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Questions about LXX

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  • jultm777@yahoo.com
    Dear Sirs, 1. Where has Brenton taken the greek text of the Septuaginta from? If it is from the Sixtine bible (1587)-Pope Sixtus V, is it an exact copy of the
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 10, 2001
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      Dear Sirs,

      1. Where has Brenton taken the greek text of the Septuaginta from? If
      it is from the Sixtine bible (1587)-Pope Sixtus V, is it an exact
      copy of the text or a roughly similar text?

      2. Can exact reprints of the first two complete publications of the
      Septuaginta be found?:
      a. Sixtine Bible (1587)-Pope Sixtus V
      b. Complutensian Poliglot Bible (1514-1517)
      Which publications are they?

      3. Does anybody know, if it is possible for these two publications to
      be found electronically-processed, on OCR, or on microfilms.

      4. In many books and web sites it is written that the Eastern Church
      (especially the Greek) keeps the Septuaginta even nowadays as their
      Old Testament. Does anybody know which the text is and where this
      text could be found? Is this text the same as the Sixtine Bible or
      Complutensian Polyglot Bible?

      I will be grateful to everybody who would answer me. This would help
      me a lot clarify for myself some topics at first sight simple, but on
      the other hand hard to find answers to even in Internet :). God bless
      you !
    • jamtat@mailandnews.com
      ... As I understand it, Brenton s text is mainly Vaticanus, supplemented in the places where it lacks (mainly the bulk of the book of Gen and some parts of the
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 11, 2001
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        --- In lxx@y..., jultm777@y... wrote:
        > Dear Sirs,
        >
        > 1. Where has Brenton taken the greek text of the Septuaginta from?

        As I understand it, Brenton's text is mainly Vaticanus, supplemented
        in the places where it lacks (mainly the bulk of the book of Gen and
        some parts of the Psalms) by Alexandrinus. I have not heard of his
        text being identified with the Sixtine, but to speak honestly, I
        cannot say what, if any relation exists between Brenton and the
        Sixtine. Can anyone else give further clarification on this?

        > 2. Can exact reprints of the first two complete publications of the
        > Septuaginta be found?:
        > a. Sixtine Bible (1587)-Pope Sixtus V
        > b. Complutensian Poliglot Bible (1514-1517)
        > Which publications are they?

        To my knowledge, no modern reprints of these texts are available. My
        guess is that they went through more than one edition. But the most
        up-to-date editions must be quite old. Holmes-Parsons (18th-19th
        centuries) replaced all earlier critical LXX editions, so I doubt
        there are any reprints of the texts you ask about that would be newer
        than HP. Again, I am giving mostly circumstantial evidence. If anyone
        has anything more to the point to add, please do so.

        > 3. Does anybody know, if it is possible for these two publications
        to
        > be found electronically-processed, on OCR, or on microfilms.

        I sincerely doubt you'd find anything electronic. I certainly don't
        know about anything like this, but would be interested if you do find
        something. Microfilms seem much more likely to exist: I would be
        surprised if these texts are NOT available on microfilm from
        somewhere.

        > 4. In many books and web sites it is written that the Eastern
        Church
        > (especially the Greek) keeps the Septuaginta even nowadays as their
        > Old Testament. Does anybody know which the text is and where this
        > text could be found? Is this text the same as the Sixtine Bible or
        > Complutensian Polyglot Bible?

        My research in this area indicates that the Greek Church has made no
        attempt whatever at a critical text for the LXX. There was
        effectively no "Bible" in Greek Orthodox circles until the 19th
        century: Scripture passages used in worship came from either printed
        service books that contained both liturgical and scriptural matter,
        or from lectionaries. Apart from that, single books or portions of
        the OT canon circulated in manuscript copies. Entire Bibles or Old
        Testaments were virtually unkown in Greek Orthodox circles prior to
        1843, when the first (to my knowledge) OT was published. {As an
        aside, the lack of activity in Bible publishing was certainly
        fostered by the so-called "Turkish yoke", i.e., the political
        domination of Greece by the remnants of the Ottoman empire, which, of
        course, was Moslem. The Ottomans lost control over Greece just some
        few short years prior to the publication of the first LXX OT in
        Greece.} The text published in 1843 was simply a transcription of a
        single LXX manuscript - Alexandrinus. The canon of Alexandrinus was
        rearranged, supplemeted and censured to accord with Protestant
        sensibilities: some books included in Alexandrinus were simply left
        out, while the so-called deutero-canonicals were put in a separate
        section, as was the Protestant custom of the time. I don't know where
        the text of Daniel in this OT comes from, but it's not from
        Alexandrinus. This publication seems to have been done with the help
        of the SPCK and with additional help from the Orthodox Church in
        Russia. This 1843 edition of the LXX seems to have been forgotten in
        Orthodox circles now. A different LXX OT edition was undertaken in
        the early 20th century by the Zoe brotherhood. This one, like its
        predecessor in 1843, obtained the blessing of the Greek Church
        administration. It seems to be simply a reprint of Tischendorff's
        critical edition of the LXX of the mid-19th century. This qualifies
        as a sort of "official" OT of the Greek Orthodox Church. But be aware
        that its text differs somewhat from the LXX OT readings found in
        worship: the Greek Church has separate traditions for Bible and
        worship texts, and the liturgical books and lectionaries preserve
        their own LXX text tradition which is not easily identifiable with
        any of the proposed LXX text types (e.g., the Lucianic). The Zoe
        edition continues to be reprinted in Greece and is easily obtainable
        there. Rahlfs is also printed in Greece by the Greek Bible Society,
        with the introductory matter translated into modern Greek (in
        addition to retaining the English, German and Latin intros typically
        contained there). But, of course, it does not have, or seek to
        obtain, ecclesiastical sanction.

        In Russia, on the other hand, critical work on the text of the OT
        goes back quite some time. The Ostrog Bible of the 16th century
        represent perhaps the earliest of what appear to be critical attempts
        at establishing a text of the OT. It took into account the Vulgate,
        as did all subsequent editions of the OT in Russian and/or Slavonic.
        By the 18th century, Russia had begun to work with representatives of
        the western Bible Societies on publishing Scripture. A series of
        books of the OT was translated subsequently and finally an entire new
        Bible (OT and NT) was published with the blessings of Church
        authorities in the late 19th century. For the OT, it used both the
        LXX and the MT. So the picture is a bit more complicated for Russia.
        As you can see, the LXX plays a role in establishment of the text of
        the OT. But it's an oversimplification - bordering in some cases on
        distortion - to say that the Orthodox Church there used the LXX pure
        and simple. But it must be remembered that, like in the Greek Church,
        there are separate scriptural traditions for the Bible and for the
        liturgy. In Russia, the portions of Scripture read during worship are
        from liturgical texts and lectionaries, and those were ultimately
        translated from Greek exemplars straight into Slavonic without any
        sort of critical work. Modern Bible publishing seems to have had no
        effect whatever on these Scripture portions. It seems likely that the
        Sixtine and/or Complutensian played some role in Russian
        Bible "criticism" ("criticism" here meaning their establishment of
        the text for publication) of both earlier and later times. Exactly
        what role, I cannot say for certain. Can anyone clarify further on
        this matter?

        A bit of a long-winded answer, but I hope this helps you.

        James
      • Anthony Binder
        We are planning to publish Septuagint series, and would like to receive any contributions to complete manuscripts of septuagint for editing and publishing.
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 11, 2001
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          We are planning to publish Septuagint series, and would like to receive any
          contributions to complete manuscripts of septuagint for editing and
          publishing. Please forward us any links to or complete manuscripts if you
          have any, include all previous publishing information, and make sure the
          edition is in the public domain.

          Cordially
          Anthony

          Amphia Plc Group
          New markets
          Soderbygardsv 4
          762 96 Rimbo
          Sweden
          +46 175 615 75 phone
          +46 175 615 76 fax
          anthony.binder@...
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