Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Psalm 37:2 LXX

Expand Messages
  • stephen_r1937
    Psalm 37:2 = MT Ps. 38:3 contains the usual two parallel cola; Brenton translates For thy weapons are fixed in me, and thou hast pressed thy hand heavily upon
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 30, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Psalm 37:2 = MT Ps. 38:3 contains the usual two parallel cola; Brenton
      translates "For thy weapons are fixed in me, and thou hast pressed thy
      hand heavily upon me'.

      The Hebrew uses the same verb in both cola, _nht_, the _h_ dotted.
      Both LXX & Peshitta employ two different verbs. The second in the LXX,
      episthrizw, seems unproblematic. The first is empagaomai (enempaghsan,
      1st aorist, 3rd person plural), and it puzzles me. Liddell-Scott tells
      us that _pagaomai_ means 'to wash in a spring' (Doric _paga_ = Attic
      _phgh_), with particular reference to the oracular spring at Dodona.

      This seems like an odd thing to attribute to the arrows of the Lord;
      the likening of the arrows sinking into the narrator to someone
      bathing in a spring is rather odd, to say the least.

      I put it before this list in the hope that a better Hellenist than I
      can shed some light on it.

      Stephen
    • mike karoules
      Hello folks, I have a general question.    Is is okay to ask where I can go online to check out sources that tell or document  how much the  church
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello folks,
        I have a general question.    Is is okay to ask where I can go online to check out sources that tell or document  how much the  church fathers of the 1st and early 2nd century  used the Septuagint bible.??   I mean was their main source for scriptural quotations more from the MT  or the Septuagint??  Anyone that can give me even a general answer would be good.  I just curious to know at what length they employed the Greek Old Testament .  Was this their translation?  How accurate were their Old Testament quotations in their letters.  Thanks folks.
         
        Cordially,
         
        Mike Karoules
        Metro-Atlanta, Georgia



















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • zelenbrook
        ... ________________________________________________________________ Dear Stephen, The scriptures say, Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 11, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
          >
          > Psalm 37:2 = MT Ps. 38:3 contains the usual two parallel cola; Brenton
          > translates "For thy weapons are fixed in me, and thou hast pressed thy
          > hand heavily upon me'.

          > This seems like an odd thing to attribute to the arrows of the Lord;
          > the likening of the arrows sinking into the narrator to someone
          > bathing in a spring is rather odd, to say the least.
          >
          > I put it before this list in the hope that a better Hellenist than I
          > can shed some light on it.
          >
          > Stephen
          ________________________________________________________________
          Dear Stephen,
          The scriptures say, 'Put on the whole armour of God, that you may
          be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.'
          (Ephesians 6:12)
          "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
          against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
          against spiritual wickedness in high places."
          14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having
          on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the
          preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of
          faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of
          the wicked.
          And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit,
          which is the word of God: "

          And coupled with this:
          Christ said,"John 4:14
          "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never
          thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of
          water springing up into everlasting life."
          Compare this to what was prophesied in Isaiah:

          Isaiah 58:11
          And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in
          drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered
          garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not."
          ~Compare SONG OF SOLOMON 4:12-and Isaiah 65:13 and John 6:35.

          ~Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity.~


          `
        • zelenbrook
          I just wanted to add further to my comment. It seems as though the writer of Psalms 38 has angered God, but if one looks closer at the words spoken tells me
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 11, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            I just wanted to add further to my comment.
            It seems as though the writer of Psalms 38 has angered God,
            but if one looks closer at the words spoken tells me this:
            What may appear on the surface is not what actually is.
            Let us look at these words again:
            "I am like a deaf man, who cannot hear,like a mute, who
            cannot open his mouth;
            I have become like a man who does not hear, whose mouth can
            offer no reply. ( Christ offered himself up like a silent lamb
            to the slaughter, he was sinless )
            I wait for you, O LORD; you will answer, O Lord my God.
            For I said, "Do not let them gloat or exalt themselves \over me when
            my foot slips."
            For I am about to fall, and my pain is ever with me.
            I confess my iniquity; I am troubled by my sin.

            Many are those who are my vigorous enemies;
            those who hate me without reason are numerous."
            MY COMMENT:
            (notice how he says, "I AM LIKE a deaf man, I AM LIKE a man who
            does not hear." To his contemporaries, those who expected him to
            obey their voice or commands, he appeared ito them as deaf
            because he wouldn't listen to their voice and so they condemned
            him, judging him wicked.
            yet, all the while, he waits for God;
            His God is his judge, (not men)
            He is not self righteous, he is aware of his sins and confesses them,
            not like the self righteous, pious hypocrites who elevate themselves
            and judges him 'as wicked'.
            The writer of Psalm 38 further says:
            Many are those who are my vigorous enemies;
            those who hate me without reason are numerous."
            ( so he is hated without reason)
            compare Ps 38:19 35:19; 55:3; 69:4 86:19;

            "Those who repay my good with evil slander me when I pursue what is
            good. O LORD, do not forsake me; be not far from me, O my God.
            Come quickly to help me,O Lord my Savior."

            Evidently, this person Trusts in his God,(David) he knows from
            where the water of life flows, he knows it's source.

            One must note: The hypocrite Scribes and Pharisees accused Christ
            of sinning and hanging out with sinners. They thought of him 'as an
            apostate to the Jewish religious system. If it wasn't for God's will,
            the Scribes and Pharisees would not have succeeded in killing him.
            But now, in the judgment it is they who will be ashamed when they find
            they killed 'their messiah.'

            zelenbrook~
            ________________________________________________________________
            > Dear Stephen,
            > The scriptures say, 'Put on the whole armour of God, that you may
            > be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.'
            > (Ephesians 6:12)
            > "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
            > against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
            > against spiritual wickedness in high places."
            > 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having
            > on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the
            > preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of
            > faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of
            > the wicked.
            > And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit,
            > which is the word of God: "
            >
            > And coupled with this:
            > Christ said,"John 4:14
            > "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never
            > thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of
            > water springing up into everlasting life."
            > Compare this to what was prophesied in Isaiah:
            >
            > Isaiah 58:11
            > And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in
            > drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered
            > garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not."
            > ~Compare SONG OF SOLOMON 4:12-and Isaiah 65:13 and John 6:35.
            >
            > ~Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity.~
            >
            >
            > `
            >
          • stephen_r1937
            That is all very well, but my question was about a point of grammar. When a month passed with no reply in this list, I submitted the same question elsewhere
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 11, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              That is all very well, but my question was about a point of grammar.
              When a month passed with no reply in this list, I submitted the same
              question elsewhere and got the response I needed:

              'Looking at the Greek text in Brenton and at a Greek Psalter you seem
              to have misread this verb. There is no "m" in it, and so enepaghsan is
              derived from emphgnumi (I hope I have the transliteration correct)
              which means "fix in" according to Liddell and Scott.'

              Thank you,

              Stephen


              --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "zelenbrook" <zelenbrook@...> wrote:
              >
              > I just wanted to add further to my comment.
              > It seems as though the writer of Psalms 38 has angered God,
              > but if one looks closer at the words spoken tells me this:
              > What may appear on the surface is not what actually is.
              > Let us look at these words again:
              > "I am like a deaf man, who cannot hear,like a mute, who
              > cannot open his mouth;
              > I have become like a man who does not hear, whose mouth can
              > offer no reply. ( Christ offered himself up like a silent lamb
              > to the slaughter, he was sinless )
              > I wait for you, O LORD; you will answer, O Lord my God.
              > For I said, "Do not let them gloat or exalt themselves \over me when
              > my foot slips."
              > For I am about to fall, and my pain is ever with me.
              > I confess my iniquity; I am troubled by my sin.
              >
              > Many are those who are my vigorous enemies;
              > those who hate me without reason are numerous."
              > MY COMMENT:
              > (notice how he says, "I AM LIKE a deaf man, I AM LIKE a man who
              > does not hear." To his contemporaries, those who expected him to
              > obey their voice or commands, he appeared ito them as deaf
              > because he wouldn't listen to their voice and so they condemned
              > him, judging him wicked.
              > yet, all the while, he waits for God;
              > His God is his judge, (not men)
              > He is not self righteous, he is aware of his sins and confesses them,
              > not like the self righteous, pious hypocrites who elevate themselves
              > and judges him 'as wicked'.
              > The writer of Psalm 38 further says:
              > Many are those who are my vigorous enemies;
              > those who hate me without reason are numerous."
              > ( so he is hated without reason)
              > compare Ps 38:19 35:19; 55:3; 69:4 86:19;
              >
              > "Those who repay my good with evil slander me when I pursue what is
              > good. O LORD, do not forsake me; be not far from me, O my God.
              > Come quickly to help me,O Lord my Savior."
              >
              > Evidently, this person Trusts in his God,(David) he knows from
              > where the water of life flows, he knows it's source.
              >
              > One must note: The hypocrite Scribes and Pharisees accused Christ
              > of sinning and hanging out with sinners. They thought of him 'as an
              > apostate to the Jewish religious system. If it wasn't for God's will,
              > the Scribes and Pharisees would not have succeeded in killing him.
              > But now, in the judgment it is they who will be ashamed when they find
              > they killed 'their messiah.'
              >
              > zelenbrook~
              > ________________________________________________________________
              > > Dear Stephen,
              > > The scriptures say, 'Put on the whole armour of God, that you may
              > > be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.'
              > > (Ephesians 6:12)
              > > "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
              principalities,
              > > against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
              > > against spiritual wickedness in high places."
              > > 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having
              > > on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the
              > > preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of
              > > faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of
              > > the wicked.
              > > And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit,
              > > which is the word of God: "
              > >
              > > And coupled with this:
              > > Christ said,"John 4:14
              > > "But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never
              > > thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of
              > > water springing up into everlasting life."
              > > Compare this to what was prophesied in Isaiah:
              > >
              > > Isaiah 58:11
              > > And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in
              > > drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered
              > > garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not."
              > > ~Compare SONG OF SOLOMON 4:12-and Isaiah 65:13 and John 6:35.
              > >
              > > ~Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity.~
              > >
              > >
              > > `
              > >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.