said: 'Don't look a gift horse in the
            mouth.'
            This answer made me suspicious about the source of his text. Furthermore I saw
            that there is other copyrighted text Nestle/Aland New Testament on the
            download section of his website.

            2. I also found an Accented Orthodox Greek Old Testaments placed on
            http://www.myriobib los.gr/bible/ ot/default. asp and on other Orthodox sites,
            but when I asked with e-mails about the Copyright of the texts, there was no
            answer.

            Can anyone enlighten me about the copyright license of the Orthodox texts and
            the Hancock's version, and assure me that the texts of mister Hancock are
            really Public Domain, produced from a legal public domain sources.

            Or, direct me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.

            Respectfully
            Andrew





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joel Kalvesmaki
            Dear Andrew, Thanks for raising this question. ... Much of your question falls properly in issues of copyright. My understanding, from several years in
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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              Dear Andrew,

              Thanks for raising this question.

              > Furthermore I saw
              > that there is other copyrighted text Nestle/Aland New Testament on the
              > download section of his website.

              > 2. I also found an Accented Orthodox Greek Old Testaments placed on
              > http://www.myriobiblos.gr/bible/ot/default.asp and on other Orthodox sites,
              > but when I asked with e-mails about the Copyright of the texts, there was no
              > answer.
              >
              > Can anyone enlighten me about the copyright license of the Orthodox texts
              > and the Hancock's version, and assure me that the texts of mister Hancock are
              > really Public Domain, produced from a legal public domain sources.

              Much of your question falls properly in issues of copyright. My
              understanding, from several years in publishing (although I have no
              legal expertise), is that U.S./British copyright law is more lenient
              than European. In U.S. law all texts written before 1923 are in the
              public domain. So the main text featured in a modern critical edition
              of a public domain text is itself in the public domain. The apparatus
              critici and accompanying material, probably not. It is my impression,
              based on anecdotal evidence, that European publishers and editors
              claim copyright over even the main text produced, since they consider
              it an original work. This POV would not fly in a U.S. court. See
              Bridgeman v. Corel (1999, 10th circuit court of appeals), regarding a
              good parallel, images.

              For those of us in the U.S. working on the LXX and related ancient
              literature, this is not much of an issue, especially since we make no
              money. As far as the main text goes, all versions of the LXX in the
              Greek are in the public domain. But it may be a gray area in other
              parts of the world. Do any other list members have insights to add to
              this?

              Mind you, the above does not constitute legal advice, just one
              person's understanding.

              Best wishes,

              jk
              --
              Joel Kalvesmaki
              http://www.kalvesmaki.com
            • Kevin P. Edgecomb
              ... Kevin writes: Peter, do you know of a source for a reprint of the Moscow edition of Alexandrinus? I was looking for a copy, but couldn t find it. My
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                Quoting Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>:
                > However, the Church of Greece's LXX text is NOT the LXX text used
                > most often on the Holy Mountain. The Moscow edition of 1821 is the
                > prefered LXX text which is mostly a re-print of Codex Alexandrinus.

                Kevin writes:
                Peter, do you know of a source for a reprint of the Moscow edition of
                Alexandrinus? I was looking for a copy, but couldn't find it.

                My regards,
                Kevin P. Edgecomb
                Berkeley, California
              • Robert Kraft
                The Tyndale site does have Greek LXX with accents -- based on Rahlfs text in a zip file, linked from the index file
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                  The Tyndale site does have "Greek LXX with accents -- based on Rahlfs'
                  text" in a zip file, linked from the index file
                  http://www.tyndalehouse.co.uk/Fonts/index.htm --
                  what its history is, I don't know.

                  The CCAT/CATSS materials also contain accented LXX/OG texts, although we
                  were asked by the German Bible Society (copyright holders on Rahlfs) to
                  stop distributing the "simple" text by diskette and to remove it from
                  the internet when they decided to do their own package (previously we
                  were permitted to distribute it freely, for "private" use). Still, the
                  text is extractable from the CCAT/CATSS Parallel Hebrew/Greek files, and
                  the Morph files, and is also available in the part of the Variants files
                  that have been released -- see
                  http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/catss.html

                  All this is for "private" use; commercial uses require permission
                  (contractual arrangements). "Public domain" is a slippery term in these
                  new and changing electronic worlds.

                  Bob Kraft, UPenn, for CCAT/CATSS



                  Andrew wrote:
                  > Thank you Dave, for this very rich website, but it does not contains nor links
                  > Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.
                  >
                  > Here is some information about my research.
                  > 1. Searching the Internet for Public Domain Septuagint Text, I found only one
                  > such stated text, which is Ralph Hancock's Zipped MS Word 97 file. from
                  > http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~hancock/antioch.htm.
                  >
                  > The text is described by http://www.kalvesmaki.com to be based on CCAT,
                  >
                  > but when I wrote to mister Hancock about his text, he answered the
                  > following: "... It (the text) was prepared from an old electronic original
                  > distributed in the public domain as a BetaCode text file in the early
                  > 1990s ..... I have never seen the CCATT edition put out by the University of
                  > Pennsylvania, but if it resembles ours I am not surprised. We are dealing
                  > with an identical text. All participants in this project are happy to have
                  > produced a public domain document, and don't expect the source to be credited
                  > in any future use."
                  >
                  > Then I wrote three times again, asking him about the old electronic original
                  > BetaCode text, but mister Hancock said: 'Don't look a gift horse in the
                  > mouth.'
                  > This answer made me suspicious about the source of his text. Furthermore I saw
                  > that there is other copyrighted text Nestle/Aland New Testament on the
                  > download section of his website.
                  >
                  > 2. I also found an Accented Orthodox Greek Old Testaments placed on
                  > http://www.myriobiblos.gr/bible/ot/default.asp and on other Orthodox sites,
                  > but when I asked with e-mails about the Copyright of the texts, there was no
                  > answer.
                  >
                  > Can anyone enlighten me about the copyright license of the Orthodox texts and
                  > the Hancock's version, and assure me that the texts of mister Hancock are
                  > really Public Domain, produced from a legal public domain sources.
                  >
                  > Or, direct me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.
                  >
                  > Respectfully
                  > Andrew
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                  Joel, I think it would only the case that the text in *facsimiles* is in the public domain. All the standard critical editions utilize a text created and
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                    Joel, I think it would only the case that the text in *facsimiles* is
                    in the public domain.

                    All the standard critical editions utilize a text created and
                    copyrighted by the editors, including the Rahlfs and Goettingen
                    Septuagints, and the UBS and Nestle-Aland New Testaments. The
                    original text of Rahlfs may not have had its copyright renewed, but I
                    doubt it. In any case, the very recently corrected Septuaginta Editio
                    Altera should be preferred for a complete online text. But that won't
                    happen without asking for and obtaining a copyright release. It's
                    easy enough to write and ask.

                    Regards,
                    Kevin P. Edgecomb
                    Berkeley, California
                  • andrew fincke
                    I ve got the next best thing in my hand, Kevin: Swete s Old Testament in Greek (volume I), which has Vaticanus up top and Alexandrinus variants in the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                      I've got the next best thing in my hand, Kevin: Swete's Old Testament in Greek (volume I), which has Vaticanus up top and Alexandrinus variants in the apparatus unencumbered by anything else.
                      Andrew Fincke



                      To: lxx@yahoogroups.comFrom: kevin@...: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:56:55 -0700Subject: Re: [lxx] Public Domain Accented Septuagint Text




                      Quoting Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@...>:> However, the Church of Greece's LXX text is NOT the LXX text used > most often on the Holy Mountain. The Moscow edition of 1821 is the > prefered LXX text which is mostly a re-print of Codex Alexandrinus.Kevin writes:Peter, do you know of a source for a reprint of the Moscow edition of Alexandrinus? I was looking for a copy, but couldn't find it.My regards,Kevin P. EdgecombBerkeley, California





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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Peter Papoutsis
                      Kevin writes: Peter, do you know of a source for a reprint of the Moscow edition of Alexandrinus? I was looking for a copy, but couldn t find it. Answer:  
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                        Kevin writes:
                        Peter, do you know of a source for a reprint of the Moscow edition of
                        Alexandrinus? I was looking for a copy, but couldn't find it.
                        Answer:   Kevin, the only place I know two editions of it exist is at Holy Transfirguration Monastery
                                        in Brookline, Mass. These two editions are original book bindings, but I do not know of
                                        any copies in either hard copy or on the internet. However try this place:
                                                   
                        Richard Owen Roberts Booksellers(630) 752-4122
                        139 N Washington St, Wheaton, IL 60187  
                        I kid you not I found an original, perfectly bound, Huge, AND I MEAN HUGE, copy of a Codex Vaticanus with a beautiful lithograph of the LXX being presented by the Seventy translators to King Ptolemy in the front of the book. It was printed in Europe by a Catholic Monastic order that now escapes me, and the Codex was going for $800.00. This was three years ago. I'm sure its over $800.00 now.
                        Check with them about the 1821 Moscow Edition or for a Grabe Codex Alexandrinus, which is what the Moscow edition basically is. If any one has it its Richard Owen Roberts Booksellers. In fact, I distinctly remember looking at at Grabes Codex Alexandrinus, which was in several perfectly bound volumes and did not even dare to ask the price. Good luck.  
                         
                        Peter A. Papoutsis
                         
                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Kevin P. Edgecomb <kevin@...>
                        To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 1:56:55 PM
                        Subject: Re: [lxx] Public Domain Accented Septuagint Text


                        Quoting Peter Papoutsis <papoutsis1@yahoo. com>:
                        > However, the Church of Greece's LXX text is NOT the LXX text used
                        > most often on the Holy Mountain. The Moscow edition of 1821 is the
                        > prefered LXX text which is mostly a re-print of Codex Alexandrinus.

                        Kevin writes:
                        Peter, do you know of a source for a reprint of the Moscow edition of
                        Alexandrinus? I was looking for a copy, but couldn't find it.

                        My regards,
                        Kevin P. Edgecomb
                        Berkeley, California





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                        Thanks very much, Peter. It s a shame this is so hard to find! It really should be more available. Regards, Kevin P. Edgecomb Berkeley, California
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                          Thanks very much, Peter. It's a shame this is so hard to find! It
                          really should be more available.

                          Regards,
                          Kevin P. Edgecomb
                          Berkeley, California
                        • Louis Sorenson
                          Look at Biola s website - the Unbound Bible. http://www.unboundbible.org/index.cfm?method=downloads.showDownloadMain. The file titled Greek OT: LXX [A]
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 29, 2008
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                            Look at Biola's website - the Unbound Bible. http://www.unboundbible.org/index.cfm?method=downloads.showDownloadMain.
                            The file titled Greek OT: LXX [A] Accented, Roots and Parsing is what you want.

                            Louis Sorenson
                            To: lxx@yahoogroups.com
                            From: andrew@...
                            Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:38:31 +0300
                            Subject: Re: [lxx] Public Domain Accented Septuagint Text




















                            Thank you Dave, for this very rich website, but it does not contains nor links

                            Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.



                            Here is some information about my research.

                            1. Searching the Internet for Public Domain Septuagint Text, I found only one

                            such stated text, which is Ralph Hancock's Zipped MS Word 97 file. from

                            http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~hancock/antioch.htm.



                            The text is described by http://www.kalvesmaki.com to be based on CCAT,



                            but when I wrote to mister Hancock about his text, he answered the

                            following: "... It (the text) was prepared from an old electronic original

                            distributed in the public domain as a BetaCode text file in the early

                            1990s ..... I have never seen the CCATT edition put out by the University of

                            Pennsylvania, but if it resembles ours I am not surprised. We are dealing

                            with an identical text. All participants in this project are happy to have

                            produced a public domain document, and don't expect the source to be credited

                            in any future use."



                            Then I wrote three times again, asking him about the old electronic original

                            BetaCode text, but mister Hancock said: 'Don't look a gift horse in the

                            mouth.'

                            This answer made me suspicious about the source of his text. Furthermore I saw

                            that there is other copyrighted text Nestle/Aland New Testament on the

                            download section of his website.



                            2. I also found an Accented Orthodox Greek Old Testaments placed on

                            http://www.myriobiblos.gr/bible/ot/default.asp and on other Orthodox sites,

                            but when I asked with e-mails about the Copyright of the texts, there was no

                            answer.



                            Can anyone enlighten me about the copyright license of the Orthodox texts and

                            the Hancock's version, and assure me that the texts of mister Hancock are

                            really Public Domain, produced from a legal public domain sources.



                            Or, direct me to a website with Accented Public Domain Old Greek Testament.



                            Respectfully

                            Andrew






















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                            With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                            Thanks very much, Andrew. I knew about Swete, but really want the full continuous text, warts and all. It looks like it s time for an antiquarian book hunt,
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 30, 2008
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                              Thanks very much, Andrew. I knew about Swete, but really want the
                              full continuous text, warts and all. It looks like it's time for an
                              antiquarian book hunt, as Peter suggested!

                              Regards,
                              Kevin P. Edgecomb
                              Berkeley, California
                            • Andrew
                              Thank you very much for your valuable posts. Probably, it can be generally accepted, that all printed texts and manuscripts written before 1923 are in the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
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                                Thank you very much for your valuable posts.

                                Probably, it can be generally accepted, that all printed texts and manuscripts
                                written before 1923 are in the public domain. Indeed we are speaking about
                                very ancient texts. But I see that there is also a Copyright over the digital
                                products, although they are produced from public domain sources. (When I make
                                a photograph of a tree, that shot is my property, and the usage of the shot
                                depends on my will. The same is with the texts, specially when it comes to
                                inputing/transcribing the texts by the keyboard to digital form, which may
                                take many years of hard working.)

                                When I place some texts on my website, it is easy to remove them if someone
                                asks this. But if I have worked for 15 years making corrections to the text,
                                such situation will trouble my life and work. This is the main point of my
                                posts about the Public Domain versions. In these cases the copyrighted bible
                                texts are unusable for many of us.

                                Some notes:
                                1. Public Domain = No copyright.
                                (Once the term of a copyright has expired, the formerly copyrighted work
                                enters the public domain and may be freely used or exploited by anyone. The
                                term indicates that these materials are therefore "public property", and
                                available for anyone to use for any purpose.)
                                2. All known web texts (Septuagint) cannot be freely corrected, modified and
                                published.
                                3. All available digital texts are copyrighted, except Hancock's, but this
                                cannot be verified.
                                4. All are using Rahlfs. There is no other text. Even the LXX text used by the
                                Church of Greece is Alfred Rahlfs Septuaginta.
                                5. Maybe even the copyright of the original text of Rahlfs is doubtful.
                                6. The CCAT/CATSS text is not Public Domain, and maybe not permitted for
                                distribution. And the meaning of "private" to this publicly used text is
                                questionable? Complicated situation.
                                7. The http://www.tyndalehouse.co.uk/Fonts/index.htm text is Hancock's.
                                7. The transcription of all the texts of the bible by the keyboard is very
                                difficult work, which takes about 15-25 years. (Transcribing and
                                Proofreading).
                                9. If I want to publish one very old manuscript called the "ORIGINAL" :), then
                                I need to use, modify and publish some non copyrighted text. The copyrighted
                                is unusable in this case.
                                10. It's impossible to OCR (Optical Character Recognition) classical Greek
                                anyway.
                                11. God bless you :)

                                I will be thankful for your corrections and clarifications.

                                Respectfully
                                Andrew
                              • andrew fincke
                                Dear Andrew, All are using Rahlfs ???? I doubt it. I use Brooke-McLean, Old Testament in Greek, II/1, which came out in 1927; and I don t hear the police
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 1, 2008
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                                  Dear Andrew,
                                  "All are using Rahlfs"???? I doubt it. I use Brooke-McLean, Old Testament in Greek, II/1, which came out in 1927; and I don't hear the police knocking at the door. Of course, I don't use the text uncritically, because even they (B and M) don't stick to Vaticanus where the going gets tough - e.g. 2 Samuel 2:5-13, where a mouse ate a corner of the page, and they fill in from Alexandrinus. Or 2 Samuel 17:19, where Vaticanus: EGNWQH (for EGNWSQH "was known") was to repulsive to include. Get a hold of a facsimile - there are a number on the market (several from the 1800's) - and wave it before the judge at your plagiarism trial. You're going to have a tough time convincing me that Smend's invented ETEROKLINWS at 1 Chronicles 12:34 made it to the Bibles of the Greek Orthodox Church.
                                  Andrew Fincke



                                  To: lxx@yahoogroups.comFrom: andrew@...: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:16:52 +0300Subject: Re: [lxx] Public Domain Accented Septuagint Text




                                  Thank you very much for your valuable posts.Probably, it can be generally accepted, that all printed texts and manuscripts written before 1923 are in the public domain. Indeed we are speaking about very ancient texts. But I see that there is also a Copyright over the digital products, although they are produced from public domain sources. (When I make a photograph of a tree, that shot is my property, and the usage of the shot depends on my will. The same is with the texts, specially when it comes to inputing/transcribing the texts by the keyboard to digital form, which may take many years of hard working.)When I place some texts on my website, it is easy to remove them if someone asks this. But if I have worked for 15 years making corrections to the text, such situation will trouble my life and work. This is the main point of my posts about the Public Domain versions. In these cases the copyrighted bible texts are unusable for many of us.Some notes:1. Public Domain = No copyright.(Once the term of a copyright has expired, the formerly copyrighted work enters the public domain and may be freely used or exploited by anyone. The term indicates that these materials are therefore "public property", and available for anyone to use for any purpose.)2. All known web texts (Septuagint) cannot be freely corrected, modified and published.3. All available digital texts are copyrighted, except Hancock's, but this cannot be verified.4. All are using Rahlfs. There is no other text. Even the LXX text used by the Church of Greece is Alfred Rahlfs Septuaginta.5. Maybe even the copyright of the original text of Rahlfs is doubtful.6. The CCAT/CATSS text is not Public Domain, and maybe not permitted for distribution. And the meaning of "private" to this publicly used text is questionable? Complicated situation.7. The http://www.tyndalehouse.co.uk/Fonts/index.htm text is Hancock's.7. The transcription of all the texts of the bible by the keyboard is very difficult work, which takes about 15-25 years. (Transcribing and Proofreading).9. If I want to publish one very old manuscript called the "ORIGINAL" :), then I need to use, modify and publish some non copyrighted text. The copyrighted is unusable in this case.10. It's impossible to OCR (Optical Character Recognition) classical Greek anyway.11. God bless you :)I will be thankful for your corrections and clarifications.RespectfullyAndrew





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                                • finckean
                                  Here s how it works, Andrew! At 1 Sam 9:24 we re told that the cook did something to the thigh of the animal that Saul was about to eat. According to Rahlfs,
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 5, 2008
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                                    Here's how it works, Andrew!
                                    At 1 Sam 9:24 we're told that the cook did something to the thigh of
                                    the animal that Saul was about to eat. According to Rahlfs, which -
                                    according to you - "everyone uses" - he elevated it. That is he
                                    UYWSEN it. Taylor's Analytical Lexicon to the Septuagint, p. 437
                                    tells us that that is the first aorist active inidcative third person
                                    singular of the word UYOW. But Rahlfs has a note that reads UYWSEN
                                    Gra.] HYHSEN BO, HREN L. Now "Gra." is short for John Ernest Grabe
                                    and specifically his four-volume Septuaginta, that appeared between
                                    1707 and 1720. Grabe died in 1712, and the volume with 1 Samuel was
                                    the last to appear, edited by William Wigin. "BO" abbreviates Codex
                                    Vaticanus and manuscripts of the hexaplaric recension (thus O for
                                    Origen). Taylor, p. 219 tells us that HYHSEN is the first aorist
                                    active indicative third person singular of EFW "cook". So the
                                    cook "cooked" the thigh. But "L", that is the Lucianic group, has
                                    HREN; and according to Taylor that is the first aorist active
                                    indicative third person singular of AIRW "took". "The cook took the
                                    thigh". So where did Grabe get "elevated" (UYWSEN)? The Penn CCAT
                                    file developed by Taylor tells us that the uncial N has that
                                    reading. But that's an error, since both critical editions of
                                    Vaticanus, that of Holmes-Parsons and that of Brooke-McLean, agree
                                    that N has HYHSEN KAI HREN "he cooked and took". But Holmes-Parson
                                    adds: "UYWSEN in charact. minore Alex." or "Codex Alexandrinus has
                                    the word in small letters", something that escaped the attention of
                                    both Swete, when he did his Old Testament in Greek (Vaticanus with
                                    Alexandrinus variants, 1895) and Brooke-McLean (Vaticanus critical
                                    edition with a broad range of variants, same title, II,1 1927)
                                    critical edition of Vaticanusreading. To make a long story short,
                                    Andrew, you're like the man who grabbed the stick and it bore a hole
                                    in his hand. Rahlfs is the stick before which you stand in awe from
                                    citing, or copying. In fact it's loaded with all kinds of rocks and
                                    pebbles which instead of supporting you when you hop on them, sink
                                    into the mud and turn to nothing. Rahlfs is just one step in a long
                                    process of generation (degeneration?) of the printed Septuagint
                                    text. Even NETS is wrong when it says: "And the cook had boiled"
                                    with footnote "taken up = RA", since the Greek word in Rahlfs, which
                                    has practically no manuscript support, means "elevated", and "taken
                                    up" is the L reading, which Rahlfs relegates to the apparatus.
                                    Andrew Fincke
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