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Re: Deut 32:8

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  • JavaJedi2
    ... the previous question; though I m not sure why you have single-quotes (e.g. 30 ) in the e-mail excerpt for what is asterisk (30*) in the intro. ... I m
    Message 1 of 40 , Dec 1, 2007
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      --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, andrew fincke <finckea@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Dear Sigrid,
      > I found this item:
      > 30* = 30 + 730 85* = 85 + 130 321* = 321 + 346 343* = 343 + 344
      > in the Wevers-intro under "Recensions and MS-groups", and that answers
      the previous question; though I'm not sure why you have single-quotes
      (e.g. 30') in the e-mail excerpt for what is asterisk (30*) in the intro.
      > Andrew Fincke
      >

      I'm appreciative of these follow-up notes. I have two follow-up
      questions. I looked at the article on Deut 32:8-9 but I can't get the
      Hebrew or Greek fonts to look correct. I tried asking irefox to use
      Unicode and the result was, to use a technical IT term, funky. THe font
      family was already Palantino. So I don't know what magic thing I need to
      do to make this article display correctly. Any further suggestions?

      Second, maybe I've forgotten a sec5ion in Jellicoe, which I read many
      years ago, but I realized as I looked at the list of MSS, that my
      knowledge of LXX MSS is next to nill. That is, if you said that some NT
      variant ocurred in P45 or 1739, I would have a sense of the value of
      those MDS and how they relate to the mass of MSS available. I don't
      have a sense for the way scholars generally assess these many MSS.
      Where would be the best place to read up on that? I don't expect
      necessariuly an evaluation of every single MS, but maybe somethng that
      shows that, e.g., "Sinaiaticus is usually followed by these
      witneesse.... and it is generally thought that Sinaiticus
      represents/doesn't represent something close to the likley original
      text, whereas XYZ, followed by the MSS ., seems to have a tendency..."
      This would be analogous to talking about the Alexandrian "text type"
      compared to D for Acts. Thanks.

      Ken Litwak
    • JavaJedi2
      Thaks. That works well. I never could get my browser to display the html file correctly. Ken ... CXXVI 16 ( 7) ... ( 5) ... {Lat}Hil ... Barh 246] ... 246
      Message 40 of 40 , Dec 22, 2007
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        Thaks. That works well. I never could get my browser to display
        the html file correctly.

        Ken

        --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "finckean" <finckea@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Ken,
        > Take Sigrid's link and punch it. When the .html text comes up - with
        > its screwed up Hebrew - change the URL up top to ".pdf" at the end!
        > Then hit RETURN, and you'll get a usable version.
        > Andrew Fincke
        > --- In lxx@yahoogroups.com, "Sigrid Peterson" <petersig@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Ken,
        > > See following your question.
        > >
        > > On Nov 25, 2007 4:12 PM, JavaJedi2 <javajedi2@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > I would appreciate some help in tracking down the MSS
        > alternatives
        > > > for AGGELIWN QEOU in Deut 32:8. I have read, wthout the source
        > offering
        > > > MS ids, that early LXX MSS had "sons of God" rather than angels
        > of God.
        > > > It made an argument based upon that "change," though, especially
        > without
        > > > knowing the MSS, I don't know that we can say that a "change"
        > took place
        > > > or if it did, what the precise reason was. Does anyone have
        > comments on
        > > > this? I am just beginning to look at this, so there may be a
        > major work
        > > > on the topic that I am unaware of. Allegedly, the DSS have the
        > > > equivalent of "sons of God" but, in spite of haivng multiple
        > books with
        > > > DSS texts, I don't have nay with the biblical texts in them to be
        > able
        > > > to check this. Thanks.
        > > >
        > > > Ken Litwak
        > > >
        > > >
        > > Michael Heiser wrote about this verse and the MSS in 2001. His
        > article was
        > > published in *Bibliotheca Sacra* 2001 and is online at
        > > http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hildebrandt/OTeSources/05-
        > Deuteronomy/Text/Articles/Heiser-Deut32-BS.htm
        > >
        > >
        > > Also:
        > > This is exactly the sort of question that the CCAT/CATSS
        > Variants Project
        > > has been designed to answer. You could also simply go to the
        > Goettingen
        > > edition of Deuteronomy by Wevers, which would have the same
        > information we
        > > have. To decode the line-by-line entry of
        > >
        > > lemma ] > not in the following witnesses, with a short or long
        > list
        > > OR, where a reading is not universally attested, the following
        > > presentation is used.
        > >
        > > "υἰῶν 848 106{c} Iust <lt>Dial</> CXXI 1(1st) Or VI 60 Arm Barh
        > 246] "
        > >
        > > Decoded, one reads something like the following:
        > > The lemma υἰῶν is accepted as the best text on readings from
        > minuscule 848,
        > > minuscule 106(c), Justin Dialogue CXXI 1(1st), and so forth. Using
        > the
        > > tables of abbreviations at the end of Wevers's Introduction (see
        > below for
        > > English version), would give us the specific text of Origen for Or
        > VI 60,
        > > then the abbreviation Arm signifies the Armenian, and Barh 246
        > probably
        > > refers to Barhebraeus 246] .
        > >
        > > After the lemma, in the listings of variants, we have
        > >
        > > : variant1 with witnesses
        > > : variant2 with witnesses
        > > + plusses with witnesses
        > > homoioteleuton with witnesses
        > >
        > > it would also help to have Wevers's Introduction to Deuteronomy in
        > >
        > English<http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/biblical/lxxvar
        > /active/DT%20Intro,%20ed.%20Sigrid%20%20Peterson%20Wevers%
        > 20Introduction.html>,
        > > the link to which is (given twice)
        > >
        > http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/biblical/lxxvar/active/
        > DT%20Intro,%20ed.%20Sigrid%20%20Peterson%20Wevers%20Introduction.html.
        > > That would be useful to decode the manuscript designations.
        > >
        > > At Deuteronomy 32.8 we have the following list of variants:
        > >
        > > ~x32y8
        > > ὅτε]
        > > : οτι 72 46* 19' Phil II 145{ap}
        > > : ηνικα Phil III 83 sup ras et in mg A
        > > διεμέριζεν]
        > > : διεμελησεν Phil II 145{ap}
        > > : διεμερισεν F 72 Phil II 145{ap} Bo
        > > : διεμερησεν 72* sup ras et in mg A
        > > ὁ] > Cyr V 188 (sed hab passim) Did 866 (sed hab 566) (~) 72 246
        > (~) sup ras
        > > et in mg A
        > > ὕψιστος] > (~) 72 246 (~) sup ras et in mg A
        > > á¼"θνη] > Phil II 145{ap}
        > > + ο (~) 72 246 (~)
        > > + υψιστος (~) 72 246 (~)
        > > + <lt>gentium</> {Lat}codd 100 410 Cant{R Sin}
        > > + <lt>omnes</> Arm sup ras et in mg A
        > > ,
        > > +< και Or III 278 Aeth
        > > ὡς] > (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</> CXXVI 16 (>7) (>5) Eus III 1.21 {Lat}Hil
        > <lt>Ps</>
        > > CXLIII 6 Quodv <lt>Prom</> I 15 (>5)
        > > : οτε Nil 437
        > > : ους A V 72'{-707*} 19' <it>d</> 56'-129 W{I}-75' 30'-85-343-344
        > {txt}
        > > <it>t</> 71 28 319 509 Cyr III 380 Tht I 81{ap} IV 472 (sed hab
        > passim)
        > > : οις 707*
        > > : <lt>et</> Ruf passim
        > > + δε Cyr III 1021 sup ras et in mg A
        > > διέσπειρεν] > Tht <lt>Dt</>{ap} (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</>
        CXXVI 16 (>7)
        > (>5) Eus
        > > III 1.21 {Lat}Hil <lt>Ps</> CXLIII 6 Quodv <lt>Prom</> I 15 (>5)
        > sup ras et
        > > in mg A
        > > υἱοὺς] > Tht <lt>Dt</>{ap} (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</> CXXVI 16 (>7)
        (>5)
        > Eus III
        > > 1.21 {Lat}Hil <lt>Ps</> CXLIII 6 Quodv <lt>Prom</> I 15 (>5) sup
        > ras et in
        > > mg A
        > > Ἀδάμ] > (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</> CXXVI 16 (>7) (>5) Eus III 1.21
        {Lat}Hil
        > > <lt>Ps</> CXLIII 6 Quodv <lt>Prom</> I 15 (>5)
        > > : εδωμ Cyr IV 868 (sed hab passim) Syh{g b v} sup ras et in mg A
        > > ,
        > > +< <lt>et</> Aeth{-G}
        > > á¼"στησεν] > (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</> CXXVI 16 (>7)
        > > : εθηκεν Chr X 242 (sed hab XII 579)
        > > : εστησαν 134 sup ras et in mg A
        > > ὅρια] > (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</> CXXVI 16 (>7) sup ras et in mg A
        > > ἐθνῶν] > (>7) Hil <lt>Ps</> CXXVI 16 (>7) sup ras et in mg A
        > > κατὰ]
        > > : κατ' 58-426 Tht I 1916 sup ras et in mg A
        > > +< το 528
        > > ἀριθμὸν]
        > > : αριθμων 376 54
        > > : αρηθμων 75
        > > : αριθμους Iust <lt>Dial</> CXXXI 1(1st) sup ras et in mg A
        > > υἰῶν 848 106{c} Iust <lt>Dial</> CXXI 1(1st) Or VI 60 Arm
        Barh 246]
        > > : αγγελων rell = Ra: cf QT
        > > : αγγελον V 82 131-616 30-344{c} sup ras et in mg A
        > > θεοῦ = QT]
        > > : αυτου Chr X 242
        > > : <uιηλ>u 106{c} Iust <lt>Dial</> CXXXI 1(1st) Or VI 60 Barh
        246 (^)
        > > + υιων 426
        > > + <uιηλ>u 426 sup ras et in mg A
        > > ,
        > > ~x32y9
        > >
        > > Thanks for a problem that helps me set out some of what the
        > CCAT/CATSS
        > > Variants Project is able to do, electronically.
        > >
        > > All the best,
        > > Sigrid Peterson
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Sigrid Peterson, Ph.D.
        > > Coordinator
        > > CCAT/CATSS Variants Project
        > > Department of Religious Studies
        > > 201 Logan Hall
        > > University of Pennsylvania
        > > Philadelphia, PA 19104 USA
        > >
        > > petersig@
        > > 001-215-898-7453 (Department)
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
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